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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Stryker88 on February 6, 2004, at 23:18:39
Does anyone know if taking and AD gives you more pleasure when listening to music. I have noticed since I have started Effexor that music has been much more enjoyable, now I listen to Heavy Metal Music and it is fast and heavy, and while on Effexor it seems to sound more crisp and clear cut.
Posted by linkadge on February 7, 2004, at 7:10:17
In reply to Antidepressants and Music Centers in the Brain, posted by Stryker88 on February 6, 2004, at 23:18:39
That will be the norepinephrine effect. The SSRI's make music seem a little more positive, but not much more enjoyable in my oppinion.
Linkadge
Posted by Sad Panda on February 7, 2004, at 9:07:24
In reply to Antidepressants and Music Centers in the Brain, posted by Stryker88 on February 6, 2004, at 23:18:39
> Does anyone know if taking and AD gives you more pleasure when listening to music. I have noticed since I have started Effexor that music has been much more enjoyable, now I listen to Heavy Metal Music and it is fast and heavy, and while on Effexor it seems to sound more crisp and clear cut.
>Being on AD's doesn't alter what music sounds like to me, but since I have been happier I have been listening to alot more music & started seeing movies on Video or DVD. I haven't been able to watch a movie for years.
Cheers,
Panda.
Posted by noa on February 7, 2004, at 14:17:24
In reply to Antidepressants and Music Centers in the Brain, posted by Stryker88 on February 6, 2004, at 23:18:39
Maybe what you are experiencing is some alleviation from your depressive symptoms--as in the ability to experience pleasure?
Enjoy!
BTW--When I was very depressed, I became very sensitive to noises and found everything loud and intrusive, and abrasive. I'm still quite sensitive to noise, but I can deal with it better.
Posted by linkadge on February 7, 2004, at 18:26:51
In reply to Re: Antidepressants and Music Centers in the Brain » Stryker88, posted by noa on February 7, 2004, at 14:17:24
Both of what is being said is true.
Proper norepinephrine, and dopamine function are very intricatetly involved in music appreciation.
Norepinephrine is involved in alertness as well.
I fully believe you when you say what you do.
Every antidepressant I have tried has made me feel slightly different about the world I live in. Although, over time, the all medications I have tried eventually normalize me to just feel like myself.
Linkadge
Posted by sailor on February 7, 2004, at 19:04:00
In reply to Re: Antidepressants and Music Centers in the Brain, posted by linkadge on February 7, 2004, at 18:26:51
I'm with NOA. My type of depression (major, long-term, treatment rsistant) has anhedonia as its major symptom. I would guess, as in my case over the years, that a return to being able to enjoy music is accompanied by the re-newed enjoyment of lots of other things. I have discovered, however, that for myself my response to music is one of the most reliable indicators of whether I'm getting "better or worse" on a particular med trial. I also suspect that dopamine is more involved than either norepinephrine or serotonin in our pleasure response to music. I believe the use of response to music is an underrated diagnostic tool among professionals. By the way I'm still at 60mg/day on a Parnate trial, tolerating it well, but not getting (yet) any therapeutic effect. Will keep you informed. Patience, Persistence. Regards, Sailor
Posted by Althea8869 on February 7, 2004, at 19:22:30
In reply to Re: Antidepressants and Music Centers in the Brain, posted by sailor on February 7, 2004, at 19:04:00
Im pretty much in your shoes sailor, same general symptomology. I have always been able to gauge the level of my depression, and therefore the success of treatment, by my desire ,not so much to listen to music and respond to it(although you cant beat the greatful dead for a pick me up) but to play guitar - If I feel like playing then I am usually improving, if I walk past it without playing, then I always find myself reflecting on how down I am.
Posted by linkadge on February 8, 2004, at 14:08:59
In reply to Re: Antidepressants and Music Centers in the Brain, posted by Althea8869 on February 7, 2004, at 19:22:30
I am the same way. When I am depressed I wonder why I even have these CD's lying around, or why I waised 10 years of my life learning to play the piano.
Even though dopamine might be the commander of the music pleasure, I think norepinephrine is involved. I read a paper about it. It had to do with musicians using beta blockers to tame down nervous hands and hearts. The paper was questioning in detail how modification of the norepinephrine system might change performance.
Norephinephrine is heavely involved in selective attention. Being able to focus on one instrument or voice and tune the others out.
Linkadge
Posted by zeugma on February 8, 2004, at 15:58:13
In reply to Re: Antidepressants and Music Centers in the Brain, posted by linkadge on February 8, 2004, at 14:08:59
> I am the same way. When I am depressed I wonder why I even have these CD's lying around, or why I waised 10 years of my life learning to play the piano.
>
> Even though dopamine might be the commander of the music pleasure, I think norepinephrine is involved. I read a paper about it. It had to do with musicians using beta blockers to tame down nervous hands and hearts. The paper was questioning in detail how modification of the norepinephrine system might change performance.
>
> Norephinephrine is heavely involved in selective attention. Being able to focus on one instrument or voice and tune the others out.
>
> LinkadgeThis is why a selective NE reuptake inhibitor like strattera is able to treat ADHD. My natural tendency is to become distracted by every passing thought, (I am severely inattentive rather than hyperactive, and I believe inattentives are more distracted by internal than by external stimuli- hence the "staring out the window daydreaming" syndrome). Even today, having lunch with a friend, I found I was listening to her only intermittently. I had to pull myself back from wherever I was mentally to follow what she was saying. Unmedicated, I can't do that at all; I have no control over my attention at all.
I'm still very inattentive, but the inattention is closer to the normal range, since I can pull myself back to where I am, where before i couldn't. Objectively, this has been proven by the fact that i now have a job that requires periods of sustained attention, and before I started taking Strattera I could barely hold a job that was completely undemanding.
Posted by Althea8869 on February 8, 2004, at 16:00:38
In reply to Re: Antidepressants and Music Centers in the Brain, posted by linkadge on February 8, 2004, at 14:08:59
One interesting sidebar here is that neurologists have been able to show greater left brain/right brain electrical activity in musicians, as compared to non musicians. It seems to require a more significant level of sharing of resources than any other activity. I thought that interesting. Anyhoo...
Posted by scott-d-o on February 9, 2004, at 13:53:32
In reply to Re: Antidepressants and Music Centers in the Brain, posted by linkadge on February 8, 2004, at 14:08:59
> I am the same way. When I am depressed I wonder why I even have these CD's lying around, or why I waised 10 years of my life learning to play the piano.
>
> Even though dopamine might be the commander of the music pleasure, I think norepinephrine is involved. I read a paper about it. It had to do with musicians using beta blockers to tame down nervous hands and hearts. The paper was questioning in detail how modification of the norepinephrine system might change performance.
>
> Norephinephrine is heavely involved in selective attention. Being able to focus on one instrument or voice and tune the others out.
>
> Linkadge
Marijuana allows one to focus on any one element of music better than any other substance I have ever taken, however, I doubt it shows much efficacy in treating ADD. ;-) Stimulants such as amphetamines and cocaine are the most powerful dopaminergic and noradrenergic substances but always seemed to lower my appreciation of music. Opiates work well for this, maybe because they raise dopamine in the pleasure centers of the brain without causing the peripheral increases in adrenaline resulting in anxiety, as stims do. However, marijuana causes extreme paranoia/anxiety in me but the selective hearing effect is still present. Marijuana causes very modest increases in dopamine but it's ability to focus in on certain sounds must lie with the activation of cannibinoid receptors.Serotonin probably plays a role too; the hallucinogen LSD acts primarily as a partial agonist at 5-HT2a and 5-HT2c receptors and supposedly increase appreciation of music (never tried it.) How many times have people suggested to listen to the Beatles' Sgt. Peppers on acid or Pink Floyd's Darkside of the Moon on hallucinogenic substances? I suppose SSRI's could lead to a greater activation of these serotonin receptors as well. Although, obviously not to the same extent as hallucinogens. Atypical antipsychotics antagonize these receptors; anyone find they decrease appreciation of music?
I do agree dopamine and norepinephrine may play a role but this is definitely an extreme oversimplification.
scott
Posted by Chairman_MAO on February 11, 2004, at 10:57:56
In reply to I think there's a bit more involved .., posted by scott-d-o on February 9, 2004, at 13:53:32
_All_ neurotransmitters play a role in doing something as complex as appreciating music. To think that we can conceive of something so abstract as music appreciation in terms of this-or-that neurotransmitter is an act of hubris.
To respond to the message, I found that amphetamine and marijuana increased my appreciation of music, and had a synergistic effect when combined together. Well, basically any drug that induces euphoria increases my enjoyment of good music, but really what the drugs are doing is increasing the intensity of experience, period in most cases. As my psychopharm. professor once told me, the best way to cure the munchies from pot is to eat something you dislike intensely.
LSD made music orgasmic (until, at higher doses, it sounded like it was digitally slowed down, but even that was orgasmic). I was also on 400mg of Seroquel for a few months (after too many years of doing too much of the above drugs), and found that it did not decrease my appreciation of music at all.
This is the end of the thread.
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