![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 25. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Rainee on May 3, 2004, at 14:40:07
so now I'm on lamictal, klonopin and effexor.. I always responded to ssris but over time they gave out .. so we will see what this effexor does.
anyone have good stories about effexor?Thanks,
Rainee
Posted by rainyday on May 3, 2004, at 14:57:34
In reply to Effexor added..success stories please!, posted by Rainee on May 3, 2004, at 14:40:07
I started on effexor last October for bipolar 2 and GAD. It took 12 weeks for the side effects to subside and the benefits were muich more apprent. It has really helped with both problems. I did have to add Wellbutrin to the mix as a higher dosage of effexor made my blood pressure too high.
But for me it has made a huge difference in my day to day life.
Goodluck
Posted by traps on May 3, 2004, at 16:00:15
In reply to Effexor added..success stories please!, posted by Rainee on May 3, 2004, at 14:40:07
I've been on Effexor since Last summer for anxiety. I'm just coming off the meds right now.
I was having panic attacks left and right and it was very scary and crippling. I was not even able to get out of bed and leave my appartment at some points.
My doc then suggested I try Effexor XR along with cognative therapy. The max dose I was on was 112.5mg which is not really that extreme...but it still helped me immensly. I was able to do the things I loved again, and gain loads of confidence. I was on top of the world.
The thing with anti-depressants/anti-anxiety meds is that they ARE A BAND AID FIX. Don't get fooled. There is ALWAYS a root to the problem burried deep in your sub-conscious. I know it sounds like crap but that changed when I started with my pyschotherapy sessions. I started to understand that my life was NOT perfect and learned how to deal with shit and not pack it away into my brain...only to come up and bother me again...only double.
Without Effexor XR I would not have been able to calm down and understand what my problems were...but without psychotherapy I would not be able to come off the meds...because I wouldn't know how to recognize issues and deal with problems that will come up in the future.
My advice is Cognative therapy as well as Effexor. I am a new person now. I DO NOT lock things away in my sub-consious. I DO NOT fret and worry about imminent things anymore.
Effexor gave me the chance to fix my life temporarily. I wouldn't change a thing. Good luck.
Posted by SLS on May 3, 2004, at 16:30:53
In reply to Re: Effexor added..success stories please!, posted by traps on May 3, 2004, at 16:00:15
Hi.
> The thing with anti-depressants/anti-anxiety meds is that they ARE A BAND AID FIX.
> Don't get fooled. There is ALWAYS a root to the problem burried deep in your sub-conscious.
> I know it sounds like crap but that changed when I started with my pyschotherapy sessions.
I'm glad that you have been able to identify your problem as being rooted in a dysfunction psyche, especially if it allows you to treat it effectively. However, not everyone suffers from the same illness that you do.
Did you have any trouble discontinuing Effexor?
- Scott
Posted by Morgaine on May 3, 2004, at 18:32:16
In reply to Re: Effexor added..success stories please!, posted by traps on May 3, 2004, at 16:00:15
> I've been on Effexor since Last summer for anxiety. I'm just coming off the meds right now.
>
> I was having panic attacks left and right and it was very scary and crippling. I was not even able to get out of bed and leave my appartment at some points.
>
> My doc then suggested I try Effexor XR along with cognative therapy. The max dose I was on was 112.5mg which is not really that extreme...but it still helped me immensly. I was able to do the things I loved again, and gain loads of confidence. I was on top of the world.
>
> The thing with anti-depressants/anti-anxiety meds is that they ARE A BAND AID FIX. Don't get fooled. There is ALWAYS a root to the problem burried deep in your sub-conscious. I know it sounds like crap but that changed when I started with my pyschotherapy sessions. I started to understand that my life was NOT perfect and learned how to deal with shit and not pack it away into my brain...only to come up and bother me again...only double.
>
> Without Effexor XR I would not have been able to calm down and understand what my problems were...but without psychotherapy I would not be able to come off the meds...because I wouldn't know how to recognize issues and deal with problems that will come up in the future.
>
> My advice is Cognative therapy as well as Effexor. I am a new person now. I DO NOT lock things away in my sub-consious. I DO NOT fret and worry about imminent things anymore.
>
> Effexor gave me the chance to fix my life temporarily. I wouldn't change a thing. Good luck.Good advice and true, however some people might need to wear a band-aid most of their life, even with
therapy. I know, I just lost my therapist insurance, but will still continue on my effexor, I guess especially since I
no longer have therapy. I don't need to take another dive to the deep end under the circumstances. Do
you know what I'm saying?
Posted by traps on May 3, 2004, at 21:13:27
In reply to Re: Effexor added..success stories please! » traps, posted by SLS on May 3, 2004, at 16:30:53
Good points, I understand what you're saying. Depending on weather the anxiety/depression is physiological or psychological there are different theraputic methods. I was just saying that it is important to try to find out weather or not the illness IS physiological or psychological...it's a good starting point to trying to decide what type of therapy is right for you.
Here is an earlier post of mine describing how I'm weaning off.
____________________________________I'm weaning myself of Effexor XR. I was up to 112.5mg a day for anxiety. Since the smallest dosage you can take is 37.5mg, it is very difficult to quit this way with no side effects.
What I have been doing (after consulting with my doctor) is breaking the pill open and dividing the molecules depending on how much I want to some down...right now I'm on a quarter of a 37.5mg pill...I'm hardly feel and side effects with lowering my dose.
I would do something like this if you don't want to experience side effects from Effexor XR.
_______________________
37.5 - 2 weeks
Break open the pill and devide into the correct doses and eat with yogurt. Doesn't have to be exact but get it as close as possible.
18.75 - 2 weeks
9.4 - 2 weeks
4.7 - 2 weeksIf you want you can keep breaking the does down...but it should be ok from here...it takes a little longer this way...but no withdrawls. Good Luck!
Posted by CourtneyM on May 3, 2004, at 22:45:19
In reply to Re: Effexor added..success stories please!, posted by traps on May 3, 2004, at 21:13:27
Wow, thanks. I've posted several times tonight regarding weening off of Effexor. I've been on 75mg. for 6 months. Please see my other posts: CourtneyM tilted "Effexor Withdrawal" or something.
Did you consult your dr. with this? So you tore your pills apart? How did you store the broken capsules? I know that may sound silly, but I'm not visualizing it.
Thanks again. I've read such horror stories about the withdrawal from this drug.
Posted by traps on May 4, 2004, at 10:06:52
In reply to Re: Effexor added..success stories please!, posted by CourtneyM on May 3, 2004, at 22:45:19
I was on 112.5mg for about 2 months, then I started tapering down. 75mg for 2 months, 37.5mg for 2 months. Depending on your situation, don't make getting off the meds a race.
My doctor wanted me to go from 112.5mg to nothing in 2 weeks, but everything I have been reading has influenced me to do it a little differently.
So after consulting with my doctor this is what I decided to do after the 2 months of 37.5mg...
________________________________________________First off...buy yourself on of those pill seperators you can get at any drug store(Mon, Tues, Wed, etc.)
Then what you do is pull the 37.5mg pill apart and empty the contents (granules) onto a large flat surface...make sure you can see them though (they're really small).
Use a credit card or something to divide the granules in half by eye...it doesn't have to be exact but be as close as possible.
Place the granules in weekly pill seperator container, and throw away the capsules since they are no longer of use.
Now all you have to do is, when you normally take the pill, just place the granules in a teaspoon of yogurt and eat! That's all.
Then in the future when you decide to drop dose again...just devide the half piles in half again.
TAKE YOUR TIME THOUGH. Don't try to get off the pills too fast. I'm doing something like this and I'm experencing NO WITHDRAWALS:
18.7mg - 4 weeks
9.3mg - 2 weeks (currently here)
4.7mg - 2 weeksAfter that you can probably just quit...because theres only like 8 - 10 granules left. Good luck!
Posted by Sad Panda on May 4, 2004, at 12:05:56
In reply to Effexor added..success stories please!, posted by Rainee on May 3, 2004, at 14:40:07
Hi Rainee,
Effexor gave me an up mood in the first few days of starting it(75mg). I now take 225mg & 30 mg of Remeron which counters Effexor's side effects for me & gives me a great nights sleep. While this combo has given me a lot of good moods, it has been unable to increase my motivation. Currently I am waiting to see an endocrinologist to see if some Thyroxine can help me.
Cheers,
Panda.
Posted by Sad Panda on May 4, 2004, at 12:10:37
In reply to Re: Effexor added..success stories please! » traps, posted by SLS on May 3, 2004, at 16:30:53
> Hi.
>
> > The thing with anti-depressants/anti-anxiety meds is that they ARE A BAND AID FIX.
>
> > Don't get fooled. There is ALWAYS a root to the problem burried deep in your sub-conscious.
>
> > I know it sounds like crap but that changed when I started with my pyschotherapy sessions.
>
> I'm glad that you have been able to identify your problem as being rooted in a dysfunction psyche, especially if it allows you to treat it effectively. However, not everyone suffers from the same illness that you do.
>
> Did you have any trouble discontinuing Effexor?
>
>
> - Scott
>I actually agree that AD's are only a band aid. I am happy the Effexor has given me enough clarity to realise what & when my problems began. I only wish I could afford some therapy.
Cheers,
Panda.
Posted by SLS on May 4, 2004, at 14:39:38
In reply to Re: Effexor added..success stories please! » SLS, posted by Sad Panda on May 4, 2004, at 12:10:37
> I actually agree that AD's are only a band aid.Hi Panda.
I can guarantee you that you would scream differently if you had to walk a minute in my shoes.
My mind works fine. My brain is broken.
- Scott
Posted by Dauphine on May 4, 2004, at 15:05:06
In reply to Re: Effexor added..success stories please! » Sad Panda, posted by SLS on May 4, 2004, at 14:39:38
Hi All,
I started Effexor about 7 weeks ago and I am very pleased with the results. Effexor is my first AD, and I had no idea what to expect. I remember posting about a month ago asking what I would feel like when it started to work. The responses I got back were basically that it would be very subtle. One of the ways that I knew that it was working was that I was asking strangers (cashiers, waiters, random people) how their day was going. I would NEVER do that before. When my friends would call up to see I how I was, I would talk for hours about the small things that have happened to me recently (not just the horrible big stuff). And I started laughing again, not just at the sarcastic, dry stuff that I usually laugh at, but at lots of little things that I barely would have cracked a smile at before. I feel like it has brought me out of my head and more into what's going on around me. I have basically no side effects (sweating in the night mostly and increased BP) and am at a low dose 75 mg. My doctor said that the "theraputic dose" (150) is basically just the average dose that most people respond to, and that I could be on the bell curve in a different place -- I think he is right. I am also seeing a therapist and that is going really well. I feel like I can finally start to look at my life a little more objectively, so that I can learn how to deal better and not settle into the same patterns I always have. I know that Effexor might not work for everyone, but I feel that right now it is certainly working for me. It does make me a little miffed when I see some of the exaggerated posts about Effexor being such an evil drug. I'm sure that people have had serious problems with it, but that doesn't mean that in all cases you will be miserable on it. I found this board after I made the decision to start Effexor, and I'm glad that I didn't find it before, because there are more negative posts about Effexor than any other drug on here.
So with that, I would like to add a positive post to this thread -- Everyone is different, but sometimes it just takes a little kick in the butt that an AD can give you so that you dig yourself out of your hole and start experiencing a thing called hope again. I don't think I will need to continue Effexor for the rest of my life by any means, but for my situation, I certainly needed something to help me realize that my life is not something that I should consider losing. I actually look forward each week to meeting with my therapist!
Dauphine
Posted by Camille Dumont on May 4, 2004, at 15:23:25
In reply to Effexor added..success stories please!, posted by Rainee on May 3, 2004, at 14:40:07
Right now Effexor 300 + Celexa 20 is keeping me afloat.
Posted by Sad Panda on May 4, 2004, at 15:38:49
In reply to Re: Effexor added..success stories please! » Sad Panda, posted by SLS on May 4, 2004, at 14:39:38
>
> > I actually agree that AD's are only a band aid.
>
> Hi Panda.
>
> I can guarantee you that you would scream differently if you had to walk a minute in my shoes.
>
> My mind works fine. My brain is broken.
>
>
> - Scott
>I'm not disputing that your brain is or isn't broken, just saying that AD's are bandaids & that's just the nature of drugs, they are either a cure, like antibiotics, or a bandaid, like morphine. If you think that there is something physically wrong with your brain, then you will likely be taking AD's forever. I know what's wrong with me, but before taking AD's I only had a vague idea at best.
Cheers,
Panda.
Posted by CourtneyM on May 4, 2004, at 17:30:35
In reply to Re: Effexor added..success stories please!, posted by traps on May 4, 2004, at 10:06:52
You are very kind. Thank you for truly addressing my question. I've printed out your regime and plan to give it a try.
I too was experiencing some high anxiety and decided to take the meds to calm me down enough so I could start dealing with my situation. My hope is, of course, that the anxiety will not return once I'm off the meds. If it does, I feel that I've developed some strong coping tools. We'll see. While I think my anxiety is psychological, I am sometimes convinced it's physiological(especially when I'm in it) and the thought of being on medication my whole life, especially this one that has somehow made me feel dull and always sleepy, doesn't settle well with me. I've always prefer to go the natural route and ask the tough questions. I'm able to make an exciting move to a new place in July (a lot of thanks to Effexor) but I'd like to be fully awake for the new beginning. Moves are stressful, but I'm going to make a go of it sans AD.
Again, thank you thank you. I'm very grateful that I found your post. Best of luck getting off of that last bit of Effexor.
Posted by SLS on May 4, 2004, at 20:23:54
In reply to Re: Effexor added..success stories please! » SLS, posted by Sad Panda on May 4, 2004, at 15:38:49
Hi Panda.
:-)
> > > I actually agree that AD's are only a band aid.
> > I can guarantee you that you would scream differently if you had to walk a minute in my shoes.
> > My mind works fine. My brain is broken.> I'm not disputing that your brain is or isn't broken, just saying that AD's are bandaids & that's just the nature of drugs, they are either a cure, like antibiotics, or a bandaid, like morphine. If you think that there is something physically wrong with your brain, then you will likely be taking AD's forever.
I'm not sure I understand you here. I have been diagnosed as having bipolar depression. Are you telling me that I don't have anything physically wrong with my brain; that I might end up taking antidepressants forever simply because I believe that I need them although I really don't?
I think we may have a discrepancy in semantics. I would be disappointed to learn otherwise.
Perhaps we use the term 'bandaid' differently. When I have heard people use it in a manner similar to yours, they implied that the treatment being described was merely a temporary patch to manage outward symptoms rather than a means to treat the underlying pathology. Anxiety is often a symptom of depression. In this case, a benzodiazepine might target only this one symptom while an antidepressant targets the pathology. Perhaps, here, the benzodiazepine can be looked at as being a bandaid.
At this point, I would conclude that what you experience as depression is a phenomenon very different from mine. It would be appropriate to use two different words to describe them. Alas, we seem to use only one. As you describe yourself, it appears to me that you are stating that YOUR depression involves a psychogenic pathway that is essential for its evolution and perpetuation. MY depression involves a defect in neurological function for which the only essential components are biological. I have no issues otherwise. Fix my brain, and let me dance freely through life and experience the many joys of self-actualization. That's all. :-)
Here’s an analogy that just occurred to me.
Someone has the following symptoms:
hypertension
tachycardia
anorexia
shortness of breath
alopeciaDo you treat each symptom as you would the pain of cancer with morphine? You could treat the hypertension with Cozaar, the tachycardia with Inderal, the anorexia with cannabis, the shortness of breath with albuterol, and the alopecia with Rogaine. Are these 'bandaids' or 'cures' or something else? You could, instead, treat the underlying illness with propylthiouracil (PTU). You see, this person suffers from idiopathic hyperthyroidism. PTU inhibits the secretion of thyroid hormone. After starting this one medication, all of the symptoms resolve. However, the hyperthyroid state and symptom cluster return if the PTU is withdrawn. Is PTU a 'bandaid' or a 'cure' or something else?
> I know what's wrong with me, but before taking AD's I only had a vague idea at best.
I am unclear as to where you think I fit in. You seem to be very sure of where you fit in, but I don't think you can speak for everyone and say that antidepressants are merely temporary bandaids that allow them time to address the "true" psychological sources of their depression. I don’t know where you fit in, of course, but I am sure of where I do. I suffer from a brain disorder currently diagnosed as being bipolar depression.
Out of curiosity, what would you classify lithium as being when it is used to treat bipolar disorder? The term ‘bandaid’ just doesn’t work for me.
Sorry to be a pain in the butt, but semantics are important to me.
- Scott
Posted by Sad Panda on May 5, 2004, at 13:11:35
In reply to Re: Effexor added..success stories please! » Sad Panda, posted by SLS on May 4, 2004, at 20:23:54
Hi Scott,
I didn't mean to insult you, but I do think all the psych drugs are bandaids. I didn't think that I implied that you have no actual physical problem with your brain & I can't possibly know, but I can guess that there is since you are bipolar. Since there is no cure for bipolar people I can easily say that all the drugs that are in use to treat bipolar people are bandaids.
>Perhaps we use the term 'bandaid' differently. When I have heard people use it in a manner similar to yours, they implied that the treatment being described was merely a temporary patch to manage outward symptoms rather than a means to treat the underlying pathology. Anxiety is often a symptom of depression. In this case, a benzodiazepine might target only this one symptom while an antidepressant targets the pathology. Perhaps, here, the benzodiazepine can be looked at as being a bandaid.
>
>Benzos are aimed at GABA, SSRI's are aimed at Serotonin, only according to marketing is low Serotonin the reason for depression.
>I am unclear as to where you think I fit in. You seem to be very sure of where you fit in, but I don't think you can speak for everyone and say that antidepressants are merely temporary bandaids that allow them time to address the "true" psychological sources of their depression. I don’t know where you fit in, of course, but I am sure of where I do. I suffer from a brain disorder currently diagnosed as being bipolar depression.
>
>I think where we have our wires crossed is the original poster & I are talking about AD's in the treatment of unipolar depression, you are talking about bipolar people. In the general scheme of things, your illness is nothing like mine, your depression is a symptom of bipolar disorder, something you were born with, my depression is a culmination of lifes events & could probably treated with thearpy as equally well as drugs, maybe better. In the scheme of brain problems, your stablemates are the epileptics, mine are people that have PTSD, Panic disorder & probably all of the various Anxiety disorders.
>Out of curiosity, what would you classify lithium as being when it is used to treat bipolar disorder?
>
>It appears to be one of the mainstays for a lot of bipolar people, which doesn't say much for the other drugs that are used in BP.
Cheers,
Panda.
Posted by SLS on May 5, 2004, at 17:09:04
In reply to Re: Effexor added..success stories please! » SLS, posted by Sad Panda on May 5, 2004, at 13:11:35
Hi Panda,
> I think where we have our wires crossed is the original poster & I are talking about AD's in the treatment of unipolar depression, you are talking about bipolar people. In the general scheme of things, your illness is nothing like mine, your depression is a symptom of bipolar disorder, something you were born with, my depression is a culmination of lifes events & could probably treated with thearpy as equally well as drugs, maybe better.
I am in disbelief of what you have written. I think you are generalizing for everyone that which applies to you personally. I was tempted to debate you regarding the phenomenology of unipolar depression, but I decided to simply post the conclusions of the NIMH, National Institutes of Health.
“Evidence from neuroscience, genetics, and clinical investigation demonstrate that depression is a disorder of the brain”
http://www.nimh.nih.gov/publicat/depresfact.cfm
> In the scheme of brain problems, your stablemates are the epileptics, mine are people that have PTSD, Panic disorder & probably all of the various Anxiety disorders.
From where did you draw this dichotomy? Not only is this viewpoint wrong in my opinion, it also subverts and sabotages the treatments of those you place in the latter category. You declare that, “my depression is a culmination of lifes events & could probably treated with thearpy as equally well as drugs, maybe better.” You then group all of the anxiety disorders in with your own illness. I believe that to follow your construct, a great many people (not all) would be doomed to a lifetime of suffering, facilitated by the failure to recognize the target (neurobiological substrate) and shooting arrows at one that doesn’t exist (psychological pathology).
BTW, there are quite a few researchers who actually use the kindling model of epilepsy to explain anxiety disorders and depression, along with bipolar disorder.
> > Out of curiosity, what would you classify lithium as being when it is used to treat bipolar disorder? The term ‘bandaid’ just doesn’t work for me.
> It appears to be one of the mainstays for a lot of bipolar people, which doesn't say much for the other drugs that are used in BP.How so?
Not too long ago, I asked a question of a middle-aged woman who had languished in state mental hospitals for much of her adult life. She is now in remission taking only lithium. I asked her how she would react if someone were to tell her that there is no such thing as a magic pill. I’ve been told that many times. She said that she wouldn’t believe them. For her, lithium is a cure.
This thread should probably be split.
- Scott
Posted by Sad Panda on May 6, 2004, at 12:16:02
In reply to Re: Effexor added..success stories please! » Sad Panda, posted by SLS on May 5, 2004, at 17:09:04
> I am in disbelief of what you have written. I think you are generalizing for everyone that which applies to you personally. I was tempted to debate you regarding the phenomenology of unipolar depression, but I decided to simply post the conclusions of the NIMH, National Institutes of Health.
>
> “Evidence from neuroscience, genetics, and clinical investigation demonstrate that depression is a disorder of the brain”
>
> http://www.nimh.nih.gov/publicat/depresfact.cfm
>Hi Scott,
I'm a little short on time ATM, so I will read most of that link later, but this is in the second paragraph: "Genetics research indicates that vulnerability to depression results from the influence of multiple genes acting together with environmental factors." Too me that is saying exactly what I just said, 'enviromental factors' equates to my 'culmination of lifes events'. I know I am genetically predisposed to depression, but I would never have got depressed had things in my life not pushed me towards depression. I think this applies to the majority of people who have unipolar depression or anxiety disorders which are the type of people I am generalizing about.
> > In the scheme of brain problems, your stablemates are the epileptics, mine are people that have PTSD, Panic disorder & probably all of the various Anxiety disorders.
>
> From where did you draw this dichotomy?
>
>From the very simplistic reason that people with 'my type' of illness are treated with AD's primarily, where as bipolar people are treated with either Lithium or one of the many AED's. I have never heard of a person with unipolar depression being treated with Lamictal or Depakote, have you?
> Not only is this viewpoint wrong in my opinion, it also subverts and sabotages the treatments of those you place in the latter category. You declare that, “my depression is a culmination of lifes events & could probably treated with thearpy as equally well as drugs, maybe better.” You then group all of the anxiety disorders in with your own illness. I believe that to follow your construct, a great many people (not all) would be doomed to a lifetime of suffering, facilitated by the failure to recognize the target (neurobiological substrate) and shooting arrows at one that doesn’t exist (psychological pathology).
>I missed something here, how did I sabotage the treatments of those I place in the latter category?
> BTW, there are quite a few researchers who actually use the kindling model of epilepsy to explain anxiety disorders and depression, along with bipolar disorder.
>A few reaserachers believing in a model doesn't make something a fact.
> > > Out of curiosity, what would you classify lithium as being when it is used to treat bipolar disorder? The term ‘bandaid’ just doesn’t work for me.
>
> > It appears to be one of the mainstays for a lot of bipolar people, which doesn't say much for the other drugs that are used in BP.
>
> How so?
>
> Not too long ago, I asked a question of a middle-aged woman who had languished in state mental hospitals for much of her adult life. She is now in remission taking only lithium. I asked her how she would react if someone were to tell her that there is no such thing as a magic pill. I’ve been told that many times. She said that she wouldn’t believe them. For her, lithium is a cure.
>I didn't say Lithium was a bad thing, I've got no doubt that it's the best for many bipolars.
Cheers,
Panda.
Posted by SLS on May 7, 2004, at 8:12:56
In reply to Re: Effexor added..success stories please! » SLS, posted by Sad Panda on May 6, 2004, at 12:16:02
Hi Panda.
I'm not sure that we are that far apart except for the use of the term 'bandaid'. That word still sticks in my craw.
I am convinced that in the majority of cases, it is psychosocial stress that leads to the induction of depression (This is where the kindling model is offered as a possible explanation). However, once induced (kindled), the depression can take on a life of its own for which a somatic treatment is necessary to remedy. I think there is a spectrum of "recipes" for depression that includes varying contributions of the biological and the psychological. There is an incredibly complex interaction between biology and psychology. The brain determines the mind as the mind sculpts the brain.
I am trying to locate an old post of mine to post as a link. I can't seem to find it, but I have a rough draft that I used to compose it. I'll quote an excerpt:
----------------------------------------------------
BIOLOGY OR PSYCHOLOGY?
The best answer to this question may be "either and both".
Many of us here have been diagnosed as having a mental illness. Mental
illnesses are NOT mental weaknesses. The diagnoses that we are most
familiar with include:1. Major Depression (Unipolar Depression)
2. Bipolar Disorder (Manic Depression)
3. Dysthymia (Minor Depression)
4. Seasonal Affective Disorder (SAD)
5. Schizophrenia
6. Schizo-Affective Disorder
7. Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder (OCD)
8. Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD)All of these disorders have one thing in common. They are not our fault.
Each has both biological and psychological components. We all begin our
lives with a brain that is built using the blueprints contained within the
genes we inherit from our parents. Later, hormones change the brain to
prepare it for adulthood. The brain can be changed in negative ways by
things such as drugs, alcohol, and injury. The brain is also changed by
the things we experience.How we think and feel are influenced by our environment. Probably the most
important environment during our development is that of the family, with
the most important time being our childhood. We all have both positive and
negative experiences as we travel through life. How we are as adults is in
large part determined by these positive and negative experiences. They
affect our psychology, our emotions, and our behaviors. All of us can be
hurt by unhealthy negative experiences.Some of us are also hurt by unhealthy brains. Medical science has long
recognized that many mental illnesses are biological illnesses. Even
Sigmund Freud, who we know for his development of psychoanalysis, proposed
a role for biology in mental illness. The first solid evidence for this
concept in modern times came with the discovery of lithium in 1947.
Lithium was found to cause the symptoms of bipolar disorder (manic-
depression) to disappear completely, allowing people to lead normal lives.
Lithium helps to correct for the abnormal biology that is the cause of
bipolar disorder. Later biological discoveries included the observations
that the drug Thorazine (an antipsychotic) successfully treated
schizophrenia, and that Tofranil (an antidepressant) successfully treated
depression. Again, these drugs help to correct for the abnormal biology of
the brain that accompanies these illnesses.What about psychology? What role does it play in mental illness? This can
be a two-way street. The abnormal biology that occurs with some mental
illnesses affects our psychology – how we think, feel, and behave. On the
other hand, our psychology can also affect our biology. As we now know,
the emotional stresses and traumas we experience change the way our brains
operate. This is especially true of things we experience during childhood.
These stresses can trigger the induction of abnormal brain function that
leads to major depression, bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, and other
major mental illnesses. In order for this to happen, however, there must
be a genetic or some other biological vulnerability to begin with.
----------------------------------------------------Best wishes,
Scott
Posted by Sad Panda on May 7, 2004, at 18:15:22
In reply to Re: Effexor added..success stories please! » Sad Panda, posted by SLS on May 7, 2004, at 8:12:56
Hi Scott,
I guess bandaid is not exactly the correct term for AD's, but it does sum them up in one word for me. If you consider how hard it is for drug manufacturers to prove that their SSRI is any better than a placebo in a 'double-blind' test, then bandaid isn't too harsh.
Compared to Benzos, I don't think AD's rate any higher for various anxiety & panic disorders, they just treat it in a different way. I'm not a fan of Benzos myself, they quell any anxiety I might have, but I also find they depress my mood. Effexor has helped my anxieties in ways that I can't put my finger on, it has made me happier, but not in a natural way. I think my own good moods have stayed the same, but my low moods have been replaced with something that feels like an off day. So instead of having alternating good & bad moods, I have alternating good & sickly days, which is OK for me. Before taking AD's, I use to enjoy having a cold or flu, it sounds a little wierd but being physically sick relieved me of the guilt feelings that come in truckloads from having atypical depression.
Cheers,
Panda.
Posted by SLS on May 8, 2004, at 9:57:12
In reply to Re: Effexor added..success stories please! » SLS, posted by Sad Panda on May 7, 2004, at 18:15:22
> I guess bandaid is not exactly the correct term for AD's, but it does sum them up in one word for me.
I understand.
Perhaps each of us has a perspective biased by our own personal experiences with mood disorders.
- Scott
Posted by zeugma on May 8, 2004, at 10:42:24
In reply to Re: Effexor added..success stories please! » Sad Panda, posted by SLS on May 8, 2004, at 9:57:12
this is an interesting duel of metaphors.
my personal experience with depression and AD's, I suspect, is more like Scott's. the AD's go some way (not all the way, of course) to creating a configuration in the brain that resembles more closely what goes on in non-depressed people's brains- with the caveat that this is really a functional or 'black box' characterization- it leads to behavioral output that is more like 'normal' people's. Of course it does this by creating an imbalance of its own, and can only be a simulation of normality. But the simulation is real enough, to put it paradoxically, and isn't much like a band-aid, which is an artificial help to a process that works normally- the body's ability to close and cleanse wounds. Hemophiliacs need more than band-aids, if you see what i'm saying. Many depressives are like hemophiliacs (myself included). hemophilia doesn't go away, and saying "Why should hemophiliacs worry if they've got a band-aid at hand?" falls short of the mark. I am trying to use AD's deliberately, at this point, to make sure that I can get through the inevitable crises that come my way, just like hemophiliacs have quite an investment in making sure the blood bank is safely stocked and accessible.
Posted by zeugma on May 8, 2004, at 11:08:26
In reply to hemophilia and band-aids, posted by zeugma on May 8, 2004, at 10:42:24
Benzodiazepines are actually called 'band-aids' more than AD's, and I think this characterization is just as wrong. But I need to make a distinction I haven't made yet: just because something isn't a band-aid doesn't mean that it can't be USED as one. No doubt some use benzos and AD's to numb themselves to life, to feel better because of life circumstances, etc., and we can consider this a kind of 'emergency treatment' that is justified after the psychological equivalent of a car accident, but which is not addressing a core pathophysiology. I believe the SSRI's and benzos, and maybe the MAOI's can be used in this way, but the TCA's appear to be less useful for this purpose, and THAT more than anything is why they are used less (or rather, it is why AD's in general, and SSRI's/Effexor in particular, are used so much more. When I was on Pamelor in the late 80's none of my friends had ever heard of it and it carried a huge stigma, while prozac references and Zoloft commercials and Effexor radio ads are inescapable. <And, as an aside, that is part of why the amphibians are rapidly dwindling, because fluoxetine from bodily waste is interfering with their reproductive cycles.>
Peter Kramer is the epitome of a pedestrian mind, and his book "Listening to Prozac" is the epitome of a pedestrian book (I would rather see someone reading a trashy novel than anything he has written, for reasons of general humanity and moral insight) but he had a point when he said "There can never be a Ms. Pamelor or a Ms. Ascendin, but here is Ms. Prozac." Ms. prozac is someone using a band-aid. or maybe I should say, Peter Kramer is a psychologist whose insight extends skin deep, and and sees someone using what he sees as a band-aid, and thinks this is a major advance in the treatment of the mentally ill.
Posted by harryp on May 9, 2004, at 2:04:09
In reply to and about benzos, Peter Kramer, etc., posted by zeugma on May 8, 2004, at 11:08:26
I would avoid identifying that closely with a drug!
However I think there are more than a few Mr./Ms. Parnates and Nardils out there!
With all respect, I think the SSRI's and Effexor are used more because of marketing and the fact that they are safer in overdose.
There is no evidence that SSRI's or Effexor are more effective than TCA's, and a lot of evidence that they are frequently worse, both in SE's and efficacy. I've never seen or heard of a TCA or MAOI side effect/withdrawal story that could compare with the lurid Paxil/Effexor/misc. SSRI, Remeron, etc. horror stories that appear on this board in a perpetual stream.
Biochemically, all modern antidepressants are based on the "MAOI hypothesis"--that is they attempt to replicate various neurochemical effects of the MAOI's without the risk of hypertensive crisis.
It seems well known at the higher levels of psychopharmacology that the MAOI's are overall the most effective AD's known, but no one admits this (even to new psych residents) because they are such a liability nightmare.
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.