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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 19 of 19. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by jlbl2l on November 12, 2004, at 7:08:43
I have been on Lyrica for about 3 months now and have reported previously on its *great* effects for social anxiety, generalized anxiety, neuropathic pain and its powerful sleep and anti-depression effects. It can also have a very GHB and XTC like feeling at the higher doses..
However, after months of use I now must report the down-side to Lyrica for the benefit of anyone wanting to try it.
For comparision, I was on Klonopin for a year for social/generalized anxiety and fibromyglia.
Klonopin was so great, that year was the best ever, but i had to escilate the dose so much I got up to 15 MG of Klonopin. It basically stopped working, and I tapered slowly over a month to get off of it. Well, it appears that didnt work, and I had my first and only grand-mal seizure at work about 3 weeks after I was off of it. I almost died...
Back to Lyrica -
Comparing Lyrica to Klonopin Or Xanax is very difficult, because Lyrica makes your "brain" and "mood" feel different. For me, The benzodizpines make me a little tired, very open and easy to communicate with people without the anxiety. With Lyrica, it is much different feeling. It feels more like (for me) at the higher doses (which only work for anxiety by the way 600mg or more) it feels stimulating, like i want to talk to people and seek out people, and have less anxiety, however, it doesn't "HIT" you like a benzo would if you know what I mean. It takes about and hour or so to kick in, and it lasts ALL DAY (I am serious about that!)
Lyrica has strange mood altering feeling, errily similar to exctasy for me at least (at the higher doses (600mg+) I have a strong feeling that Lyrica releases serotonin or dopamine at the higher dose, becuase I have done a lot of drugs and that feeling is very familar.
However, Lyrica has highly unique effects (good and bad)
Recently, I have come to the conclusion that Lyrica has tolerance issues. I have had to increase the dose several times now to get the desired effect.
For comparision with its presdecessor, Neurontin, if i build tolerance to Neurontin (which I had in the past) all I had to do is wait a month or so and then the tolerance to it vanished. So it may be temporary for these 2 medicines.
The side effects of Lyrica : plain and simple -
1)pressure headache (it goes away, i promise)
2)tiredness at the lower doses, at higher, it stimulates
3)dizziness (if you NEVER have done Neurontin or Lyrica, you will feel very drunk at first, but as you continue this will pass)
4)Weight Gain - this is a serious effect that I have noticed. You must monitor your food intake, which I am to avoid this effect. This is one of the most annoying side effects.
5)glazed eyes or blurry vision - similar to benzo glazed, reddened eyes when on it, nothing major...
6)depersonaliztion - This is where at the high dose you (or me at least) feel like I am on Extascy or GHB. It is a pleasnt euphoric feeling.
7) brain fog / concentration / forgetfullness/ feeling dumb - This has not happened to me at the higher dose that is stimulating, i would imagine the dopamine and serotonin compensates perhaps. But yes, the aformentioned things can occur, mostly brain fog.
8) driving - driving on standard low doses or once you get use to the medicine is OKAY. It is not okay to drive if you are expriecing side effects in the aforeentoned #7 or you are staggering or any other "werid" effects on the medicine. Please do not drive unless you get used to the medicine. It took me some time to stabalize. It is similar to a benzo/driving situation.
9)edema - havent noticed water gain anwhere in my body yet, not a big worry.
The biggest issue for me with Lyrica is - tolerance ( I am now above the max dose of 600mg, I am at 1200) and weight gain (witch i have under control by eating carefully..)
Otherwise, lyrica, compared to SSRI's, Klonopin and Xanax is much better in that its side effects are not too bad for me, its not controlled substance, it acts as a POTENT anti-depressant, and incredibly superior sleep medicine (combine with 1 xanax and youll sleep so good you wont believe it - stage 3/4 deep sleep im talking about - check pubmed for that study on Lyrica/neurontin)
Also, if you have pain ANYWHERE in your body, a combination of Lyrica (or just Lyrica alone even) and Naproxen (Aleve) (again check pubmed for this study on that combo) will make any pain in your body disapper - even if you dont know about it - and this helps you and your body function better and hopefully be less depressed because of positive endorphins.
Whew. long typing! I am on lyrica now and I can tell you it really makes you feel great and in my opinion should be a scheduled drug (at the high doses at least)
For anyone that wonders how I got Lyrica - I do live in the USA and Lyrica was imported from the UK with a script and permission from my doctor from a pharmacy. It should be on the schelves in the USA probably by Jan 2005, or until they fix whatever problem with the generalized anxiety disorder study they had so it can be "approvable"
Any questions, just post a reply here. If you want to personally contact me for ANY reason, my email is jlbl2l@gmail.com - please dont use babblemail, just email me normally, thanks!
All the best,
JLBl2l
Posted by Glydin on November 12, 2004, at 9:02:20
In reply to Lyrica (pregabalin) very comprehensive review etc., posted by jlbl2l on November 12, 2004, at 7:08:43
I really appreciate your honesty in your reporting. Truthfully, I remember how pumped you were over thinking of starting it, I feared you might be reluctant to report anything untoward ---I'm sorry for thinking that of you as you have been very honest in your assessment.
I'm good on my benzo, but it is nice to think there are options out there and who knows how the future will go? Your info on this has been very informative.
I wish you continued luck and success.
Posted by jlbl2l on November 12, 2004, at 9:16:38
In reply to Lyrica (pregabalin) very comprehensive review etc., posted by jlbl2l on November 12, 2004, at 7:08:43
Other things I should mention about Lyrica :
- it doesn't quite feel like a benzo, i cannot compare it to any medication i have taken except neurontin, but is so very superior to neurontin.
-it takes effect within an hour, it is not rapidly acting such as xanax
-depending on dosing ( i take 600mg or more all at once in the morning) , it lasts ALL day long and feels great to get home from work and have a good nights sleep
-lyrica appears to be as effective as a benzo in halting stimulant comedowns. must be a high dose though
-if you didnt know, theeis a study comparing lyrica to effexor and xanax for generalized anxiety. Lyrica was superior to effexor and equal to Xanax for GAD in this study.(search the web)
-lyrica + naproxen (Aleve) is the ultimate pain medicine (especially neuropathic) but also anti-inflmmatory combination. check pubmed.com for the studies on this combination.
-lyrica has very unique and strange mood altering effects, which can affect some people negatively or positively. I have been effected VERY positively (mood-outlook-etc)I hope this can apply to others, but remember the dose matters a lot. This could be useful for Bipolar and other disorders as Neurontin was somewhat effective...
-dosing is SO VERY important. My regiman as stated before was 600mg (two 300mg caps)in the morning before, during, or after breakfast or snack. Lyrica can be taken with or without food, but i notice if i have a small sugary snack it seems to kick in quicker. Spreading out the dose during the day is probably what most doctors will want. This may work, but from my experience it doesn't help as much, it seems larger doses at once work better and last longer. My doctor is impressed with my improvement as I come into his office smiling and in a great mood being the socialite!
-the question a lot of people ask is compared to Klonopin or Xanax (etc) which I had been on (Klonopin for a year with success, until seizure) does Lyrica just "supress" the anxiety like Kpins or Xanax or is it Pro-social also?
The answer is yes and no. For me, YES! Its the dose that matters, because it seems the higher dosage 600mg+ based on my pharmacology knowlodge it must act as a mild stimulant in a unique way perhaps through serotonin (neurontin is known to release serotonin in the bloodstream -pubmed.com)
or perhaps even dopamine is involved. Since gaba and dopamine balance each other out, I think dopamine is involved (at higher doses). So in conclusion on this, my answer is at lower doses of Lyrica (meaning below 200mg) I do not think there is much benefit for "pro-social". Once we get to 200-600-and preferably a bit more (as neurontin is prescribed off label in higher doses than is recomended) then the prosocial effects become very active.... At 1200mg which I am at now, I feel extrememly great and want to type, talk, touch (lol) and do anything with strangers - my pro-socialness is basically unbelivable. So, high dose (600+) will give pro-social + anti-anxiety (for me) and stimulation , whereas the lower doses (and this all depends on your own chemistry i remind you) give just anti-anxiety which could be considered even less effective than a benzodizpine if the dose is low (50mg , 100mg once a day or something would be useless in my opinion)-Lyrica is basically super Neurontin, with a few tweaks that makes it a mixed feeling between XTC and GHB (high doses) and some standard benzo like sedation and such. It does not feel like a benzo, so dont expect that. The first time I tried it, I got a "pressure headache". This is a normal side effect that WILL GO AWAY. It isnt painful, it just feel "werid", like your brain is re-wiring itself. I also felt very "drunkish" the first time, similar to a benzo drunk, but more stimulation.
Once again my email is jlbl2l@gmail.com for any questions.
All the best,
JLBl2l
Posted by jlbl2l on November 12, 2004, at 10:43:27
In reply to Re: Lyrica very comprehensive review ADDENDEM, posted by jlbl2l on November 12, 2004, at 9:16:38
the other thing i forgot to mention is one side effect which is sort of funny in my opinion, is a slight tremor (only at higher doses). You hands and extremities are a little "shaky". NOT like stimulant shaky, but more like, a good euphoric tremor LOL. Its just werid. It is not common , only started happening to me when i went around 600mg and over. It isnt noticable to other people, it is just a little silly (cant think of any other way to describe). It is controlable. Like my hand my jerk for a second and i just move it and stop it. I guess thats a mild tremor.
The benifits for me outweight the negatives. The 2 most negative things is the tolerance and the weight gain!
jlbl2l
Posted by jclint on November 12, 2004, at 10:50:38
In reply to Re: Lyrica very comprehensive review ADDENDEM, posted by jlbl2l on November 12, 2004, at 9:16:38
I really aprpeciate this. I've been very interested in this drug for a long time, and your advice is extremely helpful. It certainly sounds promising so far - the only issues I have are the tolerance you mentioned, and the XTC like feeling... I'm not sure I'd want to be too far above normal people's mood, although its nice to have the choice for change :) But like you said, that was only in the high dosages.
Hmm I am very intrigued as how this works out for you. I might email you if I think there's a poss of me getting some from my pdoc. Keep us up to date on how everything's going, wont you?
John :)
Posted by Rhapsody on November 12, 2004, at 12:02:44
In reply to Lyrica (pregabalin) very comprehensive review etc., posted by jlbl2l on November 12, 2004, at 7:08:43
Hi JLBl2l,
Wow! Thank you for your informative post about Lyrica.
Are you taking any other medications other than Lyrica?
Please tell me what your typical pain level (1-10) was before Lyrica and now presently when taking Lyrica. I’m curious about how much pain reduction it gave you.
Posted by jlbl2l on November 12, 2004, at 12:42:24
In reply to Re: Lyrica (pregabalin) very comprehensive review etc., posted by Rhapsody on November 12, 2004, at 12:02:44
Hi Rhapsody!
I would save my pain level was about 6.5 and higher sometimes during flares of fibro/cfs.
Since Lyrica, my pain has dropped to near 0 literally. Perhaps 1 or 2 during a flare, but nothing major.
I think the thing with Lyrica is that it inhibits substance P - which is high in fibro patients but also in areas of pain. Its a great feeling on Lyrica, and i like how it lasts for the whole day with my 600mg dose all at once. (Well I have upped it to 1200 now cause of tolerance). I think Lyrica will be similar to Neurontin in that the dose can be escalated and still be safe, I have had no ill effects and have had several blood, urine and MRI/CAT scans done while on it for other stuff, all normal!
But just because it works for me, doesn't mean it will for anyone else. The key to Lyrica is high dose. 600 or above is minimum for me.
JLBl2l
Posted by TheOutsider on November 12, 2004, at 12:49:56
In reply to Re: Lyrica (pregabalin) very comprehensive review etc. » Rhapsody, posted by jlbl2l on November 12, 2004, at 12:42:24
Thanks for the consistent high quality information you have given use about your experience with Pregabalin.
I know your good experience does not garantee that I will have the same response, but it is encouraging.
I'm desperate to find a drug that will work for my social anxiety, I need to find a doctor who will prescribe Pregabalin!
Posted by banga on November 12, 2004, at 17:19:21
In reply to Thanks for review jlb121!, posted by TheOutsider on November 12, 2004, at 12:49:56
Hi,
Wondering about the weight gain SE--how big a problem is it? Does it seem to be more increased appetite or a metabolic change? Did it seem to be dose-dependent?
thanks!
Posted by jlbl2l on November 12, 2004, at 17:49:52
In reply to Re: Lyrica weight gain-how much?, posted by banga on November 12, 2004, at 17:19:21
It appears to be dose dependent (the higher the dose, the more weight gain) but it seems to be based only on your own eating habits. Lyrica seems to make you want to eat more and you dont realize it, which is what it did to me. I do not believe it is metabolic.
Just focus and remember to eat healthy portions and control the cravings and i have observed a decrease in weight doing this.
JLBl2l
Posted by Rhapsody on November 12, 2004, at 18:04:54
In reply to Re: Lyrica (pregabalin) very comprehensive review etc. » Rhapsody, posted by jlbl2l on November 12, 2004, at 12:42:24
JLB121,
Your pain improvement on Lyrica is awesome!
Are you taking any other medications?
Posted by ravenstorm on November 12, 2004, at 18:13:05
In reply to Re: Lyrica (pregabalin) very comprehensive review etc., posted by Rhapsody on November 12, 2004, at 18:04:54
Did Neurontin make you tired? I could not take it because of severe sedation. Did you find that Lyrica was less sedating than neurontin? Or was neurontin activating for you as well?
Posted by jlbl2l on November 12, 2004, at 19:17:33
In reply to Re: Lyrica (pregabalin) very comprehensive review etc., posted by Rhapsody on November 12, 2004, at 18:04:54
I am not taking any other medications currently, nope! I occasionaly take a Xanax though.
Posted by pseudonym on November 12, 2004, at 19:21:39
In reply to Re: Lyrica very comprehensive review ADDENDEM, posted by jlbl2l on November 12, 2004, at 9:16:38
To anyone else taking pregablin (Lyrica), please add your experiences to the board. It would appear that we have one person on the planet (jlbl2l) who is reporting their experiences and I would like to hear others as well. And jlbl2l, thank you for your reports.
Posted by jlbl2l on November 12, 2004, at 19:25:09
In reply to Re: Lyrica (pregabalin) very comprehensive review etc., posted by ravenstorm on November 12, 2004, at 18:13:05
Neurontin did make me a little "out of it" at high doses, but it also had similar benefits to Lyrica..If i wanted to sleep on Neurontin, I could. Similar with Lyrica, but high dose Lyrica is very stimulating. I have a feeling it releases dopamine.
Lyrica can be sedating at low dosages, but for me once I approach 600mg taken all at once, or more than 600mg, it is very stimulating, proably releasing norep, serotonin, or dopamine...
Basically, whatever your doctor prescribes, make sure you take 600mg all at once (taper up first for a few days though) and continue up from 600mg to 1200 or so. For me, it is stimulating and sedating.
It really depends on the dose, and your current state of body/mind and your own chemistry of course.
If you liked Neurontin, you will love Lyrica.
If you didn't like Neurontin, you should try higher dose Lyrica for awhile because it IS a different drug and different feeling and may work for you...JLBl2l
Posted by jlbl2l on November 12, 2004, at 19:31:46
In reply to Lyrica (pregabalin) Reports other than jlbl2l?, posted by pseudonym on November 12, 2004, at 19:21:39
Scroll down this page :
http://www.remedyfind.com/rem.asp?ID=7887
also search google groups in fibromyglia
Posted by Toothy on September 9, 2007, at 20:53:53
In reply to Re: Lyrica (pregabalin) Reports other than jlbl2l? » pseudonym, posted by jlbl2l on November 12, 2004, at 19:31:46
> Scroll down this page :
>
> http://www.remedyfind.com/rem.asp?ID=7887
>
> also search google groups in fibromyglia
>
> JBL,Do you still use Lyrica and if so what dosage. Has it remained effective for you with time. Inquiring minds want to know. Have you been able to reduce any benzo meds as well?
Toothy
Posted by rina on September 11, 2007, at 17:07:18
In reply to Re: Lyrica (pregabalin) Reports other than jlbl2l?, posted by Toothy on September 9, 2007, at 20:53:53
Hi,
I found a little bit of information that might be helpful. If not, sorry for rambling. Good Luck from one psychobabbler to another...lolCLINICAL STUDIES WITH LYRICA (PREGABALIN) IN NEUROPATHIC PAIN AND ANXIETY DISORDER
Data from a series of phase II and III placebo-controlled clinical studies in over 1,200 patients with generalised anxiety disorder suggest that Lyrica (pregabalin) will be effective for this disabling disorder. In comparison with venlafaxine, pregabalin provided more rapid relief of psychic and somatic symptoms.
In comparison with alprazolam (a benzodiazepine), Lyrica (pregabalin) appeared equally effective in reducing somatic symptoms. Overall, these findings show that Lyrica (pregabalin) combines the benefits of both antidepressants and benzodiazepines. It appears at least as rapid as benzodiazepines against somatic symptoms, while providing more rapid control of psychic symptoms than antidepressants.
MARKETING COMMENTARY
Once generic manufacture of gabapentin is approved, sales of Pfizer's Neurontin are likely to fall dramatically. Encouraging physicians to switch patients from Neurontin to Lyrica (pregabalin), if approved, will be an important strategy in minimising the impact of generic competition.
Lyrica (pregabalin) is as effective as Neurontin, but at lower doses, which translates to fewer side effects. Thus, it is well placed to capture Neurontin's market share. Through the successful launch of follow-on products, Pfizer has maintained leadership in other CNS areas, such as the market for antidepressants.
http://www.drugdevelopment-technology.com/projects/pregabalin/Pregabalin (Lyrica) Helped Anxiety:
In a 4-week DB PC study of 276 adults with generalized anxiety disorder, pregabalin (150 mg/day or 600 mg/day), lorazepam (6 mg/day), or placebo. Fewer patients given lorazepam (59%) completed the trial than placebo (73%), 600 mg/day of pregabalin (71%), or 150 mg/day of pregabalin (90%).
Hamilton anxiety scores decreased 9.2 with150 mg/day of pregabalin, 10.3 with 600 mg/day of pregabalin and 12.0 with lorazepam vs. 6.8 for placebo. There were no serious adverse events reported by patients given pregabalin, and no withdrawal syndrome was associated with pregabalin treatment. Pregabalin in generalized anxiety disorder: a placebo-controlled trial by Pande AC, Crockatt JG, et al. Am J Psychiatry 2003 Mar;160(3):533-40. Ed: Pfizer is developing this new medication.
Posted by Fondafilm on February 6, 2013, at 10:09:35
In reply to Re: Lyrica (pregabalin) very comprehensive review etc. » ravenstorm, posted by jlbl2l on November 12, 2004, at 19:25:09
I am amazed that one could tolerate high doses of it. I took 200mg for 4 months and the pain and swelling in my joints was intolerable. That said, I titrated off very gradually and became very depressed and my osteoarthritis was so painful I would cry at times. Plus, I could not sleep more than a few hours a night. Not knowing what to do I started up on Lyrica at 25mg in the evening. My depression lifted almost immediately and the OA was almost painless. I have noticed that some mornings I awaken with pretty intense pain and stiffness and on those days I take 25mg in the morning and 25mg that evening and am good to go for another few days. I can only conclude for now that this is a good way for me to proceed until I learn otherwise. I also take 2mg Lorazepam and 1.5 mg Ropinerole at night for restless leg. Thanks for the post. PS I am a PTSD thriver.
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