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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 11 of 11. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by alesta on August 17, 2004, at 2:17:23
From what I understand, most people can’t tolerate Nardil’s side effects. I’m not sure exactly what all these side effects are, but I know weight gain is a biggie. Does Provigil successfully counteract this? Is this combination effective for social anxiety? What are the other major side effects associated with Nardil that I need to be aware of? Does Provigil minimize these as well? Is this even a safe combination? Thanks in advance if anyone has the answers to any of these questions.
sincerely,
amy
Posted by craig getty on August 17, 2004, at 4:17:24
In reply to Has anyone taken PROVIGIL + NARDIL?, posted by alesta on August 17, 2004, at 2:17:23
> From what I understand, most people can’t tolerate Nardil’s side effects. I’m not sure exactly what all these side effects are, but I know weight gain is a biggie. Does Provigil successfully counteract this? Is this combination effective for social anxiety? What are the other major side effects associated with Nardil that I need to be aware of? Does Provigil minimize these as well? Is this even a safe combination? Thanks in advance if anyone has the answers to any of these questions.
>
> sincerely,
> amy
>amy,
i took nardil + provigil for several months and i didn't experience any negative interaction between the two.
but, nardil made me very tired, and the provigil did not do enough to help this. nardil also caused weight gain (probably due to carbo cravings) - provigil didn't help this either.
As far as social anxiety goes, i found nardil very effective (with or without provigil). i stopped taking nardil because its antidepressant benefits stopped working and the tiredness factor got too annoying.
-cg.
Posted by alesta on August 17, 2004, at 7:08:39
In reply to Re: Has anyone taken PROVIGIL + NARDIL?, posted by craig getty on August 17, 2004, at 4:17:24
craig,
thank you!! i wasn’t expecting anyone to answer that question (don’t ask me why :)). that is *so* helpful.
have you taken parnate?
amy
Posted by King Vultan on August 17, 2004, at 7:31:52
In reply to Has anyone taken PROVIGIL + NARDIL?, posted by alesta on August 17, 2004, at 2:17:23
> From what I understand, most people can’t tolerate Nardil’s side effects. I’m not sure exactly what all these side effects are, but I know weight gain is a biggie. Does Provigil successfully counteract this? Is this combination effective for social anxiety? What are the other major side effects associated with Nardil that I need to be aware of? Does Provigil minimize these as well? Is this even a safe combination? Thanks in advance if anyone has the answers to any of these questions.
>
> sincerely,
> amy
>Nardil by itself is one of the most effective meds available for social anxiety/social phobia, but as you surmise, it does have a lot of side effects. I experienced some weight gain, loss of libido, delayed orgasm, severe orthostatic hypotension, severe insomnia, and some weakness and loss of energy. In my case, the weight gain seemed to be metabolic related, and lowering calorie intake and increasing exercise (I was running up to 20 miles a week) was just allowing me to hold my own.
All in all, Parnate might be a better choice, as this is also reputed to be good for social anxiety while having vastly fewer side effects than Nardil. I have tried Provigil, but only by itself, and only for a couple of days, as it made me intolerably sleepy. Most people have better luck with it, and it might be a good thing to combine with the Nardil, assuming it is a safe combination.
Todd
Posted by Piquet on August 17, 2004, at 8:20:46
In reply to Has anyone taken PROVIGIL + NARDIL?, posted by alesta on August 17, 2004, at 2:17:23
I would like to say that I took Nardil from 1989 to 1993 and it very much changed my life for the better. It eventually pooped out, but I think I may have inadvertently contributed to this by my incredibly hard drinking at that time (which was a continuation of the "coping strategies" I learned as a young adult). When it worked, Nardil *energised me* and helped me to *lose weight*. Occasional anorgasmia?... yes, for sure, but as a lifelong depressive I found that this was not too high a price to pay. I am presentaly in week six of my Parnate therapy and I am starting to lose the weight which I have gained during the years of lousy, ineffectual, stupid, pointless SSRI treatment. (Sorry, do I sound a little prejudiced? So be it.) I am an atpical depressive. I am 52 years old and although I was diagnosed with Major Depression when I was 25 y.o. I have suffered since I was in my early adolescence.
You must remember that these therapies need to be given adequate time and dosage. This doesn't always happen because not many docs are au fait regarding their safety, for starters, and their efficacy. MAOIs are dinosaurs, but they continue to be damned effective with people who are treatment resistant, and therefore shouldn't be taken lightly.
I wish you success,Piquet.
Posted by alesta on August 17, 2004, at 9:11:57
In reply to Re: Has anyone taken PROVIGIL + NARDIL? » alesta, posted by King Vultan on August 17, 2004, at 7:31:52
hi, king v. (todd),
thank you! no, i'm definitely *not* going to be taking nardil anytime soon. i've wanted to take parnate all along, and keep coming back to it as the best choice for me. but right now i'm on prozac and am almost disappointed that i'm starting to like this med. it's that damn (excuse my language, dr. bob, hi :)) dopamine lowerage that ruins everything. i don't know whether to go off it or not. i just learned that raising dopamine levels may make the prozac ineffective, as it is apparently part of the mechanism through which it works. so that's not really an option.
that's interesting that the provigil makes you tired. i thought it was supposed to provide energy. are you a rare case :)?
thanks for responding. :)
amy
Posted by alesta on August 17, 2004, at 13:10:52
In reply to Re: Has anyone taken PROVIGIL + NARDIL?, posted by Piquet on August 17, 2004, at 8:20:46
hello, piquet,thank you for your compassionate post, and for sharing with me. i will heed your advice. Parnate sounds like a real winner to me.
i am glad you have finally received treatment, and so sorry for the years you had to endure without it. you seem like a very kind person. let me know if i can ever help in some way.
wishing you only happiness,
Amy
Posted by Piquet on August 17, 2004, at 17:10:16
In reply to Re: Has anyone taken PROVIGIL + NARDIL?--PIQUET, posted by alesta on August 17, 2004, at 13:10:52
>
> hello, piquet,
>
> thank you for your compassionate post, and for sharing with me. i will heed your advice. Parnate sounds like a real winner to me.
>
> i am glad you have finally received treatment, and so sorry for the years you had to endure without it. you seem like a very kind person. let me know if i can ever help in some way.
>
> wishing you only happiness,
> AmyThanks Amy. I thought I'd just mention to you (although you may already be aware of this fact) that there is quite a long washout period involved in switching from Prozac to a MAOI. I have read of six weeks being recommended, but for all I know that could be an ultra-conservative suggestion. I believe that Serotonin Syndrome is the risk involved in a quick switch. Take care,
Piquet
Posted by craig getty on August 17, 2004, at 22:18:14
In reply to Re: Has anyone taken PROVIGIL + NARDIL?, posted by alesta on August 17, 2004, at 7:08:39
> craig,
>
> thank you!! i wasn’t expecting anyone to answer that question (don’t ask me why :)). that is *so* helpful.
>
> have you taken parnate?
>
> amy
>
amy,I did try parnate after nardil. It also was helpful for social anxiety. But, it never provided ANY relief for depression yet gave me the same side effects that I had with Nardil. I stopped Parnate after 5 weeks of continually raising my dose. (For comparision's sake, Nardil started working by week 3 and really kicked in great by week 6. SSRI's and SNRI's usually kick in for me by the 2nd or 3rd week).
When I stopped the Parnate, I began to experience anxiety worse than I ever did before trying out the MAOIs. I have since taken the occassional small dose (0.25 mg) of Klonopin to deal with that.
Here are some of my other thoughts (in no particular order) based on the other responses you received for your post:
My pdoc made me take a 4 week washout period between SSRI and Nardil, and a 2 week period between Nardil and Parnate.
One thing I didn't mention about Nardil and weight gain in my last post: I actually lost over 10 pounds during my first 2 months on Nardil. I was dieting at the time and the positive effects of Nardil led me to resume exercise. It was after 2 months that the weight started coming back - I gained back the 10 and added another 10 (which still kept me in average weight range for my size, but nevertheless did not make me happy).
If Prozac is helping you somewhat right now, you might want to consider adding Wellbutrin to it before having to go through the washout period for an MAOI. Out of the many meds I have been on, Prozac and Wellbutrin was one of the combos that I found to work well for a while.
Good luck with what you decide.
cg
Posted by alesta on August 18, 2004, at 2:11:33
In reply to Re: Has anyone taken PROVIGIL + NARDIL? » alesta, posted by craig getty on August 17, 2004, at 22:18:14
Hi, Craigers :) :0),
Parnate provided no relief from depression and the same side effects as nardil? That is surprising. I have heard so many positive things about this med. I’m glad to get input from the other side, as I’m sure you’re not an isolated case. I wish I knew for sure how it would affect me. But, I agree, I really want to stay on the prozac anyway right now, and hopefully augment it with the right med. And thank you for the other information as well. You’ve provided exactly what I needed to know.
Your writing style reminds me of my own.:)
Appreciatively,
Amy
Posted by craig getty on August 18, 2004, at 14:03:44
In reply to Re: Has anyone taken PROVIGIL + NARDIL?, posted by alesta on August 18, 2004, at 2:11:33
Hi Amy,
Yeah, I was surprised (and disappointed!) that Parnate was so ineffective for me. BTW, if you haven't already checked it out, a site with some good MAOI info is www.socialfear.com.
I often find it confusing that most meds produce different reactions and (side)effects in different people. Scientific studies can't necessarily account for/measure the different biochemical make-ups of those in their studies. Not to mention what I feel are crucial elements that effect how people feel during any given time period: diet, exercise, and what's going on in their life (relationships, work, money, even the weather). I think a great benefit of the anecdotal information on this site is that we often get a more complete story about the poster as opposed to "just the facts" about what meds they're taking.cg
p.s. I was glad to read your comment on my writing style because I find yours enjoyable (while I think I sometimes tend to ramble). :)
This is the end of the thread.
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