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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by gardenergirl on July 4, 2004, at 11:02:14
Hello,
I am on 60 mg of Nardil and have been for several months. If I'm not on 60, I take 45 mg. My usual side effect profile includes hyperreflexia, mild urinary retention, and occasional insomnia. I have had the following side effects, but they have since gone away: anorgasmia, constipation, myoclonic jerks, and "nardil shuffle" (only lasted 2-3 days).Lately, I have had a few incidents when I get out of my car. I start to walk and notice two things: my ears feel clogged and are ringing slightly, and my legs feel heavy and weak. I do not feel like I am going to pass out...no narrowing of vision or lightheadedness. I do feel as if I can't keep walking if the symptoms keep up, as I feel too weak in the legs. And the ear thing is quite odd.
This has only happened after driving, but in 3 different cars (long story...car was totalled). Hmmm, as I write that, maybe it didn't start until after the wreck, where I did hit my left temple on the window, but was essentially unhurt.
Anyway, I've never had orthostatic hypotension to the best of my knowledge. Is this what that feels like? Any thoughts on what might be going on? Is it the Nardil?
Thanks in advance...
gg
Posted by cosis on July 4, 2004, at 12:17:23
In reply to new symptoms...is it the Nardil?, posted by gardenergirl on July 4, 2004, at 11:02:14
> Hello,
> I am on 60 mg of Nardil and have been for several months. If I'm not on 60, I take 45 mg. My usual side effect profile includes hyperreflexia, mild urinary retention, and occasional insomnia. I have had the following side effects, but they have since gone away: anorgasmia, constipation, myoclonic jerks, and "nardil shuffle" (only lasted 2-3 days).
>
> Lately, I have had a few incidents when I get out of my car. I start to walk and notice two things: my ears feel clogged and are ringing slightly, and my legs feel heavy and weak. I do not feel like I am going to pass out...no narrowing of vision or lightheadedness. I do feel as if I can't keep walking if the symptoms keep up, as I feel too weak in the legs. And the ear thing is quite odd.
>
> This has only happened after driving, but in 3 different cars (long story...car was totalled). Hmmm, as I write that, maybe it didn't start until after the wreck, where I did hit my left temple on the window, but was essentially unhurt.
>
> Anyway, I've never had orthostatic hypotension to the best of my knowledge. Is this what that feels like? Any thoughts on what might be going on? Is it the Nardil?
>
> Thanks in advance...
>
> gg
Hi,I remember having that problem with my ears a long time ago while on Nardil, it went away though......
Oh yeah sometimes all the sudden I just like go into another world, it's weird, then I snap out of it and I am like what just happened??
I call this "zoning out"........ still happens after 3 years on Nardil
nick
Posted by cosis on July 4, 2004, at 12:19:37
In reply to Re: new symptoms...is it the Nardil?, posted by cosis on July 4, 2004, at 12:17:23
> > Hello,
> > I am on 60 mg of Nardil and have been for several months. If I'm not on 60, I take 45 mg. My usual side effect profile includes hyperreflexia, mild urinary retention, and occasional insomnia. I have had the following side effects, but they have since gone away: anorgasmia, constipation, myoclonic jerks, and "nardil shuffle" (only lasted 2-3 days).
> >
> > Lately, I have had a few incidents when I get out of my car. I start to walk and notice two things: my ears feel clogged and are ringing slightly, and my legs feel heavy and weak. I do not feel like I am going to pass out...no narrowing of vision or lightheadedness. I do feel as if I can't keep walking if the symptoms keep up, as I feel too weak in the legs. And the ear thing is quite odd.
> >
> > This has only happened after driving, but in 3 different cars (long story...car was totalled). Hmmm, as I write that, maybe it didn't start until after the wreck, where I did hit my left temple on the window, but was essentially unhurt.
> >
> > Anyway, I've never had orthostatic hypotension to the best of my knowledge. Is this what that feels like? Any thoughts on what might be going on? Is it the Nardil?
> >
> > Thanks in advance...
> >
> > gg
>
>
> Hi,
>
> I remember having that problem with my ears a long time ago while on Nardil, it went away though......
>
> Oh yeah sometimes all the sudden I just like go into another world, it's weird, then I snap out of it and I am like what just happened??
>
> I call this "zoning out"........ still happens after 3 years on Nardil
>
> nick
>I have fell asleep behind the wheel also, luckily my sister was with me and woke me up at the time.... I find that part the most scary... but now whenever I feel like I might fall asleep while driving I stop and get out and walk around and then I am good to go
nick
Posted by bluebird on July 4, 2004, at 13:01:19
In reply to Re: new symptoms...is it the Nardil?, posted by cosis on July 4, 2004, at 12:19:37
> > > Hello,
> > > I am on 60 mg of Nardil and have been for several months. If I'm not on 60, I take 45 mg. My usual side effect profile includes hyperreflexia, mild urinary retention, and occasional insomnia. I have had the following side effects, but they have since gone away: anorgasmia, constipation, myoclonic jerks, and "nardil shuffle" (only lasted 2-3 days).
> > >
> > > Lately, I have had a few incidents when I get out of my car. I start to walk and notice two things: my ears feel clogged and are ringing slightly, and my legs feel heavy and weak. I do not feel like I am going to pass out...no narrowing of vision or lightheadedness. I do feel as if I can't keep walking if the symptoms keep up, as I feel too weak in the legs. And the ear thing is quite odd.
> > >
> > > This has only happened after driving, but in 3 different cars (long story...car was totalled). Hmmm, as I write that, maybe it didn't start until after the wreck, where I did hit my left temple on the window, but was essentially unhurt.
> > >
> > > Anyway, I've never had orthostatic hypotension to the best of my knowledge. Is this what that feels like? Any thoughts on what might be going on? Is it the Nardil?
> > >
> > > Thanks in advance...
> > >
> > > gg
> >
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > I remember having that problem with my ears a long time ago while on Nardil, it went away though......
> >
> > Oh yeah sometimes all the sudden I just like go into another world, it's weird, then I snap out of it and I am like what just happened??
> >
> > I call this "zoning out"........ still happens after 3 years on Nardil
> >
> > nick
> >
>
> I have fell asleep behind the wheel also, luckily my sister was with me and woke me up at the time.... I find that part the most scary... but now whenever I feel like I might fall asleep while driving I stop and get out and walk around and then I am good to go
>
> nickNick, If you don't mind me asking what do you take Nardil for and have you tried Parnate? I have severe SAD and avoid most situations if possible. It is better since on Paxil but only about 50% I would say. For me that is a big improvement. Do you find that Nardil is difficult to take because of the restrictions and do you get to where you have to go up on the dosage because you get use to it. Like it gets to where it isn't effective so you have to up the dose? thanks, bluebird
Posted by cosis on July 4, 2004, at 15:32:39
In reply to Re: new symptoms...is it the Nardil?, posted by bluebird on July 4, 2004, at 13:01:19
> > > > Hello,
> > > > I am on 60 mg of Nardil and have been for several months. If I'm not on 60, I take 45 mg. My usual side effect profile includes hyperreflexia, mild urinary retention, and occasional insomnia. I have had the following side effects, but they have since gone away: anorgasmia, constipation, myoclonic jerks, and "nardil shuffle" (only lasted 2-3 days).
> > > >
> > > > Lately, I have had a few incidents when I get out of my car. I start to walk and notice two things: my ears feel clogged and are ringing slightly, and my legs feel heavy and weak. I do not feel like I am going to pass out...no narrowing of vision or lightheadedness. I do feel as if I can't keep walking if the symptoms keep up, as I feel too weak in the legs. And the ear thing is quite odd.
> > > >
> > > > This has only happened after driving, but in 3 different cars (long story...car was totalled). Hmmm, as I write that, maybe it didn't start until after the wreck, where I did hit my left temple on the window, but was essentially unhurt.
> > > >
> > > > Anyway, I've never had orthostatic hypotension to the best of my knowledge. Is this what that feels like? Any thoughts on what might be going on? Is it the Nardil?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks in advance...
> > > >
> > > > gg
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I remember having that problem with my ears a long time ago while on Nardil, it went away though......
> > >
> > > Oh yeah sometimes all the sudden I just like go into another world, it's weird, then I snap out of it and I am like what just happened??
> > >
> > > I call this "zoning out"........ still happens after 3 years on Nardil
> > >
> > > nick
> > >
> >
> > I have fell asleep behind the wheel also, luckily my sister was with me and woke me up at the time.... I find that part the most scary... but now whenever I feel like I might fall asleep while driving I stop and get out and walk around and then I am good to go
> >
> > nick
>
> Nick, If you don't mind me asking what do you take Nardil for and have you tried Parnate? I have severe SAD and avoid most situations if possible. It is better since on Paxil but only about 50% I would say. For me that is a big improvement. Do you find that Nardil is difficult to take because of the restrictions and do you get to where you have to go up on the dosage because you get use to it. Like it gets to where it isn't effective so you have to up the dose? thanks, bluebirdHi,
I take 75mg/day for severe SAD, with associated mild depression. I was thinking of trying Parnate at one point but decided to stay on Nardil because I finally was able to lose the weight I gained while on it. Sometimes I bounce up to 90mg but that effects with anorgasmia and more sweet cravings so I try to stay at 75mg.... 75mg seems to work pretty well for me, I still have some mild SAD/Depression but nowhere near what it was. I was at the point where I wouldn't leave the apartment about 3 years ago.....
Posted by gardenergirl on July 4, 2004, at 22:42:35
In reply to Re: new symptoms...is it the Nardil?, posted by cosis on July 4, 2004, at 12:19:37
> > > Lately, I have had a few incidents when I get out of my car. I start to walk and notice two things: my ears feel clogged and are ringing slightly, and my legs feel heavy and weak. I do not feel like I am going to pass out...no narrowing of vision or lightheadedness. I do feel as if I can't keep walking if the symptoms keep up, as I feel too weak in the legs. And the ear thing is quite odd.
> > >
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > I remember having that problem with my ears a long time ago while on Nardil, it went away though......
> >
> > Oh yeah sometimes all the sudden I just like go into another world, it's weird, then I snap out of it and I am like what just happened??
> >
> > I call this "zoning out"........ still happens after 3 years on Nardil
> >
> > nick
> >
>
> I have fell asleep behind the wheel also, luckily my sister was with me and woke me up at the time.... I find that part the most scary... but now whenever I feel like I might fall asleep while driving I stop and get out and walk around and then I am good to go
>
> nickThanks for your response, cosis. Yikes, I'm glad you are able to catch that feeling before you get into trouble with the car. I haven't had anything like that, but I do find that in the evenings right after dinner (I take 3rd dose at 6:00 pm) I get unbearably sleepy a lot. If I go ahead and doze, then my sleep is of course messed up later in the night.
Can't say that I've had any zoning out experiences. About your ear thing...did it happen early with taking Naril or later. I've been on it for about 9 months now, I think. It's odd to develop a side effect that late...at least it seems odd. Also, did your ears feel clogged like a pressure/altitude change or a cold? Or just ringing?
Thanks,
gg
Posted by cosis on July 5, 2004, at 13:27:17
In reply to Re: new symptoms...is it the Nardil? » cosis, posted by gardenergirl on July 4, 2004, at 22:42:35
> > > > Lately, I have had a few incidents when I get out of my car. I start to walk and notice two things: my ears feel clogged and are ringing slightly, and my legs feel heavy and weak. I do not feel like I am going to pass out...no narrowing of vision or lightheadedness. I do feel as if I can't keep walking if the symptoms keep up, as I feel too weak in the legs. And the ear thing is quite odd.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I remember having that problem with my ears a long time ago while on Nardil, it went away though......
> > >
> > > Oh yeah sometimes all the sudden I just like go into another world, it's weird, then I snap out of it and I am like what just happened??
> > >
> > > I call this "zoning out"........ still happens after 3 years on Nardil
> > >
> > > nick
> > >
> >
> > I have fell asleep behind the wheel also, luckily my sister was with me and woke me up at the time.... I find that part the most scary... but now whenever I feel like I might fall asleep while driving I stop and get out and walk around and then I am good to go
> >
> > nick
>
> Thanks for your response, cosis. Yikes, I'm glad you are able to catch that feeling before you get into trouble with the car. I haven't had anything like that, but I do find that in the evenings right after dinner (I take 3rd dose at 6:00 pm) I get unbearably sleepy a lot. If I go ahead and doze, then my sleep is of course messed up later in the night.
>
> Can't say that I've had any zoning out experiences. About your ear thing...did it happen early with taking Naril or later. I've been on it for about 9 months now, I think. It's odd to develop a side effect that late...at least it seems odd. Also, did your ears feel clogged like a pressure/altitude change or a cold? Or just ringing?
>
> Thanks,
>
> ggHi
It is sorta hard to remember, I think it was kind of like the feeling your ears get during an altitude change. It was probably sometime during the later part of the first year in taking Nardil. But yes it did go away, I can't remember the last time it happened to me. I find it very easy to fall asleep on Nardil, even just when I am sitting in my office chair and dose off. I use to have trouble sleeping because I could never stop thinking before I went to bed but now I do not think nearly as much and usually fall asleep very quickly..........
nick
Posted by King Vultan on July 5, 2004, at 15:29:11
In reply to new symptoms...is it the Nardil?, posted by gardenergirl on July 4, 2004, at 11:02:14
> Hello,
> I am on 60 mg of Nardil and have been for several months. If I'm not on 60, I take 45 mg. My usual side effect profile includes hyperreflexia, mild urinary retention, and occasional insomnia. I have had the following side effects, but they have since gone away: anorgasmia, constipation, myoclonic jerks, and "nardil shuffle" (only lasted 2-3 days).
>
> Lately, I have had a few incidents when I get out of my car. I start to walk and notice two things: my ears feel clogged and are ringing slightly, and my legs feel heavy and weak. I do not feel like I am going to pass out...no narrowing of vision or lightheadedness. I do feel as if I can't keep walking if the symptoms keep up, as I feel too weak in the legs. And the ear thing is quite odd.
>
> This has only happened after driving, but in 3 different cars (long story...car was totalled). Hmmm, as I write that, maybe it didn't start until after the wreck, where I did hit my left temple on the window, but was essentially unhurt.
>
> Anyway, I've never had orthostatic hypotension to the best of my knowledge. Is this what that feels like? Any thoughts on what might be going on? Is it the Nardil?
>
> Thanks in advance...
>
> gg
Yes, it is the Nardil because I am on 90 mg/day and am suffering the same blasted side effects. I've been having the ear ringing recently, not just after riding in cars but in certain other situations, and I've had several instances of the leg weakness after driving for a while and then getting out of the car and starting to walk (sometimes it does not hit me until I've walked 50 yards or more, though). In my case, my legs become weak and start quivering, and it does feel like I'm going to pass out. What I then do is to crouch down with my head leaning forward to help the sensation go away and forestall injuries from a fall. FWIW, I've also had it hit me after sitting for an extended time in a restaurant or meeting. Climbing stairs also seems to be a problem and can induce the ear ringing thing, too.Todd
Posted by Racer on July 6, 2004, at 1:17:14
In reply to Re: new symptoms...is it the Nardil? » gardenergirl, posted by King Vultan on July 5, 2004, at 15:29:11
That thought hit me when I first read GG's post, but once I read yours, too, I have to ask: could your blood pressure be falling? I've read that hypotension can be a real problem on Nardil, and what you've described sounds a lot like what I experience with hypotension.
Now, I've got naturally low blood pressure, which runs in my family, but mine is especially problematic. As well as the normal-for-me low BP, mine will occassionally just -- fall. Generally, I know the things that can bring it on: sitting in one place for a longish time, standing in one place for a longish time without a lot of movement (one reason I look like a fidgety kid a lot: when I start to feel it, I'll start tensing my leg muscles to try to get my blood moving again), driving longish periods, etc. Climbing stairs when this is happening can definitely bring it on, and -- I love this part -- certain types of stresses will drop my BP pretty dramatically. (I know, stress is supposed to ELEVATE blood pressure -- guess I just gotta be different...)
So, could it be low blood pressure that's causing your symptoms?
Other than that, I ain't got no clue. But I do wish you all the best luck in tracking it down and getting it fixed.
My best to you both
Posted by gardenergirl on July 6, 2004, at 7:37:27
In reply to Have you checked your BP? » King Vultan, posted by Racer on July 6, 2004, at 1:17:14
Thanks to everyone who posted. I'm glad that for those who have had the same experience that it eventually went away or you learned how to deal with it.
I'm starting to think it is BP related. Mostly this seems to happen on hot days, as well, which might affect my BP. I haven't had a chance to test it. Last time it happened I had access to a cuff, but had to sit down to put it together first. The symptoms passed before I could take a reading. I might keep it in my car when I have longer drives and test it just before I get out and once I am up and walking.
Think I'll look really weird walking around with a BP cuff hanging on my arm? :)
Thanks again,
gg
Posted by King Vultan on July 6, 2004, at 9:35:26
In reply to Have you checked your BP? » King Vultan, posted by Racer on July 6, 2004, at 1:17:14
I believe the problem has something to do with the combination of lowered BP and heart rate--probably more with the lowered heart rate because I also had a fairly low BP last year on both desipramine and protriptyline. However, the heart rate was higher on those two drugs due to the reflex tachycardia that is a characteristic of tricyclic ADs. While I did suffer orthostatic hypotension, I did not have this weird weakness thing I'm experiencing on the Nardil.
Normal (unmedicated) BP 140/90 Pulse 75
Nardil.......................... BP 105/65 Pulse 55
desipramine................. BP 110/70 Pulse 90
Todd
Posted by harryp on July 6, 2004, at 10:15:16
In reply to Re: Have you checked your BP? » Racer, posted by King Vultan on July 6, 2004, at 9:35:26
This definitely sounds like hypotension to me. I've experienced it before from a bad drug reaction at an optometry school, and the terrified OD called the opthomologist, who explained to a large crowd of people (while I was getting tunnel vision!) how peripheral vasodialation had caused a sudden drop of BP, with weakness, ear ringing, feel faint etc.
I would check your BP regularly with one of the good automatic machines available now. You can usually plug them in or use them on batteries, so take it with you in your car.
Just FYI, pulse rate often doesn't correspond to BP. You don't really need to worry about pulse unless it is excessively low or high. BP is the deciding factor in symptoms like these.
If it continues to be a problem, I'd see a cardiologist about any simple ways you could safely keep your bp within normal range. If the Nardil is working for you, you SHOULD NOT stop it unless there is no other safe option. Finding an AD that works is hard enough!
Posted by gardenergirl on July 6, 2004, at 10:57:14
In reply to Re: Have you checked your BP?, posted by harryp on July 6, 2004, at 10:15:16
I absolutely agree. My mother tells me to "get off of that c*ap" when I mention a side effect. (Duh, time to stop telling her, eh?). But this is the only AD that has had an effective response, so I have not yet found an SE that I cannot tolerate. And most of them are either mild or even have gone away in time.
I will definitely check my BP and see what's going on. Hopefully it is a passing thing, but if not, I'll visit the doc.
Take care,
gg
Posted by luther on August 26, 2004, at 1:20:52
In reply to new symptoms...is it the Nardil?, posted by gardenergirl on July 4, 2004, at 11:02:14
Yes it is. When I began taking the old Nardil in 93 I had the same symptoms and was taking 90mg and 15mg Valium for GAD. Getting dizzy upon standing will go away in about 6 months. The best you can do now is not stand up too fast. The anorgasmia, weight gain and urinary retention, myclonic jerks, occasional insomnia and occasional fatigue will not and are a part of living with Nardil. I found taking 100mg Neurontin will boost the effect of Nardil and get rid of fatigue. Just be thankful you are a woman and not have to deal with the ED it causes. Taking the good with the bad it litterally changed my life like someone turned on a light. It was simply amazing. That was the old Nardil. The new stuff only works about 50% as well and I'm still searching for an alternative.
Posted by gardenergirl on August 26, 2004, at 21:04:27
In reply to Re: new symptoms...is it the Nardil? » gardenergirl, posted by luther on August 26, 2004, at 1:20:52
Thanks for your response. Actually, the urinary retention, myoclonic jerks, anorgasmia, and even the weight gain (well, it's stable, haven't lost the weight)have gone away in time. They just seem to come back with an increase in dose. Of course they may stick around at a higher dose, but I don't know. Even the insomnia got better to the point that I was back to sleeping late again, which wasn't so good.
I never took the old Nardil, so I didn't have the experience switching that you and others did. Sorry y'all had to go through that.
Interesting, my doc. attributes the dizziness to a recent car accident I had when I hit my temple on the window. I wonder if it's not related to low blood sugar. But it could still be orthostatic hypotension. It's just odd that it only happens in the car.
Regards,
gg
Posted by luther on August 28, 2004, at 2:26:50
In reply to Re: new symptoms...is it the Nardil? » luther, posted by gardenergirl on August 26, 2004, at 21:04:27
Hi There,
I didn't think to tell you about the symptoms of the new Nardil, they are much less severe. I also think it doesn't work nearly as well as the old, but it depends on ones perspective. Are you willing to trade less effectiveness for less side-effects? Since you never took the old, you don't know the difference which is good. So it may work as well for you as the old did for me since I was adjusted to it, if that makes any sense? Good Luck, sounds as if you know what you are doing.
Sincerely,
Brian
This is the end of the thread.
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