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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 19 of 19. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by snapper on May 21, 2004, at 1:17:25
Hey chemist, snapper here..... I may have posted this to you before but here goes again....I am on 2.5 mg Xanax qd ........weeks ago I req. my pdoc to switch me from Klonopin to Xanax because you mentioned that it would be good for GAD...anyhow I am wondering why Xanax is making my already "psudo-dementia" type depression worse..I am not on an effective AD because I am preparing to do a round of ECT. Docs want me on as few drugs as possible for procedure. You mentioned something about lipid solubility.... I guess bottom line is why does Xanax make me feel sooooo retarded ..More so than the K... word finding difficulties,confusion states absolutely awful short term mem prob. I realize my under-treated dep and anxiety play a role here but I feel like i have freakin alzheimers......thanks for any input
Snapper
Posted by snapper on May 21, 2004, at 23:47:56
Chemist did you see my question .......further up on the board? " Chemist Xanax ?? again" ?
Snapper
Posted by shadows721 on May 21, 2004, at 23:55:02
In reply to Chemist Xanax ?? again, posted by snapper on May 21, 2004, at 1:17:25
Snapper
What dosage of Klonopin were you on?
Posted by chemist on May 22, 2004, at 0:05:21
In reply to ATTN: Chemist.!!!!, posted by snapper on May 21, 2004, at 23:47:56
> Chemist did you see my question .......further up on the board? " Chemist Xanax ?? again" ?
> Snapperhi snapper, i read your post, and my apologies for not replying sooner. xanax is a pretty heavy-hitter in re: short-term memory loss, and you have to dose regularly in order to keep the drug in your system. i am guessing that your problems - e.g., the pseudo-dementia - are really related to the quite often severe anterograde amnesia....in addition to the very short onset of action, which can be a kick in the pants. i do know that xanax (and at least one other triazolobenzodiazepine) have been found to possess anti-depressant activity. wondering if your new switch is just a settling-in period? the swap from a 1,4- or 1,5-benzodiazepine for xanax is not a one-for-one deal, so that could very well be the problem. i prefer xanax to the benzos because, in my opinion, it is a cleaner drug, with a short onset of action, and a short half-life. the latter statement is indicative of trouble in tapering off of xanax, but as with any substance, as long as the tapering is slow, no problem...might you try a lesser dose taken more frequently? please let me know if any of this helps, and again, i apologize for not responding sooner.....all the best, chemist
Posted by snapper on May 22, 2004, at 0:26:00
In reply to got it, sorry for delay... » snapper, posted by chemist on May 22, 2004, at 0:05:21
> > Chemist did you see my question .......further up on the board? " Chemist Xanax ?? again" ?
> > Snapper
>
> hi snapper, i read your post, and my apologies for not replying sooner. xanax is a pretty heavy-hitter in re: short-term memory loss, and you have to dose regularly in order to keep the drug in your system. i am guessing that your problems - e.g., the pseudo-dementia - are really related to the quite often severe anterograde amnesia....in addition to the very short onset of action, which can be a kick in the pants. i do know that xanax (and at least one other triazolobenzodiazepine) have been found to possess anti-depressant activity. wondering if your new switch is just a settling-in period? the swap from a 1,4- or 1,5-benzodiazepine for xanax is not a one-for-one deal, so that could very well be the problem. i prefer xanax to the benzos because, in my opinion, it is a cleaner drug, with a short onset of action, and a short half-life. the latter statement is indicative of trouble in tapering off of xanax, but as with any substance, as long as the tapering is slow, no problem...might you try a lesser dose taken more frequently? please let me know if any of this helps, and again, i apologize for not responding sooner.....all the best, chemist>thanks for getting back to me.....the memory problem existed before the Xanax but not nearly as severe.... as I noted in some other post I am dosing of of it from 1mg t.i.d. by .5mg per every 5 days- tommorrow I will only be taking 1mg b.i.d.
then so on and on....as i mentioned earlier in other post ...my doc performing ECT wants me to be off of all benzos (and derivitives) before starting ect. I know ect is most likely not your specialty but I am particularly anxious about the time period of when I hope to initiate ect 1st or 2nd week of June .... I will not have completely been off of it by the time I hope to start the ect and wondering if at that time, I am say on only .5mg or 1mg of Xanax if I will have any detrimental effect of immediately d/c'ing it to commence the ect. I know all of this is very wordy and I hope I am getting my point across-but my anxiety isn't in check with the benzos any way (neither with the Klonopin) I hope you can decipher some of this and give me some input-like I said before I have a retarded/psedo-dementia type depression any way and the Xanax is really making me feel like a 'retard'...... Finally in your opinion what would be a safe taper off of Xanax under normal circumstances 3mg t.i.d. for 5 to six weeks and previously long term Klonopin useage.....
thanks
snapper
Posted by chemist on May 22, 2004, at 0:33:59
In reply to Re: got it, sorry for delay..., posted by snapper on May 22, 2004, at 0:26:00
> > > Chemist did you see my question .......further up on the board? " Chemist Xanax ?? again" ?
> > > Snapper
> >
> > hi snapper, i read your post, and my apologies for not replying sooner. xanax is a pretty heavy-hitter in re: short-term memory loss, and you have to dose regularly in order to keep the drug in your system. i am guessing that your problems - e.g., the pseudo-dementia - are really related to the quite often severe anterograde amnesia....in addition to the very short onset of action, which can be a kick in the pants. i do know that xanax (and at least one other triazolobenzodiazepine) have been found to possess anti-depressant activity. wondering if your new switch is just a settling-in period? the swap from a 1,4- or 1,5-benzodiazepine for xanax is not a one-for-one deal, so that could very well be the problem. i prefer xanax to the benzos because, in my opinion, it is a cleaner drug, with a short onset of action, and a short half-life. the latter statement is indicative of trouble in tapering off of xanax, but as with any substance, as long as the tapering is slow, no problem...might you try a lesser dose taken more frequently? please let me know if any of this helps, and again, i apologize for not responding sooner.....all the best, chemist
>
> >thanks for getting back to me.....the memory problem existed before the Xanax but not nearly as severe.... as I noted in some other post I am dosing of of it from 1mg t.i.d. by .5mg per every 5 days- tommorrow I will only be taking 1mg b.i.d.
> then so on and on....as i mentioned earlier in other post ...my doc performing ECT wants me to be off of all benzos (and derivitives) before starting ect. I know ect is most likely not your specialty but I am particularly anxious about the time period of when I hope to initiate ect 1st or 2nd week of June .... I will not have completely been off of it by the time I hope to start the ect and wondering if at that time, I am say on only .5mg or 1mg of Xanax if I will have any detrimental effect of immediately d/c'ing it to commence the ect. I know all of this is very wordy and I hope I am getting my point across-but my anxiety isn't in check with the benzos any way (neither with the Klonopin) I hope you can decipher some of this and give me some input-like I said before I have a retarded/psedo-dementia type depression any way and the Xanax is really making me feel like a 'retard'...... Finally in your opinion what would be a safe taper off of Xanax under normal circumstances 3mg t.i.d. for 5 to six weeks and previously long term Klonopin useage.....
> thanks
> snapper
>
>
hi snapper...if you can stabilize at 0.5 mg qd xanax for a week, go to 0.25 mg qd hs and then off. it will likely not be pleasant, but your schedule sounds to me like it's working....and do not be so negative about ECT: it's come a long way in the past 20 years (more specifically, the past 10), and it might well be the answer to your problems.....please let me know if there is any clarification needed, i will do my best......with warmest wishes, chemist
Posted by snapper on May 22, 2004, at 0:57:13
In reply to Re: got it, sorry for delay... » snapper, posted by chemist on May 22, 2004, at 0:33:59
Hi chemist , thanks for your speedy response. I am not down on ect. In-fact had some success with it right around 21/2 to 3 years ago but the results obviously are not permanent for most....I am even having trouble getting the dr. who did it before to say yes 100% he'll do it again! I wrote about it ina post a few days ago and i'll see if I can locate it and let you read it and see what you think.... these pdocs can be so frustrating at times...any wat if I can find the post i'll re-post and let you see what you think!
thanks again
snapper
Posted by snapper on May 22, 2004, at 1:18:47
In reply to Re: Chemist Xanax ?? again, posted by shadows721 on May 21, 2004, at 23:55:02
> Snapper
>
> What dosage of Klonopin were you on?2 to 3 mg per day
Posted by shadows721 on May 22, 2004, at 16:07:42
In reply to Re: Chemist Xanax ?? again, posted by snapper on May 22, 2004, at 1:18:47
According to benzo table, 0.5 mg of Xanax and 0.5 Klonopin should be equal. So, according to the benzo table your dosing was very close to being equal. However, as you mentioned, you felt a definant difference between the two meds. I did too. I found Xanax had a stronger effect on me too. I hope your tx goes well. When you feel up to it, I would like to hear back from you to see how it went.
Posted by snapper on May 22, 2004, at 18:16:20
In reply to Re: Chemist Xanax ?? again, posted by shadows721 on May 22, 2004, at 16:07:42
Hi Shadows, what was the biggest diff. you noticed between K an X? was it a memory thing as well, or was it a combo of differences?
snapper
Posted by chemist on May 26, 2004, at 21:28:44
In reply to Re: Chemist Xanax ?? again, posted by snapper on May 22, 2004, at 18:16:20
> Hi Shadows, what was the biggest diff. you noticed between K an X? was it a memory thing as well, or was it a combo of differences?
> snappersanpper, may i give you my experience? klonopin was much less an antoregrade amnesiac than xanax. i have taken both for long periods of time, and found that xanax is, for me, the best. of course, you have to watch your xanqx consumption, bit in my opinion, it is cleaner than klonopin. the upside is that if you are anxiety-prone, xanax is more likely the answer. your thoghts? all the best, chemist
Posted by snapper on May 27, 2004, at 0:28:11
In reply to Re: Chemist Xanax ?? again » snapper, posted by chemist on May 26, 2004, at 21:28:44
> > Hi Shadows, what was the biggest diff. you noticed between K an X? was it a memory thing as well, or was it a combo of differences?
> > snapper
>
> sanpper, may i give you my experience? klonopin was much less an antoregrade amnesiac than xanax. i have taken both for long periods of time, and found that xanax is, for me, the best. of course, you have to watch your xanqx consumption, bit in my opinion, it is cleaner than klonopin. the upside is that if you are anxiety-prone, xanax is more likely the answer. your thoghts? all the best, chemisthi chemist, I would probably have to say for me that having short term memory problems to begin with that I will be glad when I am off of the xanax. I def. noticed a pro-nounced and very mark difficulty when I cross tapered from klonopin to xanax a few week back. Yes I am very anxiety prone and I have panic problems even while on the benzos (et al) my battle with anxiety and depression goes back 14 to 15 years and it just seems to be getting worse. I am so frustrated because I used to have a razor sharp memory! It will be interesting to see what happens when I am off of the xanax and have my round of ect, and then see if I can maintain with out the benzos!
Also , knowing what I know ... I would have to agree the xanax is a cleaner drug-but efficient dosing for me is problematic. I also believe that K hits more receptor sites ( correct?) My depression and anxiety present themselves in such painful and physically different ways - I am miserable 98% of the time that I am awake- I have very sensetive hearing- noise really gets on my nerves, I am full of lots of psychic tension and most meds just don't seem to do much for me-I am praying for miracles :)....It is such a pain to be alive ...yet I want to enjoy life again...sorry for rambling and thanks for your thoughtful input...and any more input would be welcomed
snapper
Posted by shadows721 on May 27, 2004, at 1:31:36
In reply to Re: Chemist Xanax ?? again, posted by snapper on May 27, 2004, at 0:28:11
I felt that Xanax made me much more forgetful.
Is your hearing sensitivity related to the meds or your condition? I have that too with or without meds. I just think it's another symptom of my ptsd.
Posted by snapper on May 27, 2004, at 1:58:10
In reply to Re: Chemist Xanax ?? again, posted by shadows721 on May 27, 2004, at 1:31:36
> I felt that Xanax made me much more forgetful.
>
> Is your hearing sensitivity related to the meds or your condition? I have that too with or without meds. I just think it's another symptom of my ptsd.Not med related, just very brain deadening depression. I may have some ptsd too. I seem to fit the general criteria for most of the major anxiety disorders..... noise sensetivity, exagerated startle response, jumpiness, sensitive to, too much light, all very wierd and 'painful' symptomology! Does get better when depression is more undeer control! Also Shadows, I think it is our overtaxed highly stressed nervous system screaming out " leave me alone and let thy heal thyself" lol. :) who knows!
snapper
Posted by shadows721 on May 27, 2004, at 14:31:06
In reply to Re: Chemist Xanax ?? again, posted by snapper on May 27, 2004, at 1:58:10
I have all of those symptoms. I was told at 4 that I have hyperactive reflexes. Well, I guess that comes to being abused since the cradle.
I know that's why I like silence and I tend to go on line verses watching tv. TV gets on my nerves literally with the ptsd. Those commercials switching so fast and shows constantly trying to get my attention. I mute out have of what I see. It's just too stimulating. I tend to isolate too, because of my nervous system.
Posted by zeugma on May 27, 2004, at 18:55:21
In reply to Re: Chemist Xanax ?? again, posted by shadows721 on May 27, 2004, at 14:31:06
> I have all of those symptoms. I was told at 4 that I have hyperactive reflexes. Well, I guess that comes to being abused since the cradle.
>
> I know that's why I like silence and I tend to go on line verses watching tv. TV gets on my nerves literally with the ptsd. Those commercials switching so fast and shows constantly trying to get my attention. I mute out have of what I see. It's just too stimulating. I tend to isolate too, because of my nervous system.
I haven't watched TV in many years, because it overstimulates me. I isolate, although it also seems to make me very unhappy. I have a lot of symptoms of CNS dysfunction. Running is one of the few physical activities that I actually enjoy, because it is purely solitary. At the same time, the isolation I experience drives me up the wall (severe anxiety and depression, loneliness).
Posted by snapper on May 28, 2004, at 0:06:31
In reply to Re: Chemist Xanax ?? again, posted by shadows721 on May 27, 2004, at 14:31:06
> I have all of those symptoms. I was told at 4 that I have hyperactive reflexes. Well, I guess that comes to being abused since the cradle.
>
> I know that's why I like silence and I tend to go on line verses watching tv. TV gets on my nerves literally with the ptsd. Those commercials switching so fast and shows constantly trying to get my attention. I mute out have of what I see. It's just too stimulating. I tend to isolate too, because of my nervous system.I don't think I have always had hyper active reflexes...If I did I did a *pretty good job* of not noticing them by self-medicating with alcohol!
I just remember the very first time I experienced true clinical depression and was in the hospital and when they come to check on you at night or knock on your door in the morning to wake me up, I literally felt like jumping out of my skin. It was like ( and still is) I was anticipating it and was scared of my own nervous response before they knocked on the door etc. Hospital psych wards are anything but calm to me. I hate being so jumpy. Right now I am very sensitive to all stimuli, because of the level of my depression-dogs, telephones,even a gentle voice asking me a simple question sometimes scares the crap out of me. I also have been isolating because of the overacvtive CNS. I also have a varying degree of tinnitus, and hyperacusis- it is just too painful to be around lots of people and commotion. It is sad too because isolation tends to induce more depression . The tv thing- my dad and I both agree that the MUTE button was and is the best thing they ever came up with!
Snapper
Posted by BobS, on May 28, 2004, at 12:57:30
In reply to Re: Chemist Xanax ?? again, posted by snapper on May 28, 2004, at 0:06:31
Chemist,
I have performed several memory, cognition, cognitive, etc. searches on Pub Med re: alprazolam and memory without finding anything definitive. I found one study that indicated improvement in healthy (I assume non-anxious) subjects at .375 mg tid.I also discussed this with my pdoc and to some extent we agree that there might be memory problems, but some of the comments in studies merely cite "the well known memory problems." While I find I have memory problems, I'm 62 y/o, I don't know how much is xanax and how much is anxiety. Hence the dose question for you and others.
BTW, it's possible that some research giant, such as MR Liebowitz, who created the LSAS, the Liebowitz social anxiety scale, said many years ago that bzds cause memory problems and thereafter, everyone took it a gospel.
Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Regards,
BobS.
Posted by chemist on May 29, 2004, at 0:47:32
In reply to Re: Chemist Xanax Mem Probs dose dependent?, posted by BobS, on May 28, 2004, at 12:57:30
> Chemist,
> I have performed several memory, cognition, cognitive, etc. searches on Pub Med re: alprazolam and memory without finding anything definitive. I found one study that indicated improvement in healthy (I assume non-anxious) subjects at .375 mg tid.
>
> I also discussed this with my pdoc and to some extent we agree that there might be memory problems, but some of the comments in studies merely cite "the well known memory problems." While I find I have memory problems, I'm 62 y/o, I don't know how much is xanax and how much is anxiety. Hence the dose question for you and others.
>
> BTW, it's possible that some research giant, such as MR Liebowitz, who created the LSAS, the Liebowitz social anxiety scale, said many years ago that bzds cause memory problems and thereafter, everyone took it a gospel.
>
> Any thoughts would be appreciated.
> Regards,
> BobS.hello there, chemist here...hi pubmed again, see Psychol. Med. 24:969-976 (1994)...... not affirmative for memory, but word recall. for a more comprehenzive review, J. Clin. Psychiatry. suppl: 86-97, discission 98-101, v. 54, 1993. also, J. Clin. Psychiatry 48:158-160 (1987). i agree with you that the evidence is scant, but from personal use, i can testify to short-term memory problems. note that these citations are not very pro-amnesia, althought here is the suggestion. sorry for the lack of info, but in my 10+ years on benzos and derivatives, i have experienced anterograde amnesia without fail.....let me know if this helps, and i aplogize for getting to this so late...all the best, chemist
This is the end of the thread.
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