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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 5 of 5. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by PsychoSage on February 13, 2004, at 13:50:20
I am currently examining the dopamine connection to well-being, and I have come to realize what my feelings are, and what dopamine represents.
For the scientifically inclined, here is an article: http://www.wireheading.com/pleasure.html I assume this source is credible. I was not familiar with the publication, but maybe some people can interpret the article and weigh in on how they feel.
I now believe the dopamine is actually heavily on the side of desire and wanting which may or may not lead to pleasure. Of course each system of neurotransmitter overlaps, but evidently pure happiness without a sense of reaching is in the opioid system.
I guess I could analogize it to being pumped up and motivated to win a football game versus the feelings after the victory.
One can be dysphoric with plenty of dopamine, and according to the article, dopamine knock out mice can be happy without the transmitter.
This has many implications for psych drugs, stimulants that are illicit, and our cultural practices with pleasureable goals.
Dopamine leaves us wanting more somehow. Does the body make us happy when it feels a kind of hopefulness from dopamine activation? It is like the pride of creating a good design without caring it out yet. Is dopamine ineffective unless we create memories and attain goals that are worthy to long-term well being and health.
I am hoping we can translate the generalized information we receive into a better idea of how we should regard dopamine since it excites us all!
Posted by Sebastian on February 13, 2004, at 22:55:36
In reply to Dopamine Myth, posted by PsychoSage on February 13, 2004, at 13:50:20
They say dopamine is the result of pleasure. I saw on tv the other day that when in love, our brain emits lots of dopamine, which brings you back for more and gives pleasure.
Posted by MB on February 14, 2004, at 13:30:45
In reply to Dopamine Myth, posted by PsychoSage on February 13, 2004, at 13:50:20
I think it all depends on where in the brain the dopamine is. When extra dopamine is made available to the accumbal shell in the limbic system, pleasure results. Extra dopamine in other brain regions will have other effects. Opiates increase the amount of dopamine available to the accumbens. Dopamine is often an excitatory transmitter, but in that particular septal nucleus, it has an inhibitory effect. There are also GABA receptors on the accumbens, and activation of them will (like the activation of dopamine receptors in the same area) decrease the firing rate of the neurons efferent from that nucleus. It is postulated that this is why depressants like benzos and barbiturates are reinforcing (producing pleasure) even though they are techincally "depressants".
MB
Posted by Questionmark on February 16, 2004, at 0:33:29
In reply to Dopamine Myth, posted by PsychoSage on February 13, 2004, at 13:50:20
> I am currently examining the dopamine connection to well-being, and I have come to realize what my feelings are, and what dopamine represents.
>
> For the scientifically inclined, here is an article: http://www.wireheading.com/pleasure.html I assume this source is credible. I was not familiar with the publication, but maybe some people can interpret the article and weigh in on how they feel.
>
> I now believe the dopamine is actually heavily on the side of desire and wanting which may or may not lead to pleasure. Of course each system of neurotransmitter overlaps, but evidently pure happiness without a sense of reaching is in the opioid system.
>
> I guess I could analogize it to being pumped up and motivated to win a football game versus the feelings after the victory.
>
> One can be dysphoric with plenty of dopamine, and according to the article, dopamine knock out mice can be happy without the transmitter.
>
> This has many implications for psych drugs, stimulants that are illicit, and our cultural practices with pleasureable goals.
>
> Dopamine leaves us wanting more somehow. Does the body make us happy when it feels a kind of hopefulness from dopamine activation? It is like the pride of creating a good design without caring it out yet. Is dopamine ineffective unless we create memories and attain goals that are worthy to long-term well being and health.
>
> I am hoping we can translate the generalized information we receive into a better idea of how we should regard dopamine since it excites us all!Yeah i think that is a brilliantly accurate representation of dopamine's general actions & effects in our brains. Although i do of course agree with MB in that what effect DA has depends on where in the brain it is being released, i think that a generalized increase in DA release throughout the entire brain (e.g, via exogenous stimulants) results in the effects you described. In such an example, i do think that desire is an extremely large part of that effect, in addition to raw pleasure. "Contentment" is not a word i would use to describe overall dopamine enhancement (whereas it can be with serotonin)... Pleasure and euphoria, yes, but coupled with longing; with an even greater desire for something more. Ah crap i'm generalizing too much. Nevermind. But anyway i think there's much truth to what you said. And i find it interesting-- and it makes sense-- that the opioid system is involved with raw pleasure without creating more desire, so to speak. And that makes perfect neurophysiological sense from how MB explained it.
ok i'm done.
Posted by Chairman_MAO on February 16, 2004, at 12:41:59
In reply to Re: Dopamine Myth, posted by Questionmark on February 16, 2004, at 0:33:29
The opioid system is what seems to mediate "liking", while dopamine, as you guys are aware, mediates "wanting" and reward. Hence, the speeedball. ;)
Seriously, it is interesting that amphetamine potentiates opioid analgesia and makes the opioid safer and more tolerable.
It also has to be the best antidepressant known to man.
Oww! The pain in my HEAD! Help!
Pain Symptom Manage. 1998 Oct;16(4):245-53.
Potentiation of opioid analgesia by psychostimulant drugs: a review.Dalal S, Melzack R.
Department of Psychology, McGill University, Montreal, Quebec, Canada.
Recent research has investigated drug combinations that enhance the analgesic effectiveness of their component substances. Many studies have examined the combination of opioids and psychostimulant drugs, such as amphetamine and methylphenidate. Despite the positive results reported in the literature, this combination is rarely used in clinical practice. The purpose of this paper is to review the literature on the opioid-amphetamine combination. Experiments with animal and human subjects provide convincing evidence that d-amphetamine or methylphenidate potentiate the analgesic effects of morphine. Psychostimulant drugs have been shown in animal studies to possess intrinsic analgesic properties and to have the ability to enhance the analgesic properties of opioids when both types of drugs are given in combination. Studies with human subjects have confirmed the enhancement of opioid analgesia by amphetamines and, in addition, have demonstrated that psychostimulant drugs produce a decrease in somnolence and an increase in general cognitive abilities. The greater cognitive alertness, moreover, allows the use of larger opioid doses, which can produce a substantial increase in analgesia. These results indicate another possible method to enhance the quality of life in patients with difficult pain problems. Although the enhanced cognitive effects are well established, the effects on pain need further study to determine the mechanisms of action and the drug combinations and administration patterns that would maximize their effects.
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