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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Civ on May 11, 2004, at 13:38:50
Can anyone explain the link between calcium homeostasis and mood disorders in layman's terms?
Posted by chemist on May 12, 2004, at 12:03:49
In reply to Calcium homeostasis Mood disorders, posted by Civ on May 11, 2004, at 13:38:50
> Can anyone explain the link between calcium homeostasis and mood disorders in layman's terms?
hi there, one of the proponents of calcium-channel blockers for use in bipolar disorder in Dr. Steven L. Dubovsky, and there is a book entitled ``Concise Guide to Mood Disorders,'' by Dubovsky and Dubovsky, publised by American Psychiatric Publishing, Inc. (Washington, DC; London, England), 2002, that might be of use for this and other questions. i am aware of one positive trial of the use of verapamil in treatment of mania in women (Wisner et al., Biol. Psych. 51:745-752, 2002) and one in which verapamil was not superior to placebo (Janicak et al., Am. J. Psychiatry 155:972-973, 1998). however, i do not follow maintainence of calcium regulation in the context of mood disorders in my research, but what little i know points to it being one of many players involved in what i think can best be described as a disorder that is not completely understood. sorry for the run-around, maybe these references can help, all the best, chemist
Posted by T_R_D on May 13, 2004, at 12:28:01
In reply to Calcium homeostasis Mood disorders, posted by Civ on May 11, 2004, at 13:38:50
Okay, this is very "layman" and possibly incorrect...chemist can enlighten us if I am off base.
Neurologically speaking, neurons fire by the opening of sodium channels and the closing of potassium channels. These electron (charged particles) and chemical changes cause an action potential (spike of electrical activity) within the brain. The firing continues in a chain-like fashion between cells until the desired result is achieved.
What some anticonvulsants do (although chemist is right--poorly understood so they are "suggested" to do) is block the calcium channels in the brain so this little exchange can not happen. This effectively controls epilepsy which are "electrical storms" of neurons firing within the brain.
It is presumed that by somehow stopping the firing in bipolar patients mood is improved. Particulary in removing mania. I like to think that mania is like mini electrical storms that affect one's moods--not just the physical aspect of our bodies. That's just my imagination hard at work though :)
There are all sorts of theoretical links beween epilepsy and bipolar (comorbid condtions in a sample of the population) and I myself have suffered from (undiagnosed) simple partial seizures.
Not all anticonvulsants work this way, however. Gabapentin/Neurontin increases the levels of GABA (gamma aminobutyric acid) within the brain. The role of GABA is a different thing altogether.
One of the main functions of GABA is to control voluntary movement in the limbic system etc... This is obviously not the desired effect for bipolar. It also works in the creation of action potentials in conjunction with other excitatory/inhibitory neotransmitters (eg. glutamate, dopamine.) An increase in one collection will achieve the desired affect (either excitatory--making soemthing happen or inhibitory--stopping something from happening.) They can also cancel each other out making nothing happen.
I think GABA has an overall calming effect so it works similarly to serotonin. We must remeber that neurotransmitters do all sorts of things apart from mood stabilization. Many things that haven't even been discovered yet!
So that's a basic overview of neuroanatomy and physiology 101! Does that help at all?
Karen
Posted by Civ on May 13, 2004, at 13:50:20
In reply to Re: Calcium homeostasis Mood disorders, posted by T_R_D on May 13, 2004, at 12:28:01
Yes, thanks. That helps. It's a very interesting topic.
Posted by chemist on May 13, 2004, at 16:57:49
In reply to Re: Calcium homeostasis Mood disorders, posted by T_R_D on May 13, 2004, at 12:28:01
indeed! many thanks, and all the best, chemist
Posted by T_R_D on May 14, 2004, at 9:43:23
In reply to Re: Calcium homeostasis Mood disorders » T_R_D, posted by chemist on May 13, 2004, at 16:57:49
Thanks guys...I just completed a first year Anatomy and Physiology course so it's nice that I have actually retained some of it LOL.
I love the human body and how it works. I'm working towards a career change and want to get my BSc. in Nursing.
Karen
Posted by T_R_D on May 14, 2004, at 9:48:10
In reply to Re: Calcium homeostasis Mood disorders » T_R_D, posted by chemist on May 13, 2004, at 16:57:49
Oh, one more thing! I just wanted to add that I don't think calcium supplements are going to help too much with mood stabilization. I don't think it crosses the blood-brain barrier.
It works better for your bones and osteo although it can help with sleep (eg. the warm milk scenario.) Also, if you are going to take calcium be sure to have magnesium as a adjunct. It helps along with the absorption process.
For what it's worth. however, calcium before bed hasn't done squat for me! And in the recent past, I noticed it was giving me heartburn...how's that for weird!
Posted by jane d on May 16, 2004, at 21:35:26
In reply to Re: Calcium homeostasis Mood disorders » Civ, posted by chemist on May 12, 2004, at 12:03:49
There are some other sources of information in listed in these posts from a couple of years ago.
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20021012/msgs/123469.html
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20030402/msgs/216072.html
Jane
Posted by chemist on May 16, 2004, at 22:35:56
In reply to Re: Calcium homeostasis Mood disorders » chemist, posted by jane d on May 16, 2004, at 21:35:26
> There are some other sources of information in listed in these posts from a couple of years ago.
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20021012/msgs/123469.html
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20030402/msgs/216072.html
>
> Janethanks, jane, for the info! all the best, chemist
Posted by sac on May 17, 2004, at 16:15:49
In reply to Re: Calcium homeostasis Mood disorders » jane d, posted by chemist on May 16, 2004, at 22:35:56
Hi, I'm just joining this thread and wondering if anyone knows the link between calcium and depression. I am a 36 year old female with Bipolar II. I know that I probably need a calcium supplement for bone protection but every calcium tablet I've tried ends up making me terribly depressed and also throws off any mood stability I may have. I am very sensitive to meds and even to vitamins and minerals. They can really mess me up mentally. My Pdoc doesn't think calcium could do this. Any info??? Thanks.-Stacey
Posted by chemist on May 17, 2004, at 16:27:48
In reply to Calcium supplementation caused depression, posted by sac on May 17, 2004, at 16:15:49
> Hi, I'm just joining this thread and wondering if anyone knows the link between calcium and depression. I am a 36 year old female with Bipolar II. I know that I probably need a calcium supplement for bone protection but every calcium tablet I've tried ends up making me terribly depressed and also throws off any mood stability I may have. I am very sensitive to meds and even to vitamins and minerals. They can really mess me up mentally. My Pdoc doesn't think calcium could do this. Any info??? Thanks.-Stacey
hello there....are you taking just a calcium supplement or a calcium+magnesium supplement? all the best, chemist
Posted by sac on May 18, 2004, at 20:53:17
In reply to Re: Calcium supplementation caused depression » sac, posted by chemist on May 17, 2004, at 16:27:48
> hello there....are you taking just a calcium supplement or a calcium+magnesium supplement? all the best, chemist
>Recently, I was taking a liquid calcium citrate + magnesium supplement (also w/vitamin D). In the past I have also just tried calcium alone and with both, I have become depressed???
Posted by SLS on May 18, 2004, at 21:04:42
In reply to Re: Calcium supplementation caused depression » chemist, posted by sac on May 18, 2004, at 20:53:17
I once swallowed a bunch of calcium pills to see what it would do. My depression almost immediately got worse - much worse. I didn't feel like repeating the experiment.
- Scott
Posted by chemist on May 18, 2004, at 21:44:24
In reply to Re: Calcium supplementation caused depression » chemist, posted by sac on May 18, 2004, at 20:53:17
>
> > hello there....are you taking just a calcium supplement or a calcium+magnesium supplement? all the best, chemist
> >
>
> Recently, I was taking a liquid calcium citrate + magnesium supplement (also w/vitamin D). In the past I have also just tried calcium alone and with both, I have become depressed???helloe there....check out an article very pertinent to this in today's new york times:
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/18/health/nutrition/18brod.html
all the best, chemist
Posted by sexylexy on June 18, 2004, at 18:48:44
In reply to Re: Calcium supplementation caused depression, posted by SLS on May 18, 2004, at 21:04:42
Hey Everyone!
I know that this is an older post but I hope someone gets it! I a while back (like march) about the same problem with calcium. I was feeling stable from depression and started taking vitimans including and extra calcium. Within a few days I was extremely depressed and bawling my eyes out. Stopped the calcium...the depression lessened, stopped all the vitamins stabilized again. I spoke to a dietician about it who said that this was an impossible phenomena...whatever... Just wanted to share my thoughts!!
All the best,
Lexy
Posted by Dr. Bob on June 22, 2004, at 7:26:14
In reply to Re: Calcium supplementation caused depression, posted by sexylexy on June 18, 2004, at 18:48:44
> I a while back (like march) about the same problem with calcium...
Sorry to interrupt, but I'd like to redirect follow-ups regarding Calcium to Psycho-Babble Alternative. Here's a link:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20040613/msgs/358920.html
Thanks,
Bob
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