![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 20 of 20. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Torque on March 26, 2004, at 21:55:21
I would like some folks to weigh in here and list what their favorite benzo of choice now that Xanax can be taken once a day. Please provide the following:
Benzo:
Dosage:
Time of dosage:
Why perscribed:
If taken in combination with other drugs list them:
Satisfaction level, 1 being the lowest level, 10 being the ultimate:
Duration on Benzo:
Posted by Ame Sans Vie on March 27, 2004, at 13:58:12
In reply to Xanax XR vs Klonopin, posted by Torque on March 26, 2004, at 21:55:21
> I would like some folks to weigh in here and list what their favorite benzo of choice now that Xanax can be taken once a day. Please provide the following:
Gladly. :-)
Benzo: Klonopin (generic -- Teva brand clonazepam)
Dosage: 8mg dailyTime of dosage: 3mg @ 6:00AM, 2mg @ noon, 3mg @ 6:00PM
Why prescribed: Social phobia, avoidant personality disorder, agoraphobia, occasional panic attacks, mild-moderate generalized anxiety disorder
If taken in combination with other drugs list them:~Adderall XR (amphetamine/dextroamphetamine salt combo)-- 60mg in the morning primarily for depression, but also to treat adult residual ADD (downgraded from my childhood ADHD), impulsiveness, and hot temper.
~Euthroid (liotrix/T3 + T4)-- I was just prescribed this yesterday at 3 grains each morning for mild hypothyroidism.
~Avapro (irbesartan)-- 150mg before bed for Stage I hypertension.
~Seconal (secobarbital)-- 800mg as needed for sleep, or...
~Somnote (chloral hydrate)-- 1,500mg as needed for sleep.
~Delsym (dextromethorphan polystirex)-- 60mg each morning as an antagonist of N-methyl-D-aspartate (NMDA), it prevents tolerance from developing to the amphetamines.
~Alka-Seltzer Gold (sodium citrate/potassium citrate)-- two effervescent tablets in water four times daily as a urinary alkalinizer to prolong the effects of the amphetamines.
~Tums (calcium carbonate)-- two Tums six times daily as a gastrointestinal alkalinizer to increase the effects of the amphetamines.
~K-Dur (potassium chloride)-- 100mEq each morning because I'm on a very restricted carbohydrate diet and barely get any potassium from my food.
~Many, many OTC supplements-- picamilon, a very potent time-released vitamin/mineral/green foods/etc. supplement (Ultra Vita Man brand), sublingual B-multivitamins, sublingual B-12/B-6/folic acid/biotin (TriVita brand), niacinamide, pantothenic acid, pyridoxal-5-phosphate, vitamin C w/rose hips, vitamin E, glutathione, resveratrol, selenium, chromium polynicotinate, zinc, magnesium taurinate, pregnenolone, CoQ10, acetyl-L-carnitine, L-tyrosine, L-tryptophan, TMG (trimethylglycine/betaine), DMAE (dimethyl-amino-ethanol), omega-3, Supercritical Stress Advantage (schizandra, American ginseng, eleuthero, rhodiola, Curcuma xanthorrhyza, Alpinia galanga, turmeric, astragalus, ginger), Cholvex Advanced Cardio Support Formula (niacin, citrus pectin, soy protein isolate, phytosterols, citrus bioflavonoids, inositol), and many different individual herbs on an as-needed basis (except for rosemary, gotu kola, and myrrh, of which I drink an infusion everyday) such as American ginseng, angelica, basil, betony, birch, blue lotus, calamus, calendula, California poppy, cardamom, cedarwood, Roman chamomile, German chamomile, cinquefoil, clove, comfrey, coriander, damiana, dill seed, elder flower, eleuthero, eucalyptus, eyebright, fennel, feverfew, silver fir, flax, frankincense, ginger, hawthorn, hazel, heather, holly, horehound, hyssop, ivy, jasmine, juniper, kanna, lavendar, lemon balm, lemongrass, lemon verbena, lilac, loosestrife, lotus, mace, Mahakea kava root, marjoram, meadowsweet, melissa, mullein, mint, mistletoe, myrtle, oak, oakmoss, opium poppy bulb, Oriental ginseng, rose, rowan, saffron, sage, spearmint, star anise, sunflower, tea tree, thyme, valerian, vervain, violet, wild dagga, willow, witch hazel, wormwood, yarrow, and ylang-ylang.
Satisfaction level, 1 being the lowest level, 10 being the ultimate: 10
Duration on Benzo: 3 years
Posted by utopizen on March 27, 2004, at 17:49:33
In reply to Re: Xanax XR vs Klonopin, posted by Ame Sans Vie on March 27, 2004, at 13:58:12
Not to dwell on your very determined regimen of taking amphetamines at 20mg/day beyond the PDR daily dose that is recommended, or that many of the symptoms you describe are potentially "negative symptoms" associated with a state of schitzophrenia, a very severe disorder that you may or may not have yet could receive benefit through a trial of Abilify over--
Kava is extremely toxic on the liver. My p-doc was the one who came out with this FYI to the new media in 2000. Please be careful, and let your doctor know of everything you're taking.
And given your hyptensive condition, I would be concerned to take as many herbals as you list, if you were me, IMHO. Simple flowers have magical powers.
But taking 60mg of Adderall when you have a hypertensive condition, then combining that with an urinary alkanizer? Besides the fact that some Xantac is far more hi-tech at doing this than some Alka-Selzter, and that I do it now and then, um, have you tried switching to a different stim, like Desoxyn, instead of trying to possibly go all-for-nothing on a stimulant that might not be the best choice for you, hence the need for you to take 60mg?
In general practice, it's considered preferred to switch a patient to a different stimulant than increase the patient's dose beyond the recommended amount.
The fact that you're on Adderall for a host of issues concerns me. I started Adderall two years ago at 40mg/day in two divided doses. Now I don't respond to it like I use to, and I barely respond to the Desoxyn I get prescribed at 50mg/day, and use to fare quite well if not better at just 20mg/day last spring to it. I of course take it for sleepiness, but I'm suspecting I've actually got depression. And let me tell you, after awhile, it stops working for depression, fancy NMDA modulating augmentations or not.
Treat your underlying issues while you still can with a light antidepressant+some Abilify at a low dose for a couple of months, maybe with or without Straterra, perhaps Provigil as well.... if you want to. You've been on the benzos for awhile, that's not an atypical thing. But even at 8mg, how cool and collected can you possibly be if you feel the need to augment it with Kava, or have insomnia? I'm not judging, but do you exercise? I don't, but I'm about to next week. It's not like these don't have side-effects--
if you can do something for your depression and insomnia through exercise, I'd take that idea seriously, but it's up to you. Remember, walking just 20-25 minutes 3x/day is just as helpful to your stress as running, so don't get intimidated. And if you exercise, insomnia may be treatable easier with less powerful agents. Are you combining this with CBT? I'm concerned, you sound like me a year ago.
Posted by utopizen on March 27, 2004, at 17:52:09
In reply to Xanax XR vs Klonopin, posted by Torque on March 26, 2004, at 21:55:21
Xanax XR is a terrible benzo. I took 3mg to switch from my 1mg 3x/day of Klonopin. It was highly ineffective, and only worked at 6mg.
If you're concerned about convenience, Klonopin wafers are far more easier to take anyway. They melt in your mouth and are fast-acting. They'd both be brand name, so you may as well go for the Wafers if you're going to pay the co-pay. Many insurance companies don't cover Xanax XR, but mine did. I'm on Wafers now, and am much happier.
Posted by CareBear04 on March 27, 2004, at 18:24:28
In reply to Re: Xanax XR vs Klonopin ?Torque, posted by utopizen on March 27, 2004, at 17:52:09
i have to agree that xanax xr is an overhyped waste of money. i take 4mg of xanax a day, so when i was on the xr, i took a 2mg pill twice a day. it definitely didn't work as well as the regular xanax. xanax xr is more subtle than klonopin, which is itself pretty subtle-- you don't feel it starting to work like you do with the shorter-acting benzos.
Posted by Torque on March 27, 2004, at 22:33:59
In reply to Re: Xanax XR vs Klonopin, posted by CareBear04 on March 27, 2004, at 18:24:28
Thanks guys for your posts. I take 1 mg of klonopin at bedtime. I do notice that generic Teva is less effective for me. You know the old saying around here "YMMV". I'm a lousey sleeper and Xanax gets hyped some much, I was considering switching. The wafers sound interesting though since, I'm paying for brand name anyway.
TORQUE
Posted by Viridis on March 28, 2004, at 0:05:28
In reply to Xanax XR vs Klonopin, posted by Torque on March 26, 2004, at 21:55:21
In my limited experience (but a few years of benzo use now), the best mix for me is Klonopin daily (absolutely smooth, no side effects whatsoever, same dose for three years) plus Xanax as needed. I find Xanax great for fast anxiety relief, but unlike Klonopin, if I take Xanax often at all I develop tolerance. Not addiction etc. -- I just need more to achieve anxiety relief. So I reserve Xanax for "special" situations. I have all that I need but only take it a couple of times a month.
I'm talking regular Xanax, and have never tried the XR form. But based on my experience, I'd stick with Klonopin as a daily anti-anxiety med and be cautious with Xanax until you know how you react.
Posted by utopizen on March 28, 2004, at 0:17:32
In reply to Re: Xanax XR vs Klonopin » Torque, posted by Viridis on March 28, 2004, at 0:05:28
Last semester, I was really stressed out about my sleepiness during the day, which led me to feel very stressed about sleeping at night. I was suppose to take 1mg 3x/day of Klonopin, but often almost always took 3mg at night only, sacrificing my daily relief from social anxiety while dangerously getting myself tolerated to any relief from the Klonopin. Soon enough, within a semester's time, 4mg quickly became just enough to put me to sleep, if I was lucky.
Now, I use self-hypnosis on my iPod, only go to bed at a regular time, never try to make up for lost sleep by trying to sleep earlier at night (it will never work and guarantee insomnia), and am about to exercise soon. And I wake up at the same time each day, regardless of how much I slept the night before.
Hope everything works out. TEVA is the better of the generics, try to avoid PurePac. I found Teva very potent. Never had Klonopin brand name tablets, but am on the wafers now.
If you are only using it to sleep, which I don't advise unless you're bipolar or something like that and you're trying to slow things down, there's no use in using brand name. Personally, using CBT is most effective for insomnia, if you follow their advice, which is often hard to do-- never skipping regular meals, going to sleep at a regular time, using sleep restriction (delaying the time you sleep until the time you on average actually sleep at) exercising, and socializing with people you like... that sort of thing.
Insomnia is sort of a symptom that you can't stop your day because you're afraid of facing the next without resolving what's already on your plate... I don't know, I just got sick of ordering Ambien for $160 when I am flat broke as a student and see sleep docs who won't prescribe the stuff, and refuse to use Klonopin anymore for my sleep, because the sedating effects create tolerance so rapidly.
Posted by CareBear04 on March 28, 2004, at 10:23:00
In reply to Klonopin for sleep? be careful, posted by utopizen on March 28, 2004, at 0:17:32
hey there,
when you took klonopin for sleep, did you find that it's really h ard to wake up in the morning? i've tried all sorts of combinations of sleep meds, and now i'm supposed to take 2mg of klonopin for sleep. i did this last night and couldn't wake up until ttwelve hours later.regarding the efficacy of generics-- i know i've gotten at least two different kinds, but i don't know which is teva and which is purepac. heres what i have--
-light yellow round, somewhat thick 0.5 mg and blue same shape 1 mg
-darker yellow, round but flat 0.5 mg and light green 1mgdo you know which is which type of generic? i'm just curious because i've heard lots about what type works better, and i have a hypothesis about which is the teva, but i'd like to know for sure.
thanks!
cb
Posted by BobS, on March 28, 2004, at 18:07:36
In reply to Re: Klonopin for sleep? be careful » utopizen, posted by CareBear04 on March 28, 2004, at 10:23:00
I have never used Klonopin, but tried the Xanax XR version and didn't like it. Recently, I felt like I was slipping into depression and foolishly started taking Zoloft, been there done that before with Prozac and Paxil. I thought I was going to die on Zoloft and that was with slow titration 12.5mg 4 days 25mg 4 days 37.5 mg 4 days and then quit. Zoloft caused horrible anxiety, which is what I needed help with in addition to mild to moderate depression.
I was house bound, so I tried the Xanax XR again being at wits end as follows: 1mg every 8 hours (3mgs)for several days, then 1 mg in the morning and 1 mg in the evening, with .25 mg regular Xanax prn. After about 3 or 4 days I started feeling normal, reduced to 2 mg XR (1 morning 1 night) and really felt good on the XR regimen as described above. It has been two weeks now and the combo of XR and regular prn is really working. Total Xanax intake, both XR and regular, is 2.5 mg.
If your pdoc will prescribe XR and regular, try this approach, you may find it as effective as I have.
Regards,
BobS.
Posted by awatts on March 28, 2004, at 19:00:25
In reply to Re: Xanax XR vs Klonopin, posted by Ame Sans Vie on March 27, 2004, at 13:58:12
I agree with just about all of the advise you've been given by this group. I'd also like to see you dump the Seconal down the toilet. A slight overdose can sometimes be deadly, especially in combination with certain other substances. There are much safer alternatives.
I'm not a doctor, but I'd sure like to talk with yours.
Posted by Ame Sans Vie on March 28, 2004, at 19:19:04
In reply to Re: Xanax XR vs Klonopin, posted by utopizen on March 27, 2004, at 17:49:33
> Not to dwell on your very determined regimen of taking amphetamines at 20mg/day beyond the PDR daily dose that is recommended,....
60mg is the max dose recommended by the FDA when amphetamine is used to treat narcolepsy. And it is pretty widely agreed upon by psychiatrists who prescribe stimulants that the important thing is, once you find a pstim that provides some benefit, you should push the dose to achieve maximum benefit from it while still lacking significant side effects. Also, there's the body weight factor -- 60mg is technically a rather small dose for someone my size.
> ...or that many of the symptoms you describe are potentially "negative symptoms" associated with a state of schitzophrenia, a very severe disorder that you may or may not have yet could receive benefit through a trial of Abilify over--
The symptoms more perfectly match a profile for atypical depression, several anxiety disorders, and mild-moderate ADD. I've never experienced episodes of strangely altered thought process, flat affect, etc. Antipsychotics just don't agree with me, and in my opinion, should never be taken unless a psychotic/manic condition is apparent. You know what they say -- if it ain't broke...
And I can quite honestly say that it hasn't been "broke" ever since the switch from DextroStat to Adderall XR.
> Kava is extremely toxic on the liver. My p-doc was the one who came out with this FYI to the new media in 2000. Please be careful, and let your doctor know of everything you're taking.
My doctor is very aware of all remedies I take --he and my nutritionist work in tandem in that regard. Regarding the kava, I suppose I should have specified that I only drink it occasionally, as a substitute for alcohol, along with a blend of well-established potent liver tonic herbals. I definitely wouldn't drink it everyday.
> And given your hyptensive condition, I would be concerned to take as many herbals as you list, if you were me, IMHO. Simple flowers have magical powers.
Well, one other thing I should have made clearer is that the long list of herbs I posted is just what I currently have in my cabinet. Naturally I don't take them on a regular basis -- they're simply alternative treatments that, for example, can act as external or internal antibiotics/antivirals, laxatives, metabolic stimulants, nervous system tonics for extreme stress or anger, etc. And many of them have at least a mild antihypertensive property to boot. I've been monitoring my B/P five times daily, and it seems to do just fine. In fact, my doctor advised me just today, after hearing my recent readings, to begin taking only a half-tablet of Avapro daily. My hypertension was only mild to begin with.
> But taking 60mg of Adderall when you have a hypertensive condition, then combining that with an urinary alkanizer?
Apparently it's the Adderall that's causing the mild hypertension. I never had it before. I figure so what if I have to take an additional medication to combat that side effect so long as I am actually a fully-functional human being.
>Besides the fact that some Xantac is far more hi-tech at doing this than some Alka-Selzter,
Ranitidine is an H2-blocker... it alkalinizes the gastrointestinal tract, but not the urine. I've looked into this. Same goes for Tagamet (cimetidine) and Pepcid (famotidine).
>and that I do it now and then, um, have you tried switching to a different stim, like Desoxyn, instead of trying to possibly go all-for-nothing on a stimulant that might not be the best choice for you, hence the need for you to take 60mg?
I gave Desoxyn a try, but Medicaid will only pay for 100 immediate-release amphetamines per month. In my case, that pays for 11 days worth of the amount of Desoxyn that truly helps, and paying such an ungodly amount for the rest is just financially out of the question at the moment. Perhaps if Able Labs' methamphetamine HCl is affordable, I'll switch, but that's still up in the air as I feel Desoxyn and Adderall are both very helpful to me in somewhat different ways. I think my body's grown used to the Adderall and I don't know if it makes sense to rock the boat at this point.
While on the subject of finances and meds, I just want to say real quick that the Medicaid limits on amphetamines are what prompted my doctor to finally endorse the urinary alkalinization thing so as to keep my dose affordable (Medicaid covers 30 extended-release amphetamines monthly, so I still have to pay for half the prescription out-of-pocket).
> The fact that you're on Adderall for a host of issues concerns me. I started Adderall two years ago at 40mg/day in two divided doses. Now I don't respond to it like I use to, and I barely respond to the Desoxyn I get prescribed at 50mg/day, and use to fare quite well if not better at just 20mg/day last spring to it. I of course take it for sleepiness, but I'm suspecting I've actually got depression. And let me tell you, after awhile, it stops working for depression, fancy NMDA modulating augmentations or not.
Well, poop-out is a phenomenon seen with many psychotropic drugs -- it doesn't necessarily indicate a buildup of tolerance to the amphetamine effect. NMDA-antagonists *are* extremely effective in combatting tolerance -- so much, in fact, that several new narcotic/dextromethorphan preparations are about to hit the market (e.g. MorphiDex [morphine/DXM]). But not everyone responds to everything, and I'll just stick with what works and keep my fingers crossed that things continue on the path they have the past six or so months.
> Treat your underlying issues while you still can with a light antidepressant+some Abilify at a low dose for a couple of months, maybe with or without Straterra, perhaps Provigil as well.... if you want to.
The vast majority of antidepressants are all an absolute no-no for me, except for Prozac which really didn't seem to do a whole lot of anything at all; I already gave my opinion of unnecessary neuroleptic administration above. Provigil is something that I just gave another shot and it didn't do a thing for me this time around... Strattera is still an option, as are Edronax, Aurorix, and Stablon. But once again, I'm just not comfortably putting yet more drugs into my body at this point when I seem to have achieved a sort of homeostasis.
>You've been on the benzos for awhile, that's not an atypical thing. But even at 8mg, how cool and collected can you possibly be if you feel the need to augment it with Kava, or have insomnia?
Well I already explained my kava use above; as for insomnia, it's a distinct disorder, separate from my anxiety/phobic issues. The Klonopin simply doesn't address it, and lately since I've been in ketosis I've rarely felt the need to take Seconal or Somnote.
>I'm not judging, but do you exercise? I don't, but I'm about to next week. It's not like these don't have side-effects--if you can do something for your depression and insomnia through exercise, I'd take that idea seriously, but it's up to you. Remember, walking just 20-25 minutes 3x/day is just as helpful to your stress as running, so don't get intimidated. And if you exercise, insomnia may be treatable easier with less powerful agents.
I just started exercising again last week when my nutritionist and I decided it was time to really restrict the carbs down to zero for a bit. I just wake up with so much *physical* energy that I have to go for a quick jog at 5:00AM and then perhaps lift some weights in the afternoons. Believe it or not, I really *am* hoping (and quite confident, I might add) that this healthy lifestyle will allow me to decrease dosage and/or eradicate certain medications from my regimen completely.
> Are you combining this with CBT? I'm concerned, you sound like me a year ago.
Well, I've failed many forms of talk therapy before (CBT included -- several times), but my psychiatrist himself is making me sort of a "special case" and providing CBT for me during my regular appointments.
Posted by Ame Sans Vie on March 29, 2004, at 13:17:09
In reply to Re: Xanax XR vs Klonopin, posted by awatts on March 28, 2004, at 19:00:25
> I agree with just about all of the advise you've been given by this group. I'd also like to see you dump the Seconal down the toilet. A slight overdose can sometimes be deadly, especially in combination with certain other substances. There are much safer alternatives.
>
> I'm not a doctor, but I'd sure like to talk with yours.My doctor's absolutely one of the best (and believe me -- I've seen my share of them). No sleep aids work for me outside the (ultra) short-acting barbiturate, chloral, sodium oxybate, or narcotics spectrum.
Things I've tried that didn't work: zolpidem, zaleplon, triazolam, temazepam, flurazepam, estazolam, quazepam, flunitrazepam, bromazepam, clonazepam, alprazolam, diazepam, lorazepam, oxazepam, chlordiazepoxide, clorazepate, midazolam, phenobarbital, mephobarbital, butalbital, butabarbital, lithium, gabapentin, tiagabine, lamotrigine, valproate, topiramate, metaxalone, methocarbamol, tizanidine, carisoprodol, meprobamate, paraldehyde, glutethimide, codeine/morphine, hydrocodone/hydromorphone, oxycodone/oxymorphone, dihydrocodeine/dihydromorphine, meperidine, pentazocine, butorphanol, propoxyphene, methadone, levorphanol, tramadol/o-desmethyltramadol, fluoxetine, paroxetine, fluvoxamine, sertraline, citalopram, escitalopram, venlafaxine, nefazodone, doxepin, imipramine, amoxapine, maprotiline, clomipramine, phenelzine, risperidone, olanzapine, clozapine, sulpiride, quetiapine, thioridazine, stelazine, chlorpromazine, perphenazine, loxapine, haloperidol, pramipexole, melatonin, L-tryptophan, 5-HTP, kava, passion flower, hyssop, hops, thyme, melissa, scullcap, acupuncture (both with and without moxibustion), electroacupuncture (also with and without moxibustion), aromatherapy (with one key exception, noted below), massage, exercise several hours before bed, and cutting out caffeine, MSG, aspartame, and other excitotoxins. I'm sure I'm forgetting at least a few, and also I should note that a number of these were prescribed/self-administered for other purposes than insomnia but are occasionally purported to be useful for such (e.g. muscle relaxers, antidepressants, antipsychotics, anticonvulsant/mood-stabilizers, narcotic analgesics)
Things I've tried that worked briefly and don't any longer: diphenhydramine, mirtazapine, amitriptyline, cyclobenzaprine, trazodone, and a combination valerian/California poppy extract.
Things that work intermittently: essential oil of clary sage (in aromatherapy -- it always induces a state of euphoria and relaxation resembling both cannabis and opium that is sometimes accompanied by extreme drowsiness, but sometimes CNS stimulation)
Things that will put me to sleep unquestionably: secobarbital, amobarbital, secobarbital/amobarbital combination, pentobarbital, barbiturate anesthetic adjuncts (i.e. thiopental sodium), chloral hydrate, chloral betaine, methaquaalone (though I've only had it in the methaquaalone/diphenhydramine combination pill, "Mandrax"), fentanyl, certain narcotic anesthetic adjuncts (i.e. alfentanil, sufentanil, remifentanil), and sodium oxybate. Unfortunately I can't afford sodium oxybate, or I'd take it over secobarbital and chloral in a New York minute.
Obviously, the barbs and chloral are my safest options (aside from sodium oxybate, which is probably the safest of all the drug treatments I listed). There's no chance of overdose as I, for one thing, have no desire to do so, and just as a precautionary measure I have my mother hold on to the bottles of Seconal and Somnote, while I only keep a single night's supply of each on hand in case the need arises (which it hasn't lately; I've restarted a very-restricted carbohydrate diet and I always sleep well while in a state of ketosis). Besides, past attempts (around three years ago) to overdose on barbiturates were ridiculously unsuccessful for me; for my most recent attempt at suicide (March 2001), I took fifty 65mg phenobarbital along with twenty 100mg phenobarbital and 90mg alprazolam (5,900mg phenobarbital -- Heaven's Gate cult members used around 2,500mg with wine if I recall correctly; and they didn't take a month's supply of Xanax as well). It didn't even faze me. I eventually just decided to go to sleep but woke up just fine six hours later with a mild barbiturate hangover. I don't remember the specifics of most of the other times, and many incidences didn't involve barbiturates, but once I remember taking 3 grams phenobarbital, 3.5 grams carisoprodol, and 12mg alprazolam 40mg along with 40mg bumetanide, 25mg carvedilol, and 40mg isosorbide (in hopes that they would stop my heart if the downers didn't stop my breathing). Again, same response as before. Just went to sleep and woke up with a mild phenobarbital hangover.
I really do appreciate any concern -- it's one of the many things I love about these forums. But in this case the concern is misplaced. I've been at this game for eight years now and have always researched my medications extensively, checked up on my doctors' credentials, and always monitor my condition for any signs of something gone awry. My doctor confers with a group of colleagues at the University of Houston concerning all his patients, and they all are in agreement that this is the best course of action for me for three reasons -- 1. it works like a charm, 2. not a side effect in sight, and 3. I am so incredibly treatment-resistant that such an unorthodox and aggressive therapy is absolutely necessary.
Posted by theo on March 30, 2004, at 15:11:15
In reply to Re: Klonopin for sleep? be careful » utopizen, posted by BobS, on March 28, 2004, at 18:07:36
I tried Zoloft and quit and am taking Xanax XR also. I've been sober for about a year and never realized how much anxiety Zoloft caused me. I tried Zoloft several years ago and I guess the alcohol masked the side effects because I could not tolerate it even after several weeks.
Posted by utopizen on March 30, 2004, at 19:45:48
In reply to Re: Xanax XR vs Klonopin » utopizen, posted by Ame Sans Vie on March 28, 2004, at 19:19:04
Posted by utopizen on March 30, 2004, at 19:50:22
In reply to Re: Klonopin for sleep? be careful » BobS,, posted by theo on March 30, 2004, at 15:11:15
I tried Xyrem for my narcolepsy, and trust me-- it is the worst possible med to try for insomnia. It causes insomnia for the first few months while you titrate the dose, because you can't start at the dose effective for putting you to sleep until your body is adjusted (unless you want to sleep but wake up to vomitting, as I immaturately did a few times).
I think it also led to depression, as I didn't go to many of my classes first few weeks. And I had to spend $1500 on Botox surgery for my arms just because it gave me excessive perspiration even Drysol wouldn't help.
I thought it was cool, but it wasn't. I have a whole bottle of it, haven't touched it in a month, don't plan to. It made me unstable, gave me the worst insomnia of my life, and just made me a mess in general because of how it affected my sleep by not letting me go to sleep.
Posted by Ame Sans Vie on March 30, 2004, at 23:27:03
In reply to Atkins=depression (nm) » Ame Sans Vie, posted by utopizen on March 30, 2004, at 19:45:48
That's a tad on the misleading side, to say the least. The overwhelming majority who go on Atkins (and do it RIGHT) experience incredible increases in mood and energy that stick with you as long as you stick with the diet. There is a ton of older research hypothesizing different means by which low-carb could equal great increase in quality of life, and recently new research has been released. Only a small percentage of unfortunate people who follow the diet *by the book* (as in literally -- "Dr. Atkins' New Diet Revolution") find the effects disagreeable. But I've definitely done more than my fair share of sticking up for the low-carb lifestyle in the past few years, so I'll just let mounds of clinical studies, the AMA, the NIH, and half the United States' overweight/obese population speak for themselves.
Posted by crazychickuk on March 31, 2004, at 2:26:55
In reply to Re: Atkins=depression, posted by Ame Sans Vie on March 30, 2004, at 23:27:03
Atkins is great i feel great on it.. i am taking fish oils along with my low carb diet and my remeron... lots of energy
Posted by utopizen on March 31, 2004, at 15:50:32
In reply to Re: Atkins=depression, posted by crazychickuk on March 31, 2004, at 2:26:55
yup, those misleading folks at MIT got it all wrong... serotonin has nothing at all to do with depression, it's all about omega-5!
Researchers have revealed that following the Atkins diet can stop the brain regulating serotonin. This can lead to mood swings and depression.The research was carried out at MIT (Massachusetts Institute of Technology, USA).
They found that a diet high in protein and low in carbohydrates undermines the brain’s ability to regulate serotonin.
According to Dr. Judith Wurtman, study leader, carbohydrates naturally raise levels of serotonin, a neurotransmitter. This makes people feel contented.
They studied 100 volunteers who were on various different diets. Some were on high protein diets, others were on high carb diets.
They discovered that the brains of the volunteers only produced serotonin after they had eaten a sweet or starchy carbohydrate.
Posted by Ame Sans Vie on March 31, 2004, at 18:55:59
In reply to Re: Atkins=depression, posted by utopizen on March 31, 2004, at 15:50:32
And you're making the same incorrect assumption that most so-called medical professionals do -- that depression always has to do with low serotonergic activity. How do you explain Stablon (tianeptine)?
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.