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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Buckeye Fan on June 3, 2004, at 7:54:52
DANGERS OF RITALIN
Posted by Buckeye Fan on June 3, 2004, at 7:51:28In reply to give it a try, posted by linkadge on June 2, 2004, at 21:49:27
Below are just 3 different studies on Ritalin
I could post 30!Please...I am not out to win this argument..I am out to save children from these dangerous "quick fixes"....
Just look at this Board...we as ADULTS have tremendous difficulty navigating the world of Mind-altering Prescriptions.Kids are younger..much more resilant..and their bodies are much more capable of self-healing.
Please read the 3 articles posted before blasting me...thanks.
Buckeye Fan
http://www.adhd-biofeedback.com/ritalin.html
http://azaz.essortment.com/ritalindanger_rbql.htm
http://www.healthyinstinct.com/healthinfo/topics/conditions/adhd/dangers.shtml
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Thread
my 12 yr old was prescribed ritalin today.. seeknsolace 6/2/04
Re: my 12 yr old was prescribed ritalin today.. Buckeye Fan 6/2/04
Re: my 12 yr old was prescribed ritalin today.. Chairman_MAO 6/2/04
Re: my 12 yr old was prescribed ritalin today.. » Buckeye Fan zeugma 6/2/04
Re: my 12 yr old was prescribed ritalin today.. seeknsolace 6/2/04
Re: my 12 yr old was prescribed ritalin today.. » zeugma Chairman_MAO 6/2/04
Re: my 12 yr old was prescribed ritalin today.. seeknsolace 6/2/04
Re: my 12 yr old was prescribed ritalin today.. » seeknsolace Chairman_MAO 6/2/04
give it a try linkadge 6/2/04
Re: give it a try kotsunega 6/2/04
Re: my 12 yr old was prescribed ritalin today.. » Chairman_MAO Sad Panda 6/3/04
Re: my 12 yr old was prescribed ritalin today.. » Sad Panda Chairman_MAO 6/3/04
DANGERS OF RITALIN Buckeye Fan 6/3/04
Posted by linkadge on June 3, 2004, at 8:55:23
In reply to DANGERS OF RITALIN, posted by Buckeye Fan on June 3, 2004, at 7:54:52
It's great to point fingers but....
I have read just as many studies that show that even emaculate dietary interventions don't change the course of the illness one bit. I will try to find them.
Another study I read involved 50 children with ADD and it showed that 45 minautes of aerobic exercise did not cause the elevations in catecholamines that it did in healthy children.
Every child will have different set points at which their body metabolizes dopamine. Precursor treatment nor exercise will change this genetic set point.
Think of it this way. It is just like eyes. Some people need glasses, sure they can try and squint all their lives but no matter how hard they try they will *never* get 20/20 vision without glasses.
Can you imagine asking a child to try and get through high school without glasses ??? It would be next to impossible. I do agree that ritalin is prescribed in many cases that do not need the medication, but for those who genuinly have the disorder this medication is the difference between seeing clearly and squinting all their life.
Linkadge
Posted by Bill LL on June 3, 2004, at 9:30:43
In reply to DANGERS OF RITALIN, posted by Buckeye Fan on June 3, 2004, at 7:54:52
I read all 3. I have never taken Ritalin. Nor has anyone in my immediate family. But I have never heard of any problems with kids or adults taking the drug as prescribed.
The 3 articles seem to list hypothetical things that can go wrong in cases of taking a lot more than prescribed by people who are trying to get high.
But the 3 articles only mentioned 1 problem that can occur with normal usage. That is high blood pressure. But I would assume that doctors monitor their Ritalin patients blood pressure.
I think Ritalin is a great drug. It may be prescribed for some people who don't really need it, but I would guess that it is also not prescribed to lots of people who really could benefit from it.
Posted by Buckeye Fan on June 3, 2004, at 12:00:39
In reply to Re: DANGERS OF RITALIN, posted by Bill LL on June 3, 2004, at 9:30:43
These are my last 2 warnings on this thread.
Again...I have no agenda but the safety of childrenGod Bless
Buckeye Fan
Posted by linkadge on June 3, 2004, at 12:50:00
In reply to MORE DANGERS OF RITALIN, posted by Buckeye Fan on June 3, 2004, at 12:00:39
Buckeye, I would now like you to practice what you preach.
Throw out all of your tylenol, it dammages your liver, thats a fact.
Throw out all of your aspirin, as it may cause a stroke do to over antithrombotic action.
Never drink coffee again, caffiene can raise your
BP and increase the risk of heart attack, as well as cause glutamate toxicity.Eat nothing with an artificial sweetener, they can cause glutamate toxicity.
Don't take advil. It can raise your BP, and dammage your liver.
Don't drink milk, hormones from the farmers seep into the milk and can cause growth problems.
Don't use margarine, hydrogenated oils in these are much more likely to clog your arteries than real butter.
If you wear glasses or contacts, don't because they make your eyes lazy and weaken the muscles more than before you started wearing them.
Only use a flat pannel display not a regular monitor. The low radiation from a monitor has been shown to cause chromisomal dammage in vivo.
Don't use a cell phone. The radiation from it may cause brain cancer.
Don't barbecue you meat. The reaction between the flames and saturated nitrates causes a super carcinagenic substance.
Don't smoke
Don't drink
Don't live in a city. The smog mixed with high concentration positive ions can cause mood problems, respiratory problems, and cardiac problems.
etc etc etc
-----------------------------------------------We live in an imperfect world. Of course you are fortunate not to have real ADD. If you are going to condemn the best attempts we have to help these kids, then kindly provide an alternative that is proven as effective as ritalin.
Linkadge
Posted by zeugma on June 3, 2004, at 14:18:33
In reply to safety? what about a life?, posted by linkadge on June 3, 2004, at 12:50:00
Posted by Buckeye Fan on June 3, 2004, at 21:46:35
In reply to safety? what about a life?, posted by linkadge on June 3, 2004, at 12:50:00
Your post made for a nice speech Linkage...but it
was filled with hostilty.I am aware of our "imperfect world"....I have been a minister of the Gospel for 20 years.
I have counseled dozens of parents who rue the day they fed their children Ridalin, Adderal and
other "prescriptions".I have posted plent of information... am not twisting anyones arm...and now I have provided additional alternatives.
God Bless
Buckeye Fan
http://www.2gohealth.com/alternative-medicine-for-adhd.htmhttp://www.shirleys-wellness-cafe.com/ritalin.htm
http://www.add-adhd-help-center.com/ritalin_alternatives.htm
http://www.healthyinstinct.com/healthinfo/topics/conditions/adhd/
Posted by seeknsolace on June 4, 2004, at 7:01:40
In reply to ALTERNATIVES TO RITALIN, posted by Buckeye Fan on June 3, 2004, at 21:46:35
> Your post made for a nice speech Linkage...but it
> was filled with hostilty.
>
> I am aware of our "imperfect world"....I have been a minister of the Gospel for 20 years.
> I have counseled dozens of parents who rue the day they fed their children Ridalin, Adderal and
> other "prescriptions".
>
> I have posted plent of information... am not twisting anyones arm...and now I have provided additional alternatives.
>
> God Bless
> Buckeye Fan
>
>
> http://www.2gohealth.com/alternative-medicine-for-adhd.htm
>
> http://www.shirleys-wellness-cafe.com/ritalin.htm
>
> http://www.add-adhd-help-center.com/ritalin_alternatives.htm
>
> http://www.healthyinstinct.com/healthinfo/topics/conditions/adhd/I'm speaking for myself here.. I became depressed at 11 suicidal at 13.. I wished to God someone had helped me then.. as the years passed I only got worse, developed into bipolar/anxiety/panick attacks.. maybe my life wouldnt have been so difficult if someone helped me out as a child.
For you Buckeye.. I had found God at age of 19.. but the preaching of the gospel didnt take away the mental illness.. only suppressed the inevitable.. I lived so high on God, which I think was the mania of the bipolar.. I thought I was delivered from depression.. when I came crashing down some years later, I fell emotionally like never before.. that was 4 years ago, and today I'm still recovering emotionally and spiritually.. as much as I once had great faith in the goodness of God.. and even tho this clashes with my spiritual convictions.. faith in God alone is not enough.
Posted by Buckeye Fan on June 4, 2004, at 8:05:23
In reply to Re: ALTERNATIVES TO RITALIN, posted by seeknsolace on June 4, 2004, at 7:01:40
> >
>
> I'm speaking for myself here.. I became depressed at 11 suicidal at 13.. I wished to God someone had helped me then.. as the years passed I only got worse, developed into bipolar/anxiety/panick attacks.. maybe my life wouldnt have been so difficult if someone helped me out as a child.
>
> For you Buckeye.. I had found God at age of 19.. but the preaching of the gospel didnt take away the mental illness.. only suppressed the inevitable.. I lived so high on God, which I think was the mania of the bipolar.. I thought I was delivered from depression.. when I came crashing down some years later, I fell emotionally like never before.. that was 4 years ago, and today I'm still recovering emotionally and spiritually.. as much as I once had great faith in the goodness of God.. and even tho this clashes with my spiritual convictions.. faith in God alone is not enough.
****************************************************************************************************Dear seeknsolace,
I have obviously been misunderstood. Let me try and clear the air.I DO NOT think that EVERY problem has a spiritual solution. Man is a 3 part being...and all 3 parts require healing in different ways.( Body, Mind , spirit)
I thank GOD for the knowledge he gives MD's. specialists, etc...my own wife is a Dental Hygyenist!
I would never counsel anyone, with lets say Diabetes to just "pray about it"...and not seek medical help.
Nor would I tell those of us who have trouble
emotionally to just pray that our problems would magically "go away".Seems I have come under fire here because of the strong stand I have taken against Ritalin.
In my opinion it is a dangerous drug.
In my opinion the side-effects, risks,and dangers...outweigh the benefits.Each drug must be examined, researched and individuals can then make an informed decision.
All prescriptions are not created equal! lol!I realize tha in the lasy 6000 years, mans gene pool has become increasingly "polluted" and mutations have occurred resulting in sickness in all three areas. ( Body Mind Spirit )
Exercise the Body
Seek God for the Spirit
Turn to the latest and best available treatment
for the Mind.Buckeye Fan
Posted by linkadge on June 4, 2004, at 8:31:25
In reply to Re: ALTERNATIVES TO RITALIN, posted by Buckeye Fan on June 4, 2004, at 8:05:23
I know personally of 4 children who underwent the most inclusive and detailed nutritional analysis, by their cautious parrents. They spent thousands of dollars trying to help their children with ADHD without having to use ritalin.
On patient I saw had their child on 10 grams of fish oil daily. That is enough to seriously alter bleeding time as fish oil is very antithrombotic.
After 2 years of dinking around with plenty of alternative medicines, they finally tried ritalin which worked wonders at only 10 mg. It is a simple as this.
How can you say that ritalin is *so* unnatural. Stimulants are very natural. You are promoting products that probablly contain some ginkgo which is a plant. Cocaine is a plant, whats the difference, don't tell me side effects because thats absolutely subjective. Ginkgo causes a release of dopamine, as does ritalin !!??
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on June 4, 2004, at 8:37:43
In reply to Re: ALTERNATIVES TO RITALIN, posted by Buckeye Fan on June 4, 2004, at 8:05:23
Oh and one of the products you are reccomending contains gotu-kolau. This stimulant has been linked to the whole stimulant side effect cluster.
Lets not get into the: "its safe because its natural" thing. Ephedra is natural, but has probably been linked to more deaths than ritalin.
Linkadge
Posted by seeknsolace on June 4, 2004, at 18:54:24
In reply to Re: ALTERNATIVES TO RITALIN, posted by Buckeye Fan on June 4, 2004, at 8:05:23
> > >
> >
> > I'm speaking for myself here.. I became depressed at 11 suicidal at 13.. I wished to God someone had helped me then.. as the years passed I only got worse, developed into bipolar/anxiety/panick attacks.. maybe my life wouldnt have been so difficult if someone helped me out as a child.
> >
> > For you Buckeye.. I had found God at age of 19.. but the preaching of the gospel didnt take away the mental illness.. only suppressed the inevitable.. I lived so high on God, which I think was the mania of the bipolar.. I thought I was delivered from depression.. when I came crashing down some years later, I fell emotionally like never before.. that was 4 years ago, and today I'm still recovering emotionally and spiritually.. as much as I once had great faith in the goodness of God.. and even tho this clashes with my spiritual convictions.. faith in God alone is not enough.
> ****************************************************************************************************
>
> Dear seeknsolace,
> I have obviously been misunderstood. Let me try and clear the air.
>
> I DO NOT think that EVERY problem has a spiritual solution. Man is a 3 part being...and all 3 parts require healing in different ways.( Body, Mind , spirit)
>
> I thank GOD for the knowledge he gives MD's. specialists, etc...my own wife is a Dental Hygyenist!
>
> I would never counsel anyone, with lets say Diabetes to just "pray about it"...and not seek medical help.
>
> Nor would I tell those of us who have trouble
> emotionally to just pray that our problems would magically "go away".
>
> Seems I have come under fire here because of the strong stand I have taken against Ritalin.
> In my opinion it is a dangerous drug.
> In my opinion the side-effects, risks,and dangers...outweigh the benefits.
>
> Each drug must be examined, researched and individuals can then make an informed decision.
> All prescriptions are not created equal! lol!
>
> I realize tha in the lasy 6000 years, mans gene pool has become increasingly "polluted" and mutations have occurred resulting in sickness in all three areas. ( Body Mind Spirit )
>
> Exercise the Body
>
> Seek God for the Spirit
>
> Turn to the latest and best available treatment
> for the Mind.
>
> Buckeye Fan
>
>
>
>Buckeye, I'm not attacking you.. just being objective and as for my last post.. when health both mental and physical issues are addressed with God in the same sentence, it just sparks triggers/emotions that are a constance source of my grief/pain and frustrations.
I know you mean well and you were suggesting more of a practical approach rather than spiritual, but I'm doing the best I can and we all learn by trial and error. The therapist told me today he's going to talk to a pdoc and suggested he puts my son on a anti-depressant. I dont know if this means with the ritalin, but thats in the future.
Posted by Dr. Bob on June 5, 2004, at 22:55:08
In reply to ALTERNATIVES TO RITALIN, posted by Buckeye Fan on June 3, 2004, at 21:46:35
> Your post ... was filled with hostilty.
Please don't post anything that could lead others to feel accused.
If you have any questions or comments about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
or redirect a follow-up to Psycho-Babble Administration.
Sharing something about your own issues and their possible role in your reaction might be an interesting exercise -- and might help others respond to you supportively.
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by sl on June 6, 2004, at 10:09:33
In reply to Re: ALTERNATIVES TO RITALIN, posted by Buckeye Fan on June 4, 2004, at 8:05:23
> I realize tha in the lasy 6000 years, mans gene pool has become increasingly "polluted" and mutations have occurred resulting in sickness in all three areas. ( Body Mind Spirit )
Those mutations are called "evolution". Once they are in effect the problematic ones are slowly weeded out by natural selection until only the advantageous ones are left, to be passed on. (Do a Google on "social darwinism".)
Don't go down that path, it is a sticky slope and anthropologists like me spend years studying and debating it.
Posted by Dr. Bob on June 6, 2004, at 11:01:21
In reply to Re: ALTERNATIVES TO RITALIN, posted by sl on June 6, 2004, at 10:09:33
> Those mutations are called "evolution"...
Sorry to interrupt, but I'd like to redirect follow-ups regarding evolution to Psycho-Social-Babble. Here's a link:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20040602/msgs/354268.html
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by Buckeye Fan on June 7, 2004, at 6:21:11
In reply to Redirect: evolution, posted by Dr. Bob on June 6, 2004, at 11:01:21
Thanks Dr Bob
I have placed my comments over there.\Buckeye Fan
This is the end of the thread.
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