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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 10 of 10. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by lostforwards on November 12, 2004, at 17:59:26
I know they have similar treatments. I don't think all people who are depressed think they're too fat or too skinny. I'd like to know if there is a difference between eating disorders and depression.
Is there something special about an anorexic that makes them see their body as normal? Is the skew in their perception primarily psychological ( as in due to low self-esteem ) or is it a real change in perception of their physical body caused by brain chemistry?
Posted by jujube on November 12, 2004, at 18:18:07
In reply to are eating disorders the same as depression?, posted by lostforwards on November 12, 2004, at 17:59:26
I think that eating disorders can lead to depression and anxiety since a person with an eating disorder is essentially depriving their body of proteins, which contain amino acids like trytophan, etc, and other nutrients. The less a person eats, particularly the less protein-enriched foods, the more they deplete their serontonin and other brain chemicals. And, as a result, the more distorted their body image becomes (e.g., I am 98 pounds, but I am too fat and ugly). That is probably why people with eating disorders are treated with ADs, etc.
Just my two cents.
Tamara
> I know they have similar treatments. I don't think all people who are depressed think they're too fat or too skinny. I'd like to know if there is a difference between eating disorders and depression.
>
> Is there something special about an anorexic that makes them see their body as normal? Is the skew in their perception primarily psychological ( as in due to low self-esteem ) or is it a real change in perception of their physical body caused by brain chemistry?
>
>
Posted by Racer on November 12, 2004, at 20:50:37
In reply to Re: are eating disorders the same as depression? » lostforwards, posted by jujube on November 12, 2004, at 18:18:07
There is new research coming out almost monthly about eating disorders now, especially about genetic predisposition for anorexia. Anything you read today may be contradicted tomorrow, so this is only one opinion on one day, 'K? Don't quote me a year from now...
In my experience, AN has more in common with anxiety disorders than with depression per se. I can't tell you anything about the distortion in the way I view my body, because I *really* don't think that I'm too thin right now, although I am aware that I'm underweight. Yes, I am slim, but not and nowhere near "too thin." Does that make sense? I just plain can't see myself as being all that thin, and certainly not in the "scary" range. At the same time, I can look at other women and say, "Wow, she is MUCH too thin!" {{shrug}} Guess if it made sense, it would be cured in minutes, huh?
The ADs that I've taken have ended the cycle by causing significant weight gain -- generally before the AD effects have kicked in. That's been devastating, because I'm left depressed AND frantic about my weight. This time around, the AD effects have kicked in before the weight gain, so we'll see what happens. So far, I don't have the same frantic need to starve myself, so I'm eating a bit more and certainly a more varied range of foods. At the same time, I'm also aware of a little background noise saying, "eat less, you'll get fat. If you eat this tonight, plan on eating half of what you should tomorrow..." You know? This is an experiment in treating my ED separately from my depression, so I don't know how it will turn out.
At any rate, while they're not the same, and I think EDs have more in common with the anxiety spectrum of disorders, there is some similarity to the treatment, and a sort of family resemblance between them. Hope that helps.
Posted by Racer on November 12, 2004, at 20:58:26
In reply to No, but they are similar in some ways, posted by Racer on November 12, 2004, at 20:50:37
About the distorted body image and self esteem and all that:
My self esteem ain't ever all that bad. Overall, I think rather well of myself: I know that I'm smart, pretty well informed, able to formulate opinions of my own, educable, attractive, and with a personality which can delight people, and certainly makes many shy people much more comfortable. Things that I value, all of them. People I like, respect, and admire think well enough of me to stay my friends, many for decades and counting. And considering the starting point, what I grew up with, even the problems I have now are understandable and I've done very well in fixing or alleviating most of them. What's not to like, right? It's not self esteem per se.
I do think that the starvation has something to do with the distortion, because as jujube said, our brains are being starved of nutrients we need to think properly. I know that at times my whole perception seems a little --- skewed, in some indefinible way. Maybe the distortion of the body image is more physical than purely psychological? Dunno. There is certainly a psychological base for the beginnings, but it is easy for it to grow out of control.
Dunno if any of this helps you understand, but feel free to ask any questions.
Posted by jujube on November 12, 2004, at 21:34:07
In reply to PS, posted by Racer on November 12, 2004, at 20:58:26
I think that eating disorders have a somewhat addictive quality to them. For example, I read that the bingeing and purging associated with bulimia can trigger waves of endorphins, which helps establish the powerful compulsions that bulimics are helpless to fight. And, many anorexics get high on starvation. Apparently anorexia triggers the same kind of powerful high that opiates like heroin give to drug users. Further, it would appear that anorectic starvation, like bulimic bingeing and purging is a traumatic experience that can stimulate a deep survival mechanism; the release of endorphins which allow us to experience pleasure, kill pain and ease stress. So, if the body becomes addicted to these natural opiates and a person resumes normal healthy eating, the body will miss the endorphin highs. Perhaps that's why it is hard for an anorectic or bulimic to break the cycle. Eating or keeping food down, while nourishing to the body and the mind, ultimately causes a crash and great anxiety for an anorectic or bulimic.
Although I was never a full-blown anorectic, I did go through periods of laxitive use to lose weight (gross I know), near (but not complete) starvation for months on end and periods when I did eat minimally, but immediately after eating would work out for 45 minutes to an hour, and I would weight myself up to 10 times a day, so afraid that I would gain a pound. I don't recall ever feeling depressed or anxious during these periods, and remained energetic. I do remember thinking that I could still stand to lose a few pounds, even after my friends nicknamed me SkeleTam.
Posted by jujube on November 12, 2004, at 23:00:54
In reply to PS, posted by Racer on November 12, 2004, at 20:58:26
Racer,
I just wanted to add that, while I think excessive dieting can lead to depression and anxiety because of tryptophan, etc. depletion, that is not to say that just because a person is thin they will experience this. It is possible to be thin and remain thin without starving oneself or bingeing and purging through healthy eating and proper nutrition. I hope this makes sense.
Tamara
Posted by partlycloudy on November 13, 2004, at 12:02:15
In reply to Re: are eating disorders the same as depression? » lostforwards, posted by jujube on November 12, 2004, at 18:18:07
This struck a chord with me as my therapist had pointed out similarities between EDs and alcoholism. I know that when I concentrate on improving my nutrition - eating balanced meals, taking a multivitamin, and taking some supplements, the craving for booze is minimized.
I also agree with Racer that it seems to be more to do with anxiety than with depression, at least in my case.
Posted by B2Chica on November 14, 2004, at 17:44:58
In reply to Re: are eating disorders the same as depression?, posted by partlycloudy on November 13, 2004, at 12:02:15
ok, guess i have ta stick my crazy 2c in too.
for me the ED, tends to be more along the lines of SI and ocd (reminding me of alcoholism-can't stop with one...the urge, the temptation of the act not always the result).
For me i think it's MOSTLY the SI part. i self-injure in many ways. but a while ago i made some pretty bad scars and made S.attempt, since then i've stopped the cutting though the URGES...wow, still there, but i don't cut, but i do take lax instead. though i restrict too. i know if i went back to cutting i would eat more and maybe not use lax as often....dang i need therapy.and sometimes i just want that food OUT of me cuz i don't deserve it.
-well i could go deeper into my neurosis, but....
B2c.
> This struck a chord with me as my therapist had pointed out similarities between EDs and alcoholism. I know that when I concentrate on improving my nutrition - eating balanced meals, taking a multivitamin, and taking some supplements, the craving for booze is minimized.
> I also agree with Racer that it seems to be more to do with anxiety than with depression, at least in my case.
Posted by B2Chica on November 14, 2004, at 19:13:59
In reply to Re: ED as SI ***possible trigger***, posted by B2Chica on November 14, 2004, at 17:44:58
sorry Dr.Bob, i forgot how to redirect threads to other boards. i figure this might be good to go to the psychology board but can remember how to do it.
b2c.
Posted by Dr. Bob on November 15, 2004, at 18:59:31
In reply to Re: redirect--dr.bob?, posted by B2Chica on November 14, 2004, at 19:13:59
> sorry Dr.Bob, i forgot how to redirect threads to other boards.
No problem, see:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#redirect
> i figure this might be good to go to the psychology board
Good idea, here's a link:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/psycho/20041113/msgs/416375.html
Bob
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