![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 8 of 8. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Johnny Doe on August 12, 2004, at 22:48:57
I don't know what percentage of people this is, but many people taking psycho. medication are not seeing a therapist and/or working on the issues that lead them to medication in the first place. So in addition to the obvious chemical side effects of discontinuing use, we are left psychologically vulnerable.
An analogy I would like to make is of that of a young child living at home. The child is very happy and foolishly thinks he is capable of living out on his own; a noble aspiration, but very stupid. The problem is that many of us (myself included) have tried to "run out of the house" with no clothes, money, food, or any idea how to support outselves. Human maturation is a slow process; we aren't sea-turtles.
If you are at a specific level of medication, and are not happy, it seems that considering dropping all medication completely is a very unwise thought. You have to learn how to swim before you can jump in the pool, and to assume you'll just figure it out when you get in is silly.
For those who are satisfied, and want to come off, this is my advice...the slower the better. Not just so your body can adjust, but your mind most importantly. Remember that you didn't just "ease" into adulthood from childhood over a couple of weeks. I'm not implying that one should take years comming off a medication, but it may be necessary for some.
Currently I am at 75mg of Effexor XR. In addition this, I see a physchologist every two weeks and have recently started meditating. As silly as this may sound, you may be greatly surprised at how much this helps if you learn how to meditate properly. I am planning my withdrawl attempt, which isn't my first, and I know that from the time I start cutting down to when I'm completely off will be at least 3 months, no less.
Now by that I'm not implying that a 150mg taker necessarily would need 6 months, etc. It's just important to remember that you need time for your mind to adjust to life without the aid of medication.If anyone feels differently, or agrees, please post follow-ups. Thanks.
John
Posted by mike lynch on August 12, 2004, at 23:38:20
In reply to My theory on the difficulty of withdrawl, posted by Johnny Doe on August 12, 2004, at 22:48:57
> I don't know what percentage of people this is, but many people taking psycho. medication are not seeing a therapist and/or working on the issues that lead them to medication in the first place. So in addition to the obvious chemical side effects of discontinuing use, we are left psychologically vulnerable.
> An analogy I would like to make is of that of a young child living at home. The child is very happy and foolishly thinks he is capable of living out on his own; a noble aspiration, but very stupid. The problem is that many of us (myself included) have tried to "run out of the house" with no clothes, money, food, or any idea how to support outselves. Human maturation is a slow process; we aren't sea-turtles.
> If you are at a specific level of medication, and are not happy, it seems that considering dropping all medication completely is a very unwise thought. You have to learn how to swim before you can jump in the pool, and to assume you'll just figure it out when you get in is silly.
> For those who are satisfied, and want to come off, this is my advice...the slower the better. Not just so your body can adjust, but your mind most importantly. Remember that you didn't just "ease" into adulthood from childhood over a couple of weeks. I'm not implying that one should take years comming off a medication, but it may be necessary for some.
> Currently I am at 75mg of Effexor XR. In addition this, I see a physchologist every two weeks and have recently started meditating. As silly as this may sound, you may be greatly surprised at how much this helps if you learn how to meditate properly. I am planning my withdrawl attempt, which isn't my first, and I know that from the time I start cutting down to when I'm completely off will be at least 3 months, no less.
> Now by that I'm not implying that a 150mg taker necessarily would need 6 months, etc. It's just important to remember that you need time for your mind to adjust to life without the aid of medication.
>
> If anyone feels differently, or agrees, please post follow-ups. Thanks.
>
> JohnI definitely understand what you're saying and although may seem plausible , the explanation is basically the fact that you're body is use to serotonin being pumped into your body day by day by day..and when this is suddenly stopped you're body is not use to it..therefore the result is many horrible physical symptoms....
Posted by King Vultan on August 13, 2004, at 7:43:11
In reply to Re: My theory on the difficulty of withdrawl, posted by mike lynch on August 12, 2004, at 23:38:20
>
> I definitely understand what you're saying and although may seem plausible , the explanation is basically the fact that you're body is use to serotonin being pumped into your body day by day by day..and when this is suddenly stopped you're body is not use to it..therefore the result is many horrible physical symptoms....
>
>I basically agree; various systems in the body become accustomed to higher levels of serotonin transmission when a person is on a serotonergic med and then have to readapt once the med is tapered or dropped. The readaptation is what triggers the withdrawal symptoms. My own experience and opinion taking four different serotonergic meds was that none of them were actually psychologically addictive, and in the case of only one of them (Effexor) were the withdrawal symptoms bad enough for the drug to be classified as physically addictive.
Todd
Posted by Sebastian on August 13, 2004, at 12:10:23
In reply to My theory on the difficulty of withdrawl, posted by Johnny Doe on August 12, 2004, at 22:48:57
I agree, slow withdraw. Will probably take me 10 years or more. Psychotherapy does not work for me very well.
Posted by Johnny Doe on August 13, 2004, at 20:11:16
In reply to Re: My theory on the difficulty of withdrawl » mike lynch, posted by King Vultan on August 13, 2004, at 7:43:11
So I suppose you are all implying that ALL people's psycological problems are ALL biochemical? That all functions of the conscious and unconscious mind are simply chemical equations that need to be "rearranged"? Perhaps some, if not many people, are born with an "improper chemical make-up". However, many people aren't properly raised with the right "personality make-up". In my belief, psycologist are far to quick to sell people on the "chemical imbalance" bullsh**, and people buy into it because it's cheaper and a hell of a lot easier than spending time and money with a therapist/friend/mentor/buddha to develop a secure,healthy, postive, etc outlook on life.
This is just my opinion, and I must admit that there is a small possibility that this is just the medicine talking.John
Posted by King Vultan on August 14, 2004, at 10:23:37
In reply to Re: My theory on the difficulty of withdrawl, posted by Johnny Doe on August 13, 2004, at 20:11:16
> So I suppose you are all implying that ALL people's psycological problems are ALL biochemical? That all functions of the conscious and unconscious mind are simply chemical equations that need to be "rearranged"? Perhaps some, if not many people, are born with an "improper chemical make-up". However, many people aren't properly raised with the right "personality make-up". In my belief, psycologist are far to quick to sell people on the "chemical imbalance" bullsh**, and people buy into it because it's cheaper and a hell of a lot easier than spending time and money with a therapist/friend/mentor/buddha to develop a secure,healthy, postive, etc outlook on life.
> This is just my opinion, and I must admit that there is a small possibility that this is just the medicine talking.
>
> John
Well, all I was doing was making a comment on the nature of withdrawal symptoms, which has little or nothing to do with the issue of whether depression is more psychological or biochemical. I actually agree with you, and I think far too many people are overmedicated and do not do enough work on the psychological aspects of their depression. I think many bipolar individuals do have some kind of fundamental biochemical imbalance that virtually demands medication, but I really don't think this is necessarily true for everyone who suffers from unipolar depression, even for someone like myself who has been been plagued with anhedonia and depression for over a decade. I believe there is certainly more I could be doing on a psychological level, and this is an area where I am continually trying to force myself to focus on in order to improve my outlook. I think that putting all one's hopes into just the drug aspect of treatment is probably not the optimum strategy for success.Todd
Posted by Camille Dumont on August 15, 2004, at 10:56:56
In reply to My theory on the difficulty of withdrawl, posted by Johnny Doe on August 12, 2004, at 22:48:57
I don't know, for me when I decided to quit I felt like I needed drastic change ... from that comfortable medication and psycotherapy routine I was in. It had helped me tremendously and pulled me out from the darked deepest pit of depression but I wanted to try and fly on my own.
I was also afraid that my psychologist would not approve of me going off cold turkey (which would most likely have been a very sound advice) but this was my decision and I definately did not want to have to justify myself to her ... especially since I liked her very much and knew it would be difficult for me to contradict her and what not.
But I'm like that ... sometimes I need change right then and now and drastic ones work best for me ... which might not be the case for most peoples.
3 weeks have gone by and I still do not regret it but who knows, my perspective might be different in a few weeks / months.
Posted by Alesa on August 16, 2004, at 11:56:01
In reply to Re: My theory on the difficulty of withdrawl, posted by Johnny Doe on August 13, 2004, at 20:11:16
Depression is a very complicated mental illness. Only a combination of meds and therapy is effective in most cases. It can take years to correct since it took years to develop. I tried pschotherapy for years before I took meds, and it didn't help my anxiety or depression. I tried yoga and meditation and excercise-didn't help much. It wasn't until I tried meds with the help of therapy that I am starting to get better.
It's not an easy battle, and there is no quick fix or cure. One needs to learn learn how to manage it without fearing or avoiding it.
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.