![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 31. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by ace on March 2, 2004, at 22:44:21
Never have I seen as much nonsense about benzos....and other drugs. It seems these people are totally oblivious to the advantages of the benzos and are totally hellbent on exposing their "evil" natures....
There is no factual basis to statements such as "long term cognitive impairement results from benzo usage"....I have not seen ANY clinical or anecdotal data on such "findings" the site includes good old Peter Breggin, who, as usual, always finds the best things to say about psych drugs!
Ofcourse, withdrawal from benzos must be done slow as to prevent any possible ill-effects, but again and again, I am noticing a trend towards users lowering their dosage themselves over time...the exception is the alcoholic or recreational drug abuser...
Tolerance to benzos may occur (not always) in the first 2-4 weeks, due to a trend in the liver producing more Xanax-killing enzymes....also, the brain may produce less GABA....
However, usually one finds a dose with continued efficacy after this initial tolerance period....
So please don't believe everything those benzophobics say!
oh, by the way, i am starting LONG TERM Xanax therapy on Monday! Wish me luck!Ace...
Nardil 60
Zyprexa 2.5 bid
Posted by Viridis on March 3, 2004, at 1:32:51
In reply to DON'T BELIEVE BENZO.ORG!!!!!!, posted by ace on March 2, 2004, at 22:44:21
I could say a lot a lot about benzo.org and some of the other anti-benzo sites, but last time I did (OK, I was kind of sarcastic) I got a "please be civil" warning. So I'll just add my agreement with Ace, and point out a few things:
- look carefully at the qualifications of the people who run these sites and those who are cited as "experts" -- in particular, if someone is listed as a "doctor", check what field their doctorate is in (some have nothing to do with medicine or psychiatry);
- consider that testimonials are pretty easy to come by; even people who are being perfectly honest may attribute the problems they're having to a particular drug they've taken, whether it had anything to do with their condition or not;
- almost any med or class of meds is bound to have negative effects for some subset of users, which doesn't make these drugs dangerous for everyone;
- especially with anxiety disorders, it's very hard to separate "withdrawal" after discontinuation from a simple return to the previous anxiety condition (although there's no question that benzos and many other meds require a gradual taper after extended use);
- some of these sites devote an awful lot of attention to telling people how to sue their doctors, even if the doctor prescribed a med carefully, reasonably, and in good faith -- which raises questions about the real motivation behind the sites.
I could go on, but the point is that anyone can create a website and put whatever they want on it. I suspect that you could pick nearly any drug (including aspirin) and come up with "experts" who say it's dangerous and people who will testify that it's ruined their lives.
Benzos have been helping people for decades, have an excellent record of safety and effectiveness, and the people who need them most seem to have the fewest problems with them.
Having said all that, if a benzo is going to cause problems, Xanax appears (based on the available evidence) the most likely to so. Not a reason to avoid it (it's a wonderful med) -- just watch for tolerance etc. I do best using it occasionally, with Klonopin as my mainstay for anxiety. I had no major problems; I just developed tolerance quickly so I limit its use to maintain effectiveness at a fairly low dose. But that's just me, and we all react differently.
In any case, take the anti-benzo sites with a very large grain of salt.
Posted by Sad Panda on March 3, 2004, at 3:23:28
In reply to Re: DON'T BELIEVE BENZO.ORG!!!!!! » ace, posted by Viridis on March 3, 2004, at 1:32:51
> I could say a lot a lot about benzo.org and some of the other anti-benzo sites, but last time I did (OK, I was kind of sarcastic) I got a "please be civil" warning. So I'll just add my agreement with Ace, and point out a few things:
>
> - look carefully at the qualifications of the people who run these sites and those who are cited as "experts" -- in particular, if someone is listed as a "doctor", check what field their doctorate is in (some have nothing to do with medicine or psychiatry);
>
> - consider that testimonials are pretty easy to come by; even people who are being perfectly honest may attribute the problems they're having to a particular drug they've taken, whether it had anything to do with their condition or not;
>
> - almost any med or class of meds is bound to have negative effects for some subset of users, which doesn't make these drugs dangerous for everyone;
>
> - especially with anxiety disorders, it's very hard to separate "withdrawal" after discontinuation from a simple return to the previous anxiety condition (although there's no question that benzos and many other meds require a gradual taper after extended use);
>
> - some of these sites devote an awful lot of attention to telling people how to sue their doctors, even if the doctor prescribed a med carefully, reasonably, and in good faith -- which raises questions about the real motivation behind the sites.
>
> I could go on, but the point is that anyone can create a website and put whatever they want on it. I suspect that you could pick nearly any drug (including aspirin) and come up with "experts" who say it's dangerous and people who will testify that it's ruined their lives.
>
> Benzos have been helping people for decades, have an excellent record of safety and effectiveness, and the people who need them most seem to have the fewest problems with them.
>
> Having said all that, if a benzo is going to cause problems, Xanax appears (based on the available evidence) the most likely to so. Not a reason to avoid it (it's a wonderful med) -- just watch for tolerance etc. I do best using it occasionally, with Klonopin as my mainstay for anxiety. I had no major problems; I just developed tolerance quickly so I limit its use to maintain effectiveness at a fairly low dose. But that's just me, and we all react differently.
>
> In any case, take the anti-benzo sites with a very large grain of salt.
>
>
>I agree totally. There is no 100% safe drug. Show me a drug with no side effects and/or withdrawl problems & I'll show you one that does nothing.
Of all the drugs mentioned on this message board, Benzos would have to be the safest group with the possible exception of the natural Opiates.
Cheers,
Panda.
Posted by NotAddicted on March 3, 2004, at 7:24:46
In reply to Re: DON'T BELIEVE BENZO.ORG!!!!!! » ace, posted by Viridis on March 3, 2004, at 1:32:51
"Benzos have been helping people for decades, have an excellent record of safety and effectiveness, and the people who need them most seem to have the fewest problems with them."
A wonderfully TRUE statement. I have long TRIED to advocate for the safe, effective, responsible, educated, monitored use of this class of drugs, realizing there are people who should not be placed on them and there are horror stories.... Can't that be said of any med?
The problem rises when one attempts to do research for themselves, and the UK site is the first information to be found.
I had only been on Klonopin for 2 days when I found the site and it scared me to absolute panic. Had I heeded the warnings (and did for a bit - a mess was what I became), I don't know where I would be. (still a mess, is my guess)
I have been around this board long enough to see how things cycle around. I know it will always be this way, so I've dropped the valient fight, but it is unfortunate that the suffering are missing out on a treatment that does work very well for some.... like all meds, FOR SOME... not everyone.
There is a misconception that these disorders are "cured". I believe they are managed and treated. Realizing effective treatment is the key, is a major step in doing what one can do to have a good quality of life.If you find an effective treatment and avoid the pitfalls as much as possible..... that makes you one of the very lucky ones.
Posted by NotAddicted on March 3, 2004, at 7:48:03
In reply to Re: DON'T BELIEVE BENZO.ORG!!!!!!, posted by NotAddicted on March 3, 2004, at 7:24:46
Years back, in my early confused state, I stated how Klonopin had been a blessing to me, but I really still had resevations about it's use... but my "gut, deep down" reaction was this was the answer for me.
A very wise, good friend's quote was:
"Bravo! Count your blessings, and ignore the critics."
Wise words, INDEED.
Posted by djmmm on March 3, 2004, at 19:50:29
In reply to DON'T BELIEVE BENZO.ORG!!!!!!, posted by ace on March 2, 2004, at 22:44:21
It is obvious non of you have never withdrawn from a benzo..or gone through a discontinuation syndrome. I was on Klonopin 4mg for 4 or so months, I am still trying to get off it. Klonopin was a wonderfully effective medication, with little to no side-effects, until I tried to stop taking it....
I didn't suffer from much rebound anxiety ...however I did suffer from almost EVERY one of the "withdrawl" effects listed on that site... I also had the lovely withdrawl effect of having one of my pupils dilated, and a 20 lb weight loss in 10 days... I put a "y" next to the symptoms I experienced
CNS DEPRESSION :
- drowsiness--- Y
- fever
- hypothermia---Y
- respiratory depression--YCARDIOVASCULAR :
- palpitations---Y
- irregular heartbeat---YDERMATOLOGICAL :
- ankle and face oedema
- hair loss
- hirsutism (excess hair growth)
- mouth ulcers--Y
- papular and maculopapular rashes--Y
- pruritus--Y
- rhinorrhoea--Y
- skin rash--Y
- urticaria--Y
- yellow eyes or skinENDOCRINOLOGICAL :
- hair loss
- lymphoadenopathy
- thyroid disturbancesGASTROINTESTINAL :
- anorexia--Y
- coated tongue--Y
- constipation--Y
- diarrhoea--Y
- dry mouth--Y
- encopresis
- gastritis
- increased appetite
- nausea--y
- skin disorders--y
- xeroderma (dry, itchy skin)--yGENITOURINARY :
- dysuria
- enuresis
- nocturnia
- urinary retentionHAEMATOLOGICAL :
- anaemia
- bleeding or bruising--y
- eosinophilia
- leukopaenia
- thrombocytopaeniaHEPATIC :
- haematomegaly (liver enlargement)--?MUSCULOSKELETAL :
- dehydration--y
- fever
- general deterioration--y
- lymphoadenopathy
- muscle stiffness and weakness--y
- weight gain or loss--yNEUROLOGICAL :
- abnormal eye movements--y
- aphonia (loss of voice)
- arching of the back/spasm
- ataxia (reeling, wide-based gait, involuntary movements, twitches)--y
- coma
- diplopia (double vision)--y
- dysarthria (inarticulate, slurring, lack of modulation)--y
- glassy eyes--y
- headache--y
- hypotonia (decreased muscle tone)--y
- nystagmus
- respiratory depression--Y
- seizures--y
- tremor--y
- vertigo--yPARADOXICAL :
- agitation--y
- aggressive behaviour
- anxiety--y
- depression--y
- excitability--y
- hostility
- irritability--y
- nervousness--y
- nightmares, vivid dreams--y
- sleep disturbance--yPSYCHIATRIC :
- amnesia--y
- anxiety--y
- confusion--y
- delusions--y
- depression--y
- euphoria
- forgetfulness--y
- hallucinations--y
- hysteria
- increased libido
- insomnia
- psychosis--?
- suicidal thoughts--yRESPIRATORY :
- bronchial secretions--y
- chest congestion--y
- dyspnea--y
- hypersalivation--y
- hypersecretion of respiratory passages--y
- respiratory depression--y
- rhinorrhoea (runny nose)--y
- shortness of breath--yand I am not a drug addict, or an alcoholic (because there seems to be some rediculious notion that only addicts get withdrawl/dicontinuation symptoms) There is no evidence to support such an asinine statement.
Posted by NotAddicted on March 3, 2004, at 20:12:47
In reply to Re: DON'T BELIEVE BENZO.ORG!!!!!!, posted by djmmm on March 3, 2004, at 19:50:29
> and I am not a drug addict, or an alcoholic (because there seems to be some rediculious notion that only addicts get withdrawl/dicontinuation symptoms) There is no evidence to support such an asinine statement.
~~~I am very sorry for your difficulties. But, there is another side to the coin. It would be nice if both findings were given equal respect. I believe the horror stories..... but, no one seems to want to believe that there are success stories.....
I really should give up on trying to even tell of success and avoiding problems and having a life returned to me because of my benzo use....
Okay.... UNCLE
Posted by ace on March 3, 2004, at 20:37:47
In reply to Re: DON'T BELIEVE BENZO.ORG!!!!!!, posted by djmmm on March 3, 2004, at 19:50:29
> It is obvious non of you have never withdrawn from a benzo..or gone through a discontinuation syndrome. I was on Klonopin 4mg for 4 or so months, I am still trying to get off it. Klonopin was a wonderfully effective medication, with little to no side-effects, until I tried to stop taking it....
Can you tell me at what rate you tried to discontinue Klonopin?
Posted by ace on March 3, 2004, at 21:33:14
In reply to Re: DON'T BELIEVE BENZO.ORG!!!!!! » ace, posted by Viridis on March 3, 2004, at 1:32:51
>
> - almost any med or class of meds is bound to have negative effects for some subset of users, which doesn't make these drugs dangerous for everyone;
>
>Djmmm-this seems to be your position if you indeed did taper very slowly on Klonopin.I have heard of many people who experienced NO problems with tolerance and withdrawal...
Everyone is different- we cant generalize from just ONE persons experience...
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 4, 2004, at 17:04:50
In reply to Re: DON'T BELIEVE BENZO.ORG!!!!!! » ace, posted by Viridis on March 3, 2004, at 1:32:51
> I could say a lot a lot about benzo.org and some of the other anti-benzo sites, but last time I did (OK, I was kind of sarcastic) I got a "please be civil" warning.
I'd like to start asking people here not to post anything that could lead those who agree with views expressed at benzo.org.uk to feel accused or put down. Even if it falls short of sarcastic. Thanks,
Bob
Posted by green hornet on March 4, 2004, at 17:50:20
In reply to Re: DON'T BELIEVE BENZO.ORG!!!!!!, posted by djmmm on March 3, 2004, at 19:50:29
Whoa -- how much of what were you on to get that kind of reaction !? gh
Posted by green hornet on March 4, 2004, at 17:53:41
In reply to Re: DON'T BELIEVE BENZO.ORG!!!!!!, posted by green hornet on March 4, 2004, at 17:50:20
PS Sorry, I missed the Klonipin, but again your dose must have been a whopper and over a long period! gh
Posted by djmmm on March 4, 2004, at 19:57:53
In reply to Re: BENZO.ORG, posted by Dr. Bob on March 4, 2004, at 17:04:50
> > I could say a lot a lot about benzo.org and some of the other anti-benzo sites, but last time I did (OK, I was kind of sarcastic) I got a "please be civil" warning.
>
> I'd like to start asking people here not to post anything that could lead those who agree with views expressed at benzo.org.uk to feel accused or put down. Even if it falls short of sarcastic. Thanks,
>
> BobAlthough I agree with with the majority of the site, I would never feel "put down" by another's view of the site...everyone has an opinion, I respect Ace's as I'm sure he does mine...no harm done.
Posted by ace on March 4, 2004, at 21:30:08
In reply to Re: BENZO.ORG, posted by djmmm on March 4, 2004, at 19:57:53
> > > I could say a lot a lot about benzo.org and some of the other anti-benzo sites, but last time I did (OK, I was kind of sarcastic) I got a "please be civil" warning.
> >
> > I'd like to start asking people here not to post anything that could lead those who agree with views expressed at benzo.org.uk to feel accused or put down. Even if it falls short of sarcastic. Thanks,
> >
> > Bob
>
> Although I agree with with the majority of the site, I would never feel "put down" by another's view of the site...everyone has an opinion, I respect Ace's as I'm sure he does mine...no harm done.Absolutely I respect your views djmmm. I am also sorry you had this problem with Klonopin, and I truly hope it resolves....I believe a lot of people can be fine with benzos but, like any other med, there are exceptions...
Posted by Dave1 on March 5, 2004, at 0:18:51
In reply to DON'T BELIEVE BENZO.ORG!!!!!!, posted by ace on March 2, 2004, at 22:44:21
Hi,
If you are refering to the above post I made about benzo.org.uk, I just wanted to say that in
no way do I endorse benzo.org, but it did have a few good things on it. I was trying to get a point across about benzos and withdrawal and the only place I could find a formal written discussion was I benzo.org.uk.Also, one the articles I read there, talked about Tegretol to help with bz. withdrawal. When I posted this, others responded and said that Tegretol was great for helping with BZ withdrawal. Now, I have another weapon for BZ. withdrawal.
Bye
Dave
P.S. - I'm done posting about this subject for now.
Also, thanks for clearing up the tolerance thing. I was never sure about it.
> Never have I seen as much nonsense about benzos....and other drugs. It seems these people are totally oblivious to the advantages of the benzos and are totally hellbent on exposing their "evil" natures....
>
> There is no factual basis to statements such as "long term cognitive impairement results from benzo usage"....I have not seen ANY clinical or anecdotal data on such "findings" the site includes good old Peter Breggin, who, as usual, always finds the best things to say about psych drugs!
>
> Ofcourse, withdrawal from benzos must be done slow as to prevent any possible ill-effects, but again and again, I am noticing a trend towards users lowering their dosage themselves over time...the exception is the alcoholic or recreational drug abuser...
>
> Tolerance to benzos may occur (not always) in the first 2-4 weeks, due to a trend in the liver producing more Xanax-killing enzymes....also, the brain may produce less GABA....
>
> However, usually one finds a dose with continued efficacy after this initial tolerance period....
>
>
> So please don't believe everything those benzophobics say!
>
>
> oh, by the way, i am starting LONG TERM Xanax therapy on Monday! Wish me luck!
>
> Ace...
> Nardil 60
> Zyprexa 2.5 bid
Posted by missamor on March 5, 2004, at 0:22:29
In reply to Re: BENZO.ORG » djmmm, posted by ace on March 4, 2004, at 21:30:08
i am wondering something- how much klonopin are ppl taking that have so many probs upon quitting taking it? if you take 1 mg a day are you at the same type of risk as high doses? ive heard of crazy doses, my friend took like 20 or something when she would have an anxiety attack, prescribed by her doctor? that just sounds nuts to me, but i take .5mg morning and .5mg at night and .5 as needed, but i usually like to stick with .5mg 2x daily. not to ruin the anti-benzo debate but i was curious~i have been taking it for almost a year and the websites scare me too. my dr said that my worrying about it is doing more harm than my taking it, i really trust him. but i don't want to blindly lead myself into misery. he said i could take them my whole life? im in my mid 20's, i dont know if that is the plan- but is that an absurd statment? (on docs behalf)
thanks in advance-
Posted by Dave1 on March 5, 2004, at 0:33:11
In reply to Re: BENZO.ORG, posted by missamor on March 5, 2004, at 0:22:29
Hi,
I've been on ativan for years, and as long as I don't develop a tolerance, I will continue as long as necessary. I'm 39 and will probably be on it for years to come.
Some shrinks won't prescribe BZs, or only at very low doses. Controlled substances are very carefully monitored, and Docs can get in a lot of trouble for over prescribing them. Thus, some won't give them out because they are scared of a lawsuit.
But, if you don't develop a tolerance,
you should be able to stay on the same dose for years, so I don't see the problem.Bye,
Dave
> i am wondering something- how much klonopin are ppl taking that have so many probs upon quitting taking it? if you take 1 mg a day are you at the same type of risk as high doses? ive heard of crazy doses, my friend took like 20 or something when she would have an anxiety attack, prescribed by her doctor? that just sounds nuts to me, but i take .5mg morning and .5mg at night and .5 as needed, but i usually like to stick with .5mg 2x daily. not to ruin the anti-benzo debate but i was curious~i have been taking it for almost a year and the websites scare me too. my dr said that my worrying about it is doing more harm than my taking it, i really trust him. but i don't want to blindly lead myself into misery. he said i could take them my whole life? im in my mid 20's, i dont know if that is the plan- but is that an absurd statment? (on docs behalf)
> thanks in advance-
Posted by missamor on March 5, 2004, at 1:14:36
In reply to Re: BENZO.ORG » missamor, posted by Dave1 on March 5, 2004, at 0:33:11
Posted by Sad Panda on March 5, 2004, at 3:25:38
In reply to Re: BENZO.ORG » missamor, posted by Dave1 on March 5, 2004, at 0:33:11
>
> > i am wondering something- how much klonopin are ppl taking that have so many probs upon quitting taking it? if you take 1 mg a day are you at the same type of risk as high doses? ive heard of crazy doses, my friend took like 20 or something when she would have an anxiety attack, prescribed by her doctor? that just sounds nuts to me, but i take .5mg morning and .5mg at night and .5 as needed, but i usually like to stick with .5mg 2x daily. not to ruin the anti-benzo debate but i was curious~i have been taking it for almost a year and the websites scare me too. my dr said that my worrying about it is doing more harm than my taking it, i really trust him. but i don't want to blindly lead myself into misery. he said i could take them my whole life? im in my mid 20's, i dont know if that is the plan- but is that an absurd statment? (on docs behalf)
> > thanks in advance-
>
> Hi,
>
> I've been on ativan for years, and as long as I don't develop a tolerance, I will continue as long as necessary. I'm 39 and will probably be on it for years to come.
>
> Some shrinks won't prescribe BZs, or only at very low doses. Controlled substances are very carefully monitored, and Docs can get in a lot of trouble for over prescribing them. Thus, some won't give them out because they are scared of a lawsuit.
>
> But, if you don't develop a tolerance,
> you should be able to stay on the same dose for years, so I don't see the problem.
>
> Bye,
>
> Dave
>
>
I agree with Dave. If you are only taking 1mg & you have no need to escalate the dose you will, in 99.9% of cases have nothing to worry about. OTOH, if you find a need to escalate the dose & find that you are swallowing 20 in a go like your friend, I would say you are in a fair degree of trouble.Cheers,
Panda.
Posted by Viridis on March 5, 2004, at 6:28:26
In reply to Re: BENZO.ORG, posted by Dr. Bob on March 4, 2004, at 17:04:50
Just to clarify -- disagreement isn't an "accusation" or "put down", is it? I think it's perfectly reasonable to point out the shortcomings of these websites and alert people re: red flags to look for. Perhaps I misunderstood your post, and am not taking offense, but critical analysis seems to be a fundamental theme on this board.
I may be totally off base, but disagreement certainly could lead others to feel accused or put down, yet if we can't disagree then we're unreasonably constrained.
I guess my main point is that I didn't understand your message, and I suspect that others didn't either.
Posted by NotAddicted on March 5, 2004, at 7:51:45
In reply to Re: BENZO.ORG » Dr. Bob, posted by Viridis on March 5, 2004, at 6:28:26
I posted on Adm. about that... as much as I dislike doing that. I, too, very much needed to understand the fine points of what Dr. Bob's post meant, as it came off as not really a civility question but one of not voicing a differing opinion, however civil.
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20040112/msgs/320304.html
Posted by glenn on March 5, 2004, at 8:28:49
In reply to Re: BENZO.ORG » Viridis, posted by NotAddicted on March 5, 2004, at 7:51:45
As someone for whom Xanax was the first ever med that did anything for me after 21 others I have to admit to having great regard for it.
No other class of medication seems however to cause such splitting ( that is the psychotherapeutic sense of seeing things as either all good or bad)
I admit that after Dr Jensen took some xanax out of his desk and said " I think this will sort you out!" I actually carried one in my pocket for a year before daring to take one, thank god I did , it was the beginning of a slow but sure recovery and I now only take it occasionally and at ever lower doses it seems.
As far as benzo.org goes Heather Ashton worked primarily with those who do experience problems so clearly the site is dominated by those considerations, but even she freely admits that 50% of those who take benzos long term can stop dead with no problems, I myself know 2 people who seem to be able to do this.
So why the difference !!!
That said tolerance seems to be similar, benzos have many effects ie sedation, anxiolysis, anti panic, muscle relaxation ect, some people appear to develop rapid tolerance ( Dr Shipko calls them fast metabolisers) others none at all and others initially but then stabilise.
Again why !!!
I do feel that initially drug companies and doctors used these medications far too often in far too high doses and gave people no guidelines whatsoever about tapering - after all they weren't addictive were they! ( well probably not for 50%, but that doesn't help the other 50% does it!)
Even with that taken care of however there would probably be a few who would experience problems. name me a drug that doesn't give someone hell.
Sadly as there is little money to be made from them and the medical professions guilt is projected onto the medications thus making them the " evil ones" it seems that little sense will ever prevail and the human tendency to split will continue. ( oh I do love to use my psychotherapy training sometimes, it's just a pity it never helped me when I was at my worst!!)
How sad !Glenn
Posted by NotAddicted on March 5, 2004, at 10:10:19
In reply to Re: BENZO.ORG Oh those benzos!!!, posted by glenn on March 5, 2004, at 8:28:49
"Sadly as there is little money to be made from them and the medical professions guilt is projected onto the medications thus making them the " evil ones" it seems that little sense will ever prevail and the human tendency to split will continue."
You are absolutely correct in that statement, in my opinion.
I think the key is to know one's own truth and realize the line in the sand will always be present....and respect for the views of others should be respected, as well.
This is an area of controversy where few gray areas are found.
Differing views will prevail and that's just a "how it is" situation.
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 6, 2004, at 0:28:47
In reply to Re: BENZO.ORG » Dr. Bob, posted by Viridis on March 5, 2004, at 6:28:26
> Just to clarify -- disagreement isn't an "accusation" or "put down", is it?
It isn't necessarily, but it could be, depending on how it's expressed. Sorry if I was unclear, see my reply to NotAddicted's post at PB Administration:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20040112/msgs/320479.html
Bob
Posted by micro on March 6, 2004, at 15:00:56
In reply to Re: DON'T BELIEVE BENZO.ORG!!!!!! » ace, posted by Viridis on March 3, 2004, at 1:32:51
> I could say a lot a lot about benzo.org and some of the other anti-benzo sites, but last time I did (OK, I was kind of sarcastic) I got a "please be civil" warning. So I'll just add my agreement with Ace, and point out a few things:
>
> - look carefully at the qualifications of the people who run these sites and those who are cited as "experts" -- in particular, if someone is listed as a "doctor", check what field their doctorate is in (some have nothing to do with medicine or psychiatry);
>
> - consider that testimonials are pretty easy to come by; even people who are being perfectly honest may attribute the problems they're having to a particular drug they've taken, whether it had anything to do with their condition or not;
>
> - almost any med or class of meds is bound to have negative effects for some subset of users, which doesn't make these drugs dangerous for everyone;
>
> - especially with anxiety disorders, it's very hard to separate "withdrawal" after discontinuation from a simple return to the previous anxiety condition (although there's no question that benzos and many other meds require a gradual taper after extended use);
>
> - some of these sites devote an awful lot of attention to telling people how to sue their doctors, even if the doctor prescribed a med carefully, reasonably, and in good faith -- which raises questions about the real motivation behind the sites.
>
> I could go on, but the point is that anyone can create a website and put whatever they want on it. I suspect that you could pick nearly any drug (including aspirin) and come up with "experts" who say it's dangerous and people who will testify that it's ruined their lives.
>
> Benzos have been helping people for decades, have an excellent record of safety and effectiveness, and the people who need them most seem to have the fewest problems with them.
>
> Having said all that, if a benzo is going to cause problems, Xanax appears (based on the available evidence) the most likely to so. Not a reason to avoid it (it's a wonderful med) -- just watch for tolerance etc. I do best using it occasionally, with Klonopin as my mainstay for anxiety. I had no major problems; I just developed tolerance quickly so I limit its use to maintain effectiveness at a fairly low dose. But that's just me, and we all react differently.
>
> In any case, take the anti-benzo sites with a very large grain of salt.Hello, I was wondering has anybody on this site seen the incredible no.of withdrawl complaints associated with antidepressants? Initially ssris were meant to be softer meds than the old tricyclics, but after researching the posts on this site an my pharm texts and jounals, it actually appears that ssris do cause a so called "withdrawl syndrome" trading one set of side effects and symtoms for another. The human body will become habituated for any medication taken over a long period of time!
Any Pdoc knows that benzos can cause dependence {psychologically or physically} and frequently do. I think most people here know that tapering must be slow and is more difficult based on the number of years the substance has been used for control of symtoms. Before swallowing your first pill, I would make sure that you are aware of the "Risks vs Benefits" and are willing to accept the fact that Withdrawl is likely to occur with the use of long term Benzos. This info. is published everywhere including some rather interesting posts from the individuals on this website.
Otc Aspirin is not with out risks to those who chronically use it- [especially, the elderly].It can cause Gi bleeding, colorvision abnormalities, scotomas etc. This info. may be found in a text written for medical professionals by F.T. Fraunfelder " Drug induced Side Effects and Drug Interactions"
Regards, Micro
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