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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 21 of 21. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by linkadge on June 10, 2004, at 15:23:07
I go to the psychiatrist saying that I'm taking celexa 20mg and I am still suicidally depressed, and he prescribed trilleptal. What the heck. I suggested tricyclics, and celexa-remeron combo - nope. I travel 2 and 1/2 hours to see this great psychiatrist, and he prescribes me a mood stabalizer. This guy is only digging my hole deeper.
I'm not even going to fill this prescription.
Linkadge
Posted by watergirl on June 10, 2004, at 15:56:01
In reply to Its over for me--Psychiatrist prescribed trilepal, posted by linkadge on June 10, 2004, at 15:23:07
Im sorry you didnt have a positive experience with your psychiatrist today.
Im by far no expert, but have a couple of comments/suggestions.
~Maybe you traveled "2.5 hours to see this great psychiatrist" because he really is a great pdoc, and has a real reason for adding the Trileptal. It might be worth a shot.
~Or, Im sorry you wasted your time, money, & effort to see a doctor that doesent seem to be listining to or understanding you.
I know it can be so diffucult and disheartening to find a good doctor. I truly wish you the best of luck.
Best Wishes,
Cindy
Posted by rod on June 10, 2004, at 16:46:16
In reply to Re: Its over for me--Psychiatrist prescribed trilepal » linkadge, posted by watergirl on June 10, 2004, at 15:56:01
>"Maybe you traveled "2.5 hours to see this great psychiatrist" because he really is a great pdoc, and has a real reason for adding the Trileptal. It might be worth a shot."
I dont wanna play pdoc here, but I have to say my opinion. As watergirl said, this pdoc might have very good reasons to do this.
I might be wrong, because I dont know the full story, but you said you have to work out for *some hours* a day, so you dont feel suicidal. This sounds very even very^2 bipolar to me. You might experience mixed states instead of full blown mania.
I think your doctor has the right view from the "outside" to see whats going on. I would give it a proper try. Just my opinion.Roland
Posted by linkadge on June 10, 2004, at 17:56:08
In reply to Re: Its over for me--Psychiatrist prescribed trile, posted by rod on June 10, 2004, at 16:46:16
I just finished a full trial of tegretol. I told the doctor straight out that it made me feel very suicidal, ending me in the hospital again. I said that it helped my attention, thats all. He said that trileptal was a more powerful mood stabalizer that would help my depression.
Linkadge
Posted by scatterbrained on June 10, 2004, at 18:16:44
In reply to but i just tried tegretol !!, posted by linkadge on June 10, 2004, at 17:56:08
If I were you I would just TRY the med, even if you don't believe it will work. theres no harm in giving it a shot,and what if it did work? How great would that be?If you don't try it, you will never know, and that would be sort of tragic.
Posted by Racer on June 10, 2004, at 20:26:12
In reply to but i just tried tegretol !!, posted by linkadge on June 10, 2004, at 17:56:08
Ugh. I'm really sorry you're feeling this way. It absolutely sux to feel that your pdoc ain't hearin' you. And trust me -- that's a song I know by heart right now.
Here's something that I'm trying to internalize right now: the 'diagnosis' doesn't matter, the treatment outcome matters. Taking a mood stabilizer makes a certain amount of sense to me, for myself, right now, even though I know that I'm not bipolar. I'm nowhere near willing to suggest any such thing to my pdoc -- ever -- because I don't trust him at all, but if he suggested it I might try it. At this point, I'm trying not to care what he thinks is wrong with me -- AS LONG AS I GET SOME RELIEF from what he prescribes.
It's true. This medication may not provide you relief. It might, though, and you won't know unless you try it. Whether or not you do is up to you.
So, instead of talking about that, what are your other options:
1. Find another pdoc, which is either an option or not an option, depending on your situation.
2. Calling your current pdoc and telling him the bottom line of what you've told us: you will not fill the prescription, because you do not believe it is going to work. (And you know something? I do believe that thinking it won't work will help it not work, you know? So, doesn't matter if it might work or not, if you believe it won't work, it probably isn't much worth trying.)
3. Calling your pdoc and saying that you need another appointment as soon as possible, because you will not take this med until he tells you EXACTLY why he thinks it might help, AND listens to your reasons for thinking it won't.
Now, this is my list of your current options as I see them, through only this bulletin board. You may see other options not listed here, or someone else might post something that is more helpful to you. But I do hope you hang in there and stay with us, and I hope you do get some relief soon.
Posted by linkadge on June 11, 2004, at 9:54:28
In reply to Re: but i just tried tegretol !! » linkadge, posted by Racer on June 10, 2004, at 20:26:12
Tegretol made me feel so crappy, that I don't even want to give trileptal it a try. I have heard of nobody whos found relief with thrileptal and not tegretol. They both just inhibit the sodium/calcium channels.
Linkadge
Posted by scatterbrained on June 11, 2004, at 11:54:07
In reply to trileptal for tegretol non responders ??, posted by linkadge on June 11, 2004, at 9:54:28
If your P-Doc is aware that you have already tried tegretol, which I assume he is, he must have a reason for trying trileptal. If your so causious about it, ask him, but don't just not fill the prescription and go see another doctor or something. I just don't understand why you don't just TRY the drug, what are you going to lose? I find this really upsetting because I used to do the same thing with meds, and I wasted a lot of time, I wasted a lot of life. I'm still depressed but better than I was before and I think I'll continue to get better as long as I don't try to prescribe the medications for myself. You give a lot of good advice at psychobabble and your obviously very intelligent but sometimes that can be a defecit becuause it makes it hard to trust other people. I really hope you reconsider and a least try the drug.
Posted by psychosage on June 11, 2004, at 12:37:16
In reply to trileptal for tegretol non responders ??, posted by linkadge on June 11, 2004, at 9:54:28
I haven't been on any mood stabilizer but trileptal, but perhaps lamictal could work for you as long as you are not on valproate at the same time since that seems to help the rash problem.
I think mood stabilizers are more subtle in their efficacy and can go unappreciated.
I would tend to think an SSRI causes more cycling and trouble for a bipolar than any mood stabilizer.
Lamictal and trileptal are supposed to be strong for bipolar depression. Controlling and stabilizing those temporal lobes are important foundations for any psychiatric treatment of the bipolar.
Maybe celexa is your problem? Ever try the Effexor/Remeron combo? Whatever you do perhaps you can augment with Ritalin to improve mood and energy if you need it.
Good luck, linkadge!
Posted by linkadge on June 11, 2004, at 12:55:15
In reply to Re: trileptal -LINKADGE, posted by psychosage on June 11, 2004, at 12:37:16
I think the power that tegretol had to nock out the temporal lobes is very decietfull. Its just like the antipsychotics. After you take them you feel better because things seem so "plain and basic", that life has to be easy right ?? Wrong.
I took celexa for a year, and got stright A's, The next semester I took tegretol. I was actually feeling good cause things seemed so basic and dull, that I just assumed it was easy, I thought I understood it. I failed every course.
Have you ever heard the term "dumb drug euphoria"
Drugs that make you dumb make you happy because they make you assume everything is plain and simple (anticholinergics, amitryptaline), and drugs that make you smart make you depressed, and psychotic, because you realize that life is not as simple as you assumed.
Temporal lobe problem, is just a nice way of saying "we're going to short circut your limbic system".
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on June 11, 2004, at 13:02:37
In reply to on the contrary, posted by linkadge on June 11, 2004, at 12:55:15
Not to mention that tegretol has absolutely no effect on neurogenesis.
Both lithium and epival enhanced neurogenesis, but tegretol had no effect. And both lithium and epival doubled BDNF in the hippocampas, while tegretol had no effect.
Tegretol just made me feel plain low, ending me up in the hospital wanting to off myself. I'm smart enough to know that trileptal is simply tegretol with fewer side effects, I'm not crazy enough to subject myself to the same thing again.
Linkadge
Posted by scatterbrained on June 11, 2004, at 13:40:55
In reply to Re: on the contrary, posted by linkadge on June 11, 2004, at 13:02:37
Again,how do you know unless you try? I'm sure your aware that nobody's 100% sure how ANY of these drugs work, it's all specultation so you can't know how your going to respond. Also, you said something about the smarter you are the more depressed you are and the dumber the more blissfull or something like that. Well, I for one would be ten times happier if I could think straight, which I can't due to this depression induced psuedo dementia. But from what your describing, cognition doesn't seem to be a problem for you. If that's the case, maybe you would benefit from therapy.I really hope you don't reject help because of fear like so many depressed people tend to do,I think that in itself can be a part of the illness.
Posted by platinumbride on June 11, 2004, at 13:59:45
In reply to Its over for me--Psychiatrist prescribed trilepal, posted by linkadge on June 10, 2004, at 15:23:07
Linkadge, I kind of agree with you and totally understand your anger. Is there any reason that he won't prescribe lamictal? I mean, tegretol and trileptal are really, really close!!!
Is this the same guy that you mentioned to me some time ago wouldn't ever prescribe you selegeline?
If you were to respond well to lamictal, you might even be able to take only it, for its AD properties as well as "mood stablization".
I hate that all of this is such an art and so little a "science"...
Anyway, sounds as if you have lost all respect for this dude. If that's the case, yeah, it's over for you.....
But I would caution you to examine your feelings about the whole thing. Be brutally honest and then move on from there. That is, regarding your feelings about the shrink himself....will you feel this way about all shrinks that don't agree with you?
But trileptal......I don't think so....
Diane
Posted by rod on June 11, 2004, at 19:52:01
In reply to on the contrary, posted by linkadge on June 11, 2004, at 12:55:15
> I think the power that tegretol had to nock out the temporal lobes is very decietfull. Its just like the antipsychotics. After you take them you feel better because things seem so "plain and basic", that life has to be easy right ?? Wrong.
>
> I took celexa for a year, and got stright A's, The next semester I took tegretol. I was actually feeling good cause things seemed so basic and dull, that I just assumed it was easy, I thought I understood it. I failed every course.
>
> Have you ever heard the term "dumb drug euphoria"
>
> Drugs that make you dumb make you happy because they make you assume everything is plain and simple (anticholinergics, amitryptaline), and drugs that make you smart make you depressed, and psychotic, because you realize that life is not as simple as you assumed.
>
> Temporal lobe problem, is just a nice way of saying "we're going to short circut your limbic system".
>
>
> Linkadge
>I got my best marks on even difficult exams, when I was on Amitriptyline, because it just worked. Made me think and concentrate again etc.
Roland
Posted by Sebastian on June 11, 2004, at 21:15:10
In reply to on the contrary, posted by linkadge on June 11, 2004, at 12:55:15
Are you wanting to increase the Celexa by any chance? Maybe the doctor didn't know this and thought the celexa was not working.
Posted by sooshi on June 11, 2004, at 21:53:35
In reply to Its over for me--Psychiatrist prescribed trilepal, posted by linkadge on June 10, 2004, at 15:23:07
Hi linkadge,
My pdoc would not prescribe Trileptal for me because I had a severe allergic reaction to Tegretol, and that Trileptal was way too close to Tegretol...so I understand your not wanting to take one drug that is so much like another.
I agree with one of the other posters...you need to call your pdoc and tell him you just can't take the Trileptal, and could the both of you work out some another game plan.
Posted by don_bristol on June 12, 2004, at 9:16:00
In reply to Its over for me--Psychiatrist prescribed trilepal, posted by linkadge on June 10, 2004, at 15:23:07
> I go to the psychiatrist saying that I'm taking celexa 20mg and I am still suicidally depressed, and he prescribed trilleptal. What the heck. I suggested tricyclics, and celexa-remeron combo - nope. I travel 2 and 1/2 hours to see this great psychiatrist, and he prescribes me a mood stabalizer. This guy is only digging my hole deeper.
>
> I'm not even going to fill this prescription.
>
>
> Linkadge
>
More and more studies are showing that the modern atypical neuropletics are effective in helping with conditions which they are not primarily designed to do.Personally, I would be inclined to give the med a try and then make your judgement.
Posted by zeugma on June 12, 2004, at 9:18:38
In reply to trileptal for tegretol non responders ??, posted by linkadge on June 11, 2004, at 9:54:28
> Tegretol made me feel so crappy, that I don't even want to give trileptal it a try. I have heard of nobody whos found relief with thrileptal and not tegretol. They both just inhibit the sodium/calcium channels.
>
> LinkadgeLinkadge,
I have to say that I agree with your reasoning here. I spent many sessions arguing with my pdoc about why I was on two norepinephrine reuptake inhibitors simultaneously (nortriptyline and Strattera). The combination eventually became counterproductive, and I am currently only on the nortriptyline, it is the far superior med for the long term IMO. Taking these two drugs simultaneously was not rational.
Nortriptyline and Strattera are less alike in their biochemical actions than Trileptal and Tegretol, so I have to concur with your reasoning. Since you failed a Tegretol trial you should try another type of mood stabilizer.
>
Posted by linkadge on June 12, 2004, at 11:11:08
In reply to Re: trileptal for tegretol non responders ?? » linkadge, posted by zeugma on June 12, 2004, at 9:18:38
I will probably go back on a litte lithium.
Linkadge
Posted by Craig on June 12, 2004, at 18:53:00
In reply to trileptal for tegretol non responders ??, posted by linkadge on June 11, 2004, at 9:54:28
Tegretol was a disaster for me, but Trileptal is my miracle drug. So, now you've heard of somebody who found relief with Trileptal and not Tegretol. On the first day I took 1200 mg of Trileptal, my year-long agitation and anxiety just disappeared. I am bipolar, in case that affects your opinion of why it works for me. I also was hesitant to try Trileptal because I couldn't tolerate Tegretol. I'm glad I did because it works great for me.
-------------------------------------------------
> Tegretol made me feel so crappy, that I don't even want to give trileptal it a try. I have heard of nobody whos found relief with thrileptal and not tegretol. They both just inhibit the sodium/calcium channels.
>
> Linkadge
>
Posted by zero on June 13, 2004, at 12:44:44
In reply to Its over for me--Psychiatrist prescribed trilepal, posted by linkadge on June 10, 2004, at 15:23:07
My experience with Tegretol was similar to yours. (my psychopharm. even acknowledges that it makes some people depressed).
My experience with Trileptal was very different. It had "activating" and mood elevating properties (in spite of its similarity in chemical structure to Tegretol).
Best wishes.
This is the end of the thread.
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