![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 21 of 21. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by f l y on March 26, 2004, at 23:31:53
it seems that everybody is bi-polar these days. in one way or another everyone finds a way to apply the definition to their symptoms.
best to ya,
fly
Posted by snapper on March 27, 2004, at 1:34:47
In reply to Bi-Polar Popularity !, posted by f l y on March 26, 2004, at 23:31:53
hey fly, thats pretty funny and I am really starting to realzie that I think it is an epidemic---like the people who introduced us to the magical ssri's 15 or so years ago ,,knowing that they would mess with our already mal-adaptive bio-chemistry and wah-laaa!! Thes little pills make people into crazy raving psychotic, lunatics, and guess what you "ALL NEED MOOD STABILIZERS" WITH YOUR SSRI"s. ($$$$$$)
No seriously I agree with you it does seem ultra-popular now days to find out that many of the people you know are either bi-polar or multi-polar or what ever- or maybe it's just that life has gotten to damn stressful and it appears that it's next to impossible to cope with all of it's stresses and what not - I mean ,God my 9 yr old niece is bi-polar (ultra rapid cycling) whats up??? something is wrong with this picture !!lol
IT MUST BE IN THE VERY FOOD AND WATER WE DRINK!!!
GOOD LUCK TO YA
SNAPPER
Posted by PsychoSage on March 27, 2004, at 4:59:31
In reply to Re: Bi-Polar Popularity !, posted by snapper on March 27, 2004, at 1:34:47
we tend to find each other. I think it has to do with our personalites among other things. half of us have substance abuse/alcohol abuse histories, so there is another way to find other members of the BP club. well, we are on this website, so that makes us likely to come across more of us in number. We comprise 1-5% of the population in the world. That seems tiny, but if it's 5% of the world then there are a few hundred million of us running around and many million in this country alone. As many asian people you see around are as many bipolars there are around likely, since they make up 2-4% of the US population.
If we didn't find people like ourselves in life, then it would be a very lame life.
Posted by linkadge on March 27, 2004, at 6:42:03
In reply to Re: Bi-Polar Popularity !, posted by PsychoSage on March 27, 2004, at 4:59:31
The funny thing is that the people who just want a lable and a pill will get one. But the people who are genuinly bipolar are likely the ones that are not getting the proper treatment.
I think it is bothersome that a *fad* could possibly confound the diagnosis of a true disorder.
The degree of suffering difference between a bratty tempertantrum child, and a raving psychotic are large but in our efforts to
"catch" these disorders in time, every hint of
a disorder is being hit with medication.But I wouldn't worry too much. The ones who "just want to try the next drug" are the ones who drop the drug at the slightest side effect.
The amount of times I have heard "I'd rather be depressed than have no sex life" go to reafirm my suspiciions.
Linkadge
Posted by redmaryjane on March 27, 2004, at 8:30:39
In reply to Re: Bi-Polar Popularity !, posted by linkadge on March 27, 2004, at 6:42:03
Geez...I can't imagine choosing to be bipolar if it is indeed a fad. I would much rather be sane right now that have a great sex life, be thin, etc... I can't imagine dropping my meds from weight gain or for sexual reasons. It's the mood stabilizers which are keeping me from killing myself in a crazy mixed episode right now. Again, I do not wish this upon anyone. I think there is a BIG difference between depression and manic depression. I think most people can't imagine feeling so f-d up that they would even consider suicide. But I think those of us who have experienced mixed states know better. It's not a pleasant place to be.
Posted by greywolf on March 27, 2004, at 10:07:18
In reply to Bi-Polar Popularity !, posted by f l y on March 26, 2004, at 23:31:53
Surprise, surprise. You come to a psychiatric-related website and you find a bunch of bipolar people. Hmmmm . . . what's next, going to ESPN.com and discovering football fanatics?
Seriously, though, the number of people actually diagnosed bipolar is bound to be much fewer than those who call themselves bipolar. The DSM criteria and other standards can be read to bring many people into the range, but an accurate dx is often rather difficult. My docs wouldn't dx it for over 3 years.
Posted by terrics on March 27, 2004, at 16:34:15
In reply to Bi-Polar Popularity !, posted by f l y on March 26, 2004, at 23:31:53
Yep! Bipolar or Borderline. terrics
Posted by PsychoSage on March 27, 2004, at 18:49:27
In reply to Re: Bi-Polar Popularity !, posted by greywolf on March 27, 2004, at 10:07:18
> Surprise, surprise. You come to a psychiatric-related website and you find a bunch of bipolar people. Hmmmm . . . what's next, going to ESPN.com and discovering football fanatics?
>
> Seriously, though, the number of people actually diagnosed bipolar is bound to be much fewer than those who call themselves bipolar. The DSM criteria and other standards can be read to bring many people into the range, but an accurate dx is often rather difficult. My docs wouldn't dx it for over 3 years.why not? do you have other diagnoses?
Posted by lepus on March 27, 2004, at 21:56:57
In reply to Re: Bi-Polar Popularity ! » f l y, posted by terrics on March 27, 2004, at 16:34:15
> Yep! Bipolar or Borderline. terrics
A combo platter of both seems to be very popular right now too. I'm in a DBT class and EVERYONE is bipolar as well! Makes me scratch my head...
Posted by greywolf on March 27, 2004, at 22:54:16
In reply to Re: Bi-Polar Popularity ! » greywolf, posted by PsychoSage on March 27, 2004, at 18:49:27
Psychosage:
It was treated for a long time as recurrent depression, along with OCD. After a couple years of increasingly interfering manic episodes, they concluded that it was BPII.
My only point was that I know people who've never even seen a doc, yet go around telling others they're bipolar. I've also heard people claim the BP dx after one or two visits. I've always been curious as to how that can come to pass since my layman's education on the subject suggests that a reliable dx of BPII is difficult in a short period of time, and often requires well over a year of experience before it can be made. I'm sure BPI is different.
Posted by redmaryjane on March 27, 2004, at 23:41:45
In reply to Re: Bi-Polar Popularity !, posted by greywolf on March 27, 2004, at 22:54:16
Just for the record, my BP diagnosis took four doctors, 10 visits and three medications to figure out. Nine months later I am officially Bipolar NOS (at least for now). I went from dysthymic, to cyclothymic to bipolar II, to dysphoric with mixed episodes and now just plain bipolar (nos for now as we try and find a med combo that works). It was not an easy process, nor was it a short one! It would really upset me to see the words bipolar thrown around so easily. I've yet to experience anyone diagnosed as bipolar on one visit or as the result of a "trend."
Posted by green hornet on March 28, 2004, at 7:23:42
In reply to Re: Bi-Polar Popularity !, posted by greywolf on March 27, 2004, at 10:07:18
> Surprise, surprise. You come to a psychiatric-related website and you find a bunch of bipolar people. Hmmmm . . . what's next, going to ESPN.com and discovering football fanatics?
>
> Seriously, though, the number of people actually diagnosed bipolar is bound to be much fewer than those who call themselves bipolar. The DSM criteria and other standards can be read to bring many people into the range, but an accurate dx is often rather difficult. My docs wouldn't dx it for over 3 years.A decent psychiatrist or psychologist wont give a REAL diagnosis for at least a year or two. However, with managed care pushing for everything to be done yesterday, diagnoses are slapped on early in the game and can be incorrect.
Take it from one who works in the business. GH
Posted by greywolf on March 28, 2004, at 9:27:54
In reply to Re: Bi-Polar Popularity !, posted by redmaryjane on March 27, 2004, at 23:41:45
Redmaryjane:
I wouldn't say that people are being dx with BP as part of a "trend". Rather, I'm aware of anectdotal evidence that people may be adopting the dx whether they've actually been diagnosed so or not. For instance, an acquaintance has openly explained that she's been feeling depressed lately, and her gp prescribed an antidepressant. She was also told that the doc will see her again in about 6 weeks, and may refer her to a pdoc then. One of the things they may look at is bipolar. Her response? She's telling people she's bipolar. I guarantee she's never even heard of lithium.
I think this is more common than people would like to admit. If they knew what it was really like to be BP, it would be the last thing they'd voluntarily adopt as a dx.
Posted by francesco on March 28, 2004, at 9:31:30
In reply to Re: Bi-Polar Popularity !, posted by snapper on March 27, 2004, at 1:34:47
> hey fly, thats pretty funny and I am really starting to realzie that I think it is an epidemic---like the people who introduced us to the magical ssri's 15 or so years ago ,,knowing that they would mess with our already mal-adaptive bio-chemistry and wah-laaa!! Thes little pills make people into crazy raving psychotic, lunatics, and guess what you "ALL NEED MOOD STABILIZERS" WITH YOUR SSRI"s. ($$$$$$)
This is exactly what I think. Nervousness is a typical side-effect of these meds but if you get nervous while on them you have bipolar issues and you need a mood stabilizer ! I would like to give my psychiatrist 40 mg of Paxil to see how he reacts ... if he gets nervous he's bipolar too !
Posted by jane d on March 29, 2004, at 1:52:37
In reply to Re: Bi-Polar Popularity ! » redmaryjane, posted by greywolf on March 28, 2004, at 9:27:54
> I think this is more common than people would like to admit. If they knew what it was really like to be BP, it would be the last thing they'd voluntarily adopt as a dx.
What is it like to be BP? In this thread you can tell that there are at least 2 definitions being used but you'll only be aware of that if you are very familiar with the subject already. Is it surprising that people get confused when they hear that they or a friend are bipolar 2 or that they suddenly have these nightmares of being Sally Field on ER screaming and fighting or Kay Redfield Jamieson circling a parking lot endlessly?
I don't want to get into an argument on what is the true bipolar. Labeling it a spectrum is a hypothesis about a common cause - and with any luck a common treatment - not a statement that the symptoms look the same. Personally I think it's a theory that makes sense at least for now.
It is possible that it's being overdiagnosed but if so it's probably for the same reason all these Dx's can be - it's very hard to know exactly where the line between normal and ill. Doctors are also probably influenced by the hope that mood stabilizers will work for a bunch of people they couldn't do much with in the past and the diagnosis is a reflection of that hope. If it doesn't work fewer people will be diagnosed. Is that really a fad?
Jane,
who doesn't have a BP x.xxx diagnosis - yet.
Posted by greywolf on March 29, 2004, at 9:06:56
In reply to Re: That's not the whole story » greywolf, posted by jane d on March 29, 2004, at 1:52:37
Jane D:
I didn't say BP was over-diagnosed. My point is that it is not uncommon to hear people referring to themselves as bipolar or labeling other people as bipolar without any diagnosis being made at all. Kind of like the days when "manic-depressive" was lobbed at people with mood swings.
It's not a big issue, but from the perspective of a better public appreciation of a serious mental health issue like bipolar, I think accuracy in what you publicly represent as your disorder (if you choose to tell people) is important. I know several people who really think that bipolar is just being moodier than most, so if someone around them explains occasional irritability as a manifestation of BP when it's not and hasn't been diagnosed as such, it diminishes the significance of BP as a serious mental health problem in their eyes.
In my opinion, American society as a whole tends to write off depression and BP as personal shams, drug company scams, or the product of personal weakness--except in extreme cases where they can't dismiss the problem so easily (like a severe BP I). Over-diagnosing BP (if that's happening) or "over-claiming" of BP by those who haven't been diagnosed undermines public respect for the seriousness of the disorder and may diminish the likelihood that a person actually suffering from BP will get an informed and compassionate response from his acquaintances.
Posted by redmaryjane on March 29, 2004, at 9:19:22
In reply to Re: That's not the whole story » jane d, posted by greywolf on March 29, 2004, at 9:06:56
>>Over-diagnosing BP (if that's happening) or "over-claiming" of BP by those who haven't been diagnosed undermines public respect for the seriousness of the disorder and may diminish the likelihood that a person actually suffering from BP will get an informed and compassionate response from his acquaintances.<<
I agree with this. It is frustrating for me because I think for a long time both my family and husband did not believe that I am bipolar.
I think they thought it was an exagerration on someone's part. This was painful to realize. I think now that they've seen me go through some mixed episodes and seen some of the dark sides (suicidal/destructive tendencies), they realize it's for real. I have been honest with a few colleagues at work (because I had to take a lot of time off) and even now I still get crazy jokes from them. They're not that funny to me. Especially on the days that dsyphoria slips in and I feel ultra-agitated.
Lamictal is working wonders for me. Paxil is also. What effexor did to me is make me much more than nervous...I stopped eating, I grew suicidal and I never slept. That was an inkling of a sign of bipolar but no where near a determining factor to a true diagnosis.
I understand the nature of this discussion though.I just think it's unfortunate because those of us dealing with this diagnosis do struggle so much just to get through each day.
One last thing...another reason I think people didn't take me seriously for so long is because I've been such a good actress my whole life. I have perfected the art of faking a good mood, putting on a smile and moving on. Thanks to my good stoic-Germanic father...I was pushed to "grin and bear it." He uses alcohol as did his ancestors...I use mood stabilizers. Whatever works I guess.
Posted by joebob on March 29, 2004, at 10:18:10
In reply to Re: Bi-Polar Popularity !, posted by green hornet on March 28, 2004, at 7:23:42
paid more for her time!!!!
Posted by PoohBear on March 29, 2004, at 11:43:34
In reply to Re: Bi-Polar Popularity !, posted by linkadge on March 27, 2004, at 6:42:03
> The funny thing is that the people who just want a lable and a pill will get one. But the people who are genuinly bipolar are likely the ones that are not getting the proper treatment.
>
> I think it is bothersome that a *fad* could possibly confound the diagnosis of a true disorder.
>
> The degree of suffering difference between a bratty tempertantrum child, and a raving psychotic are large but in our efforts to
> "catch" these disorders in time, every hint of
> a disorder is being hit with medication.
>
> But I wouldn't worry too much. The ones who "just want to try the next drug" are the ones who drop the drug at the slightest side effect.
>
> The amount of times I have heard "I'd rather be depressed than have no sex life" go to reafirm my suspiciions.
>
>
> Linkadge
I would agree wholeheartedly...I would also add that I think people like the *idea* of a bipolar diagnosis thinking that it might be more socially acceptable than depression. More of a real *disorder* than something many people still expect you to "just snap out of".
Tony
Posted by ramsea on March 30, 2004, at 7:49:26
In reply to Re: Bi-Polar Popularity ! » linkadge, posted by PoohBear on March 29, 2004, at 11:43:34
My experience is the opposite of what I have been reading in this thread. First, it is still considered by the World Health Organization to be widely underdiagnosed.
2, I am a Bipolar 1 of many tears standing and have also worked in mental health. I have only ever seen people hide the fact of their diagnosis--never flaunt it. Though sometimes disturbed hypomania might lead a few to yell about it. In support groups (like this) people often feel comfortable admitting their diagnosis and having a good chinwag about bipolar.
But of course as someone else already said, go to a mental health site and join the group, but expect to meet bipolars there. For one thing, we bipolars tend to be very verbal. That's even documented---there's more of us who are "writers" than in any other group.
There's probably a greater chance of meeting us because we tend to be the sort of people who reach out to others, even when we're ill. So if a person hangs out with writers, as on the computer, and other creative-type activities (or high achieving people) there's a better than average chance of finding yourself neck to neck (how unpleasant sounding) with someone "claiming" to be "bipolar".
I agree that it's weird to call someone bipolar due to an AD making them anxious, suicidal, or whatever. There should be procedure in place--a timed thing so it's possible to see if bipolarity is really the issue before adding this dx.
I personally know some bipolar-evident people who refuse help or dx. This is more common. I guess there will always be some people who ***want***an illness and will leap to be called bipolar. But really, I tell almost no one. Most of us aren't proud and delighted to have a disorder that makes the majority of people think we're a lunatic.
I have no doubt some people who don't have cancer say that they do, or they fake-out others with all kinds of bogus health problems. Don't see why bipolar should be different, but probably the mass of us are sadly, bipolar, and our quality of life has been damaged because of it. Not something any well person would want. Just my thoughts. Maybe the world is full of fakers. I hope not. Peace.
Posted by PoohBear on March 30, 2004, at 12:04:12
In reply to what?, posted by ramsea on March 30, 2004, at 7:49:26
Ramsea:
I agree completely with you, but I believe you may have misunderstood my post...
ALL mental illness is looked upon by MOST people as something weird and unknowable. The brain is dark, unexplored territory.
My *thought* was that for many, BP could be a much more *acceptable* Dx than depression because people might view it as a more legitimate disorder than depression alone...
I'm probably all wet on this, but that's where I'm coming from.
My personal experience is that when I was diagnosed with adult ADHD and clinical depression 8 years ago, I chose to focus on the ADHD rather than the drepression (to my detriment), because in my mind that was a real *disorder* that could be treated rather than something that many people would look at as a weakness.
Does any of this make sense?
Tony
> My experience is the opposite of what I have been reading in this thread. First, it is still considered by the World Health Organization to be widely underdiagnosed.
>
> 2, I am a Bipolar 1 of many tears standing and have also worked in mental health. I have only ever seen people hide the fact of their diagnosis--never flaunt it. Though sometimes disturbed hypomania might lead a few to yell about it. In support groups (like this) people often feel comfortable admitting their diagnosis and having a good chinwag about bipolar.
>
> But of course as someone else already said, go to a mental health site and join the group, but expect to meet bipolars there. For one thing, we bipolars tend to be very verbal. That's even documented---there's more of us who are "writers" than in any other group.
>
> There's probably a greater chance of meeting us because we tend to be the sort of people who reach out to others, even when we're ill. So if a person hangs out with writers, as on the computer, and other creative-type activities (or high achieving people) there's a better than average chance of finding yourself neck to neck (how unpleasant sounding) with someone "claiming" to be "bipolar".
>
> I agree that it's weird to call someone bipolar due to an AD making them anxious, suicidal, or whatever. There should be procedure in place--a timed thing so it's possible to see if bipolarity is really the issue before adding this dx.
>
> I personally know some bipolar-evident people who refuse help or dx. This is more common. I guess there will always be some people who ***want***an illness and will leap to be called bipolar. But really, I tell almost no one. Most of us aren't proud and delighted to have a disorder that makes the majority of people think we're a lunatic.
>
> I have no doubt some people who don't have cancer say that they do, or they fake-out others with all kinds of bogus health problems. Don't see why bipolar should be different, but probably the mass of us are sadly, bipolar, and our quality of life has been damaged because of it. Not something any well person would want. Just my thoughts. Maybe the world is full of fakers. I hope not. Peace.
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.