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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 9 of 9. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Incorrect Chemistry on February 3, 2004, at 17:46:47
Hello,
My name is Mark, and I am a second year biochemistry student at the University of Alberta. I have changed my life around from my teenage criminal past. I previously fought off a cocaine addiction, and a lifestyle of drug-dealing. Now, with a research career ahead in a few years things look brighter.
Not bright enough however. I have ADHD, and SAD. I currently take 20mg Paxil, and 40mg Dexedrine SR. Dexedrine helps me in incredible ways, I don’t think I would have made it this far without. I can’t stop overtaking – overdosing, it seems beyond my control. It is destroying my school; yet it provides me with the ability to be equal to my peers. I am a fucking wreck. What do I do? I can’t tell my doctor? I realize that school is more important than anything; however the addiction empowers me to make the wrong choices.
HELP?
Posted by Incorrect Chemistry on February 3, 2004, at 19:27:28
In reply to Re: Struggling with Dexedrine Use Abuse (nm) » Incorrect Chemistry, posted by Incorrect Chemistry on February 3, 2004, at 18:21:49
The struggle I have in more detail is as follows:
I am a month behind on Dexedrine because of abuse. I can get more, however, but I am scared I will abuse it, and I will always be behind – even for finals. Currently I am depressed, I can hardly get out of bed as I hate myself for feeling so out of control. Sometimes I get high and my anxiety (I think), causes me to pick at my face, sholders, and arms with tweezers. I have cuts on my face people ask about. I don’t want to go outside or to class.
Although I abuse the meds, I still usually get 1-2 weeks of use. Those weeks I can perform decent in school?
What do I do??????
Posted by 1980Monroe on February 3, 2004, at 20:20:53
In reply to Re: Struggling with Dexedrine Use Abuse, posted by Incorrect Chemistry on February 3, 2004, at 19:27:28
I know just what your going through, those little dexedrine demons are tempting as hell! I take adderall - same as dexedrine - and i abuse it all the time, but sometimes i go too far.
Get a box with a key-lock (something from office depot or wal-mart) and put however many dexies you need to save or even the whole bottle, and lock it and then give the key to a friend you trust not to give it to you until the exact time you told them too, depending on the situation. I swear i had to do that one time, when i was on a adderall tear, i got a box and locked it up and gave it too a friend, i went a little coo-coo not getting them when i wanted, but still i didnt consume the whole prescription.Alright, besides locking them away, this should help you cope when you have them locked away, Go to GNC or any Supplment store and buy L-Tyrosine(an amino acid) (dont worry i know what im talking about-i research) and take about 3-4 a day or just when a craving hits, it doesnt take all the craving away but it does help because it makes dopamine - the chemical that is released when you take amphetamine (dexedrine) thats what makes you all euphoric and confident and everything.
This is optional, but go to your doctor and try to get him to prescrbe you wellbutrin (its prescribed for depression) because it blocks the reupake of dopamine and noradrenaline, and it will give you a slight feeling of what the dexedrine gives you, so that should help when those dexedrine demons are trying to get to your head to unlock them. But it may be difficult to get him to give it to you, becuase he may think that both meds may cause you to be more anxious. Careful
Posted by Keith Talent on February 3, 2004, at 20:34:41
In reply to Know a good remedy, posted by 1980Monroe on February 3, 2004, at 20:20:53
Your doctor could add some tranylcypromine (Parnate) to make the dextroamphetamine persist for longer. It also is structurally related to the amphetamines and has a slight stimulant effect in the short run. It would make the dextroamphetamine not run out of puff (seems this may be what you're describing).
Of course, it may simply be that the prescribed dose is too low. Ditto for the paroxetine. It disgusts me that doctors might let patients suffer because of ignorant political interference in clinical decision making.
Posted by Simus on February 4, 2004, at 3:42:53
In reply to Re: Struggling with Dexedrine Use Abuse, posted by Incorrect Chemistry on February 3, 2004, at 19:27:28
Incorrect Chemistry,
Your post rips at my heart. You don't have to face this alone. Get help! Get professional help, and find other people who have been through this and have won. DO NOT hate yourself. Would you hate yourself if you had diabetes or cancer? My prayers are with you.
Posted by sb417 on February 4, 2004, at 5:24:10
In reply to Struggling with Dexedrine Use Abuse, posted by Incorrect Chemistry on February 3, 2004, at 17:46:47
Hello Incorrect Chemistry.
First, congratulations to you on overcoming your difficult past. That is a remarkable feat, and you should be very proud of yourself. Your present accomplishments in biochemistry are even more commendable.
As far as your medication problems are concerned, how long have you been on Dexedrine? How long have you been on Paxil? Perhaps you need to try a different stimulant to prevent further tolerance. Perhaps you could try Adderall or some form of Methylphenidate (Ritalin, Concerta) for a while, and you might be able to go back to Dexedrine at a later date. You refer to your need to take more Dexedrine as an "addiction." I don't know whether it's an addiction. Perhaps you just require a higher dose? It is also possible that the Paxil is counteracting the dexedrine. Have you tried lowering the Paxil a bit? A long time ago, I took an SSRI with a stimulant, and I found that the SSRI completely wiped out the benefits of the stimulant. I had to keep on raising the stimulant dose until I got off of the SSRI. SSRI's (like Paxil, Zoloft, Celexa) are known to deplete dopamine in certain parts of the brain. When the dexedrine wears off, it also depletes dopamine somewhat, so you've got a double whammy! No wonder you feel you need more dexedrine! Do you think the Paxil is helping you? Is it possible to switch to another antidepressant that doesn't deplete dopamine? I know that's easier said than done, and if you're doing well on Paxil, then you probably shouldn't try to "fix what ain't broke."
Although I've never tried it, I've read a number of threads on PB about methods to prevent amphetamine tolerance. Several people here have suggested magnesium. Others use dextromethorphan, an ingredient found in cough syrup. I'm awfully wary of that because I don't think it's a good idea to chronically impair the coughing reflex. We have the coughing reflex for a reason, and it shouldn't be suppressed if you need to cough. Nevertheless, several posters here have found it helpful in preventing amphetamine poop-out. If I were going to go that route, I think it would be safer to try magnesium supplements.
I think you should speak with your doctor honestly about your situation, but don't refer to yourself as an "addict." Frankly, I don't think you are an "addict," and I think labels are damaging, at best. As you know from your biochemistry studies, psychopharmacology is very complicated and cannot be reduced to something as simple as "addiction." People who self-medicate are trying to help themselves. They are trying to make themselves feel better, even if they do it in a misguided fashion. Quite frankly, some of the self-medicating I've seen here is a lot more creative than most of the drug regimens I've seen doctors prescribe.
Based on my past experience with ssri + stimulant combinations, I would put a lot of the "blame" on Paxil. The trouble is, you probably shouldn't drop Paxil if it's helping you, and there are very few people who do well over the long term on stimulants alone, so being on an antidepressant is probably a good idea, but you may want to look for an antidepressant that doesn't cause dopamine depletion to the extent that ssri's cause it. Have you ever tried Trazodone? Although it's very sedating, it does increase serotonin by a completely different mechanism than ssri's so you don't end up with the dopamine depletion that medicines like paxil and celexa can cause.
Going back to you and your doctor. . . if it's possible, I think you should talk to your doctor, but avoid the use of any negative terms like "addict" or "addiction." You have ADHD and SAD, and you need the medicines you're taking. Tell him you feel that they have helped you tremendously, but it seems as if the Paxil might be counteracting some of the benefits of the dexedrine. Or, you could say you think you might need more dexedrine or perhaps a different stimulant for a few months to prevent "Poop-out." You can do a little bit of research on ssri depletion of dopamine and present the information to your pdoc, who should know that anyway. Stop thinking of yourself as an addict, either by yourself or in front of others. You don't need to apologize for your "incorrect chemistry."
Try to think positively. Remind yourself of how far you've come through your own valiant efforts. Stop the negative thinking and don't fall into the trap of using those damaging diagnostic labels. Diagnostic labels are for the imbeciles who work at health insurance companies. They are for people who are incapable of "thinking outside the box" or incapable of thinking at all. You have a bright future. You might have to try some new antidepressants and spend some "drug holidays" away from dexedrine, by trying other stimulants or taking days or weekends off from dexedrine. You are obviously a very resourceful person, and you will find a solution to this problem.
Posted by sb417 on February 4, 2004, at 5:32:32
In reply to Re: Know a good remedy, posted by Keith Talent on February 3, 2004, at 20:34:41
Regarding Keith's suggestion, please do NOT combine Parnate/tranylcypromine with Paxil. MAOIs should NOT be combined with ssri's.
MAOIs can occasionally be safely combined with small doses of ritalin or dexedrine, but it has to be done under a doctor's supervision and with great care.
Posted by scott-d-o on February 4, 2004, at 16:26:07
In reply to Re: Struggling with Dexedrine Use Abuse, posted by Incorrect Chemistry on February 3, 2004, at 19:27:28
> The struggle I have in more detail is as follows:
>
> I am a month behind on Dexedrine because of abuse. I can get more, however, but I am scared I will abuse it, and I will always be behind – even for finals. Currently I am depressed, I can hardly get out of bed as I hate myself for feeling so out of control. Sometimes I get high and my anxiety (I think), causes me to pick at my face, sholders, and arms with tweezers. I have cuts on my face people ask about. I don’t want to go outside or to class.
>
> Although I abuse the meds, I still usually get 1-2 weeks of use. Those weeks I can perform decent in school?
>
> What do I do??????
>well, I suppose a benzodiazepine like clonazepam could help with anxiety and the picking at your face.. might want to throw away those tweezers as well..
Posted by Dr. Bob on February 4, 2004, at 22:23:52
In reply to Struggling with Dexedrine Use Abuse, posted by Incorrect Chemistry on February 3, 2004, at 17:46:47
> I can’t stop overtaking – overdosing, it seems beyond my control...
Sorry to be getting to this late, but I'd like to redirect this thread to Psycho-Babble Substance Use. Here's a link:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/subs/20040130/msgs/309573.html
Thanks,
Bob
This is the end of the thread.
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