Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 302044

Shown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

MOCLOBEMIDE with TRILEPTAL ?? Dr. BOB HELP

Posted by MARKED on January 17, 2004, at 14:34:08

I haven't been able to find any posts relating to this combination, can someone help ??

Is this safe to combine, i've had mixed reports ??

Also since Moclobemide is not as easily obtainable in the U.S. (and most people posting are from there) it has been hard to get much feedback. I am in Australia.

I have found moclobemide useful in the past (used for up to 2 years up to 850mg) then weaned off and felt stable for a number of years.

Relapsed a few minor times, after reading about Trileptal I believe a mood stabiliser would help. Now i'm cycling at least twice a day (not very manic, controllable, but more down and lack of energy, lethargic, emotionless even when I am happy).

I feel i have become used to Moclobemide in the past, and during a winter season of relapse for 3 months went back on them, but found no real effects after 3months up to 450mg. Hence i feel a mode stabiliser may help.

Any insight is appreciated :)

 

Re: MOCLOBEMIDE with TRILEPTAL ?? Dr. BOB HELP » MARKED

Posted by justyourlaugh on January 17, 2004, at 14:47:54

In reply to MOCLOBEMIDE with TRILEPTAL ?? Dr. BOB HELP, posted by MARKED on January 17, 2004, at 14:34:08

moclobemide did not help me at 600mg per day..
i take 1200 now and can see a difference ..i also use gAbapentin(900) as a mood stabilizer..
j

 

Re: MOCLOBEMIDE with TRILEPTAL ?? Dr. BOB HELP

Posted by Karen Moore on January 17, 2004, at 22:17:39

In reply to MOCLOBEMIDE with TRILEPTAL ?? Dr. BOB HELP, posted by MARKED on January 17, 2004, at 14:34:08

I researched this possibility just a month ago. There's a "theoretical" contraindiction for the two based on the observation that Tegretol
(and thus Trileptal) is structurally very similar to the TCAs, which in combination with traditional older MAOIs has meant trouble (hypertensive crisis I suspect). The British Formulary mentions this. My psydoc is pretty liberal but still didn't feel comfortable with this combo. So if you do try it, take it very easy. Good Luck!

 

Re: MOCLOBEMIDE with TRILEPTAL ?? Dr. BOB HELP » MARKED

Posted by JonW on January 18, 2004, at 22:35:37

In reply to MOCLOBEMIDE with TRILEPTAL ?? Dr. BOB HELP, posted by MARKED on January 17, 2004, at 14:34:08

I've been on these two together for a brief time without any major problem. I initially noticed a significantly increased heart rate, but that seemed to subside after a few days. Definitely keep an eye on your heartrate, though. I can say the two made me really happy and relaxed. Just a thought, but make sure your cycling isn't just the result of moclobemide going in and out of your system during the day. The half-life of MOC is no more than 2 hours. This caused me problems, and I ultimately decided to change to Lexapro. It's unfortunate... if MOC came in extended release, I'd probably still be on it.

Good Luck,
Jon :)

 

Re: MOCLOBEMIDE with TRILEPTAL ?? Dr. BOB HELP

Posted by Maxime on January 18, 2004, at 23:02:05

In reply to Re: MOCLOBEMIDE with TRILEPTAL ?? Dr. BOB HELP » MARKED, posted by JonW on January 18, 2004, at 22:35:37

I responded to your other post but wanted to add here that there is no problem taking the two. I am bipolar and taking Parnate with trileptal. I am still titrating my dose up so to tell you the truth I can't say whether it is an effective MS or not! LOL!

And what I am going to say is NOT directed at you Marked. I just wish that if someone is unsure about something, then don't say anything at all on this forum. Just because tegretol and MAOIs are contraindicated does not mean that Trileptal and MAOIs are because the chemical properties are different. And one of the main reasons that people use Trileptal over tegretol is because there are less side effects and less drug to drug interactions.

http://health.discovery.com/encyclopedias/checker/checker.jsp

I also find the site above helpful to check out drug interaction if I am thinking about asking my PDOC about a certain drug.

Good luck to you.

maxime

 

Re: MOCLOBEMIDE with TRILEPTAL ?? Dr. BOB HELP

Posted by MARKED on January 19, 2004, at 2:13:00

In reply to Re: MOCLOBEMIDE with TRILEPTAL ?? Dr. BOB HELP, posted by Maxime on January 18, 2004, at 23:02:05

Very good to get some feedback, I appreciate it all.
I read both your posts :)

Ok, a couple of people have mentioned parnate with trileptal......(maoi & anti-epileptic).

I am not sure if everyone is aware, but Moclobemide is a RIMA (reversable mono-amide oxidase inhibitor, specifically reversable A blocker (but partially reversable B blocker), and not at all a MAOI (wich are not reversable).

It's promising that you are finding the combination helpful....and i also agree, most psychdocs stay away from these combinations as they can easily highten mania or heart rates. But my question is more to do with the RIMA's and their safety (which genarally i'd think is much safer than MAOI's). But thanks, and keep us informed of your progress.

Also, because Trileptal has effects on the liver, this causes other drug interraction to be speed up, and metabolised. Also i'd say a controlled diet would be needed, because of the salt reduction effects, and possible increased heartbeat.

Mark


> I responded to your other post but wanted to add here that there is no problem taking the two. I am bipolar and taking Parnate with trileptal.

 

Re: MOCLOBEMIDE with TRILEPTAL ?? Dr. BOB HELP

Posted by MARKED on January 19, 2004, at 2:30:32

In reply to Re: MOCLOBEMIDE with TRILEPTAL ?? Dr. BOB HELP, posted by Karen Moore on January 17, 2004, at 22:17:39

ok, i am very aware of what you are saying, but i AS YET (would like to see your information) haven't seen any proof that specifically MOCLOBEMIDE with TRILEPTAL contraindicates one another. I have read about Tegretol and MAIO's. But Moclo... is a RIMA, and Trileptal is not Tegretol (although similar, its effects can be very different with other drugs). I don't accept that people think if an apple looks orange that it will taste like an orange (not intended to be critism at you, but rather info that is released to the public).

I am not sure if everyone is aware, but Moclobemide is a RIMA (reversable mono-amide oxidase inhibitor, specifically reversable A blocker (but partially reversable B blocker), and not at all a MAOI (wich are not reversable).
But my question is more to do with the RIMA's and their safety (which genarally i'd think is much safer than MAOI's). Also, because Trileptal has effects on the liver, this causes other drug interraction to be speed up, and metabolised. Also i'd say a controlled diet would be needed, because of the salt reduction effects, and possible increased heartbeat.

Also there is no specific DIRECT clinical info that i can find from either manufactures or other studies. There is though a new drug that is coming out very soon, that i have read testing on (which surprisingly seems like this very combination I am stating).

I'd like to see, (but appreciate people's views) more proof on specifically what i'm asking, or people that have tried this combination (obviously ethically, and under supervision of their psychdocs). My doc just plainly says NOPE they are not compatible, and I want some proof..which no one can slightly show me as yet.

Also I lately have contemplated.. (but this combination, surely would be very potent, although much more effective at lower doses, and minimal side effects) Brofaromine & Trileptal (this combination if studied would be what i feel very potentially a good stabilizer of this illness, as yet no studies have been done (although I suspect drug companies are starting to combine mixes like this to bring out new drugs.....smart huh? save money, make millions more)

Mark


> I researched this possibility just a month ago. There's a "theoretical" contraindiction for the two based on the observation that Tegretol
> (and thus Trileptal) is structurally very similar to the TCAs, which in combination with traditional older MAOIs has meant trouble (hypertensive crisis I suspect).

 

Re: MOCLOBEMIDE with TRILEPTAL ?? Dr. BOB HELP

Posted by MARKED on January 19, 2004, at 2:51:19

In reply to Re: MOCLOBEMIDE with TRILEPTAL ?? Dr. BOB HELP » MARKED, posted by JonW on January 18, 2004, at 22:35:37

> I've been on these two together for a brief time without any major problem.
EXCELLENT JUST WHAT I WOULD EXPECT

> I initially noticed a significantly increased heart rate, but that seemed to subside after a few days.
YES, THIS WAS ONE OF MY INITIAL CONCERNS, BUT THE TRILEPTAL I BELIEVE COUNTERACTS THIS (with the Reversable effect of the RIMA once it has depleated the mono-amine, the mood stabilizer brings it back in order) AND YOUR POST HIGHLIGHTS THAT TO ME.

>I can say the two made me really happy and relaxed.
YES, I THOUGHT THE EXACT THING...BASED ON HOW OTHERS HAVE RELAYED THEIR EXPERIENCES OF THE DRUGS SINGULARLY (also my experience on Moclobemide, made me think it's almost it but somethings missing)

>Just a thought, but make sure your cycling isn't just the result of moclobemide going in and out of your system during the day.
I HAVEN"T STARTED ANY PRESCRIPTION DRUG AS YET, BEEN CLEAR FOR 2 YEARS, CYCLING IS DEFINATELY NOT INDUCED BY ANY DRUG IN ME AT MOMENT.

>The half-life of MOC is no more than 2 hours. This caused me problems,
VERY SORRY THIS HAPPENED, BUT ALSO A CONCERN I THOUGHT WOULD BE THE CASE. I HAVE CONTEMPLATED USING Brofaromine & Trileptal (SINCE BROFAROMINE iS 100 times more stronger than Moclobemide (with mono-amine A inhibition, and also a stimulant, with mono-amine B inhibitition as well, so better mood too, and has a LIFE OF 12 hours, which was also one of my concerns.(YOUR POST SEEMS TO CONFIRM MY THOUGHTS).

>... and I ultimately decided to change to Lexapro. It's unfortunate... if MOC came in extended release, I'd probably still be on it.
CONSIDER WHAT I"VE SAID ABOVE....IF IT MAKES SENSE. LOTS OF READING I HAVE FOUND THIS TO BE A GOOD COMBINATION, I"M AMAZED NOBODY"S ON IT.

Also I have found info of new drug tests and they have been directly correlated with these specific drugs (which only makes me think what i'm contemplation the drug companies are as well). I suspect drug companies are starting to combine mixes like this to bring out new drugs.....smart huh? save money, make millions more. When will we be able to try them, hmmmmmm let's just say George Bush's decision to put someone on Mars would probably come before it.

I'd like to know more on how you go with your combo....thanks :)

Mark

 

MOCLOBEMIDE or BROFAROMINE TRILEPTAL feedback?

Posted by MARKED on January 19, 2004, at 3:00:56

In reply to Re: MOCLOBEMIDE with TRILEPTAL ?? Dr. BOB HELP, posted by MARKED on January 19, 2004, at 2:51:19

Anyone that can shed some light on either of these combinations, I would appreciate it.

Clinical tests, patient experiences, drug interraction etc.

I have found Moclobemide to be the most helpful in my 12years of having Bipolar, Depression, Cycling. But it always was missing something.

Mark

 

Re: MOCLOBEMIDE with TRILEPTAL ?? Dr. BOB HELP

Posted by MARKED on January 19, 2004, at 3:07:42

In reply to Re: MOCLOBEMIDE with TRILEPTAL ?? Dr. BOB HELP » MARKED, posted by justyourlaugh on January 17, 2004, at 14:47:54

Thanks, the combination seems promising. I wish you luck....I feel that is a good mix as well. Wish we could manage it better without such high doses, but makes sense why we need it that high since it really is acting to deplete certain chemicals to have the body/brain etc stimulate higher doses or production.

> moclobemide did not help me at 600mg per day..
> i take 1200 now and can see a difference ..i also use gAbapentin(900) as a mood stabilizer..
> j

 

Re: MOCLOBEMIDE with TRILEPTAL ?? Dr. BOB HELP » Maxime

Posted by Karen Moore on January 19, 2004, at 14:30:49

In reply to Re: MOCLOBEMIDE with TRILEPTAL ?? Dr. BOB HELP, posted by Maxime on January 18, 2004, at 23:02:05

Maxime,
earlier you wrote:
>I just wish that if someone is unsure about something, then don't say anything at all on this forum.

Please, as the Italians would say, "Ma gavte la nata!"
And, for the sake of keeping this forum open and friendly, please don't tell brand new posters to "shut up and go away".
I think its great that someone on this forum is trying this precise combination. Please keep us up to date on your progress and best of luck!

Marked,
Sorry to say, but (for me) one or tow people's experience on a drug is never enough to call it good. It's not even marginally science. If I told you I never ODed on Heroine nor became addicted, would you then conclude that it was safe for all of us and not take appropriate precautions?!! I hope not. The fact is, most contraindications are not black and white. You have to make a decision regarding your level of risk. I suspect you know all that though. I never proposed that I was providing you with "knowledge", just facts that seem to indicate a level of care is in order. I've done exactly that (taken it slowly) in other cases with drugs that were more clearly contraindicated (ex: MAOI's + stimulants) and been quite successful! But I've also ended up in the hospital 3 times in the last two years for combination of drugs that were NOT clearly contraindicated but still made me very physically sick. There is simply too much individual variation to accurately predict, all we can ever do is analyze the facts/stats/theories, determine the risk
and proceed accordingly. In the case of Moclobemide and Trileptal, there just haven't been any structured studies or detailed clinical reports written on the combo yet so it's very gray. It could be quite wonderful though!
So, best of luck, let us know what happens.

 

Re: MOCLOBEMIDE with TRILEPTAL ?? Dr. BOB HELP

Posted by MARKED on January 19, 2004, at 22:02:50

In reply to Re: MOCLOBEMIDE with TRILEPTAL ?? Dr. BOB HELP » Maxime, posted by Karen Moore on January 19, 2004, at 14:30:49

hehe, ok...I just wanted to step in before there is a further backlash here. :) (this is light hearted, and honest), Maxine & Karen.

I think obviously words can be taken into varying contexts by whomever reads it, and since this forum is based on written word rather than vocal speech or emotive expression of other forms, it has potential to personally offend people.

I am not at all offended by anyone on here, and ask that for whatever response or expression of a person's experience they share on here be a neutral one that doesn't offend others by relating to hidden context of expression, or ethical debate of what's right or wrong.

Also, being a Cognitive Scientist I very much do not take one person's belief/experience as fact, and definately not LOCK-IN science. But people's experiences and views are definately important to me, and this is what the forum is in essence bringing together.

Also knowledge to me is not fact at all, but rather an extension of a view. This forum is a great way to gain knowledge, but yes being wise/facticual is very different, and obviously individualistic.

Also, just to be clear I am not trying this combination, just rather studying it.

Also I feel that everyone in this forum should have a right to express themselves, but be well aware of seperating themselves from what they read, as it may become personal at times. Dilegence in areas of what someone says, is a good common ground. Someone may actually mean something different than what another interprets it. Read what they write, not what is created in your mind. I have seen so many arguements start from misunderstandings, because of what either the poster or reader interprets in their own mentality.

Keep it real, informative, expressive, yet personal so that it can be interpreted by all. If someone has a personal issue, ask it directly to whomever it relates.....In responding to someone respect the person's values (as we really are limited in what we all know of each other in a few lines).

Let's share information to better help us all, so basically Maxine & Karen I see and undertstand both your views and appreciate them greatly, since you have taken the time to express feedback. ;)

 

New Drug T-794 TEST TRIAL ...Good News Links

Posted by MARKED on January 20, 2004, at 5:02:34

In reply to MOCLOBEMIDE or BROFAROMINE TRILEPTAL feedback?, posted by MARKED on January 19, 2004, at 3:00:56

Here's a link of a very good trial that has been conducted, hopefully further research is continuing.
The drug (no name as yet) but coded "T-794" has also been directly correlated with Moclobemide & Brofaromine which relates to what my previous posts highlight.
http://jpet.aspetjournals.org/cgi/content/full/284/3/983

Also some other links, which I have obtained knowledge (and facts) from relating to my posts (in case no one knows what the hell i'm on about here). These links are written based on medical knowledge, and are highlighting trials or tests performed.
http://www.acnp.org/g4/GN401000046/CH046.html

http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S0004-282X2001000400032&lng=en&nrm=iso

Hopefully shed more light for others :)

 

Re: MOCLOBEMIDE with TRILEPTAL ?? Dr. BOB HELP

Posted by Maxime on January 21, 2004, at 11:54:00

In reply to Re: MOCLOBEMIDE with TRILEPTAL ?? Dr. BOB HELP » Maxime, posted by Karen Moore on January 19, 2004, at 14:30:49

I would never, ever, tell someone to shut and go away. I was simply referring to fact that someone assumed that since tegretol and trileptal are related that there would be an interaction. But I wanted Marked to know that is not the truth. That's all.

Thanks for your good wishes. The same goes for you. :)

Maxime


> Maxime,
> earlier you wrote:
> >I just wish that if someone is unsure about something, then don't say anything at all on this forum.
>
> Please, as the Italians would say, "Ma gavte la nata!"
> And, for the sake of keeping this forum open and friendly, please don't tell brand new posters to "shut up and go away".
> I think its great that someone on this forum is trying this precise combination. Please keep us up to date on your progress and best of luck!
>
> Marked,
> Sorry to say, but (for me) one or tow people's experience on a drug is never enough to call it good. It's not even marginally science. If I told you I never ODed on Heroine nor became addicted, would you then conclude that it was safe for all of us and not take appropriate precautions?!! I hope not. The fact is, most contraindications are not black and white. You have to make a decision regarding your level of risk. I suspect you know all that though. I never proposed that I was providing you with "knowledge", just facts that seem to indicate a level of care is in order. I've done exactly that (taken it slowly) in other cases with drugs that were more clearly contraindicated (ex: MAOI's + stimulants) and been quite successful! But I've also ended up in the hospital 3 times in the last two years for combination of drugs that were NOT clearly contraindicated but still made me very physically sick. There is simply too much individual variation to accurately predict, all we can ever do is analyze the facts/stats/theories, determine the risk
> and proceed accordingly. In the case of Moclobemide and Trileptal, there just haven't been any structured studies or detailed clinical reports written on the combo yet so it's very gray. It could be quite wonderful though!
> So, best of luck, let us know what happens.

 

Re: MOCLOBEMIDE with TRILEPTAL ?? Dr. BOB HELP

Posted by MARKED on January 31, 2004, at 16:22:46

In reply to Re: MOCLOBEMIDE with TRILEPTAL ?? Dr. BOB HELP » MARKED, posted by JonW on January 18, 2004, at 22:35:37

I'm getting close to starting again on prescriptions (after waiting 2years while doing therapy courses CBT, support group etc), i've spoken to my psych/docs and read about as much as is possible, it's definately a river that hasn't been crossed too often (in this combination), yet I feel it really seems the simplist combination that may work (to me based on good feedback/personal use of moclobomide & tegretol). The heartrate is what was a concern to pretty much everyone, so i'll definately take it easy as i start (as well as the possible seretonin syndrome-which is probably part of the cause). I'm hoping i can make it happen this time, and make it last without critical side effects. If it lasts longer than 2 years i'd be pretty happy (as that is the longest time i've been stable for on prescriptions, i really can't take the ultra rapid cycling anymore, it's getting crazy......5 defined moods a day right down to the hour (every 3days on & 2days off), it's like i would be happier being a robot).

> I've been on these two together for a brief time without any major problem. I initially noticed a significantly increased heart rate, but that seemed to subside after a few days. Definitely keep an eye on your heartrate, though. I can say the two made me really happy and relaxed. Just a thought, but make sure your cycling isn't just the result of moclobemide going in and out of your system during the day. The half-life of MOC is no more than 2 hours. This caused me problems, and I ultimately decided to change to Lexapro. It's unfortunate... if MOC came in extended release, I'd probably still be on it.
>
> Good Luck,
> Jon :)


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