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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 19 of 19. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by TomV on September 23, 2004, at 15:15:12
I know benzos help a lot of people with a lot of different ailments, but if you take 1/2 mg or more for more than 3 months it's nearly impossible to get off the drug, in my opinion.
In my case I've tried quitting so many times that I've almost given up the thought of trying again. I've been taking a little over 1mg of xanax (after switching from klonopin to ativan to xanax) for almost 6 years, and every time I drop even the slightest amount I start feeling physically ill within a couple days. I've read in the literature that a benzo withdrawl can even cause a Grand Mal seizure, which is kind of what I thought I was experiencing. But my doctor blew me off about that theory when I explained to her what was going on during my withdrawl. One more thing, don't get me wrong; when I needed the benzos back a few years ago they were very helpful. I got immediate relief. But now I feel that they're harming my mood (I also have PTSD and treatment resistent depression) and there isn't a thing I can do about it.
Anyway, this isn't a cry for help. I'm just venting I guess.
Tom
Posted by Jasmineneroli on September 23, 2004, at 18:48:48
In reply to Benzos are a deal with the Devil, posted by TomV on September 23, 2004, at 15:15:12
Tom:
I wonder, if it's working for you (anxiety-wise), why do you want to drop it? Is your frustration that of someone who realizes they need a certain drug to function or feel better, maybe?
Regards
Jas
Posted by Gabbix2 on September 23, 2004, at 19:12:37
In reply to Benzos are a deal with the Devil, posted by TomV on September 23, 2004, at 15:15:12
> I know benzos help a lot of people with a lot of different ailments, but if you take 1/2 mg or more for more than 3 months it's nearly impossible to get off the drug, in my opinion.
>
One more thing, don't get me wrong; when I needed the benzos back a few years ago they were very helpful. I got immediate relief. But now I feel that they're harming my mood>I too felt that Xanax harmed my mood, not so much in itself, it was wonderful while it worked
but I would get rebound anxiety from it when it wore off and the constant mood upheaval was difficult to deal with.I've also found that the shorter acting benzodiazepines can be excruciatingly difficult to withdraw from, though in my experience I've had just as difficult a time with some Anti-depressants.
I don't know why exactly but sometimes I've had next to no problem tapering, and other times it's put me in the psych ward.I hesitate to say this because it may sound flaky but the one time I had no problem with Xanax withdrawal I had taken advice from a former heroin addict who advised me to take megadoses of Vitamin C. He told me that's how he kicked heroin.
I can't say it was all in my head because I really didn't think it would work and I'd tried every other alternative remedy, but this actually did seem to make the difference so who knows?
Another time, I used Valium to help me withdraw
from Ativan and I had very few side effects other than a week of insomnia after I'd finished tapering from the valium.Then after all that I realized that the Ativan wasn't responsible for my worsening depression after all and I went back on it.. :(
Sorry for the long post, I just figured if I knew anything that had a chance of helping you I should let you know.
Posted by TomV on September 23, 2004, at 21:22:12
In reply to Re: Benzos are a deal with the Devil, posted by Jasmineneroli on September 23, 2004, at 18:48:48
> Tom:
> I wonder, if it's working for you (anxiety-wise), why do you want to drop it? Is your frustration that of someone who realizes they need a certain drug to function or feel better, maybe?
> Regards
> JasHello Jas,
No, not really. I conquered my anxiety years ago after a serious, psychoanalytic, breakthrough and the assistance of CBT. All my anxiety dropped down to a remote secondary symptom, and my depression then went through the roof. I continued to take the xanax/klon/etc. because I had been on it for a while and the combination of trying to quit it while being severely depressed almost led me to a nervous breakdown. So I kept taking it... and now I realize I can't get off it even though I sincerely believe I don't need it for anxiety anymore and that it's making my depression worse.
I know there's always the argument that I might be experiencing rebound anxiety when I attempt to withdrawal but I don't believe it's anything like that. I feel no anxiety coming back while trying to quit, only severe, physical sickness.
To complicate matters I'm not taking an AD right now, and am trying to beat depression through CBT and other methods. Most people on the board here would think I'm not being very wise by foregoing an AD, but I've had so many med failures that I have more faith in me than in drugs. But I would not classify myself as "anti-med", even though meds have been a big zero in my book.
Thanks
Tom
Posted by TomV on September 23, 2004, at 21:24:05
In reply to Re: Benzos are a deal with the Devil » TomV, posted by Gabbix2 on September 23, 2004, at 19:12:37
Gabbix,
Interesting idea... how much Vitamin C are we talking about? I know too much of a good thing can be harmful also...
Tom
Posted by Gabbix2 on September 23, 2004, at 22:00:38
In reply to Re: Benzos are a deal with the Devil » Gabbix2, posted by TomV on September 23, 2004, at 21:24:05
It was 1000 mgs 3 X a day of the powdered buffered kind. I did it for a week. I'm pretty sure that amount isn't dangerous. If it wasn't buffered I think it could give you a real stomache ache though.
Posted by ace on September 24, 2004, at 0:32:17
In reply to Benzos are a deal with the Devil, posted by TomV on September 23, 2004, at 15:15:12
> I know benzos help a lot of people with a lot of different ailments,
They do very much so. They save a lot of lifes.
but if you take 1/2 mg or more for more than 3 months it's nearly impossible to get off the drug, in my opinion.
Tom, that's a very innacurate and generalizsed statement. For some people it is true. But for a great many, and I say this after EXTENSIVE anecdotal and clinical research, there is no problem going off the benzo. In fact, There is a trend for users to lower their dose over time!
>
> In my case I've tried quitting so many times that I've almost given up the thought of trying again.Unfortunately you are one of the people who has problems with benzos. I am sorry about that.
I've been taking a little over 1mg of xanax (after switching from klonopin to ativan to xanax) for almost 6 years, and every time I drop even the slightest amount I start feeling physically ill within a couple days.
That's not good. But for me, I take 2mg Xanax a day...I can miss a week and have no withdrawal symptoms.
I've read in the literature that a benzo withdrawl can even cause a Grand Mal seizure, which is kind of what I thought I was experiencing.
That's only in extreme cases where the benzo is RAPIDLY tapered or stopped cold turkey.
But my doctor blew me off about that theory when I explained to her what was going on during my withdrawl. One more thing, don't get me wrong; when I needed the benzos back a few years ago they were very helpful. I got immediate relief. But now I feel that they're harming my mood (I also have PTSD and treatment resistent depression) and there isn't a thing I can do about it.
>
> Anyway, this isn't a cry for help. I'm just venting I guess.
>
> TomTom,
Try...
1. Nardil
2. Sedating TCA
3. Zyprexa
4. Parnate
5. Clonidine
6. Buspar
6. Gabapentin
These drugs may put such a dent in you anxiety that weaning off the benzos becomes quite easy...Good luck,
Ace
Posted by ron1953 on September 24, 2004, at 1:35:27
In reply to Benzos are a deal with the Devil, posted by TomV on September 23, 2004, at 15:15:12
I've been on a rollercoaster of treatment-resistant depression for nearly 15 years. Tried a gazillion meds, some did nothing, some helped for a while and some had intolerable side-effects. It seems to me that meds are like spouses - can't live with 'em, can't live without 'em.
Posted by Sad Panda on September 24, 2004, at 7:54:30
In reply to Benzos are a deal with the Devil, posted by TomV on September 23, 2004, at 15:15:12
> I know benzos help a lot of people with a lot of different ailments, but if you take 1/2 mg or more for more than 3 months it's nearly impossible to get off the drug, in my opinion.
>
> In my case I've tried quitting so many times that I've almost given up the thought of trying again. I've been taking a little over 1mg of xanax (after switching from klonopin to ativan to xanax) for almost 6 years, and every time I drop even the slightest amount I start feeling physically ill within a couple days. I've read in the literature that a benzo withdrawl can even cause a Grand Mal seizure, which is kind of what I thought I was experiencing. But my doctor blew me off about that theory when I explained to her what was going on during my withdrawl. One more thing, don't get me wrong; when I needed the benzos back a few years ago they were very helpful. I got immediate relief. But now I feel that they're harming my mood (I also have PTSD and treatment resistent depression) and there isn't a thing I can do about it.
>
> Anyway, this isn't a cry for help. I'm just venting I guess.
>
> Tom
>
>Hi Tom,
Xanax is the best, but it's the hardest Benzo to quit because it has a short half life & can't be substituted for other long half life Benzos like Valium. Some doctors will prescribe a non-benzo anti epileptic drug such as Neurotin to block seizures, but 1mg/day habit doesn't seem like much to withdrawl from although you could be a poor metabolizer.
Cheers,
Paul.
Posted by utopizen on September 24, 2004, at 13:23:52
In reply to Benzos are a deal with the Devil, posted by TomV on September 23, 2004, at 15:15:12
Xanax withdrawls are a little separate from every other benzo withdrawl, lol!
Why on Earth people switch from Klonopin to Xanax I will never know. I am quite content with remembering to have to take 3 measily doses of Klonopin, no Xanax XR for me!
Posted by TomV on September 24, 2004, at 14:43:12
In reply to Not all benzos = Xanax, jeez!, posted by utopizen on September 24, 2004, at 13:23:52
> Xanax withdrawls are a little separate from every other benzo withdrawl, lol!
>
> Why on Earth people switch from Klonopin to Xanax I will never know. I am quite content with remembering to have to take 3 measily doses of Klonopin, no Xanax XR for me!Utopizen,
I had a much more difficult time coming off Klonopin than any other benzo, so who can say which benzo is most difficult for any given individual. Klonopin also is the biggest mood killer for me, so switching to xanax was the lesser of two evils for me.
Tom
Posted by TomV on September 24, 2004, at 15:03:28
In reply to Re: Benzos are a deal with the Devil » TomV, posted by ace on September 24, 2004, at 0:32:17
> but if you take 1/2 mg or more for more than 3 months it's nearly impossible to get off the drug, in my opinion.
>
> Tom, that's a very innacurate and generalizsed statement. For some people it is true. But for a great many, and I say this after EXTENSIVE anecdotal and clinical research, there is no problem going off the benzo. In fact, There is a trend for users to lower their dose over time!
>
>
Ace,I'm definitely generalizing. Of course it's not the same for everyone. But I know at least 5 people personally, including myself and my wife, who just can't get off the drugs. And my wife only takes 1/2 mg of Klonopin!
One friend went into rehab to quit 1 mg of xanax...he couldn't do it. The doctor asked, "why do you want to quit anyway?" and my friend said he believed the xanax was bringing him down and he didn't believe it was good for his long term physical health. The doctor had no answers.
> > In my case I've tried quitting so many times that I've almost given up the thought of trying again.
>
> Unfortunately you are one of the people who has problems with benzos. I am sorry about that.
I agree. I am unfortunate. But I truly believe many people are in the same boat as me and can't quit these drugs.
> I've been taking a little over 1mg of xanax (after switching from klonopin to ativan to xanax) for almost 6 years, and every time I drop even the slightest amount I start feeling physically ill within a couple days.
>
> That's not good. But for me, I take 2mg Xanax a day...I can miss a week and have no withdrawal symptoms.
You are very fortunate. I wish I could have the same luck (or skill?). I can never tough it out; it's simply not possible.
>
> I've read in the literature that a benzo withdrawl can even cause a Grand Mal seizure, which is kind of what I thought I was experiencing.
>
> That's only in extreme cases where the benzo is RAPIDLY tapered or stopped cold turkey.
Well, that's a tough one. I've tapered down slowly over the course of a couple months where I've gotten past the severe physical sickness only to experience these "seizure-like" symptoms. I'm really not sure why this happens. It's probably due to an earlier withdrawal period where I did go down too quickly. I really worry that I'll be prone to these types of "seizures" for the rest of my life. These symptoms force me to start taking the same dosage I started at again. Uggghhh.
> But my doctor blew me off about that theory when I explained to her what was going on during my withdrawl. One more thing, don't get me wrong; when I needed the benzos back a few years ago they were very helpful. I got immediate relief. But now I feel that they're harming my mood (I also have PTSD and treatment resistent depression) and there isn't a thing I can do about it.
> >
> > Anyway, this isn't a cry for help. I'm just venting I guess.
> >
> > Tom
>
> Tom,
>
> Try...
>
> 1. Nardil
> 2. Sedating TCA
> 3. Zyprexa
> 4. Parnate
> 5. Clonidine
> 6. Buspar
> 6. Gabapentin
>
>
> These drugs may put such a dent in you anxiety that weaning off the benzos becomes quite easy...
>
> Good luck,
>
> AceThanks Ace, I've tried a couple things on your list, but not all. I've got Parnate sitting on my shelf right now, but I'm totally chicken to take it.
Tom
Posted by Jasmineneroli on September 24, 2004, at 17:32:28
In reply to Re: Benzos are a deal with the Devil » Jasmineneroli, posted by TomV on September 23, 2004, at 21:22:12
Hi: I really feel for you...I know it seems like such a "no win" situation.
It's great that you have got rid of your anxiety symptoms.
Now to get rid of the residual depression and deal with the benzo withdrawal symptoms!
Do you think it's possible that you actually have a seizure disorder, like Temporal Lobe Epilepsy?
There is a huge parallel in terms of physical & mental/emotional symptoms, with anxiety-depression disorders. There is a lot of research being done by neuro-psychiatrists right now.
I just thought that it might be possible that the Klon. is taking care of a seizure disorder, since it's primary use was always as an anti-convulsant/seizure med. And that is why you get seizure-like activity on withdrawal???? Just me pondering the possibilities. Try searching the 'net for Temporal Lobe Epilepsy (or TLE) and see if you have any of the symptoms. Then mention it to your Pdoc (although, I think neurologists might be more familiar with the condition).If you search the archives here at Babble, I remember some quite interesting ideas and links for kicking the benzo habit.
Best of luck to you!
Jas
Posted by jujube on September 24, 2004, at 18:30:12
In reply to Benzos are a deal with the Devil, posted by TomV on September 23, 2004, at 15:15:12
It's just a suggestion (and I am certainly no expert on natural supplements - just someone who is trying to educate themselves on alternative remedies for my anxiety), but why don't you try some amino acids along with a B-Complex supplement. I have been reading about aminos and have seen some discussions on the Alternatives board. I would appear that Gaba is a good for anxiety as is Taurine. L-Glutamine produces GABA, I think, and could be combined with Taurine perhaps. A natural substitute may help you with the withdrawal and could provide the relief you need for the anxiety issues, without the worry of dependency. I, too, worry about dependency and that is why I have started looking for a reliable natural alternative. I use Xanax, but really have to be careful (I am an alcoholic with 8.5 years of sobriety). My doctor will only give me a very small prescription once in a while (10 - .25 mg) to be used in emergencies. Anyways, that's my 2 cents. Take good care.
> I know benzos help a lot of people with a lot of different ailments, but if you take 1/2 mg or more for more than 3 months it's nearly impossible to get off the drug, in my opinion.
>
> In my case I've tried quitting so many times that I've almost given up the thought of trying again. I've been taking a little over 1mg of xanax (after switching from klonopin to ativan to xanax) for almost 6 years, and every time I drop even the slightest amount I start feeling physically ill within a couple days. I've read in the literature that a benzo withdrawl can even cause a Grand Mal seizure, which is kind of what I thought I was experiencing. But my doctor blew me off about that theory when I explained to her what was going on during my withdrawl. One more thing, don't get me wrong; when I needed the benzos back a few years ago they were very helpful. I got immediate relief. But now I feel that they're harming my mood (I also have PTSD and treatment resistent depression) and there isn't a thing I can do about it.
>
> Anyway, this isn't a cry for help. I'm just venting I guess.
>
> Tom
Posted by Gabbix2 on September 24, 2004, at 19:32:03
In reply to Not all benzos = Xanax, jeez!, posted by utopizen on September 24, 2004, at 13:23:52
Klonopin made me suicidally depressed. That did not happen with either Xanax or Ativan
Posted by Shadowplayers721 on September 25, 2004, at 18:22:39
In reply to Benzos are a deal with the Devil, posted by TomV on September 23, 2004, at 15:15:12
I got physically dependent on Klonopin and it took 3 years to taper from 2 mg. Now, I find the key to using it is only take when absolutely necessary. I take it during menstration, because I have the shakes and depression really bad. Other, than that I try to leave the stuff alone.
Posted by rvanson on September 26, 2004, at 17:12:35
In reply to Benzos are a deal with the Devil, posted by TomV on September 23, 2004, at 15:15:12
> I know benzos help a lot of people with a lot of different ailments, but if you take 1/2 mg or more for more than 3 months it's nearly impossible to get off the drug, in my opinion.
>
> In my case I've tried quitting so many times that I've almost given up the thought of trying again. I've been taking a little over 1mg of xanax (after switching from klonopin to ativan to xanax) for almost 6 years, and every time I drop even the slightest amount I start feeling physically ill within a couple days. I've read in the literature that a benzo withdrawl can even cause a Grand Mal seizure, which is kind of what I thought I was experiencing. But my doctor blew me off about that theory when I explained to her what was going on during my withdrawl. One more thing, don't get me wrong; when I needed the benzos back a few years ago they were very helpful. I got immediate relief. But now I feel that they're harming my mood (I also have PTSD and treatment resistent depression) and there isn't a thing I can do about it.
>
> Anyway, this isn't a cry for help. I'm just venting I guess.
>
> TomBenzo' have saved many a life including mine.
As for getting off Benzo's, I can assure you that stopping a Benzodiazapine is much, much easier then quitting smoking, as a former smoker myself.
Are they are everyone?
Of course not, but please dont fuel the anti-benzo fire that many doctors in fera employ these days, and that keeps a useful medication from helping people like me.
Posted by reefer on September 27, 2004, at 12:20:57
In reply to Benzos are a deal with the Devil, posted by TomV on September 23, 2004, at 15:15:12
If you are on Xanax(alprazolam) 1 mg/day you can switch to Valium(diazepam) 20 mg/day and taper by 1 mg every two weeks. If you during or by the end of the withdrawal feel something that you think is "strong/severe withdrawal" i bet it's not withdrawal but rather your underlying condition that is speaking. I've once tried tapering using diazepam and really had no trouble until i reached around 3 - 4 mg's. (Note that 1 mg of Valium is equal to 0.05 mg of Xanax.) It took a stop and i spoke to my doc and she told me that it's my panic disorder which is only responding partly to the Lexapro i take and that i will need to stay on a benzo for maintenence until i get my life back together again and she put me on 2 mg Xanax XR per day which i'm still on. Soon gonna switch to Klonopin and lower the dose to minimum that keeps me in shape.
And i'll admit benzos aren't really helping my memory and such. But without them i wouldn't need a memory i'd rather be dead than having those damn panic attacks day in and day out. Cause nothing else really works. I'll stay on them for the rest of my life if that's what it takes. I can function good enough. And if my message isn't in 100% proper english it's not because of benzos it's because i'm from Sweden!
Posted by olysi79 on September 27, 2004, at 16:13:37
In reply to Re: Benzos are a deal with the Devil, posted by reefer on September 27, 2004, at 12:20:57
I take Ativan AS NEEDED for my anxiety and it does help me. I set rules for myself with it though... it is NOT a drug I use daily, and if I experience heavy anxiety for a day between doses, then thats what I have to go through, as I don't need the aggravation of withdrawal from daily use. Xanax is hard to get off of, that's for darn sure. I hope you're ok Tom.
This is the end of the thread.
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