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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 734 to 758 of 1838. Go back in thread:
Posted by Dr. Bob on October 8, 2004, at 17:41:23
In reply to Re: I don't know if it will work, posted by bridgey1128 on October 8, 2004, at 14:26:25
> Happy Thanksgiving? Was I asleep for 2 months?
Sorry to interrupt, but I'd like to redirect follow-ups not about medication to Psycho-Babble Social. Here's a link:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20041001/msgs/400517.html
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by bridgey1128 on October 8, 2004, at 21:05:52
In reply to Redirect: Thanksgiving, posted by Dr. Bob on October 8, 2004, at 17:41:23
Sorry..didn't meant to miff anyone...Oh turkey has triptophan in it..is that medication enough :) Chocolate also has it, as well as milk(so that means ice cream!) and bananas...it produces a feel good relaxed feeling. Hmmm maybe we should ditch our medications and EAT BANANA SPLITS WITH CHOCOLATE SYRUP!!!! WOO HOO!! Hmmm then again..there's the weight gain...I guess I'll have to stick to my Topomax after all :)
Posted by stressed on October 8, 2004, at 22:54:27
In reply to Re: Redirect: Thanksgiving, posted by bridgey1128 on October 8, 2004, at 21:05:52
Maybe I don't understand how to use this board, because that last post went right by me. Did I miss something that was meant for me? -L
Posted by bridgey1128 on October 9, 2004, at 16:14:26
In reply to Re: Redirect: Thanksgiving » bridgey1128, posted by stressed on October 8, 2004, at 22:54:27
No, I asked about Thanksgiving and apparently we aren't supposed to talk about anything not pertaining to medicine so we were redirected to a social page. That is what that was about.
Posted by stressed on October 9, 2004, at 20:11:36
In reply to Re: Redirect: Thanksgiving, posted by bridgey1128 on October 9, 2004, at 16:14:26
Oops!! I really don't know the proper conduct here. I guess I will have to flip on over to the social page, and leave you a message there. Live and Learn. -L
Posted by headachequeen on October 10, 2004, at 17:56:47
In reply to Re: Redirect: Thanksgiving, posted by bridgey1128 on October 8, 2004, at 21:05:52
> Sorry..didn't meant to miff anyone...Oh turkey has triptophan in it..is that medication enough :) Chocolate also has it, as well as milk(so that means ice cream!) and bananas...it produces a feel good relaxed feeling. Hmmm maybe we should ditch our medications and EAT BANANA SPLITS WITH CHOCOLATE SYRUP!!!! WOO HOO!! Hmmm then again..there's the weight gain...I guess I'll have to stick to my Topomax after all :)
I didn't know that bananas and milk have trptophan in them...
dear heavenly day the things I learn here...
chocolate and turkey skin are lethal to dogs because of tripto... and milk is not a good thing to give them because it causes diarrhoea.... but bananas.... I often include them in their food...
never again...
thanks Bridgey... you have probably saved me acres of depression....
and my vocal cords really can't take any more ....
kat
Posted by bridgey1128 on October 10, 2004, at 18:32:45
In reply to Re: Redirect: Thanksgiving » bridgey1128, posted by headachequeen on October 10, 2004, at 17:56:47
I didn't know that chocolate had triptophan in it until I looked it up. Your dogs like bananas? I don't think my vocal chords can take much more. This weekend we had a choral festival and I had to..well I VOLUNTEERED to hit a high D. WEE! Don't get to do that well..ever! So I did. That was a lot of singing in two days. I am starting to have weird weird dreams again so I am thinking it's time to move up on my Topomax again. That and I am starting to be edgy and hyper again. Wee! Next come the hallucinations. Have any of you who have been taking Topomax for quite some time noticed your hair getting darker? Just since I have been taking it my hair has darkened considerably. It's very odd. I don't know if it's an age thing or what. All these years and suddenly my hair gets darker at 27 1/2. That seems kinda strange when it hasn't changed colors in years. I dunno. I was just wondering if anyone else had noticed that. Then again, I have weird side effects that no else else seems to have either...just wondering!
Posted by stressed on October 10, 2004, at 19:14:32
In reply to chocolate meds, posted by bridgey1128 on October 10, 2004, at 18:32:45
It may be the age thing, because I'm not on Topomax, and my hair is getting darker and darker. I will have to watch M's hair for the darkening effect. She is not really having many side-effects, and I hope that means she won't have trouble addapting to it. I can't decide if it is making her moods more leveled out at all. She is a MOODY girl, (like me)and we haven't had any "Freak Outs" for several weeks. Is it suppose to help that type of behavior? She says it still makes her hungry. I'm wondering if she would be hungry anyway. She's really trying to eat healthfully these days, and it helps the rest of us eat that way also. So who is the one with the dogs? I am an avid animal lover and have a Corgi, which I adopted from the Animal Rescue. (He at an entire pan of brownies, and was sick for an entire day----all over my great room.) Chocolate does make the deathly sick. If they eat too much, you must induce vomiting. Have done that also with another pet.....lovely time. Love dogs, but can't have many because of our location. (and husband) Thanks for the therapy!!!-L
Posted by bridgey1128 on October 10, 2004, at 19:47:01
In reply to Re: chocolate meds, posted by stressed on October 10, 2004, at 19:14:32
It shouldn't MAKE her hungry. But her dosage probably isn't high enough to take away her appetite. It affects everyone differently. Has she ever been tested for bipolar? I was "moody" as a teenager too and prone to bouts of depression. What I didn't know was that my talkativeness and irritation was my "mania". It's called hypomania. It's not as severe as what we think as manic depression. I have more bouts of depression but less so now. The topomax helps even my irritability out although I must say it does nothing for monthly moodiness. That is a hormonal thing, not a bipolar thing. I have noticed it does not help with PMS. Looking back, I had a lot of ups and downs that were not just merely "moodiness" of a teenage girl. I wish that I had known then what I do now. I could have sought help years ago and spared friends and family years of dealing with me :P Maybe that is an avenue to pursue. Maybe it is just teenage moodiness. I just wish that I had known the symptoms when I was in high school. If you want, go check out some sites on bipolar. Just put in bipolar in your browser. There is a wealth of info out there.
Posted by stressed on October 10, 2004, at 19:58:55
In reply to Re: chocolate meds, posted by bridgey1128 on October 10, 2004, at 19:47:01
Thanks, I will check out some of the sights, and also talk a little more with her Therapist about this. Geeezzz, maybe I'm more like that than she is. -L
Posted by headachequeen on October 11, 2004, at 10:21:45
In reply to Re: chocolate meds, posted by stressed on October 10, 2004, at 19:14:32
> It may be the age thing, because I'm not on Topomax, and my hair is getting darker and darker. I will have to watch M's hair for the darkening effect. She is not really having many side-effects, and I hope that means she won't have trouble addapting to it. I can't decide if it is making her moods more leveled out at all. She is a MOODY girl, (like me)and we haven't had any "Freak Outs" for several weeks. Is it suppose to help that type of behavior? She says it still makes her hungry. I'm wondering if she would be hungry anyway. She's really trying to eat healthfully these days, and it helps the rest of us eat that way also. So who is the one with the dogs? I am an avid animal lover and have a Corgi, which I adopted from the Animal Rescue. (He at an entire pan of brownies, and was sick for an entire day----all over my great room.) Chocolate does make the deathly sick.
Actually chocolate can kill them...although I think it has to be baking chocolate.. a friend who raises and shows german shorthaired pointers lost an incredibly great one... almost a year old... had just cleaned up at one of the top shows for her group against older more experienced dogs... ate a Belgian chocolate bar and her heart exploded when she saw a cat and started barking...
the same chemical is in turkey skin I knew but I did not know it is in milk or bananas and I often throw bananas into the dogs' veg and fruit mix...I also learned the hard way that turkey is not as lean as I thought when I was in my let's get thin mode as it caused pancreatitis in one of my dogs... learned it is high in fats and sodium then...
the things I learn about health through them...
as for the still hungry and eating...
one can be hungry but not want to eat the same junk stuff.. hard to understand but I found that I wanted to eat other foods than the junk that I had been drawn to before Topomax...
as for the hair darkening... mine used to be such a dark red and has been lightening... and breaking my heart; nothing to do with topomax... it is age but thank heaven it is not going that horrible peroxide yellow shade red hair so often goes...
yetI have heard many people say that topomax has a calming effect too, stressed so it may be helping there too along with the therapy...
kat
Posted by Larry Hoover on October 11, 2004, at 10:52:32
In reply to Re: chocolate meds » stressed, posted by headachequeen on October 11, 2004, at 10:21:45
> Actually chocolate can kill them...although I think it has to be baking chocolate.. a friend who raises and shows german shorthaired pointers lost an incredibly great one... almost a year old... had just cleaned up at one of the top shows for her group against older more experienced dogs... ate a Belgian chocolate bar and her heart exploded when she saw a cat and started barking...
> the same chemical is in turkey skin I knew but I did not know it is in milk or bananas and I often throw bananas into the dogs' veg and fruit mix...<timidly entering the discussion>
The toxic compound in chocolate is theobromine. There really aren't any other common sources for this alkaloid. The Latin name for the chocolate plant is Theobroma cacao. Theobromine is "the alkaloid in chocolate". The links below give some detailed information. On an ounce per ounce basis, baker's chocolate is about ten times more toxic (for dogs) than milk chocolate. Theobromine is a stimulant in humans.
http://www.talktothevet.com/ARTICLES/DOGS/chocolatetoxic.HTM
http://www.dogs4sale.com.au/Health_Nutrition.htm
Turkey skin *may* induce pancreatitis in some dogs. It's far from being the only trigger, and different breeds have very different susceptibility to it. Ham is probably worse than any food. Not just turkey skin.
http://www.vetinfo4dogs.com/dpancrea.html
Milk and bananas are not contraindicated for dogs to eat.
http://www.kavishi.freeserve.co.uk/poisonplants.htm
> I also learned the hard way that turkey is not as lean as I thought when I was in my let's get thin mode as it caused pancreatitis in one of my dogs... learned it is high in fats and sodium then...Lar
Posted by stressed on October 11, 2004, at 12:37:17
In reply to Re: chocolate, etc. and dogs » headachequeen, posted by Larry Hoover on October 11, 2004, at 10:52:32
Here's one for you, my dog is on clomipramine/Calmiclam for anxiety and OCD (licking people uncontrollably, spinning, barking) and am wondering if any or you are familiar with it? He is just like the rest of us here, fobias, and whatnot. It does not seem to be working all that well, and our vet is looking into something else. It needs to be approved for animals, because we don't have insurance for our dog!!! -L
Posted by headachequeen on October 11, 2004, at 12:49:26
In reply to Re: chocolate, etc. and dogs » headachequeen, posted by Larry Hoover on October 11, 2004, at 10:52:32
> <timidly entering the discussion>
>
Lar,
NEVER be timid to join us and THAT IS AN ORDER
not a suggestion...
we need your input in our mutual therapy group...
ask anyone...
it is amazing how much help we find from the input from each of the people who jumps bravely in with his or her ideas and thoughts and help...
sometimes it seems off topic to Dr Bob but is amazing how comforting or thought provoking it can be... and how it can lead us to some sort of idea based self-help...
trust me, I know... I have found out so often...theobromine is the word I was looking for earlier... these wretched seizures have wiped out part of my memory, that which is responsible for vocabulary... once I regain a word it stays thank goodness...
wish that topomax could do that for me...
The other though can have damaging effects... and the theobromine has been found in the skin of the turkey... I think that is why it is called turkey and why it is hard to fly with eagles when one works with turkeys..meanwhile tomorrow is D-Day 2004.. as in new Doctor Day...
cross your fingers for me folks... that this new neurologist can get to the source of the problem and not just solve the headaches...
I do know that he is not taking away my topomax...
I guarantee him one massive temper tantrum if he even suggests it LOL
kat
Posted by Larry Hoover on October 11, 2004, at 13:10:34
In reply to Re: chocolate, etc. and dogs » Larry Hoover, posted by headachequeen on October 11, 2004, at 12:49:26
>
> > <timidly entering the discussion>
> >
> Lar,
> NEVER be timid to join us and THAT IS AN ORDER
> not a suggestion...I wasn't part of what was being talked about....
> The other though can have damaging effects... and the theobromine has been found in the skin of the turkey... I think that is why it is called turkey and why it is hard to fly with eagles when one works with turkeys..
Was that a funny?
I'm thinking very literally when I say there are no xanthine alkaloids in turkey or turkey skin (unless the bird was fed them just before its demise).
Lar
Posted by headachequeen on October 11, 2004, at 13:21:42
In reply to Re: chocolate, etc. and dogs » headachequeen, posted by Larry Hoover on October 11, 2004, at 13:10:34
> >
> > > <timidly entering the discussion>
> > >
> > Lar,
> > NEVER be timid to join us and THAT IS AN ORDER
> > not a suggestion...
>
> I wasn't part of what was being talked about....
>
> > The other though can have damaging effects... and the theobromine has been found in the skin of the turkey... I think that is why it is called turkey and why it is hard to fly with eagles when one works with turkeys..
>
> Was that a funny?
>
> I'm thinking very literally when I say there are no xanthine alkaloids in turkey or turkey skin (unless the bird was fed them just before its demise).
>
> Lar
Lar if we all wait until we are part of what is being talked about, we are never going to learn from the others in this group and believe me we need the help of all of this group... at least I know I do... and I think Stressed and Bridgey and a number of others would agree...
support needed here <g>as a long time breeder and exhibitor and nutrition researcher and leaner-the-hard-way, I have learned that turkey skin is lethal...
as for the fly with eagles work with turkeys.. it was a funny and a serious mixed... been one of those week...
and welcome to the discussion part of the group...
we are so glad to hear from you....
must mention this new info to Ian and my other vets...
because I have felt so guilty about the turkey skin tidbits I have popped to my 'kids' over the years and I have enough psych problems without the added guilt...
kat
Posted by Larry Hoover on October 11, 2004, at 13:25:14
In reply to Re:dogs and Clomipramine/Calmiclam, posted by stressed on October 11, 2004, at 12:37:17
> Here's one for you, my dog is on clomipramine/Calmiclam for anxiety and OCD (licking people uncontrollably, spinning, barking) and am wondering if any or you are familiar with it? He is just like the rest of us here, fobias, and whatnot. It does not seem to be working all that well, and our vet is looking into something else. It needs to be approved for animals, because we don't have insurance for our dog!!! -L
As far as approval in dogs go, only two drugs are approved for canine use: Clomicalm (clomipramine) and Anipryl (selegeline). That said, other drugs are fairly commonly used, like Prozac, Ativan, and so on.
http://www.dermapet.com/articles/art-18.html
For example, I've seen really inexpensive veterinary fluoxetine (generic prozac) at:
http://www.lambriarvet.com/Prescription-F.htm
100 X 10 mg caps for $6.50 is a pretty good deal.
Lar
Posted by headachequeen on October 11, 2004, at 13:28:13
In reply to Re:dogs and Clomipramine/Calmiclam » stressed, posted by Larry Hoover on October 11, 2004, at 13:25:14
> > Here's one for you, my dog is on clomipramine/Calmiclam for anxiety and OCD (licking people uncontrollably, spinning, barking) and am wondering if any or you are familiar with it? He is just like the rest of us here, fobias, and whatnot. It does not seem to be working all that well, and our vet is looking into something else. It needs to be approved for animals, because we don't have insurance for our dog!!! -L
>
> As far as approval in dogs go, only two drugs are approved for canine use: Clomicalm (clomipramine) and Anipryl (selegeline). That said, other drugs are fairly commonly used, like Prozac, Ativan, and so on.
>
> http://www.dermapet.com/articles/art-18.html
>
> For example, I've seen really inexpensive veterinary fluoxetine (generic prozac) at:
>
> http://www.lambriarvet.com/Prescription-F.htm
>
> 100 X 10 mg caps for $6.50 is a pretty good deal.
>
> LarAlso for what it's worth Prozan seems to have the same negative effects on dogs as on people and the same bad press ....
kat
Posted by stressed on October 11, 2004, at 13:31:44
In reply to Re:dogs and Clomipramine/Calmiclam » stressed, posted by Larry Hoover on October 11, 2004, at 13:25:14
I agree with Kat, PLEASE enter our discussion. We're all here to help one another, and heavens knows several people on here keep me going. The experiences and advice from everyone here keeps me sane. Thanks very much for the web sites, do you know anything about giving dogs generic prozac? I don't think my vet does, and I wouldn't know how much to give him. He's my baby.....the king of the house. Can't have anything happen to him. Lost a dog three years ago (14), and cannot go through that again for a lonnnngggg time. -L
Posted by Larry Hoover on October 11, 2004, at 13:43:01
In reply to Re:dogs and Clomipramine/Calmiclam » Larry Hoover, posted by stressed on October 11, 2004, at 13:31:44
> I agree with Kat, PLEASE enter our discussion. We're all here to help one another, and heavens knows several people on here keep me going. The experiences and advice from everyone here keeps me sane. Thanks very much for the web sites, do you know anything about giving dogs generic prozac? I don't think my vet does, and I wouldn't know how much to give him. He's my baby.....the king of the house. Can't have anything happen to him. Lost a dog three years ago (14), and cannot go through that again for a lonnnngggg time. -L
The first article I linked to, when I mentioned Prozac, discusses the whole thing, and in the context of licking spinning behaviour. Yes, there are risks from Prozac, the same as you might have. Of course, a dog cannot vocalize just what he's experiencing, but I'm sure he'd be more comfortable if his compulsive behaviour was curtailed. The same "long half-life makes for easier withdrawal" thing that applies to humans applies to dogs, so if you were planning to try an SSRI, prozac is probably your first choice.Lar
Posted by headachequeen on October 11, 2004, at 13:53:28
In reply to Re:dogs and Clomipramine/Calmiclam » Larry Hoover, posted by stressed on October 11, 2004, at 13:31:44
> I agree with Kat, PLEASE enter our discussion. We're all here to help one another, and heavens knows several people on here keep me going.
Oh, Stressed, you were meant to be here ... and I don't know whether to add a smile, a bitter grin or simply to frown...
as I mentioned earlier I breed dogs... I show them, I train them for other people, actually I train people to better work with their dogs and to understand them; I do agility and tracking with my dogs, and I simply enjoy life because my dogs are in it.
To anyone observing me from moment to moment or day to day I am the most self-controlled strong-willed assertive whatever individual ever.. and that could not be further from the truth...
I never do anything unless I can do it better than anyone else... if there is a possibility that I can not do it well or will look foolish or be laughed at, forget it. I will not risk it. I cannot stand to fail... or even appear to fail, even in my own mind.
My psychologist was amazed and thrilled to bits when my husband talked me into trying to learn to shoot pool.. even more excited when I decided I liked the game... this is something at which I am not the best... and when I am in a cycle of depression or seizures I am not even close to being the worst, but still it is an obsession.
He saw this as a huge break-through for me and thought this was such a major step forward...
having to be the best at whatever I do is such an obsession...
if I can't be the best I do not do it... and that is that. As a result people see only the strong side of me. they do not see the weak parts ... of which there are so many... you people see the weak parts all the time and help to shore up the weaknesses so often...
if only you knew how often..
but that would be to let someone know that I am not the strong successful person I pretend to be...
in this place I have learned more about allowing myself to learn than I have learned from my shrink...
so Lar, we do need your input... we need everyone's input.. it is how we grow...
and you will be surprised how you grow too... trust me... I figured it out...as for losing a dog, Stressed... oh it is hard...
and no one knows that more than I...
I am a trained singer... one of those things I do better than most people <GGG>
when my favourite 'kid' died two years, three months, eight days, fifteen hours and 46 minutes ago, it was more than I could bear.
The strain on my emotions was disastrous... I had a breakdown and ended up under a psychiatrist's care in a hospital for a month... worse, the stress on my vocal cords is still requiring treatment...things are improving... I cry for him only a couple of times a week now... although when I am leaving the orthopaedist's office I still expect to see him walking up the drive to meet me...
not sure when I will remember that he is not going to be there excited to have found me...
happy to greet me and show me how clever he is to have tracked me from home and show my husband that he was able to find me...
when that time comes then it will be time for one of the others to come and meet me... but that time has not yet come...
I play with and work with the others and I love them more than life... but while they are loved equally, he was more equal than others...
and that was when the really heavy duty anti-depressants entered my life...
and when I discovered, thanks to the shrinks, the memories of childhood trauma that I had buried, and now I have to come to terms with all that...
life is so much fun...
but at least I know why I have eating disorders...
it is just a matter of overcoming them....and people here seem to help a lot
kat
Posted by bridgey1128 on October 11, 2004, at 13:54:31
In reply to Re:dogs and Clomipramine/Calmiclam » stressed, posted by Larry Hoover on October 11, 2004, at 13:43:01
I feel guilty because every time we have a ham we give the skin to our dogs. They eat it so fast I am not sure they even taste it!! Of course, this is only an occassional treat, so does this really hurt them? We also give them the bone. Or actually, we have to take turns sneaking it to one or the other because they fight over it. I think if I was a dog I would want to fight over something that yummy too! I LOVE ham! :) I gave up and I am dying my hair back to the color it was 6 months ago. My natural color! I don't like the color it is now. It's turned too dark. What was so funny was that when I went to Walmart today to get the dye my 3 year old was holding the box and said..."Mommy,is there hair in here?" She thought it was a box of hair!!! I about died laughing! Then what made me tear up with laughter was that when I told her it was hair dye she said..." It died?" HAHAHAHAHA!! She thought it was a box of dead hair!! I needed a laugh like that. The innocence of children..
Posted by Larry Hoover on October 11, 2004, at 16:29:34
In reply to Re: ham skin....and a box of dead hair, posted by bridgey1128 on October 11, 2004, at 13:54:31
> I feel guilty because every time we have a ham we give the skin to our dogs. They eat it so fast I am not sure they even taste it!! Of course, this is only an occassional treat, so does this really hurt them? We also give them the bone.
The issue is the salt and fat that we humans tend to crave. Neither is good for a dog.
If you've ever had wild game, you know that there is precious little fat. Fat really irritates a dog's digestive tract, and can trigger pancreatitis because the fat puts the pancreas into overdrive producing digestive enzymes. The enzymes end up digesting the dog's own pancreas. Salt just puts a dog into physiological stress. The combination can make him sick.
You're right that occasional treats aren't likely to do harm. Just watch that the size of the treat itself is not too large.
Lar
Posted by stressed on October 11, 2004, at 17:09:09
In reply to Re: ham skin....and a box of dead hair, posted by Larry Hoover on October 11, 2004, at 16:29:34
Lar, are you a veteranarian? I'm trying to figure out why you are so well educated about animals?....and Kat, I cried when I read your last post. I can go on and on about my beloved dog, whom I cannot even type his name and not get teary eyed. Isn't that crazy? My friends think I'm abnormal because I watch Dog Shows on TV, pick up strays and take my dog everywhere. We were meant to be here, that's for sure. I will talk to my vet about the prozac, I don't think the clomipramine is working as well as it should. It has curtaled the licking, but spinning is in full swing. I don't know what type of like he had before us, but I think he was abused. He used to cowar when we would come near, and it was heartbreaking. Thanks for the info. -L
Posted by headachequeen on October 11, 2004, at 17:46:45
In reply to Re: ham skin....and a box of dead hair, posted by Larry Hoover on October 11, 2004, at 16:29:34
>
> The issue is the salt and fat that we humans tend to crave. Neither is good for a dog.
>
> If you've ever had wild game, you know that there is precious little fat. Fat really irritates a dog's digestive tract, and can trigger pancreatitis because the fat puts the pancreas into overdrive producing digestive enzymes. The enzymes end up digesting the dog's own pancreas. Salt just puts a dog into physiological stress. The combination can make him sick.
>
> You're right that occasional treats aren't likely to do harm. Just watch that the size of the treat itself is not too large.
>
> Larabsolutely and amen... if treats of the ham or other fatty meats are small they should not harm the dog...
in my case, I gave my favourite, remembering all my dogs are equal LOL, a meal of turkey with no skin of course remembering all the warnings from the nutritional experts, and he was so ill just hours later...
as a result he ended up with what I can only remember now, thank you all you idiot doctors who keep cutting back on the anti-seizure meds because you think it is too much never thinking about the agonies that the victim has to live with, as chronic pancreatitis...
and it is vicious...
it almost killed him a couple of times...led me to some research through the agriculture Canada sites and then I found out that what I thought was a diet food was anything but...
all that sodium and fat...
dear heaven...
might as well eat chocolate bars and be done with it sigh....
kat
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