![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 3 of 3. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Tony C. on June 29, 2004, at 13:53:55
Hello all, I will tell you right now, before my Major Depression hit me. I had a DULL STARE, SLOW HEART BEAT, HOARSE VOICE, EYEBROWS ARE THIN OR GONE ON OUTER EDGES, MUSCLE ACHES PARTICULARLY IN MY SHOULDERS AND BEHIND MY NECK, LOW BODY TEMPERATURE, I HAD DEPRESSION TO A DEGREE, ANXIETY, FOOD INTOLERANCES, DIMINISHED LIBIDO then WHAMO !!! It brought me down to the vegatative SUICIDAL episode I had, Major Insomnia etc. My point is. I had a TON of the actual Hypo Thyroid symptoms, there is to have PLUS when It hit me I went into overdrive pouning heart etc. But at that time my TSH cameback 5.9 I believe it was even higher. I just told my current Doctor how I think Serzone/Nefazodone has MASKED my REAL underlying problem. He said "NO" Serzone would not make you fell better and make your TSH 2.2 .... I mean poeple please help me, can it mask Hypo Thyroidism ? I mean if it can, I want Synthroid. My Dad is Hypo Thyroid, my Mom was, My Grandmother is, my Dad's Aunt is, it is in the family. I just know that there is an underlying thing here, and the Serzone/Nefazodone is correcting it to a degree and I would bet my bottom dollar that is why I fell withdrawl no matter how low or slow I go I start to stare out in space. DEPRESSION can be related to Under Active Thyroid, I believe anxiety can also. My Previous Doctor suspected I was Hypo Thyroid, but was baffled why the TSH kept coming back fine. People PLEASE help determine if I may me suffering on controversial Serzone/Nefazodone when all I need is Synthroid.
DESPERATE for Answers - Tony C.
Posted by florence on June 29, 2004, at 16:37:34
In reply to HELP ME !!! SERZONE MASKING HYPO THROIDISM ???, posted by Tony C. on June 29, 2004, at 13:53:55
>I will share what I know from doing 6 months of research on the internet. The American Assoc. of Clinical Endocrinologists changed the TSH scale in November 2002. INSTEAD of it being .05-5.0 it is NOW 0.3-3.04. I was told for YEARS that my levels were fine: I constantly complained of unrelenting fatigue. Since my sister takes Synthroid (she has depression like me) and she noticed NO difference in energy, I never pursued the thyroid component.
I am now convinced I am hypothyroid. My feet have been cold for 30 yrs. My temp is never above 97.5. etc, you know the signs.
I recently started taking Armour thyroid. It is FDA approved and is a prescription. It contains both T4 and T3. Whereas, Synthroid contains only T4. Please research thyroid meds THOROUGHLY before letting a dr put you on Synthroid. I recommend alt. support.thyroid-it is an excellent web site.
I saw a useless endocrin last week who said TSH can vary significantly by the hour. I do not know how true this is.
I tried serzone for about a week recently. I stopped becuz it made me anxious or restless and it was hard for me to go to sleep at night. Trazadone, a similar med had the same effect on me. It is SUPPOSED to be very sedating.
Thyroid meds can interact with oral anticoagulants;insulin;cholestyramine or colestipol; estragen and oral contraceptives.
Perhaps some of the more intelligent people on the board can interpret the following: "Ultram is an opiod like morphine and may increase your norepinephrine level, and Armour thyroid (maybe Synthroid, too) has probably increased the density of beta-adrenergic receptors on your cell membranes. These 2 effects of the medications may be interacting to cause rapid heart rate. It is the increase in the NE level that is of most concern regarding heart rates. An increase in NE would probably raise the heart rate."
Ultram- the chemical structure is similar to that of Antidepressants that increase the levels of serotonin (Prozac) and norepinephrine (Desipramine)
Many top docs agree that people with depression need the TSH in the 1-2 range but most uninformed drs don't think outside the box about this.
FWIW, I had been taking Armour thyroid for over 3 months. When I started Serzone, I started getting rapid heart beat especially when I woke up in the morning. I quit serzone a few weeks ago but I am still having the rapid heart rate in the morning;so I surmise that serzone is still in my system a bit.
I suggest you find a dr who is willing to work with you and ALWAYS request a COPY of your lab results. I am not sure if adding a thyroid med will help with Serzone; but thyroid meds "have been used for decades by psychiatrists to augment antidepressant treatments that weren't completely effective (without known hypothyroidism being present)
Hope I didn't totally confuse you. I cannot function very well lately. I can try to answer other questions, if you are new to the thyoid junk: T3, T4, Synthroid, Armour, Dr. Peter Whybrow, Dr Alan Cohan; free T3 levels,. I just HAVE to close with this thought: I have read MANY good things about Armour thyroid: people who feel "screwed" by their drs for years becuz they were given Synthroid and felt MUCH better after switching to Armour thyroid.Hello all, I will tell you right now, before my Major Depression hit me. I had a DULL STARE, SLOW HEART BEAT, HOARSE VOICE, EYEBROWS ARE THIN OR GONE ON OUTER EDGES, MUSCLE ACHES PARTICULARLY IN MY SHOULDERS AND BEHIND MY NECK, LOW BODY TEMPERATURE, I HAD DEPRESSION TO A DEGREE, ANXIETY, FOOD INTOLERANCES, DIMINISHED LIBIDO then WHAMO !!! It brought me down to the vegatative SUICIDAL episode I had, Major Insomnia etc. My point is. I had a TON of the actual Hypo Thyroid symptoms, there is to have PLUS when It hit me I went into overdrive pouning heart etc. But at that time my TSH cameback 5.9 I believe it was even higher. I just told my current Doctor how I think Serzone/Nefazodone has MASKED my REAL underlying problem. He said "NO" Serzone would not make you fell better and make your TSH 2.2 .... I mean poeple please help me, can it mask Hypo Thyroidism ? I mean if it can, I want Synthroid. My Dad is Hypo Thyroid, my Mom was, My Grandmother is, my Dad's Aunt is, it is in the family. I just know that there is an underlying thing here, and the Serzone/Nefazodone is correcting it to a degree and I would bet my bottom dollar that is why I fell withdrawl no matter how low or slow I go I start to stare out in space. DEPRESSION can be related to Under Active Thyroid, I believe anxiety can also. My Previous Doctor suspected I was Hypo Thyroid, but was baffled why the TSH kept coming back fine. People PLEASE help determine if I may me suffering on controversial Serzone/Nefazodone when all I need is Synthroid.
>
> DESPERATE for Answers - Tony C.
Posted by barbaracat on June 29, 2004, at 19:28:53
In reply to HELP ME !!! SERZONE MASKING HYPO THROIDISM ???, posted by Tony C. on June 29, 2004, at 13:53:55
Have you tried taking your temperature throughout the day? Supposedly, the standard is taking it first thing in the morning under the armpit and if it's lower than 97.8, it's suspect, but armpit temperatures can be very inaccurate. I'm hypothyroid and take natural thyroid with T3/T4, but I also take lithium which makes it worse and my levels fluctuate. I take my oral temperature periodically during the day, and when I'm feeling depressed, achy and lousy, sure enough it's lower than 98.6. Time to increase the thyroid. Just take your oral temperature. It's a good indicator. If your metabolism isn't optimal you will feel awful. But be careful with Synthroid since it only has T4. Some people can't convert T4 to the active T3 hormone and need to take T3.
As far as Serzone: it acts on a different serotonin receptor than the usual SSRI's. I recall reading something recently that implicated this alternate receptor pathway in compromising estrogen synthesis. Estrogen/serotonin/thyroid are all tied together, so your speculation may have validity.
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.