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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 7 of 7. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by utopizen on February 10, 2004, at 15:40:56
Stuffy nose last night after taking 30mg of Remeron for the first time to make me go to sleep. I got very drowsy, but not sleepy enough to pass through stage 2.
Trazodone worked over the summer, but then I switched to Ambien because I found the early morning grogginess terrible as a morning person. I've tried my leftovers of it before, and it didn't work-- it just gave me a stuffy nose to stare at the ceiling with instead.
And now the Remeron gives me a stuffy nose. All this *with* a $90 nasal+throat irrigation machine I use.
And it didn't even put me to sleep, only my spare 1mg's of Risperdal that I was given for social anxiety a year ago worked, after taking 2mg.
Doc won't prescribe Ambien-- excessive doses of Desoxyn, no problem. Ambien? Uh-oh, I'm not comfortable, how about Elavil?
Okay, Remeron, Trazodone... stuffy nose... my guess is other trycyllics will cause a... can you guess... a stuffy nose?
And what happened 3 minutes after I tell him Trazodone gives me a stuffy nose? "Well, maybe we could try Trazodone again."
"But it gives me a stuffy nose, and it doesn't work!"
"Well, it worked before, didn't it?"
"Well, not anymore!"
"Well, can I at least have some Sonata in case Remeron doesn't put me to sleep? I have black marks under my eyes that make me look like I'm either dead or a dying insomniac or have a black eye, none of which are appealing to society."
"Why Sonata?"
"It has a 4-hour half life. I could try to avoid it, in case the Remeron works, and then take it half-way through the night in case it didn't."
"I'm not sure"
"How about a very low quantity? Like 3 doses? Emergency supply?"
"I don't think so. We want to limit the number of different drugs you're taking.
"And Remeron will help your anxiety (code word for "I think you're depressed, and that's why you have trouble sleeping, and even if I gave you Ambien, I still need to give you an anti-depressant somehow anyway").
Anyway, it's 5PM, and I'm still groggy. How is this suppose to make people feel less depressed? If I wasn't depressed yet, I certainly will be now. No wonder why docs skimp out on the Ambien and give you these. If they suspect depression, they'll get it-- these things make you feel so terrible, you'll go back and tell them you're depressed, and they'll be like "I knew it! Yay for me!"
In reality, I would be depressed only because my insomnia wasn't properly treated. Untreated insomnia after 6 weeks is clinically linked to depression.
Posted by zeugma on February 10, 2004, at 17:55:41
In reply to Insomnia? Elavil, Remeron, Trazodone, Oh My!, posted by utopizen on February 10, 2004, at 15:40:56
Elavil is a little less antihistaminic than Remeron, it is a lot more anticholinergic, so it will probably not give you a stuffy nose, it will likely dry you out.
I find Elavil's metabolite, nortriptyline, to be a great treatment for my insomnia. The trick with nortriptyline is that it's in effect a slow-release med: it has an average half life of 31 hours, and it reaches peak plasma concentrations after eight, so if I want to be asleep by twelve, I take it around seven pm. Years ago I gave up on nortriptyline because I was instructed to take it at bedtime, so I took it at 11, couldn't sleep, then was wiped out the next morning and lost a lot of jobs because I couldn't move out of bed. I would think elavil is similar. The lower the dose, the earlier you should take it. It's worth a try.
Posted by Sad Panda on February 10, 2004, at 22:14:18
In reply to Insomnia? Elavil, Remeron, Trazodone, Oh My!, posted by utopizen on February 10, 2004, at 15:40:56
Did you try 15mg of Remeron first? It's NE effects start to emerge when you go past 15mg.
Cheers,
Panda.
Posted by KimberlyDi on February 11, 2004, at 8:54:27
In reply to Insomnia? Elavil, Remeron, Trazodone, Oh My!, posted by utopizen on February 10, 2004, at 15:40:56
100mg of Trazadone and 100mg of Imipramine at night knocks me out. 200mg x2 a day of generic Tegretol finishes me off during the day. I've never slept so much.
Good Luck in search of the elusive Z's.
Posted by GreatDaneBoy on February 11, 2004, at 14:19:24
In reply to Insomnia? Elavil, Remeron, Trazodone, Oh My!, posted by utopizen on February 10, 2004, at 15:40:56
Have you thought of trying one of the atypical anti-psychotics like Zyprexa or Seroquel? These worked wonders for me and had the added benefit of stabilizing my mood, too. I know that alot of people on this board are very vocal about their opinion that AP's should only be given to schizophrenics, but they have been proven to be very safe. Further, you've tried everything else, so it seems like this would be the natural choice.
I hope that whatever happens, you can get some good sleep! =) We all know how incredibly important it is!
Posted by Chairman_MAO on February 11, 2004, at 15:20:42
In reply to Insomnia? Elavil, Remeron, Trazodone, Oh My!, posted by utopizen on February 10, 2004, at 15:40:56
No one seems to report success with it except me, or respond to my posts recommending it :(, but Gabitril is a good sleep drug. Probably not as good as high-dose ambien, but it's not a controlled substance and has none of that antihistamine effect that seems to perturb you. I gave 12mg to a friend once who was suffering from insomnia and she told me she had the best sleep she'd had in years, with no residual grogginess like she experienced with the Seroquel I gave her (I used to be an 1890s-style amateur pharmacy, where the pharmacist prescribes, heh, I'm surprised I didn't start handing things out in 'grains' and 'drams'). Gabitril has a 7-9hr half-life, so it is fairly well-suited to this application.
Posted by utopizen on February 13, 2004, at 17:54:42
In reply to Re: Insomnia? Elavil, Remeron, Trazodone, Oh My! » utopizen, posted by Chairman_MAO on February 11, 2004, at 15:20:42
> No one seems to report success with it except me, or respond to my posts recommending it :(, but Gabitril is a good sleep drug. Probably not as good as high-dose ambien, but it's not a controlled substance and has none of that antihistamine effect that seems to perturb you. I gave 12mg to a friend once who was suffering from insomnia and she told me she had the best sleep she'd had in years, with no residual grogginess like she experienced with the Seroquel I gave her (I used to be an 1890s-style amateur pharmacy, where the pharmacist prescribes, heh, I'm surprised I didn't start handing things out in 'grains' and 'drams'). Gabitril has a 7-9hr half-life, so it is fairly well-suited to this application.
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>
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I took some Gabitril one time at around 7, went to sleep (don't remember doing this, just remember feeling like a truck hit me in the bathroom) and then awoken at 9 completely disoriented to time, place and person at the ripe age of 19 in my college dorm room. That was a year ago. Good thing I sleep on my periods of psychosis, and awaken to my same old self. Oh, forgot that time when I was psychotic and paranoid a few times from pot and Vicodin.... yes, yes, remember that night and the other night a little too well.
This is the end of the thread.
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