![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 8 to 32 of 32. Go back in thread:
Posted by waterfall on March 21, 2004, at 19:40:52
In reply to Re: Bi Polar disorder » waterfall, posted by Pandabear on March 21, 2004, at 19:27:56
As I have been where it sounds like you are, I'm going to just go for it here.
> I want to take my lamictal but not the trazodone.
It is completely up to you what drugs you take. If you don't like a drug it is not only your right but your responsiblity to yourself to decide whether to take it based on what it does for you, not based on what someone else wants.
>She said that most bipolar people like to stay up late at night...IM Sorry but just because someone stays up late at night does NOT make them bipolar...does it?
No, it does not. Irregular sleep patterns are normal for every person on the planet at one time or antoher in their life. Temporary sleep patterns does not a life-time illness make.
>My therapist and i have a good relationship and if I went in telling her that i wasnt taking the medicine, she would flip out...she might not show it when im in there but, she would get really upset when i left...
When I told my doctor that I was going to move forward with not taking the drugs she had prescribed and that I had consulted another therapist and another psychiatrist before coming to this decision she was unhappy. She was huffy. She acted insulted that I would choose something for myself that she didn't agree with. Those were her emotions and her problem. Your responsibility is to yourself alone. I know how hard it is to displease a therapist. Believe me. I thought I would have to move to another town to get out from under her at one point. So please try to hear me when I say that your feelings are the only ones that matter. She is not your friend. She is not your lover. She is not your mother. This is a clinical relationship and your feelings are the important ones. And while it may feel like the world will come to an end if she gets angry, trust me, IT WON'T!!
>I just dont want to upset anyone but I dont want to take it. Im not seeing what they are aparently seeing and yet they wont tell me..so im stuck.
Feel free to trust yourself! Your feelings about yourself and your mental health issues are the most important ones. A doctor's opinion is just that - an opinion. An educated opinion, true, but not more real than your own feeligns about yourself and your body.
Posted by ramsea on March 22, 2004, at 4:17:37
In reply to Re: Bi Polar disorder » Pandabear, posted by waterfall on March 21, 2004, at 19:40:52
Regarding sleep, of course it's true that everyone can have disrupted sleep. The problem for true bipolars is that disrupted sleep patterns are part of the illness--and many a manicky type person will tell you how delicious they found their burning the candle at both ends was--until they fell off the cliff. Bipolar is a very serious illness and yet many do want to deny that they have this---who wants to have a very serious lifelong disorder to worry about? You don't necessarily stay on meds the whole time--some may, many take med vacations. It is only important if you ARE actually bipolar. For that, are you up for some self-education? Like read up on Medscape, do a Google search, check dr.bob for links in the past, and the library for tons of books on the subject. If you fail to see yourself in any of these places, and a 2 and maybe 3 opinion doesn't offer more info that you find useful, maybe you are not bipolar. Frankly, I think your pdoc should be offering more to you by way of explnanation. In general, more people are NOT dx bipolar when they neeed to be, than arepeople falsely dx.
But of course mistakes are always possible. That is why being a bit self-educated on the subject will help you to guard your health. And that is more your responsibility than it is the doctors. One more thing---have you read the list of criteria for dx bipolar? It might be useful to see if you think any of that applies to you. I believe About.com under Bipolar has a site with the pdoc criteria. Good luck.
Posted by Sad Panda on March 22, 2004, at 4:49:30
In reply to Re: Bipolar question? » oskarsmom, posted by Pandabear on March 21, 2004, at 18:33:54
> I am on two ad right now..lamictal and trazodone...and yet they dont seem to think its a bad thing to be on it..and yet at the same time they are considering wether or not im actually bipolar...im so confused.
>Hi Pandabear,
Lamictal isn't an AD, it is a mood stabilizer that has mild AD effects. If you have no problems taking it, it would be great for you.
Trazodone is a very weak AD that is good for sleep, sleep is important to BiPolars becuase poor sleep can cause full blown Mania. I'd consider it optional if your sleep is already good.Cheers,
Panda.
Posted by Pandabear on March 22, 2004, at 16:17:37
In reply to Re: Bipolar question? » Pandabear, posted by Sad Panda on March 22, 2004, at 4:49:30
I decided to discontinue the trazodone. I didnt take it last night. I realize that it isnt a good idea to discontinue something but, I have only taken it for 3 days...so i think im safe.. I left a message telling them what I have done and Im sure they wont be pleased but, I still believe that i dont need to be taking a medicine that i feel is not helping me. I have NO PROBLEM sleeping. And, my mood is good other than being completely frustrated with everything. Maybe im wrong in my thinking but im sure they will let me know...just trying to do what i feel is the right thing for me.
Posted by oskarsmom on March 22, 2004, at 18:13:04
In reply to Re: Bipolar question? » oskarsmom, posted by Pandabear on March 21, 2004, at 18:33:54
Lamictal is a mood stabilizer with anti-depressant properties. Trazadone is an anti-depressant mainly used for sleep. ADs are safer to take if you are taking a mood stabilizer at the same time. If you have no problems with sleep and get at least 7 hrs a night you probably don't need the Trazadone.I agree with the others. Go to the library and read, especially the DSM IV (used by pdocs to diagnose). and other sources. And as someone else said, people are often misdiagnosed with another problem when they actually have bipolar. The thing to do is get a proper diagnosis: BP or not. That's the right time to start the right meds.
oskarsmom (Bipolar II, misdiagnosed with dysthymia and major depression for nine years(!))
Posted by snapper on March 23, 2004, at 0:34:09
In reply to education, posted by ramsea on March 22, 2004, at 4:17:37
http://www.psycheducation.org might be of significant importance to you!
snapper
Posted by Pandabear on March 23, 2004, at 11:30:36
In reply to Re: education, posted by snapper on March 23, 2004, at 0:34:09
THANK YOU SO MUCH!
Posted by snapper on March 23, 2004, at 13:42:47
In reply to Re: education » snapper, posted by Pandabear on March 23, 2004, at 11:30:36
You are so welcome !
S
Posted by Pandabear on March 26, 2004, at 15:22:00
In reply to Re: education, posted by snapper on March 23, 2004, at 13:42:47
Ok, so Im slowly educating myself about BiPolar disorder..but I still dont believe that i have it! I had my session with my therapist yesterday and she said that I do have it and that I have been really hard to diagnose but that I had two options..one is to go to a bipolar support group or to get a second opinion. Im going to get a second opinion. I just do not believe that I have it. She told me that people that are diagnosed with the disorder usually do not believe that they have it...and well...i dont believe it. My dad is going to come into my session and get "educated" because he doesnt believe that I have it either...Im so frustrated and confused. I stopped taking my trazodone and seroquel because the seroquel was making me to groggy and the trazodone wasnt putting me to sleep and now...my depression is coming back because im so overwhelmed with everything. I dont know who to believe or what to believe anymore. They know that i am not taking anything at night to help me sleep...but I can tell that it has changed my mood..BUT, I still dont want to take it because I believe that I dont have it and I dont want to be putting a drug in my body that I feel I dont need. Im so frustrated. I dont know if I am doing right...I know what bipolar disorder looks like and yet I dont want to think that I have it. I dont know what is wrong with me. Im so lost. She asked me if I was feeling depressed and I said no but that I was eventually going to start feeling that way and she asked me if I was feeling suicidal and I said no...But, I had this feeling last night that I was going to take more than one pill of lamictal and that kind of scared me. It was just a thought that raced through my mind...but I didnt do it. Im just so confused. I dont want them freaking out and thinking that if they cant get me to believe that im bipolar and they cant get me to take my medicine that they will put me in the hospital. Im taking the lamictal..but nothing to help me sleep...I feel like im being punished when I take the medicine because it forces me to sleep. ...Im so upset. :(
Posted by waterfall on March 26, 2004, at 17:43:21
In reply to Re: education, posted by Pandabear on March 26, 2004, at 15:22:00
I'm really proud of you for sticking to your guns! Your most important asset in a clinical relationship is your ability to continue to make your own decisions and not become lulled into believing everythign your therapits says because they are the therapist. Continue to think for yourself and you are a lot more likely to come to decisions you can live with.
I doubt you'll be hospitalized for refusing to take medicaiton if you have the backing of your family. Fleeting suicidal thoughts are not indicative of intention. If you are in danger of killing yourself, you won't have to wonder if its real or not.
BEst of luck with your decisions!
P.S. I hated seroquel, too.
Posted by Sad Panda on March 27, 2004, at 0:37:47
In reply to Re: education, posted by Pandabear on March 26, 2004, at 15:22:00
Hi Pandabear,
Hang in there buddy, we are an endangered spieces!! :)
Have you ever tried AD's like Prozac or Zoloft?
Can you tell us all your symptoms? (Sorry if I missed it the first time)Cheers,
Panda.
Posted by Pandabear on March 27, 2004, at 6:36:46
In reply to Re: education » Pandabear, posted by Sad Panda on March 27, 2004, at 0:37:47
My symptoms are...depression, anxiety, obsessive/cpulsive tendencies, I worry a lot, and the thing that made them believe that i was bipolar was that, my mind was racing, i was having trouble sleeping at night, I started driving at night late at night when I couldnt sleep....I am irritable.....
My mind racing has stopped and my driving around late has stopped...I only do it when im really anxious... I dont know ..maybe I am bipolar...I told her I just dont want to believe it because this has been how i have been all my life and I have always been just fine...but obviously she is thinking differently...
Posted by Sad Panda on March 27, 2004, at 11:26:44
In reply to Re: education » Sad Panda, posted by Pandabear on March 27, 2004, at 6:36:46
> My symptoms are...depression, anxiety, obsessive/cpulsive tendencies, I worry a lot, and the thing that made them believe that i was bipolar was that, my mind was racing, i was having trouble sleeping at night, I started driving at night late at night when I couldnt sleep....I am irritable.....
>
> My mind racing has stopped and my driving around late has stopped...I only do it when im really anxious... I dont know ..maybe I am bipolar...I told her I just dont want to believe it because this has been how i have been all my life and I have always been just fine...but obviously she is thinking differently...
>
>
>Hi Pandabear,
Are you Anxious & irritable at different times as when you are depressed, or do all 3 happen at the same time? With BP2 hypomania is optional and can instead show up as negative energy such as irritability & agitation. BP2 people spend most of their time depressed. BP1 is the original Manic Depressive illness where a person will have full blown mania attacks.
Have you ever been given an SSRI(Prozac, Paxil, Celexa, Zoloft, Luvox, Lexapro) without any other drugs? This often drives Bipolar people into mania.
Cheers,
Panda.
Posted by Pandabear on March 27, 2004, at 11:58:19
In reply to Re: education » Pandabear, posted by Sad Panda on March 27, 2004, at 11:26:44
I was given paxil first and it didnt work ...then lexapro..and it didnt work...(I have been on 8 different medications trying to find the right one) and Now, im on Lamictal and supposedly seroquel that im NOT taking anymore. My irritability and depression pretty much happen at the same time...I become irritable and then it leads into depression because when im irritable..people get upset with me...at it depresses me...THEN people are upset with me that Im depressed...Its a never ending cycle. But, I though I had hypomania and maybe that is it...Is Hypomania BP2? If so..then that is what I have I guess..
Posted by Sad Panda on March 27, 2004, at 12:33:35
In reply to Re: education » Sad Panda, posted by Pandabear on March 27, 2004, at 11:58:19
> I was given paxil first and it didnt work ...then lexapro..and it didnt work...(I have been on 8 different medications trying to find the right one) and Now, im on Lamictal and supposedly seroquel that im NOT taking anymore. My irritability and depression pretty much happen at the same time...I become irritable and then it leads into depression because when im irritable..people get upset with me...at it depresses me...THEN people are upset with me that Im depressed...Its a never ending cycle. But, I though I had hypomania and maybe that is it...Is Hypomania BP2? If so..then that is what I have I guess..
>Having hypomania alternating with depression is BP2. The speed in mood change can be as short as hours to as long as years. Hypomania is being overly talkative & being in an extra good mood for no apparent reason but you know something is not right.
If you have irritability/agitation or hypomania that ALTERNATES with depression and anxiety then that is probably BP2.
If you have irritability, depression & anxiety at the same time, that is Depression.
The biggest difference is the treatment. BP2 people need mood stabilizers first & then maybe an AD. Stick to Lamictal & slowly increase it until it irons out your hypomania's or big dose of irrits. Depressed people need AD's first, but mood stabilizers can help later.
Can you list the meds that you have tried that didn't work?
Cheers,
Panda.
Posted by Pandabear on March 27, 2004, at 14:02:23
In reply to Re: education » Pandabear, posted by Sad Panda on March 27, 2004, at 12:33:35
My medicines included...Paxil, Effexor, Lexapro, Trileptal, Depakote, Seroquel, and Trazodone..Now im taking Lamictal and it seems to be helping..but they want a mood stablizer...seroquel was working but it was making me to groggy...
Posted by francesco on March 28, 2004, at 18:05:06
In reply to Re: education » Sad Panda, posted by Pandabear on March 27, 2004, at 14:02:23
You all seem very well informed on this issue so I would like to ask you something.
The only hypomaniac episode I have were dued to taking meds or discontinuing meds.
I get irritable when I'm on antidepressants while I'm not usually irritable when I'm not on them.
Does this make me a bipolar III ? Should I take a mood stabilizer before taking an antidepressants ?
And, more important, what are exactly racing thoughts ? (I'm not mother-language)
I change my mind every half an hour or so, is this a sign of bipolarism ?I have ADHD too or something like. Thanks to everbody !
Posted by Pandabear on March 28, 2004, at 19:29:44
In reply to bipolar questions from francesco » Pandabear, posted by francesco on March 28, 2004, at 18:05:06
Ok, Francesco, I can try and answer the racing thoughts...For me, when I have them, it is like I am thinking out loud and I can see and hear everything inside of my head that I am thinking at that time. At one point, my thoughts were flying through my head so fast, and everything was so loud that I had to lay down and try and sleep and even still, I couldnt sleep because my mind would not shut off. Another way to look at it is...When you lay down to sleep at night, normally your mind is to shut down so that you can fall asleep. When your mind is racing, it is impossible to go to sleep and you lay there wide eyed and unable to go to sleep due to the fact that your thoughts are going 90 miles a minute..and you are thinking about more than one thing.. For me it was like being very excited about something and thinking about everything ..yet I wasnt excited about anything...I just couldnt stop my thoughts and I got to the point where I was so worked up and frustrated that I ended up being given something to help me sleep. There is medicine that can stop your mind from racing...and it does work. I cannot say though that your racing thoughts makes you bipolar though...maybe someone else can answer that...I hope that this made sense..it is hard to describe..but it is extremely frustrating and I found that with my family members..they didnt understand...heck, I didnt even understand racing thoughts until i experienced it and it is very frustrating for me. I hope I helped some...if not..im sorry... Take Care and I hope you are able to find the answers you are looking for!
PandaBear
Posted by PoohBear on March 29, 2004, at 11:34:15
In reply to Re: bipolar questions from francesco » francesco, posted by Pandabear on March 28, 2004, at 19:29:44
Panda and Francesco:
I can answer regarding the racing thoughts as it's something I've had most of my adult life.
It takes *more* than racing thoughts to make one bipolar; there are a number of other issues, mainly having to do with manic/depressive cycling.
Effexor XR was what stopped the racing thoughts for me. You've all probably seen this, but here is the poem I wrote regarding this:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/write/20040102/msgs/306852.html
I also have ADHD and am now taking Adderall XR for that. I take Seroquel at night to help me sleep and for mood stabilization.
My pDoc is treating me as if I were atypical bipolar. I don't really fit in either category of BPI or II, and I definitely don't have med induced mania, so I'm not a BPIII. I have bipolar disease in my mother's side of my family history.
Tony
> Ok, Francesco, I can try and answer the racing thoughts...For me, when I have them, it is like I am thinking out loud and I can see and hear everything inside of my head that I am thinking at that time. At one point, my thoughts were flying through my head so fast, and everything was so loud that I had to lay down and try and sleep and even still, I couldnt sleep because my mind would not shut off. Another way to look at it is...When you lay down to sleep at night, normally your mind is to shut down so that you can fall asleep. When your mind is racing, it is impossible to go to sleep and you lay there wide eyed and unable to go to sleep due to the fact that your thoughts are going 90 miles a minute..and you are thinking about more than one thing.. For me it was like being very excited about something and thinking about everything ..yet I wasnt excited about anything...I just couldnt stop my thoughts and I got to the point where I was so worked up and frustrated that I ended up being given something to help me sleep. There is medicine that can stop your mind from racing...and it does work. I cannot say though that your racing thoughts makes you bipolar though...maybe someone else can answer that...I hope that this made sense..it is hard to describe..but it is extremely frustrating and I found that with my family members..they didnt understand...heck, I didnt even understand racing thoughts until i experienced it and it is very frustrating for me. I hope I helped some...if not..im sorry... Take Care and I hope you are able to find the answers you are looking for!
> PandaBear
Posted by francesco on March 29, 2004, at 14:40:56
In reply to Re: Racing Mind questions from Francesco and Panda » Pandabear, posted by PoohBear on March 29, 2004, at 11:34:15
I'm likely to have bipolar issues and so my next move will be likely to go on an anticonvulsivant. My straight question is: is it possibile to feel joy while on them ? Have you ever experienced it or you just feel stabilized ? Thanks
Posted by PoohBear on March 29, 2004, at 15:26:35
In reply to question for anyrbody on a mood stabilizer » PoohBear, posted by francesco on March 29, 2004, at 14:40:56
> I'm likely to have bipolar issues and so my next move will be likely to go on an anticonvulsivant. My straight question is: is it possibile to feel joy while on them ? Have you ever experienced it or you just feel stabilized ? Thanks
I would say that my experience with Seroquel has been VERY positive, much better than Topamax. I can't really think of any side effects: my moods have been more moderate and my sleep has been better.I would say that I do NOT feel flat with the combo of Effexor/Seroquel/Adderall. I feel that the sadness I was burdened with is gone, but I do experience joy, something I thought I would NEVER be able to do. I laughed my head off yesterday at a joke I played on my 18 year-old son...
Does that help?
Tony
Posted by francesco on March 29, 2004, at 15:38:42
In reply to Re: question for anyrbody on a mood stabilizer » francesco, posted by PoohBear on March 29, 2004, at 15:26:35
Could it be the Adderall ? ;-) Just kidding
I will check out info on Seroquel ... Anyway thanks, you've been helpful ... In the last one year and a half I didn't manage to do anything but changing doctors and meds. Now I'm tired and I wanna go back to the good life. It misses me too much
Posted by waterfall on March 29, 2004, at 17:40:04
In reply to question for anyrbody on a mood stabilizer » PoohBear, posted by francesco on March 29, 2004, at 14:40:56
Now off of mood stabilizers (tried Lithium then spent 10 years on Depakote) and anti-depressants I would say that while I could feel happy, true joy was not there. There was a certain vitality that was just gone. It was worth not being so depressed I couldn't work or live alone, but now that I'm not miserable I'm very glad to be off the meds as its more than just the very highs and very lows that the meds stop - whole ranges of perfectly normal and healthy feelings aren't there. On the bright side (??) you don't realize what you're missing when you're on them. You remember that you felt more, but its not dreadfully pressing. I wouldn't recommend it for a lifetime, though.
> My straight question is: is it possibile to feel joy while on them ? Have you ever experienced it or you just feel stabilized ? Thanks
Posted by francesco on March 31, 2004, at 16:28:02
In reply to Re: question for anyrbody on a mood stabilizer, posted by waterfall on March 29, 2004, at 17:40:04
> Now off of mood stabilizers (tried Lithium then spent 10 years on Depakote) and anti-depressants I would say that while I could feel happy, true joy was not there. There was a certain vitality that was just gone. It was worth not being so depressed I couldn't work or live alone, but now that I'm not miserable I'm very glad to be off the meds as its more than just the very highs and very lows that the meds stop - whole ranges of perfectly normal and healthy feelings aren't there. On the bright side (??) you don't realize what you're missing when you're on them. You remember that you felt more, but its not dreadfully pressing. I wouldn't recommend it for a lifetime, though.
>
I liked very much the part in which you say: you don't realize what you're missing when you're on them. It's quite the same as an example for all the antidepressants that lessen sexual desire or sexual sensations. I have been on Zoloft for just a week so far and my libido seems to be gone. But I can't miss it since I can't remember exactly how it used to be !!! Are mood stabilizers supposed to be curative after a long usage ? I mean, I don't think antidepressants are curative, but is it a different kind of story for the mood stabilizers ? They normalize something or what ?
(sorry for my weird english, I'm not motherlanguage)
Posted by waterfall on March 31, 2004, at 17:46:35
In reply to Re: question for anyrbody on a mood stabilizer » waterfall, posted by francesco on March 31, 2004, at 16:28:02
Mood stabilizers are not curative. I came to believe I was misdiagnosed bi-polar. The only way to check is to go off the mood stabilizers, so I did (I'm fine, btw, after 5 months, except for anxiety).
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.