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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by RobertPalsing on May 15, 2004, at 6:28:09
Disclaimer:
The subject of this thread may contain information that will make some people dissaprove, offer advice, or look down upon me. I understand this, and all I ask is this: If you are going to disagree or criticize, please do so in a constructive manner and with good intent for all involved.I smoke a lot of marijuana and occasionally do coke. I've taken every medicine in the book except MAOIs. I have a couple of basic questions, and hopefully I can get some scientific answers instead of just "why are you doing that!" type stuff :) Thx.
1) Is there any drug on the market that is similar to cocaine or has a similar effect on the body. Either chemically, or just mood-altering effects? I feel good when do just a little, and I don't get angry or grind my teeth or anything, and things seem so much simpler to me. My anxiety disappears, and my fear/anxiety/demons vanish. I don't feel "jacked up," I just stay awake a little longer. I've taken every category of psychotropic medicine that I know of (SSRIs, benzos, TCAs, NDRI, Wellbutrin, APs, mood stabilizers). Some APs in heavy doses as well. So my body handles it very well and the effect isn't very strong. I am not, in any way, endorsing its use, but it's effects have led me to this question.
2) Is Nardil known to work pretty well after the other drug categories have been tried? My main problem is anxiety, and I hear it's very good for that. I am getting a prescription for it this week... and, well, I guess the reason I'm posting is because I feel very depressed unless I'm using Ativans, smoking pot, and (when I usually feel the best), doing some coke. I finished my taper-off for my last AD a week ago, so I am feeling not very good. And the coke thing just makes me wonder.. or hope, really, that some drug out there is remotely similar.
Once again, I apologize to all who look down upon this. There are several people-- non-users, former users, and doctors -- who may not sit well with these questions. I can only thank you for trying to understand.
All replies welcome, read, and responded to. Thank you for taking the time to read.
Take care,
"Bob"
Posted by linkadge on May 15, 2004, at 7:43:18
In reply to Panic/anxiety/depression/Cocaine/Marijuana/Nardil?, posted by RobertPalsing on May 15, 2004, at 6:28:09
Ritalin is proabably similar to cocaine.
Linkadge
Posted by SLS on May 15, 2004, at 8:19:03
In reply to Re: Panic/anxiety/depression/Cocaine/Marijuana/Nardil?, posted by linkadge on May 15, 2004, at 7:43:18
> Ritalin is proabably similar to cocaine.
That was the first drug that occurred to me as well.
I would be hesitant to mix Nardil with cocaine, though. Among its many properties, cocaine inhibits serotonin reuptake, which, in combination with Nardil might produce serotonin syndrome. I'm not sure, but it is a possibility and should be investigated further if you intend to use. Ritalin is safe to mix with Nardil. Supposedly, it is safer to be on an antidepressant first before adding an MAOI. This should apply to Ritalin as well. (I would have thought it to be the exact opposite). I'm not sure this is true, as I have done it both ways without sequelae. You might want to stick around the doctor's office for the first dose of Ritalin if you are already taking Nadil to watch for a sudden increase in blood pressure. Adderall might be worthy of consideration in place of Ritalin.
- Scott
Posted by Sad Panda on May 15, 2004, at 13:25:39
In reply to Panic/anxiety/depression/Cocaine/Marijuana/Nardil?, posted by RobertPalsing on May 15, 2004, at 6:28:09
Hi Bob,
This isn't an answer to your question, but I would avoid using other drugs for awhile as you a ramping up Nardil because you won't know which drug is giving you a good or bad effect & that would make it hard for you to judge Nardil. After you are use to taking it, you could use cannabis again, but I would avoid cocaine as Scott says.
Cheers,
Panda.
Posted by chemist on May 15, 2004, at 18:09:55
In reply to Panic/anxiety/depression/Cocaine/Marijuana/Nardil?, posted by RobertPalsing on May 15, 2004, at 6:28:09
bob, if i might weigh-in....i agree in toto with all the other posters, that you should look into ritalin or adderall, and that nardil has plenty of good-press around here for your depression, and especially that you make sure to eliminate cocaine if you decide to go the route of ritalin/adderall + nardil.......some very sound advice from these folks, in my opinion, and for what it's worth....all the best, chemist
Posted by psychodad on May 15, 2004, at 19:08:06
In reply to Panic/anxiety/depression/Cocaine/Marijuana/Nardil?, posted by RobertPalsing on May 15, 2004, at 6:28:09
I don't have any advice re: what Rx matches the effects of coke and herb, but I can tell you from experience, definetely DO NOT take any coke while on Nardil. You will hate yourself for it. If you plan on still using coke every once in a while, don't get on Nardil. If you want to overcome Panic/anxiety/depression, then quit all drugs, go to a doctor and begin working towards a positive path to recovery. I know this is last thing you want to hear, doing those drugs is fun, but you have the rest of your life to think about. You can't party forever... And the earlier you start on the path to recovery the easier it will be, though still hard, and better for long term physical and mental well-being.
Best of Luck!
Posted by RobertPalsing on May 15, 2004, at 19:58:40
In reply to Re: Panic/anxiety/depression/Cocaine/Marijuana/Nardil?, posted by psychodad on May 15, 2004, at 19:08:06
Thank you all for the feedback.
I don't know how relevant this is, but I actually felt pretty bad before starting to do these drugs recreationally. I've done coke less than 10 times in my life and I didn't start smoking pot regularly until about this past January. During these months, though I've felt bad at times, I have actually had a lot of peace and genuinely enjoyable times. Only toward the last month or two has the anxiety become a major issue, only being diminished by coke. I guess what I'm saying is, I've been on the same med combo for a while, and only recently have I had some real reprieve from my anxiety and fears. I will definitely stay clean when starting Nardil and hopefully I can get a prescription for Ritalin as well and see how that goes. I'm really looking forward to it, now that you all have said what you have about your past experiences. I will continue to write and maybe with a little luck, my life will improve and I can help other people in the same situation.
Talk to you all soon, and thanks again.
Take care,
"Bob"
Posted by RobertPalsing on May 15, 2004, at 20:02:11
In reply to Re: Panic/anxiety/depression/Cocaine/Marijuana/Nardil?, posted by RobertPalsing on May 15, 2004, at 19:58:40
I will still take any further advice to heart, so if you have a comment or suggestion, please post it. This is the only community I know of with such a large degree of privacy, diversity and support. It's nice to talk to other people who realize what life is really about.
Posted by Keith Talent on May 16, 2004, at 1:16:06
In reply to Re: Panic/anxiety/depression/Cocaine/Marijuana/Nardil?, posted by RobertPalsing on May 15, 2004, at 20:02:11
I guess the key here is to identify what symptoms that you had that you tried to self-medicate away. Depression? Social Anxiety? Feeling that you don't make conversation enough?
From there, your psychiatrist can move to a diagnosis. It seems that you probably have Social Phobia. If that is so, I'd go for clonazepam (Klonopin) and dextroamphetamine (Dexedrine), with maybe an SSRI as well. Clonazepam is of higher potency and is longer acting than lorazepam. Dextroamphetamine, in a high enough dose, will make you more sociable.
The closest match to cocaine would probably be dexmethylphenidate (Focalin). Methylphenidate (Ritalin) is a 50:50 mix of two mirror-imaged chemicals. Dexmethylphenidate is just the right-handed one. It is more potent in the brain, with less side effects in the rest of the body (racing heart, tremor, high blood pressure). The problem is that it only lasts about two hours and it is expensive.
There was a small study done in Sydney on using dextroamphetamine to wean cocaine users off cocaine. It seemed to help a good proportion of the patients, but you don't sound like you are even remotely dependent.
Oh, and keep in mind that regular, heavy use of marijuana can make you very depressed. It seems that it can also bring out schizophrenia early in people who are predisposed to suffer it.
Posted by RobertPalsing on May 17, 2004, at 0:33:12
In reply to Re: Panic/anxiety/depression/Cocaine/Marijuana/Nardil?, posted by Keith Talent on May 16, 2004, at 1:16:06
Yes everything you said makes sense. I see a lot of potheads and the disturbing thing is, some of them are very crazy but can't recognize it. Unfortunately, I am on that wavelength and recognize the neurosis, which is part of what brings me down. (Trying to avoid that mindset and protect my personal space)
Not sure if I posted this before, but I take Lorazepam (Ativan) PRN and used to take Klonopin but needed something with a shorter half-life because it used to affect my short-term memory. I'd see a movie on it and couldn't remember a thing.
Is Focalin available on the prescription market in the U.S.? Is it FDA-approved or just an experimental thing?
I've been on Lamictal, Depakote (small of each), and Zoloft. The Zoloft tapering has been very emotionally and physically draining, and the Lorazepam only increases my apathy of my depressed state.
I should start Nardil tomorrow, and I'll try to get a prescription for Ritalin. I really appreciate your advice, as this is probably the only resource available to me where I can get such unbiased information.
Last q-- Do you know offhand if coke reacts with MAOIs? I definitely don't want to do it anymore once I start, but the situation could arise at a party and I just want to make sure I don't go into a coma or something. I am definitely not addicted but if you have been in an environment when coke is done, you know sometimes it can just show up without notice. Once again, I appreciate everyone's honest answers and thank you for not bashing me as I'm actually a pretty sensitive person. Well, I just want to be happy, like everyone else on here.
Thanks for reading.
Take care,
"Bob"
Posted by chemist on May 17, 2004, at 1:07:07
In reply to Re: Panic/anxiety/depression/Cocaine/Marijuana/Nardil? » Keith Talent, posted by RobertPalsing on May 17, 2004, at 0:33:12
> Yes everything you said makes sense. I see a lot of potheads and the disturbing thing is, some of them are very crazy but can't recognize it. Unfortunately, I am on that wavelength and recognize the neurosis, which is part of what brings me down. (Trying to avoid that mindset and protect my personal space)
>
> Not sure if I posted this before, but I take Lorazepam (Ativan) PRN and used to take Klonopin but needed something with a shorter half-life because it used to affect my short-term memory. I'd see a movie on it and couldn't remember a thing.
>
> Is Focalin available on the prescription market in the U.S.? Is it FDA-approved or just an experimental thing?
>
> I've been on Lamictal, Depakote (small of each), and Zoloft. The Zoloft tapering has been very emotionally and physically draining, and the Lorazepam only increases my apathy of my depressed state.
>
> I should start Nardil tomorrow, and I'll try to get a prescription for Ritalin. I really appreciate your advice, as this is probably the only resource available to me where I can get such unbiased information.
>
> Last q-- Do you know offhand if coke reacts with MAOIs? I definitely don't want to do it anymore once I start, but the situation could arise at a party and I just want to make sure I don't go into a coma or something. I am definitely not addicted but if you have been in an environment when coke is done, you know sometimes it can just show up without notice. Once again, I appreciate everyone's honest answers and thank you for not bashing me as I'm actually a pretty sensitive person. Well, I just want to be happy, like everyone else on here.
>
> Thanks for reading.
>
> Take care,
> "Bob"
>helloe, chemist here....if there is ONE PIECE OF FACTUAL INFORMATION TO TAKE FROM THIS BOARD: DO ****NOT**** MIX COCAINE AND AN MAO INHIBITOR. DO NOT DO THIS.. DO NOT. DO NOT. DO NOT. THIS IS NOT JUDGEMENT: IT IS A MATTER OF LIFE AND DEATH. DO NOT DO NOT DO NOT TAKE COCAINE WITH MAO. i hope this clears things up for you, and all the best, chemist
Posted by Keith Talent on May 17, 2004, at 5:22:07
In reply to Bob, read this NOW » RobertPalsing, posted by chemist on May 17, 2004, at 1:07:07
Focalin is definitely available on the US market, though would be more expensive than Ritalin I imagine. Good luck.
Posted by RobertPalsing on May 17, 2004, at 5:29:46
In reply to Bob, read this NOW » RobertPalsing, posted by chemist on May 17, 2004, at 1:07:07
It was a question. And thank you for your response.
Dr. Bob I hope you are not offended by this post.
Thx,
"Bob"
Posted by chemist on May 17, 2004, at 20:33:13
In reply to Re: Bob, read this NOW » chemist, posted by RobertPalsing on May 17, 2004, at 5:29:46
> It was a question. And thank you for your response.
>
> Dr. Bob I hope you are not offended by this post.
>
> Thx,
> "Bob"i understand it was a question, and just wanted to make sure you knew that this combo is NOT something you want to try...apologies for my aggressive warning, this particular combo is not to be messed with....and no judgement, just the facts....i do wish you all the best, chemist
Posted by Sebastian on May 18, 2004, at 18:49:28
In reply to Panic/anxiety/depression/Cocaine/Marijuana/Nardil?, posted by RobertPalsing on May 15, 2004, at 6:28:09
Do you smoke ciggarettes? Might help, they do similar things. Also seligelin is something they are saying will eliviate the the need for cocaine use, by satisfing the same reward mecanisism. Which is dopamine.
This is the end of the thread.
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