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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 25. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by crazychickuk on August 2, 2004, at 17:55:39
Hi, i am of to see physciatrist on wednesday, i dont wish to go onto any antidepressants i just want a benzo for a while to control my anxiety/panick attacks etc... and have some cbt therapy if the mental health can get me in..
i currently have valium here only 2mg but i take up to 6 mg when i need it not every day like.. i sometimes get a little panicky within a few minutes of taking it, few years ago i was taking it on a regular basis and i actually had a severe panick attack .. was strange anyone know what could of happened or what could be happening to me when i sometimes get panicky when i taking 1?
anyways shall i ask for xanax? wat is the difference please? i am sure physc will give it to me.. i aint on no meds so my mind will be my own this coming wednesday :-)
thanks
Posted by chemist on August 2, 2004, at 18:12:09
In reply to DIFFERENCE PLEASE? XANAX vs VALIUM ?, posted by crazychickuk on August 2, 2004, at 17:55:39
hello there, chemist here....xanax packs more punch than valium when taken chronically. in my *opinion* you should demand as much xanax as possible from your doctor and shoot for a daily dose of 4 to 6 mg. failing that, get a script for 20 to 40 mg valium. i personally guarantee that either of these will do the trick, or your money back. no joke. get on it, and be forceful. all the best, Dr. Chemist, Ph.D.p.s. seriously. get the meds. lots of them. you life will improve immeasurably. please report to us a.s.a.p. yours, c
> Hi, i am of to see physciatrist on wednesday, i dont wish to go onto any antidepressants i just want a benzo for a while to control my anxiety/panick attacks etc... and have some cbt therapy if the mental health can get me in..
>
> i currently have valium here only 2mg but i take up to 6 mg when i need it not every day like.. i sometimes get a little panicky within a few minutes of taking it, few years ago i was taking it on a regular basis and i actually had a severe panick attack .. was strange anyone know what could of happened or what could be happening to me when i sometimes get panicky when i taking 1?
>
> anyways shall i ask for xanax? wat is the difference please? i am sure physc will give it to me.. i aint on no meds so my mind will be my own this coming wednesday :-)
>
>
> thanks
>
Posted by jerrympls on August 2, 2004, at 21:06:12
In reply to Re: DIFFERENCE PLEASE? XANAX vs VALIUM ? » crazychickuk, posted by chemist on August 2, 2004, at 18:12:09
>
> hello there, chemist here....xanax packs more punch than valium when taken chronically. in my *opinion* you should demand as much xanax as possible from your doctor and shoot for a daily dose of 4 to 6 mg. failing that, get a script for 20 to 40 mg valium. i personally guarantee that either of these will do the trick, or your money back. no joke. get on it, and be forceful. all the best, Dr. Chemist, Ph.D.
>
> p.s. seriously. get the meds. lots of them. you life will improve immeasurably. please report to us a.s.a.p. yours, c
>
> > Hi, i am of to see physciatrist on wednesday, i dont wish to go onto any antidepressants i just want a benzo for a while to control my anxiety/panick attacks etc... and have some cbt therapy if the mental health can get me in..
> >
> > i currently have valium here only 2mg but i take up to 6 mg when i need it not every day like.. i sometimes get a little panicky within a few minutes of taking it, few years ago i was taking it on a regular basis and i actually had a severe panick attack .. was strange anyone know what could of happened or what could be happening to me when i sometimes get panicky when i taking 1?
> >
> > anyways shall i ask for xanax? wat is the difference please? i am sure physc will give it to me.. i aint on no meds so my mind will be my own this coming wednesday :-)
> >
> >
> > thanks
> >
>YEOW! I'm on 50mg of Valium (10mg 4xdaily and 10mg prn). Chemist - if you are reading this - my pdoc is putting me on Xanax XR tomorrow - what's the highest dose the XR version comes in? I'm afraid he'll be too conservative.
Thanks!
Jerry
Posted by Impermanence on August 2, 2004, at 21:12:34
In reply to Re: DIFFERENCE PLEASE? XANAX vs VALIUM ? » crazychickuk, posted by chemist on August 2, 2004, at 18:12:09
I dont agree with that at all, I've been off benzos for nearly six weeks now after about 19 months of daily intake and things are much better for me now than being a slave to Roche pharmaceuticals. I thought I'd never get off benzos but I was forced to after alcohol detox. I think it's very irresponsible of you to advise taking 4 to 6mg of Xanax or 30 to 40mg of diazepam a day, thats just crazy, why not just drink a bottle of vodka a day too and throw in a few barbiturates for good measure!!
Sure, benzos are fantastic, but only as a short term solution and in low doses. There are other ways to deal with the underlying issues causing the anxiety than numbing yourself with sedatives. I found it very difficult to live without benzos at first, but when my central nervous system got used to living without them I realized it was the pills making me so anxious, I needed them all the time, I couldent function without them. Now I'm off them nearly six weeks I feel I don't need them. The mental addiction is still with me but I'm sure that will go in time.Crazychickuk the difference between Xanax and Valium is Xanax is extremely potent and has a very short half life, Valium is nowhere near as potent (10mg of Valium is equivalent to 0.5mg of Xanax) and has a much longer half life. Valium in higher doses can also be hypnotic and is a muscle relaxant. Xanax would be a better choice for your condition.
Posted by chemist on August 2, 2004, at 21:15:49
In reply to Re: DIFFERENCE PLEASE? XANAX vs VALIUM ? » chemist, posted by jerrympls on August 2, 2004, at 21:06:12
hello there, chemist here...the highest dose formulation for xanax XR is 3 mg. in my opinion, xanax is a better option than valium, if only for the lack of physical lethargy (which ought to be significant at your dose level) and antidepressant effects. my *opinion* is to push for 3 mg xanax XR thress times a day, thus 9 mg/day total. you could slowly - very, very slowly - back off on the valium, should you desire. i am assuming you are not taking any drugs that are stimulating, as that could be a factor in the need for a rather high dose of valium. all the best, and keep us posted, please.....chemist
> >
> > hello there, chemist here....xanax packs more punch than valium when taken chronically. in my *opinion* you should demand as much xanax as possible from your doctor and shoot for a daily dose of 4 to 6 mg. failing that, get a script for 20 to 40 mg valium. i personally guarantee that either of these will do the trick, or your money back. no joke. get on it, and be forceful. all the best, Dr. Chemist, Ph.D.
> >
> > p.s. seriously. get the meds. lots of them. you life will improve immeasurably. please report to us a.s.a.p. yours, c
> >
> > > Hi, i am of to see physciatrist on wednesday, i dont wish to go onto any antidepressants i just want a benzo for a while to control my anxiety/panick attacks etc... and have some cbt therapy if the mental health can get me in..
> > >
> > > i currently have valium here only 2mg but i take up to 6 mg when i need it not every day like.. i sometimes get a little panicky within a few minutes of taking it, few years ago i was taking it on a regular basis and i actually had a severe panick attack .. was strange anyone know what could of happened or what could be happening to me when i sometimes get panicky when i taking 1?
> > >
> > > anyways shall i ask for xanax? wat is the difference please? i am sure physc will give it to me.. i aint on no meds so my mind will be my own this coming wednesday :-)
> > >
> > >
> > > thanks
> > >
> >
>
> YEOW! I'm on 50mg of Valium (10mg 4xdaily and 10mg prn). Chemist - if you are reading this - my pdoc is putting me on Xanax XR tomorrow - what's the highest dose the XR version comes in? I'm afraid he'll be too conservative.
>
> Thanks!
> Jerry
Posted by chemist on August 2, 2004, at 21:56:25
In reply to Re: DIFFERENCE PLEASE? XANAX vs VALIUM ? » chemist, posted by Impermanence on August 2, 2004, at 21:12:34
hello there, chemist here...my comments below delineated with asterisks...all the best, chemist
> I dont agree with that at all, I've been off benzos for nearly six weeks now after about 19 months of daily intake and things are much better for me now than being a slave to Roche pharmaceuticals. I thought I'd never get off benzos but I was forced to after alcohol detox.I think it's very irresponsible of you to advise taking 4 to 6mg of Xanax or 30 to 40mg of diazepam a day, thats just crazy, why not just drink a bottle of vodka a day too and throw in a few barbiturates for good measure!!
>
>*** this is a personal attack from to to me. while your opinion is that is irresponsible of me to advise taking the abovementioned drugs in the abovementioned forms, your assertion of ``that's just crazy'' in insulting to me. besides, you're an alcoholic who also had a hard time getting off of benzos. i'm not an alcoholic, recovering or otherwise, or an abuser of any other drugs. are you in any condition to evaluate my mental health as ``crazy,'' especially in light of your problems? in my opinion, your judgement has been clouded by your addiction to alcohol and benzodiazepines. alcohol + barbituates being recommended by you is irresponsible, dangerous, and reads like a command. please address your barb at me and please do not assert that a bottle of vodka and some barbituates are equivalent to the benzo/benzo-derivatives i mention above: not only have you failed to find an appropriate analogy, you are offering dangerous ``advice.'' please consider your audience next time. ****
>
> Sure, benzos are fantastic, but only as a short term solution and in low doses.*** this is your opinion. interestingly, you were on them for 19 weeks: is that a short time? and because they were used to get you off of alcohol, you were likely given 30 to 40 mg/day in the first few days of your deetox, then between 15 and 20 mg/day after that. please provide factual information when needed.****
There are other ways to deal with the underlying issues causing the anxiety than numbing yourself with sedatives.
*** i agree. you dealt with it first by using alcohol, which then led to the use of benzos. currently, you have suggested alcohol+barbituates. i suggest therapy, buspar, trazodone, and luvox, to name a few. for those of us who do not abuse alcohol, benzos might be a good solution. not everybody has an addictive personality. thank you for your suggestion, though. ****
I found it very difficult to live without benzos at first, but when my central nervous system got used to living without them I realized it was the pills making me so anxious, I needed them all the time, I couldent function without them.
*** of course you needed them: because of your alcoholism, you were prescribed benzos to ease withdrawl: one of many ways to reduce seizures, DT, and so forth. and you (apparently) had a paradoxical reaction to the benzos in that they made you more anxious. perhaps the alcohol-induced damage to your system has made you sensitive to this class of drugs.***
Now I'm off them nearly six weeks I feel I don't need them. The mental addiction is still with me but I'm sure that will go in time.
*** i wish you well. ****
>
> Crazychickuk the difference between Xanax and Valium is Xanax is extremely potent and has a very short half life, Valium is nowhere near as potent (10mg of Valium is equivalent to 0.5mg of Xanax)*** actually, the relative potency is that 5 mg diazepam is ``equivalent'' to 0.5 mg alprazolam. you are of my a factor of two (2). let me know if you want the reference. besides, the manufacturer reports that typical doses for panic disorder ranges from 1 to 10 mg/day xanax, and that most cases respond to doses of 3-6 mg/day. for diazepam, for the ``management of anxiety disorders and relief of symptoms of anxiety,'' the manufacturer recommends doses ranging from 4 to 40 mg/day. i have hardly erred egregiously in my recommendation.***
and has a much longer half life. Valium in higher doses can also be hypnotic and is a muscle relaxant. Xanax would be a better choice for your condition.
**** i agree that xanax would be a better choice, and in the dose i specified. just my opinion.*****
Posted by chemist on August 2, 2004, at 22:19:25
In reply to Re: DIFFERENCE PLEASE? XANAX vs VALIUM ? » chemist, posted by Impermanence on August 2, 2004, at 21:12:34
in re: the ``equivalence'' of xanax/valium that you mistakenly report to be 1:20 (it is 1:10): it's from dr. bob's link on benzodiazepine equivalence. i do have another ref on hand, but you might want to check out the resources here before insulting me again.
i feel hurt and put down by your ineptitude (failure to provide accurate information), your insulting remarks (implying that i am ``crazy''), your equating doses of a benzodiazepine and a triazolobenzodiazepine incorrectly,
and the tarnish that you have left on recovered alcoholics and substance-abusers everywhere, as some of my closest friends are alcoholics and/or abusers of substances. i feel hurt to see them in the same light as i see you. i really, really feel hurt and insulted by these things. i really do not know what to say or do: i feel so very hurt by your statements. may i ask why you are so angry with me? all the best, chemist
Posted by jlbl2l on August 2, 2004, at 23:30:19
In reply to Re: DIFFERENCE PLEASE? XANAX vs VALIUM ? » Impermanence, posted by chemist on August 2, 2004, at 21:56:25
i also think its irresponsible to rec. long term benzos so up front to people, especially in those REDICULOUSLY high dosages. Maybe you have tolerance, but these other people dont..
Posted by Viridis on August 3, 2004, at 2:15:37
In reply to DIFFERENCE PLEASE? XANAX vs VALIUM ?, posted by crazychickuk on August 2, 2004, at 17:55:39
What about clonazepam (Klonopin; Rivotril in some countries)? Many people find it very effective for serious anxiety problems (especially panic attacks), and seem to be able to stay at the same dose for years. I have, and it's been a huge help, with no side effects at all except for a bit of drowsiness in the first week or so.
Xanax is great, and I still take it occasionally for really stressful situations, but if I take it often at all I seem to develop tolerance and need much more to achieve the same effect. That may just be me, but in general, Xanax is considered much more of a problem re: dependency and dose escalation than Klonopin, although it is a wonderful drug.
I really dislike Valium -- it makes me feel "drugged out" (in an unpleasant way) and sleepy. Maybe I just haven't given it enough of a chance, but I'll take Klonopin over it any day.
Posted by Sad Panda on August 3, 2004, at 5:26:06
In reply to and one more thing.... » Impermanence, posted by chemist on August 2, 2004, at 22:19:25
I agree with Chemist, especially since he knows CC's problems pretty well & knows that she can't tolerate AD's & can't get any kind of talk thearpy out of the UK health system.
Alcohol & Barbiturates is definately a very poor answer!
Cheers,
Panda.
Posted by chemist on August 3, 2004, at 5:43:25
In reply to I agree with Chemist! :), posted by Sad Panda on August 3, 2004, at 5:26:06
Posted by chemist on August 3, 2004, at 5:48:02
In reply to Re: DIFFERENCE PLEASE? XANAX vs VALIUM ?, posted by jlbl2l on August 2, 2004, at 23:30:19
...or is this a real post? all the best, chemist
Posted by chemist on August 3, 2004, at 5:50:14
In reply to Re: DIFFERENCE PLEASE? XANAX vs VALIUM ? » crazychickuk, posted by Viridis on August 3, 2004, at 2:15:37
Posted by owenus32 on August 3, 2004, at 7:04:10
In reply to a great alternative, in my opinion... (nm) » Viridis, posted by chemist on August 3, 2004, at 5:50:14
I disagree with Impermanence. I am 7 years sober in AA and I have teaken zanax one mg per day and never abused it and then withdrew from it. I am now taking Klonopin. The fervor with which many AA's are against RX is baseless. In the Book "Alcoholics Anonymous" Bill and friends clearly say WE ARE NOT DOCTORS and the people I know who have truly taken on the cognitive /Spiritual part of the program (12 steps) say this is between you and God or that's your decison if, I'm just a crazy drunk like you asking me for medical advice is like asking yourself. For me, it is a question of being truly honest with yourself which is sometimes very hard (we can deny or ratiuonalize anything soemtimes) but the point is new people in AA may be particularly fervent about things because they're life literally depends on being that way or you can slip
Posted by chemist on August 3, 2004, at 7:56:55
In reply to Re: a great alternative, in my opinion..., posted by owenus32 on August 3, 2004, at 7:04:10
> I disagree with Impermanence. I am 7 years sober in AA and I have teaken zanax one mg per day and never abused it and then withdrew from it. I am now taking Klonopin. The fervor with which many AA's are against RX is baseless. In the Book "Alcoholics Anonymous" Bill and friends clearly say WE ARE NOT DOCTORS and the people I know who have truly taken on the cognitive /Spiritual part of the program (12 steps) say this is between you and God or that's your decison if, I'm just a crazy drunk like you asking me for medical advice is like asking yourself. For me, it is a question of being truly honest with yourself which is sometimes very hard (we can deny or ratiuonalize anything soemtimes) but the point is new people in AA may be particularly fervent about things because they're life literally depends on being that way or you can slip
hello there, chemist here...your post is quite impressive not because i am collecting ``supporters'' of my stance (which i do not think you are endorsing, but rather pointing out a different approach than impermanence), but rather because you weathered a tough time and have shown that a person can indeed use benzos over a long time and improve the quality of their life. and your point about time spent in AA (for which i have no personal experience, thus i cannot truly relate) seems to be logically valid, in my opinion. regardless, congrats on your recovery and addressing whatever comes your way without resorting to escalating/abusing meds....i do wish you well, and all the best, chemist
Posted by Slinky on August 3, 2004, at 8:23:37
In reply to Re: a great alternative, in my opinion... » owenus32, posted by chemist on August 3, 2004, at 7:56:55
Hi CC
I asked my pdoc about xanax once..it is prescribed but I'm sure you have to pay for it privately...but maybe not now.
Klonopin is available on nhs.
I'm going to look at a site and have a look.
BTW zoloft made me crazy on start up..it didn't do that when i first took it 7 ? years ago.
Posted by Slinky on August 3, 2004, at 8:33:43
In reply to Re: CC, posted by Slinky on August 3, 2004, at 8:23:37
This is klonopin (US name)clohttp://www.bnf.org/bnf/bnf/current/noframes/3608.htm
This xanax..the NHS box is crossed out so you'd have to pay
http://www.bnf.org/bnf/bnf/current/noframes/3174.htm
Posted by crazychickuk on August 3, 2004, at 9:13:35
In reply to Re: klonopin/xanax in UK, posted by Slinky on August 3, 2004, at 8:33:43
Wow thanks guys... i guess if i can get xanax on prescription tommorrow i will get it and take it. obviousley i wont be taking alot of it.. i would never take no more than 10 mg a day of valuim either...
thanks again guys...
Posted by chemist on August 3, 2004, at 9:27:07
In reply to Re: XANAX OR VALIUM ?, posted by crazychickuk on August 3, 2004, at 9:13:35
> Wow thanks guys... i guess if i can get xanax on prescription tommorrow i will get it and take it. obviousley i wont be taking alot of it.. i would never take no more than 10 mg a day of valuim either...
>
> thanks again guys...hello there, chemist here...your post appears to indicate that you will try to keep the xanax use to a minimum, and that is a goal that is appropriate. given that 10 mg diazepam has failed you in the past - and that roughly 1 mg xanax ``equates'' to 10 mg diazepam - you should discuss with your doctor a daily dose of nothing less than 1 mg xanax. please do let us know how things work out for you, and if xanax fails, do examine in consult with your doctors the alternatives offered in this thread (and others in re: anxiety/panic), with the exception of alcohol + barbiturates. all the best, chemist
Posted by Dr. Bob on August 3, 2004, at 11:13:46
In reply to are you hallucinating? » jlbl2l, posted by chemist on August 3, 2004, at 5:48:02
> I think it's very irresponsible of you ... thats just crazy, why not just drink a bottle of vodka a day too and throw in a few barbiturates for good measure!!
>
> Impermanence> your assertion ... in insulting to me. besides, you're an alcoholic who also had a hard time getting off of benzos... in my opinion, your judgement has been clouded by your addiction to alcohol and benzodiazepines. alcohol + barbituates being recommended by you is irresponsible, dangerous, and reads like a command.
> your ineptitude ... your insulting remarks ... the tarnish that you have left on recovered alcoholics and substance-abusers everywhere
> are you hallucinating?
>
> chemist> i also think its irresponsible
>
> jlbl2lPlease don't be sarcastic or post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down.
Impermanence and jlbl2l: I've asked you to be civil before, so now I'm going to block you from posting for a week. Chemist: the last time you were blocked, it was for 1 week, so this time I'm making it for 2.
If any of you have any questions or comments about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
or email me, or redirect a follow-up to Psycho-Babble Administration after your blocks are over.
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by Fred23 on August 3, 2004, at 17:58:53
In reply to DIFFERENCE PLEASE? XANAX vs VALIUM ?, posted by crazychickuk on August 2, 2004, at 17:55:39
> i just want a benzo for a while to control my anxiety/panick attacks etc...
In your same question in a thread that drew no repsonses, I made a small comment that Ativan may be a better choice than Xanax. It is "gentler" than Xanax, and doesn't seem to have the bad effects that some attribute to Valium.
Posted by Dr. Bob on August 3, 2004, at 18:18:57
In reply to Re: blocked » Impermanence » jlbl2l » chemist, posted by Dr. Bob on August 3, 2004, at 11:13:46
> If any of you have any questions or comments about this or about posting policies in general ... please ... redirect a follow-up to Psycho-Babble Administration
Here's a link:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20040717/msgs/373741.html
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by Deesent on August 20, 2004, at 13:08:30
In reply to Re: a great alternative, in my opinion... » owenus32, posted by chemist on August 3, 2004, at 7:56:55
I have been taking the regular "immediate" release Xanax tablets .25 mg about every 4 hours (appx. 1.5 mg day) for the past 10+ years. My doc prescribed Xanax XR 1 mg. once per day. Does anybody know if this really works for 24 hours? I am so used to taking them in divided doses, it is going to feel weird to take only one a day, however it sounds so much easier. I took my first one today and so far so good.
I have been probably on most AD's and have had adverse side effects, although I was able to take Serzone. Had to get off of it though, because they were pulling it off the market.
Any comments would be appreciated.
Posted by theo on August 20, 2004, at 13:48:45
In reply to Xanax vs Xanax XR, posted by Deesent on August 20, 2004, at 13:08:30
My doc prescribed 1mg Xanax XR to me twice daily (every 12 hours) because it does not last 24 hours.
Posted by tipper on September 27, 2004, at 23:53:33
In reply to Xanax vs Xanax XR, posted by Deesent on August 20, 2004, at 13:08:30
> I have been taking the regular "immediate" release Xanax tablets .25 mg about every 4 hours (appx. 1.5 mg day) for the past 10+ years. My doc prescribed Xanax XR 1 mg. once per day. Does anybody know if this really works for 24 hours? I am so used to taking them in divided doses, it is going to feel weird to take only one a day, however it sounds so much easier. I took my first one today and so far so good.
>
> I have been probably on most AD's and have had adverse side effects, although I was able to take Serzone. Had to get off of it though, because they were pulling it off the market.
>
> Any comments would be appreciated.I have been taking 1MG of Xanax XR and find it is working wonders and much better than taking 2 or 3 .5 mg tablets a day. I am taking it along with 20 mg of Lexapro and find that it all but stops the anticipatory anxiety and panic attacks. Hope this helps.
This is the end of the thread.
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