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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 8 of 8. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by don_bristol on June 10, 2004, at 14:39:15
I am taking Parnate and I am going on holiday to Italy for a couple of weeks.
I have always enjoyed freshly made pizza and there will be plenty of it in Italy. How dangerous is a simple fresh "cheese & tomato" Napoletana pizza likely to be? I am not talking about the sort of pizza in Pizza Hut.
I am a bit concerned that Italian pizza restaurants may not use mozzarella cheese (which I think is ok with MAOIs) but they might substitute something else else for it. Is a typical pizza cheese likely to be bad for me?
What about if the mozzarella used on a pizza has not been kept properly. Could that lead to worrying levels of tyramine? I notice that mozzarella has about as much protein as cheddar does http://www.annecollins.com/protein_diet/protein-cheese.htm so do you think mozzarella could develop tyramine if left to go off?
I'd welcome any views.
Posted by King Vultan on June 10, 2004, at 15:03:57
In reply to Is fresh Italian pizza dangerous with MAOI?, posted by don_bristol on June 10, 2004, at 14:39:15
You can take a look at some of the cheeses listed in table 4 of this reference that I commonly post:
http://www.vh.org/adult/provider/psychiatry/CPS/19.html
Personally, I wonder if the amount of tyramine in mozzarella is being overstated because I have a reprint of the 1998 pizza study done by Drs. Shulman and Walker in Toronto (kindly sent to me by Dr. Shulman) that showed virtually no tyramine in Pizza Hut and Dominos pizzas with double cheese and double pepperoni. What they stress in the study, however, is that one may run into trouble with gourmet pizzas made with aged cheeses, and my opinion is that one should also be very careful with pepperoni (not that this point applies to your particular question).
Todd
Posted by gardenergirl on June 10, 2004, at 17:30:57
In reply to Re: Is fresh Italian pizza dangerous with MAOI?, posted by King Vultan on June 10, 2004, at 15:03:57
I've not only had tons of pizza with mozzarella or provolone, I have also had fresh mozzarella by itself with no problem. I do check the date when I buy cheese in the deli, and don't keep it in my fridge longer than the date. Also, whenever I eat any pizza, I check the type of cheese. So many these days use a cheese mix which can contain asiago or parmesan. I avoid those.
good luck! BTW, I did have some fresh goat cheese the other day, too. Not sure I'm ready to have Greek feta, but the goat cheese was good.
gg
Posted by bobbiedobbs on June 10, 2004, at 23:45:15
In reply to Re: Is fresh Italian pizza dangerous with MAOI?, posted by gardenergirl on June 10, 2004, at 17:30:57
A little vigilence should allow alot of pizza. Mozzarella is absolutely no problem, nor ricotta. Nor processed American. The Dr. Shulman study referenced earlier made this clear. There is another site which actually lists tyramine content in the various cheeses. Surprisingly, feta and parmesan are negligible. Just stay away from English Stilton! Iwould stay away from a 3-cheese type pizaza if you don't know the type of cheeses.
Phil "15 years of pizza/Naril; nary a reaction" B.
Posted by cubbybear on June 11, 2004, at 10:19:08
In reply to Re: Is fresh Italian pizza dangerous with MAOI?, posted by bobbiedobbs on June 10, 2004, at 23:45:15
I'd be really careful in any foreign country, and make sure you ask the waiters exactly what kind of cheese they use. If it means going out of your way to learn a little Italian conversation, then it's far better than messing around with too much tyramine.
Posted by don_bristol on June 12, 2004, at 8:15:09
In reply to Re: Is fresh Italian pizza dangerous with MAOI?, posted by King Vultan on June 10, 2004, at 15:03:57
> You can take a look at some of the cheeses listed
> in table 4 of this reference that I commonly post:
>
> http://www.vh.org/adult/provider/psychiatry/CPS/19.html
>
>King Vultan, the strange thing is that the table in that document you refer to it says there is almost no tyramine in processed cheese. But if I am right then processed cheese is used in cheeseburgers and look at this very recent posting:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20040608/msgs/355538.html
" Parnate is much more liable than Nardil to cause a hypertensive crisis. i had one with a small amount of mac & cheese after only a month or so of being on Parnate, and i have never had a hypertensive reaction from food after 9 months on Nardil"
>
> Personally, I wonder if the amount of tyramine in
> mozzarella is being overstated because I have a
> reprint of the 1998 pizza study done by Drs. Shulman
> and Walker in Toronto (kindly sent to me by Dr. Shulman)
> that showed virtually no tyramine in Pizza Hut and
> Dominos pizzas with double cheese and double pepperoni.
> What they stress in the study, however, is that one
> may run into trouble with gourmet pizzas made with
> aged cheeses, and my opinion is that one should also
> be very careful with pepperoni (not that this point
> applies to your particular question).Interesting. Thank you.
Posted by don_bristol on June 12, 2004, at 8:25:15
In reply to Re: Is fresh Italian pizza dangerous with MAOI?, posted by King Vultan on June 10, 2004, at 15:03:57
King Vulcan, after posting my other reply to you I tried to find the Shulman & Walker study you referred to but all I go was a Medline citation:
Would you mind emailling the full study to me? My email address in the link on this message works.
Thank you.
Don
Posted by King Vultan on June 12, 2004, at 10:39:02
In reply to Re: Is fresh Italian pizza dangerous with MAOI? » King Vultan, posted by don_bristol on June 12, 2004, at 8:25:15
> King Vulcan, after posting my other reply to you I tried to find the Shulman & Walker study you referred to but all I go was a Medline citation:
>
> http://snipurl.com/710g
>
> Would you mind emailling the full study to me? My email address in the link on this message works.
>
> Thank you.
>
> Don
Unfortunately, it seems that the study is really not on the internet anywhere and is only available on paper, as I had to write to Dr. Shulman in Toronto for a copy. He was nice enough to just send me a copy in the mail, even though I had offered to pay a fee if necessary. If you wish, you can e-mail me your address at kingvultan@yahoo.com, and I can photocopy it and send it to you in the mail. Sorry, I have a primitive webtv system, and there is no way for me to scan it in or anything.Todd
This is the end of the thread.
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