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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 10 of 10. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by chess on October 5, 2004, at 23:12:43
for anyone interested, i've finally found a medication (or rather a combination of medications) that's working for my social anxiety (not 100%, but the most effective I've ever had), i'm taking Xanax-XR and Inderal-LA every morning
Posted by mattw84 on October 6, 2004, at 0:47:46
In reply to Xanax-XR and Inderal-LA working for my anxiety!, posted by chess on October 5, 2004, at 23:12:43
Congrats! I am making tons of progress on the Soc. Anx. front as well. I tried Xanax XR up to 2mg a day, the effect seemed too mild to make a difference for me. Then tried the Xanax immediate release, found it to be very much of a calm and back roller coaster ride from dose to dose. Now trialing klonopin, seems to be VERY effective thus far.
I am just curious what your doses are of the two, and if you have any negative side-effects. Thanks
Matt
Posted by anxiety_free on October 6, 2004, at 1:06:22
In reply to Re: Xanax-XR and Inderal-LA working for my anxiety, posted by mattw84 on October 6, 2004, at 0:47:46
My shrink added normal Inderal to my "arsenal" a while back. Good call. I take 4mgs Klonopin, adderall,120mgs Inderal,Tofranil,Cymbalta, and the occasional sleeping pill (ativan and librium mostly). Anyhoo, since adding the Inderal, I've been MUCH better. I kind of think of it as turbo-charging the Klonopin.
Posted by chess on October 6, 2004, at 5:41:27
In reply to Re: Xanax-XR and Inderal-LA working for my anxiety, posted by mattw84 on October 6, 2004, at 0:47:46
i take .5mg Xanax-XR and 80mg Inderal-LA, anymore Xanax-XR makes me sleepy, i've never tried any different dosage of Inderal-LA
i'm going to do another post asking if anyone has ever used the beta-blocker nadalol (Corgard) and if it was helpful for them, i just found out that nadalol lasts longer than Inderal-LA and comes in generic form which is much much cheaper than Inderal-LA
Posted by Kon on October 6, 2004, at 11:46:43
In reply to Xanax-XR and Inderal-LA working for my anxiety!, posted by chess on October 5, 2004, at 23:12:43
Have tried mixing benzos with atenolol (up to 100 mg)hoping to decrease benzo dosage to improve temporary cognitive deficits following as-needed benzo use. Atenolol seemed pretty useless. Have always wondered if Inderal would work better than atenolol. Have yet to try that combo...
Posted by utopizen on October 6, 2004, at 13:31:55
In reply to Re: Xanax-XR and Inderal-LA working for my anxiety!, posted by Kon on October 6, 2004, at 11:46:43
> Have tried mixing benzos with atenolol (up to 100 mg)hoping to decrease benzo dosage to improve temporary cognitive deficits following as-needed benzo use. Atenolol seemed pretty useless. Have always wondered if Inderal would work better than atenolol. Have yet to try that combo...
>um, I understand you might think this works, but unfortunately benzos only marginally reduce cognitive functioning in contrast to beta blockers-- and that's an understatement! =)
Posted by JayDee on October 6, 2004, at 15:00:14
In reply to Re: Xanax-XR and Inderal-LA working for my anxiety!, posted by utopizen on October 6, 2004, at 13:31:55
> > Have tried mixing benzos with atenolol (up to 100 mg)hoping to decrease benzo dosage to improve temporary cognitive deficits following as-needed benzo use. Atenolol seemed pretty useless. Have always wondered if Inderal would work better than atenolol. Have yet to try that combo...
> >
>
> um, I understand you might think this works, but unfortunately benzos only marginally reduce cognitive functioning in contrast to beta blockers-- and that's an understatement! =)Really? I thought beta blockers were not supposed to affect cognitive functioning at all...Infact I have an article at actually classifies it as a 'nootropic'... was your experience different?
Posted by utopizen on October 6, 2004, at 16:14:33
In reply to Re: Xanax-XR and Inderal-LA working for my anxiety!, posted by JayDee on October 6, 2004, at 15:00:14
>
> Really? I thought beta blockers were not supposed to affect cognitive functioning at all...Infact I have an article at actually classifies it as a 'nootropic'... was your experience different?
>the "nootropic" statement I've read in "smart drugs ii" the book clearly says it reduced anxiety that reduces IQ, thus netting an increase in IQ if your anxiety is markedly decreasing your IQ and the beta blocker is less of a decrease in your IQ than the anxiety you would otherwise have that decreases your IQ.
In other words, your anxiety has to be so bad you're retarded from it.
Posted by Kon on October 6, 2004, at 19:37:27
In reply to Re: Xanax-XR and Inderal-LA working for my anxiety!, posted by utopizen on October 6, 2004, at 13:31:55
> um, I understand you might think this works, but unfortunately benzos only marginally reduce cognitive functioning in contrast to beta blockers-- and that's an understatement! =)
Not to question your personel experience but most of the research I've come across suggests the opposite. I've pasted one such study below. I have heard that propranolol has more cognitive side-effects than atenolol (since it crosses the brain more easily) but I was under the impression that both are better than benzos wrt temporary cognitive/memory deficits. Am I mistaken? I found atenolol (without the benzo) to be totally useless for my anxiety but did not seem to experience any major cognitive deficits (at 100 mg dosage).
My major probem with atenolol was it did zilch for my anxiety. Benzos work great but dosage at times for certain situations can be so high that they temporarily impair my memory/thought processes.Was curious if anybody compared the effects of atenolol with propranolol...
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Clin Pharmacol Ther. 1993 May;53(5):577-84.
Cognitive effects of beta-adrenergic antagonists after single doses: pharmacokinetics and pharmacodynamics of propranolol, atenolol, lorazepam, and placebo.
Greenblatt DJ, Scavone JM, Harmatz JS, Engelhardt N, Shader RI.
Department of Pharmacology and Experimental Therapeutics, Tufts University School of Medicine, Boston, MA 02111.
The behavioral effects of two beta-adrenergic receptor antagonists, selected to represent differing lipophilicity, were evaluated in a double-blind, single-dose, parallel-group study. A group of 55 healthy volunteers (mean age, 28 years) received single oral doses of placebo, atenolol (50 mg), propranolol (40 mg), or lorazepam (2 mg). Plasma drug concentrations, self-ratings of sedation and mood, observer ratings of sedation, and performance on the Digit Symbol Substitution Test (DSST) were assessed at multiple times during 24 hours after drug administration. Information acquisition and recall were tested at 3 and 24 hours after drug administration. Lorazepam significantly increased sedation and fatigue, impaired DSST performance, and impaired memory. The time course of these changes was highly consistent with plasma lorazepam concentrations. In contrast, atenolol and propranolol produced at most small changes in self-ratings and observer ratings and did not alter DSST performance or memory. Under experimental conditions that are sensitive to the depressant effects of a typical benzodiazepine, single doses of atenolol and propranolol produced no meaningful changes, compared with placebo.
Posted by JayDee on October 7, 2004, at 3:20:48
In reply to Re: Xanax-XR and Inderal-LA working for my anxiety!, posted by utopizen on October 6, 2004, at 16:14:33
>
> >
> > Really? I thought beta blockers were not supposed to affect cognitive functioning at all...Infact I have an article at actually classifies it as a 'nootropic'... was your experience different?
> >
>
> the "nootropic" statement I've read in "smart drugs ii" the book clearly says it reduced anxiety that reduces IQ, thus netting an increase in IQ if your anxiety is markedly decreasing your IQ and the beta blocker is less of a decrease in your IQ than the anxiety you would otherwise have that decreases your IQ.
>
> In other words, your anxiety has to be so bad you're retarded from it.Well, I guess I'm retarded then, because that's exactly what happens to me in social situations. even public in general. ;-(
anyways, that's completely different then the article i'm talking about.
heres a cut and paste(sorry, lost the author and source):Propranolol Hydrochloride (Inderal)
Propranolol hydrochloride was for many years the most prescribed drug in the U.S. It is usually prescribed for the control of high blood pressure. However, it has one effect that in some situations can be thought of as intelligence-increasing.
Propranolol blocks the receptor site for adrenaline in the muscles. Adrenaline is often referred to as the flight or fight neurotransmitter. This means that fear (such as stage fright) can cause the body to release enormous amounts of adrenaline into the blood steam. This was a very effective bio-chemical strategy when most feat-producing situations called for fighting or fleeing. Unfortunately, fighting and fleeing are of little help when one is giving a presentation to the board of directors, taking an important exam, going out on a blind date, or attending a social gathering with important and intimidating strangers.Fear causes the body to spiral into an ever-increasing loop more adrenaline causes more fear, which causes more adrenaline, etc. Propranolol can help. Blocking adrenaline interrupts the fear spiral. So propranolol is an intelligence-increasing drug when used in situations where fear prevents one from thinking normally.
Propranolol has one more very interesting side effects if it is used on three or four different occasions in a situation that normally causes fear, you may no longer need to use it in that situation. For example, you may have a new job that requires you to give weekly speeches. If the speeches are in the same room and the same people are there each time, you will probably not need propranolol after a month or so. If the fear situation involves new places and people, the effects of propranolol may not generalize this quickly, if at all.
Precautions Propranolol lowers blood pressure. People with hypotension (abnormally low blood pressure) should not use propranolol. Always take propranolol with food or it may cause nausea, especially if taken with just coffee. do not use propranolol in situations where you may need extra adrenaline, such as athletic events or other activities requiring great physicalk exertion. Propranolol should not be used by people with asthma or arterial spasms. Propranolol should not be used by people within two weeks of having taken an MAO inhibitor or certain other drugs for psychiatric problems (check with your doctor) or during the pollen season, if you suffer from pollen allergies. Use with caution if you have chronic bronchitis or emphysema. If you are diabetic, you should be watched carefully by your doctor. Use cautiously if you have kidney or liver problems. The safe use of propranolol during pregnancy has not been established.
Dosage 10 to 30 mg one and a half hours before the event that usually causes a fear response. Propranolol can cause nausea if taken on an empty stomach, especially if it is taken with coffee and no food.
This is the end of the thread.
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