![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 6092 to 6116 of 10407. Go back in thread:
Posted by Zellie on January 12, 2004, at 13:23:23
In reply to Re: Am I the only one here that likes Effexor?, posted by kattay on January 12, 2004, at 9:07:48
Your question made me laugh right out loud (lol), because I can never remember anything! In addition to GAD and Depression, I have ADHD. My thoughts flit so quickly, that I can't remember things often from one minute to the next. I head downstairs to do the laundry, notice something that needs to be attended to, which then causes me to go off on a tangent, and the laundry never does get my attention.
On Saturday, I was de-cluttering under my kitchen sink, and needed to go downstairs for something. When I was down there, I saw something else I'd meant to bring upstairs, so I brought it up to the living room. To make a long story short, one-and-a-half hours later, I had rearranged all of the furniture in the living room, before returning to the kitchen to see that all the cleaning stuff from under the sink was still all over the counter! Side-tracked, forgetful...I live in a constant state of it.
Because it can get quite embarrassing when I forget what I just said 10 seconds ago, I have learning to just be up front about my bad memory with people. I apologize, ask them what I had just said, and carry on from there. I used to try to hide my bad memory, and the anxiety it caused me sent me into panic attacks. I have learned that I am just not slick. So I don't try to look like I am any more. That way, it's odd, but by acknowledging it to other people, I am no longer anxious about it. The more anxious I had gotten about it before, the less room there was in my brain to remember things!
I utilize a lot of different strategies now, to help keep my bad memory from getting me into too much trouble. I send myself e-mails, I use post-it notes the minute I think of something I'll need to remember later, I always have a pen and paper to write things down, I use Microsoft Outlook to list tasks on the computer that I need to do....all these things help to jog my memory, since it is most unreliable!
If the Effexor has made it worse, I haven't noticed. I did notice that when I started on Wellbutrin which I also take, I would forget things from one second to the next a lot. It stopped happening after about 2 weeks, so now I'm back to my usual 10 second memory!
Hopefully this side-effect will stop for you soon. In the meantime, try not to sweat it, because if you do, you may deplete whatever remaining memory resources you may have because of the anxiety over it.
I was going to add something else, too, but I've forgotten what (just kidding)!
Kindest regards,
Zellie> Zellie,
> I have a horrible short term memory. Did you notice that your short term memory is worse with the effexor? I can't even have a good fight with my hubby because of my memory. I say something smart ass and he says what and i say i can't remember. He thinks i'm being sarcastic but i really can't remember. I hope it gets better.
Posted by omegon on January 12, 2004, at 15:34:48
In reply to Re: Am I the only one here that likes Effexor?, posted by kattay on January 11, 2004, at 20:02:13
> has effexor xr ever give anyone bouts of rage and or major depression? For the women: I can't tell if it's my pms or the med. I get these bouts of being so upset. I can't stop crying. I could blame it on pms cuz that time is coming up but i'm just not sure.
Yes and yes. Rage and major depression - that's a fairly accurate description of me (male, so probably not pms) over the last couple of weeks.Quick history... I was on it since October-ish (I think - memory is more than a little vague right now beyond a week ago) for depression & anxiety, having switched from paroxetine.
At one point, efexor worked pretty well. I got mild stimulant effects in the first couple of weeks, but this quickly decreased and the 150mg dose (75 x 2) just made me unbelievably sleepy and apathetic. Then I reached what seemed to be an effective final dosage (225mg) and (after a few days of 12-hour adrenaline rushes) the effects stabilised for about three weeks - felt calm, more confident than I can remember in years, depression under control, but had the energy to actually enjoy my job and working with people, which was something of a novelty.
Then a week before Christmas, the sleepiness was back and worse than before. I could hardly get out of bed, motivate myself enough to eat and buy food, etc. How did I manage to drive 60 miles each way to work?!
Over the Christmas holidays, staying with family, I felt increasingly agitated. No longer sleepy but still no motivation for anything! Extreme irritability, aggressive (rare for me), falling out with my family, etc etc.
Then back home on my own last Tuesday. I bought a book to read on the train (Michel Houellebecq - Platform; do read it but not, _NOT_ when feeling at all uncomfortable with the world or yourself!) I finished it the next day; it triggered a couple of hours' crying spell (unheard of for me), complete loss of all hope, etc. Then rapidly changing mood, going randomly from calm and relaxed and apathetic, to overconfidence (everything's fine, I'm not depressed any more), to anxious rage to tearful despair over the course of an hour. This while STILL ON the same 225mg efexor. Hadn't missed a dose or anything. The mood swings are a horrible, insidious effect as I couldn't seem to observe them changing, I'd just suddenly realise I was feeling completely different from half an hour ago. Very disorientating, being a different person every few minutes. There were also quite a few occasions also when it would shift *instantly* - I'd go from crying hopelessly to sitting there mildly puzzled and wondering what that was all about, as quickly as turning my head. Anyone have any suggestions on how to integrate that and retain some sense of my mood actually meaning anything?
Fortunately I already had a doctor's appointment booked next day, having been considering switching to something else before Christmas due to the sleepiness I was having then. That morning's (Thursday) was the last dose of efexor, and I started fluoxetine on Friday - which I pretty much chose myself, mainly for its long half-life, as the GP no longer seems to know what to do with me and has referred me on.
I can honestly say that the last five days have been the worst I've ever had. Combined depression / efexor-induced psychotic howling despair / rapid mood swings / efexor withdrawals (zap! jangle!) / initial fluoxetine side effects / whatever this has been. Oh, yeah, and the nightmares. I'd never imagined a dream could, well... get inside your head... like that. Every tiny self-doubt, unpleasant memory and subconscious neurosis dredged up and turned into a drama which which I am forced to watch and star in. There was some kind of infinite spiralling recursive dream in there somewhere as well, which contained all the others and gave them meaning and sinister purpose repeated endlessly with variations. Kind of a grand unified reincarnated paranoid conspiracy theory of a dream. It doesn't make sense from outside, but it did from within, and I could see its dread genius - that makes it worse, because I could never explain to anyone (or even understand myself) how awful it was or why. The dreams going up on efexor were weird. The dreams going down redefined my concept of hell.
I seem now to be over the worst of now. At least, I don't remember my dreams from yesterday. I haven't quite burst into tears yet today and I can walk in a straight line without the world shaking or lightning hitting my brain, which is pleasant. I suppose I should be grateful I still managed to go to work, since that's about all that's keeping me going right now. And statistically there must be a lot of good weeks ahead, perhaps an infinite number of good weeks, before the next one as bad as that one!
Posted by kattay on January 12, 2004, at 17:41:09
In reply to Re: Am I the only one here that likes Effexor? » kattay, posted by Zellie on January 12, 2004, at 13:23:23
Thanks Zellie. I needed a good chuckle. Thanks for lifting my mood. Now i need to go cook dinner. oh, what fun it is.
Posted by KFRAN on January 12, 2004, at 19:54:29
In reply to Re: effexor and alcohol , posted by yawnbob on November 2, 2003, at 20:22:56
I just want to know can i still drink in safety on Effex?
Posted by KFRAN on January 12, 2004, at 20:26:24
In reply to Re: Am I the only one here that likes Effexor?, posted by Twuffy on January 11, 2004, at 20:06:53
I have been on for only 5 days and a real positive difference already. was on Prozac which worked well for at least 7 years, then stopped working. I may try it again someday. Hope the effex is as good
Posted by tetheredcat on January 12, 2004, at 23:00:10
In reply to Re: Heart Rate Advice Needed Please..... » Gummybear, posted by Zellie on January 11, 2004, at 21:42:06
I had major anxiety issues (still do) and major depression (it runs in the family for one thing, and i STILL have the depression) effexor xr helped for a bit.. at first 75 mg... it was great.. then.. it started to "wear off" and i needed MORE.. up to 150 mg.. then it balanced out for a bit.. and then i started my wild roller coaster ride.. my BP went from 110/80 to 140/99-110. my heart rate bacame erratic, from the norm of about 80-85 bpm to 100+ and then the palpitations started.. it was few and far between at first.. then every time i laid down id lay there and feel my heart flip-flop.
then my doc decided to cut the effexor cold turkey. she decided not to refill the prescription until i came in for a "follow-up". it takes a week at LEAST to get in to see and i was VERY clear about the fact that i had NO remaining pills. its been 8 days now. my heart rate does NOT drop below 115. resting.
i havent checked my BP yet-i havent had time as i do have a busy schedule (new nurse and still a student) but i am definately looking for a new doc and am looking into pressing charges for my physical suffering-let alone the CRAZY crap mentally ive been going through becuz she did this to me.
well thats just me. hope you dont experience anything near as bad as what ive been and still am, going through.
> For me, the anxiety was the first thing to be targeted by the Effexor. (I have GAD, Depression, and ADHD.) Then, the depression was the next thing to be controlled, as the dose increased (it has been greatly reduced since getting to the 112.5 mark, and has been very well controlled since being at the 150 mg mark, which I have been at since September). By the time I got to 150 mg, the ADHD was also being helped (Seratonin is affected initially,affecting the GAD and the Depression, then at the 150 mg threshold, dopamine is apparently also affected, hence the ADHD is not helped until 150 mg is reached).
>
> As for the weird heartrate, I suggest you call your doc tomorrow. Heartrate and blood pressure must be closely monitored constantly while on Effexor, since an increase or eratic rhythm can occur as a side-effect in some individuals. The fact that you are feeling these things may not mean that you are going to have that side-effect long-term. On the other hand, it may, and you may have to switch meds.
>
> Kindest regards,
> Zellie
>
>
> > Does anyone know what the normal heart rate for a 23 year old female would be?
> > My resting heart rate - when I am LYING down - tends to be like 88 - 95 beats / minute and I feel kinda sick and nausea at this time too.
> > I can only guess what my heart rate is when I stand up and go upstairs - feels like my heart is going to pop out of my chest!!
> >
> > I am on Effexor XR for anxiety/depression (now for 5 weeks at 75mg) and I am not sure if this heart rate increase is from my anxiety or the meds....hmmm.
> >
> > Also, I get slight twitches in my body... I think from the meds.
> >
> > Does anyone know what dose of Effexor is recommended to decrease anxiety - because I know certain meds work for different things at different doses. Anyone know???
> > Greatly appreciated!
> >
> > Also, does Effexor XR affect ones memory and concentration ability?? I am currently studying for a test and I feel like everything I read I just can't remember or concentrate on!!!! ahhhhh.
> >
> > Please - some advice desperately sought. G.Bear.
>
>
Posted by biogurl on January 12, 2004, at 23:46:10
In reply to Re: effexor and alcohol , posted by KFRAN on January 12, 2004, at 19:54:29
> I just want to know can i still drink in safety on Effex?
I found this info. on athealth.com. Hope it helps.
Can EFFEXOR XR be used safely in patients who consume alcohol?
EFFEXOR XR has not been shown to increase the alcohol-induced impairment of mental and motor skills. Nevertheless, advise patients taking EFFEXOR XR to avoid alcohol.
Posted by tetheredcat on January 12, 2004, at 23:52:37
In reply to Re: effexor and alcohol , posted by KFRAN on January 12, 2004, at 19:54:29
antidepressants really should not be mixed with depressants.. :)
if you choose to however, know this: in my own experience, effexor ENHANCES the "truth serum" quality of alcohol. ;)
boy, it was an enlightening experience for my boyfriend :Pps.. we *are* still together ;)
> I just want to know can i still drink in safety on Effex?
Posted by Salty_Dog on January 13, 2004, at 2:29:55
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR? , posted by biogurl on January 11, 2004, at 22:48:06
> > These symptoms are pretty normal and lasted a week or two for me. I would try and stick to it, I have been on Effexor XR 75mg a day for 3 months and truely feel I am starting to get better, I was having very bad panic attacks and had become extremely withdrawn. My panic attacks went away almost instantly and am now starting to put my life back together, though am still a high degree of procrastination and a lack of drive, can anyone help me out on that one.
>
> I've had very similar effects with effexor that you have had. I've been on 75 mg since mid November and think I'm ready for an increase. I start back to school tomorrow and it's my last semester before I graduate and I'm scared because I can't help my own procrastination and lack of drive and I only have 6 credit hours. I want to run away and skip out on school this semester. Who cares about graduation anyways? Oh yeah, my parents do!
> So... I am also looking for any advice on lack of drive and procrastination problems. Thanks
>
Most SSRI's fog or make the patient feel unable to think on all 8 cylinders (8 out of 8). I was facing multiple technical interviews/tests in hopes of obtaining a job when I first started on Effexor XR, so, my Dr. gave me samples of Provigil (Modafinil) which I am happy to report, saved the day. Provigil is a class 4 prescription used primarily for exessive daytime sleepiness (EDS) associated with narcolepsy and other uses as determinied by your Dr.Provigil does not seem to be addictive or need increasing as other stimulates do. Once you and your Dr. have established the dosage (My dosage is 600 mg per day in two dosings) then you need to maintain vigilance and care as not to go over the prescribed dosage. This will better ensure a lack of "addiction" and less re-bound latter when 'finals' are over and a rest is warranted. This is a far better alternitive than crawling under a rock. This drug is one of those 'mind drugs' discussed on 60 minutes some time back. Provigil will not interfere with normal sleep patterns provided it is taken early in the day (Before noon if you are on a daytime schedule). If you take it too late in your day it will still allow sleep (After the first 2 or 3 days) but I find it is not as satisfying as it would have been otherwise.
I take 600 mg of Effexor XR daily and I can tell you that sleeping for 2-4 days at a shot is what my body would like to do. During my sleep, I am allowed to dream as though I was watching a 'good movie' packed with freinds, family, action and surpizes. So, I think you can see what I would do left to my own devices (Total Reality Avoidance)
Recently I asked my Dr. to add Mirtazapine (Remeron) to my now short list of medications. I am happy to report it is begining to clear the really 'bummer' depression I have lived with for about 3 years now. The Effexor XR kept me from suicide but was not going far enough toward a normal life again and I was already on a very high dosage. With some luck I will taper down the Effexor XR to a more normal dosage (~300 mg) and then possibly taper off completely.I am a Bi-Polar (Rapid cycling) to the extreme which has cost me practicly everything on more than one occasion. I can't believe it took so long for someone to spot what I was going through. I used to treat my Bi-Polar with Alcohol and "Street" drugs to the extreme. I was 14 years clean and sober before reaching this diagnosis. By no means does this mean I have solved my addiction (drugs/alcohol) problems but it will help ensure I won't return to that Hell again if I continue my treatment (Which includes A.A.)
Posted by Zellie on January 13, 2004, at 8:22:49
In reply to Sudden descent into Efexor hell » kattay, posted by omegon on January 12, 2004, at 15:34:48
My heart felt heavy as I read this posting. I am sorry you have gone through this.
As I read it, I recalled that, as I was commencing the Effexor, my pdoc watched closely for signs of any mood instability, stating that it can be a mood de-stablizer in some people. He titrated me up in wee little baby steps, for that reason, to watch like a hawk for any signs of mood instability. I see from your posting that this is what he meant.
Effexor MUST be titrated down in even teensier, weensier baby steps. Otherwise, what you experienced, the pure hell you have described, is a sure thing. WHEN WILL THIS INFORMATION GET WELL INTO THE HANDS OF ALL THE PRESCRIBING PHYSICIANS OUT THERE???!!!
I am soooo sad every time I read a posting of someone's being taken off Effexor abruptly. It is beyond sad. It is so unnecessary, too.
My hope to all of you who have suffered this way, is that you will somehow have enough strength once you are through the worst of it, to communicate your experience in a constructive way to the drug company, and to the governing medical body in your state, province, country, etc., so that, hopefully, in the future, no one else will have to go through what you have endured.
In the meantime, try to find yourself a very good pdoc (psychiatrist, not just a G.P.) who specializes in this area. He/she will likely be much better informed about the biochemistry involved in all the drugs used to treat depression, anxiety, BP, etc., and will provide you with a much more positive experience. I love my G.P., and I think he is extremely competent, but I am way, way, way better off in the hands of my pdoc, who has earned my deepest respect and trust (I know not everyone has had that experience with their pdoc...so do your research, and keep your eyes open along the way).
I hope things will be much improved for you very soon.
Kindest regards,
Zellie> > has effexor xr ever give anyone bouts of rage and or major depression? For the women: I can't tell if it's my pms or the med. I get these bouts of being so upset. I can't stop crying. I could blame it on pms cuz that time is coming up but i'm just not sure.
>
>
> Yes and yes. Rage and major depression - that's a fairly accurate description of me (male, so probably not pms) over the last couple of weeks.
>
> Quick history... I was on it since October-ish (I think - memory is more than a little vague right now beyond a week ago) for depression & anxiety, having switched from paroxetine.
>
> At one point, efexor worked pretty well. I got mild stimulant effects in the first couple of weeks, but this quickly decreased and the 150mg dose (75 x 2) just made me unbelievably sleepy and apathetic. Then I reached what seemed to be an effective final dosage (225mg) and (after a few days of 12-hour adrenaline rushes) the effects stabilised for about three weeks - felt calm, more confident than I can remember in years, depression under control, but had the energy to actually enjoy my job and working with people, which was something of a novelty.
>
> Then a week before Christmas, the sleepiness was back and worse than before. I could hardly get out of bed, motivate myself enough to eat and buy food, etc. How did I manage to drive 60 miles each way to work?!
>
> Over the Christmas holidays, staying with family, I felt increasingly agitated. No longer sleepy but still no motivation for anything! Extreme irritability, aggressive (rare for me), falling out with my family, etc etc.
>
> Then back home on my own last Tuesday. I bought a book to read on the train (Michel Houellebecq - Platform; do read it but not, _NOT_ when feeling at all uncomfortable with the world or yourself!) I finished it the next day; it triggered a couple of hours' crying spell (unheard of for me), complete loss of all hope, etc. Then rapidly changing mood, going randomly from calm and relaxed and apathetic, to overconfidence (everything's fine, I'm not depressed any more), to anxious rage to tearful despair over the course of an hour. This while STILL ON the same 225mg efexor. Hadn't missed a dose or anything. The mood swings are a horrible, insidious effect as I couldn't seem to observe them changing, I'd just suddenly realise I was feeling completely different from half an hour ago. Very disorientating, being a different person every few minutes. There were also quite a few occasions also when it would shift *instantly* - I'd go from crying hopelessly to sitting there mildly puzzled and wondering what that was all about, as quickly as turning my head. Anyone have any suggestions on how to integrate that and retain some sense of my mood actually meaning anything?
>
> Fortunately I already had a doctor's appointment booked next day, having been considering switching to something else before Christmas due to the sleepiness I was having then. That morning's (Thursday) was the last dose of efexor, and I started fluoxetine on Friday - which I pretty much chose myself, mainly for its long half-life, as the GP no longer seems to know what to do with me and has referred me on.
>
> I can honestly say that the last five days have been the worst I've ever had. Combined depression / efexor-induced psychotic howling despair / rapid mood swings / efexor withdrawals (zap! jangle!) / initial fluoxetine side effects / whatever this has been. Oh, yeah, and the nightmares. I'd never imagined a dream could, well... get inside your head... like that. Every tiny self-doubt, unpleasant memory and subconscious neurosis dredged up and turned into a drama which which I am forced to watch and star in. There was some kind of infinite spiralling recursive dream in there somewhere as well, which contained all the others and gave them meaning and sinister purpose repeated endlessly with variations. Kind of a grand unified reincarnated paranoid conspiracy theory of a dream. It doesn't make sense from outside, but it did from within, and I could see its dread genius - that makes it worse, because I could never explain to anyone (or even understand myself) how awful it was or why. The dreams going up on efexor were weird. The dreams going down redefined my concept of hell.
>
> I seem now to be over the worst of now. At least, I don't remember my dreams from yesterday. I haven't quite burst into tears yet today and I can walk in a straight line without the world shaking or lightning hitting my brain, which is pleasant. I suppose I should be grateful I still managed to go to work, since that's about all that's keeping me going right now. And statistically there must be a lot of good weeks ahead, perhaps an infinite number of good weeks, before the next one as bad as that one!
>
Posted by Zellie on January 13, 2004, at 8:31:06
In reply to Re: Heart Rate Advice Needed Please....., posted by tetheredcat on January 12, 2004, at 23:00:10
Dear Tetheredcat (adore the name!)
Please read the posting I just made in response to Omegan's posting, about coming off Effexor abruptly. My heart sinks as I read the pain that some of you are suffering because you have been taken off Effexor too abruptly, unnecessarily.
I understand your doctor's urgency to get your heartrate and blood pressure under control, but in my opinion, it ought to have never occurred in this manner.
My advice is to not delay in getting medical attention from a trained pdoc immediately. If need be, the fastest way to get in is to go to the emergency clinic in your local hospital. This is, indeed, a serious issue. My pdoc wouldn't leave me in your scenario for one instant. You must find someone as vigilant to take over your care, especially when it is affecting your heart rate and blood pressure as it has.
I wish and pray for you to find and get the help and care you need soon.
Kindest regards,
Zellie> I had major anxiety issues (still do) and major depression (it runs in the family for one thing, and i STILL have the depression) effexor xr helped for a bit.. at first 75 mg... it was great.. then.. it started to "wear off" and i needed MORE.. up to 150 mg.. then it balanced out for a bit.. and then i started my wild roller coaster ride.. my BP went from 110/80 to 140/99-110. my heart rate bacame erratic, from the norm of about 80-85 bpm to 100+ and then the palpitations started.. it was few and far between at first.. then every time i laid down id lay there and feel my heart flip-flop.
> then my doc decided to cut the effexor cold turkey. she decided not to refill the prescription until i came in for a "follow-up". it takes a week at LEAST to get in to see and i was VERY clear about the fact that i had NO remaining pills. its been 8 days now. my heart rate does NOT drop below 115. resting.
> i havent checked my BP yet-i havent had time as i do have a busy schedule (new nurse and still a student) but i am definately looking for a new doc and am looking into pressing charges for my physical suffering-let alone the CRAZY crap mentally ive been going through becuz she did this to me.
> well thats just me. hope you dont experience anything near as bad as what ive been and still am, going through.
>
>
> > For me, the anxiety was the first thing to be targeted by the Effexor. (I have GAD, Depression, and ADHD.) Then, the depression was the next thing to be controlled, as the dose increased (it has been greatly reduced since getting to the 112.5 mark, and has been very well controlled since being at the 150 mg mark, which I have been at since September). By the time I got to 150 mg, the ADHD was also being helped (Seratonin is affected initially,affecting the GAD and the Depression, then at the 150 mg threshold, dopamine is apparently also affected, hence the ADHD is not helped until 150 mg is reached).
> >
> > As for the weird heartrate, I suggest you call your doc tomorrow. Heartrate and blood pressure must be closely monitored constantly while on Effexor, since an increase or eratic rhythm can occur as a side-effect in some individuals. The fact that you are feeling these things may not mean that you are going to have that side-effect long-term. On the other hand, it may, and you may have to switch meds.
> >
> > Kindest regards,
> > Zellie
> >
> >
> > > Does anyone know what the normal heart rate for a 23 year old female would be?
> > > My resting heart rate - when I am LYING down - tends to be like 88 - 95 beats / minute and I feel kinda sick and nausea at this time too.
> > > I can only guess what my heart rate is when I stand up and go upstairs - feels like my heart is going to pop out of my chest!!
> > >
> > > I am on Effexor XR for anxiety/depression (now for 5 weeks at 75mg) and I am not sure if this heart rate increase is from my anxiety or the meds....hmmm.
> > >
> > > Also, I get slight twitches in my body... I think from the meds.
> > >
> > > Does anyone know what dose of Effexor is recommended to decrease anxiety - because I know certain meds work for different things at different doses. Anyone know???
> > > Greatly appreciated!
> > >
> > > Also, does Effexor XR affect ones memory and concentration ability?? I am currently studying for a test and I feel like everything I read I just can't remember or concentrate on!!!! ahhhhh.
> > >
> > > Please - some advice desperately sought. G.Bear.
> >
> >
>
>
Posted by omegon on January 13, 2004, at 15:22:24
In reply to Re: Sudden descent into Efexor hell » omegon, posted by Zellie on January 13, 2004, at 8:22:49
Zellie,
Thanks for your post and your concern in helping everyone avoid this particular hell! (on which I have more to say below) I agree it's far too common, judging from what I read on here.
I'm feeling somewhat more functional now, thanks, though still rather worse than I was before Christmas, and enjoying a variety of interesting new fluoxetine side effects. Sexual pleasure? -what's that? Insomnia? -yes, that I am now beginning to get intimately acquainted with. Bizarrely it was the other way around on Efexor, ALMOST worth the mood swings (do I mean that? the answer is mood-dependent), and I don't think fluoxetine will be sustainable for me if it stays like this, especially with the emotional numbness it's producing. (Would be tolerable if I was actually calm and contented, but I'm not.) It's baffling how these drugs can include seemingly opposite side effects for different people - insomnia/sleepiness; anxiety/calm; apathy/motivation; sex/slump.
Also, I now understand what was meant by someone's description here (in relation to efexor withdrawal) of having a porcupine inside your skin, trying to get out. Ouch. Perfect description. I couldn't quite imagine this before; I think I would have preferred to remain ignorant. Same feeling on/in my skin as a mains-voltage electric shock I had once, though admittedly not quite such an overwhelmingly loud/bright/sharp/sense-mixing colour. I'm grateful it's not continuous, and presumably the fluoxetine is cushioning the fall somewhat.
Although the doctor didn't say a word about the potential for withdrawal problems before having me switch drugs without tapering (and when I quizzed him before starting the drug, said he didn't think it was ever a problem), I can't claim to have gone into it completely unawares - thanks largely to your well-informed postings about this, and those of others on this board. I was expecting some kind of withdrawal, but nothing quite like I got, especially since I was switching rather than going off medication altogether. I thought the massive mood instability I was having justified the risk of withdrawal hell; maybe it even did, as for the last days I was getting only violently negative effects from the drug and was losing any sense of control, and couldn't have functioned at work like that; however tapering could perhaps have solved both problems. Alarmingly though, I don't think I even brought up the subject at the appointment where I decided to quit Efexor! I have noticed in the past (with St John's Wort, believe it or not, and with selegiline) that once I decide the adverse effects of a medicine are outweighing the benefits, I can't get off it soon enough and don't consider the situation as rationally as I should.
I urge anyone reading this to watch for this tendency in yourself - overriding it could save you a lot of pain. Easy to say with hindsight. Anyway thanks for trying to make people consider their withdrawal with more care! At least I knew what was going on.
> WHEN WILL THIS INFORMATION GET WELL INTO THE HANDS OF ALL THE PRESCRIBING PHYSICIANS OUT THERE???!!!- When the manufacturer publishes a clear warning from the beginning, rather than only after years of pressure and in the face of lawsuits. (So, fat chance of that happening, then.) This would put the information in the little book of facts and figures which said prescribing physicial is using (and which seems to be all my doctor needs to glance through, sorry, _refer to for detailed information_ before throwing these drugs around) - rather than in some future edition, if they ever bother to update. Once everyone knows how a drug behaves, it's hard to learn 'em otherwise.
> to communicate your experience in a constructive way to the drug company, and to the governing medical body in your state, province, country, etc.To my doctor will be a start! I think he'll be horrified and I'm sure he will be wary of putting anyone else through it in future. Maybe I'll get him to fill out the infamous "yellow form" (UK adverse-reaction-reporting whatsit).
Warmly (in as much as I actually have positive emotions right now, here is one),
Nick.
Posted by KimRN73 on January 13, 2004, at 20:35:08
In reply to Re: Brain catching up with eyes (smilyangl), posted by robinbird on September 20, 2000, at 23:42:21
I get a weird sensation most days...about mid afternoon , a feeling of a "rush" in my head when i move it and like i cant quite focus on what im looking at, it takes a minute. I have been searching all over the internet to see what this could be. Do you all notice too, that if you close your eyes and squeeze them tighter , that you feel this so called "rush" in your head??? Let me know if any of you have this, ive been on Effexor for years. Also , this is strange, but when im up walking, i feel out of sorts and if i get one of those head rushes, i get a rush feeling in my R foot also. Strange huh? Please reply !!!!!!!!! Kim
Posted by laurenn on January 14, 2004, at 0:41:45
In reply to Re: Brain catching up with eyes (smilyangl), posted by KimRN73 on January 13, 2004, at 20:35:08
I have a similar problem . Three years off meds and counting almost. I have lost my peripheral vision due to ssri, and it is stemming from a disturbance brain/eye information. Does it feel like the brain isn't keeping up with things from the eyes ?
Posted by creeppedOutWendy on January 14, 2004, at 9:47:31
In reply to quitting effexor, posted by helena on February 1, 2001, at 10:33:10
It has been a week since I quit Effexor completely. I have been expereincing pretty much every symptoms posted by others. I was taking half dosage of what I was taking for three weeks before I quit it completely (My doctor recommended this). I'm taking it ok, but not sure how much more I can handle this. Does anyone know how long these withdrawal symptoms would last?
Thanks
Posted by ankh on January 14, 2004, at 14:14:34
In reply to How long would these withdrawal symtoms last?, posted by creeppedOutWendy on January 14, 2004, at 9:47:31
> It has been a week since I quit Effexor completely. I have been expereincing pretty much every symptoms posted by others. I was taking half dosage of what I was taking for three weeks before I quit it completely (My doctor recommended this). I'm taking it ok, but not sure how much more I can handle this. Does anyone know how long these withdrawal symptoms would last?
>
> Thanks
>OK, I can speak to this from personal experience -- I tried a different antidepressant every winter for years.
Effexor was by far the hardest to quit, and the one I most wanted to quit because of the bloody dreams and migraines (though I will always be grateful for having experienced migraine auras during that time -- somehow we can forget pain and remember beauty even when they happen together -- a good thing for me to have learned).
But about getting off this stuff:
Here's what finally worked for me -- taking 50 milligrams per week of Prozac for three months.
Yes, I mean that -- a tiny amount, once a week, and that held off the Effexor withdrawal.
I get winter depression (and recently diagnosed attention deficit, maybe from childhood concussions plus a recent one). So I was on the upswing through the withdrawal period anyhow --February, March and April.
My mood was going up anyhow, and it was time to quit the winter's drug, but just INCREDIBLY hard.
Fortunately my doctor had heard whispers about this in the hallways between presentations at psychiatric meetings -- this was before withdrawal was admitted to be a problem.
----> So, short answer -- consider asking for
----> a very, very, very small dose of Prozac,
----> which is a persistent drug; a fraction of
----> the usual daily dose taken once a week
----> got me off Effexor.Good luck.
Posted by creeppedOutWendy on January 14, 2004, at 14:20:08
In reply to Re: How long would these withdrawal symtoms last?, posted by ankh on January 14, 2004, at 14:14:34
Thank you for your suggestion. But if I don't do anything about it and just deal with the symptoms, would it ever go away. and how long would it take?
> > It has been a week since I quit Effexor completely. I have been expereincing pretty much every symptoms posted by others. I was taking half dosage of what I was taking for three weeks before I quit it completely (My doctor recommended this). I'm taking it ok, but not sure how much more I can handle this. Does anyone know how long these withdrawal symptoms would last?
> >
> > Thanks
> >
>
> OK, I can speak to this from personal experience -- I tried a different antidepressant every winter for years.
>
> Effexor was by far the hardest to quit, and the one I most wanted to quit because of the bloody dreams and migraines (though I will always be grateful for having experienced migraine auras during that time -- somehow we can forget pain and remember beauty even when they happen together -- a good thing for me to have learned).
>
> But about getting off this stuff:
>
> Here's what finally worked for me -- taking 50 milligrams per week of Prozac for three months.
>
> Yes, I mean that -- a tiny amount, once a week, and that held off the Effexor withdrawal.
>
> I get winter depression (and recently diagnosed attention deficit, maybe from childhood concussions plus a recent one). So I was on the upswing through the withdrawal period anyhow --February, March and April.
>
> My mood was going up anyhow, and it was time to quit the winter's drug, but just INCREDIBLY hard.
>
> Fortunately my doctor had heard whispers about this in the hallways between presentations at psychiatric meetings -- this was before withdrawal was admitted to be a problem.
>
> ----> So, short answer -- consider asking for
> ----> a very, very, very small dose of Prozac,
> ----> which is a persistent drug; a fraction of
> ----> the usual daily dose taken once a week
> ----> got me off Effexor.
>
> Good luck.
Posted by ankh on January 14, 2004, at 14:41:18
In reply to Re: How long would these withdrawal symtoms last?, posted by creeppedOutWendy on January 14, 2004, at 14:20:08
> Thank you for your suggestion. But if I ...
> just deal with the symptoms, would it ever
> go away? and how long would it take?I am not a doctor, so all I can offer is personal experience. I think I did the usual taper-down-to-zero, as you did, then went maybe six weeks with the tingles-and-willies before my doctor suggested the low-dose Prozac. Each week (for three months) I noticed the Effexor withdrawal reappear, and I took another tiny dose of Prozac.
Then one week, no tingles, no electric shocks, no silent invisible kicks in the head, I felt good.
Now for me, that's what getting to summertime is like anyhow, getting past winter depression.
So -- I can't even guess what your experience will be. For me, I had been through difficult withdrawal from Zoloft, and from Prozac itself, the past two years, and my doctor knew when I said the Effexor was a whole different kind of problem I wasn't kidding, and came up with that approach. He knew me, knew I'd done my darnedest to get through it without help.
"Your mileage may" -- will -- "vary" as they say.
Might be that continuing a thread here about the withdrawal day by day will attract other people whose stories may be helpful.
I don't know if our host comments on such matters, but there is no doubt a lot more to this withdrawal issue known now than when I was facing it.
It may be wise, if this is troubling you, at least to tell your doctor it's happening to you, eh? Could be it's a known problem by now!
Posted by KimRN73 on January 14, 2004, at 15:39:33
In reply to Am I the only one here that likes Effexor? Nope » Paco, posted by KimberlyDi on January 12, 2004, at 13:10:39
Can someone PLEASE describe these Brain "zaps" people keep referring to? I think that is what i get but id like to know what they entail if anyone can describe them???? THanks!!!!!
Kim
Posted by tetheredcat on January 14, 2004, at 21:08:44
In reply to How long would these withdrawal symtoms last?, posted by creeppedOutWendy on January 14, 2004, at 9:47:31
Its been 10 days now since ive had effexor.. though im still a bit tired, as if im getting over the flu or something.. i havent felt any brain zaps today!! at least not any strong enough to make themselves know or to create that much of an impact. another sife effect that is still lingering is that im forgetful. i was forgetful before-ive always said that my mind is like a seive. but this is like.. words on the tip of my tongue type of forgetfulness. however, though it is still a problem, i have noticed it getting better as well. i guess i lucked out on the side effects i was dealt.. i hope you get to feeling like you again soon.. cuz i gotta tell ya-it feels great.
> It has been a week since I quit Effexor completely. I have been expereincing pretty much every symptoms posted by others. I was taking half dosage of what I was taking for three weeks before I quit it completely (My doctor recommended this). I'm taking it ok, but not sure how much more I can handle this. Does anyone know how long these withdrawal symptoms would last?
>
> Thanks
>
Posted by tetheredcat on January 14, 2004, at 21:28:17
In reply to Re: Am I the only one here that likes Effexor? Nope, posted by KimRN73 on January 14, 2004, at 15:39:33
ok.. let me see.. this is how i described it to my computer geek bf: have you ever turned a monitor on? you know that zzzzzzungzzzzz sound it makes.. imagine that, inside your head.. and you feel the electric waves or vibrations inside your hard or on various surfaces of your head and face. he got what i meant.. lol i hope that helped at least a little.
> Can someone PLEASE describe these Brain "zaps" people keep referring to? I think that is what i get but id like to know what they entail if anyone can describe them???? THanks!!!!!
> Kim
Posted by Sad Panda on January 14, 2004, at 22:05:50
In reply to Am I the only one here that likes Effexor?, posted by Paco on January 11, 2004, at 19:48:27
> I just started looking at this board again after being away from it for a few months....
>
> I've been taking Effexor XR for about 10 months and it has been working just fine. No side effects, normal life, just the med I had hoped for.
>
> I avoided all meds for years after bad, actually terrible, experiences with Prozac, Zoloft, and Paxil. I thought nothing would work, and I assumed all meds would bring about these awful side effects. I didn't want to experience this again, so I avoided all meds and just lived with depression. When I couldn't take that life any longer I finally gave up and went to my doctor and tried Effexor XR. What a difference it has made.
>
> I saw my doc the other day and he suggested I taper down to 75 (I'm on 150) this spring or summer. I had a taste of the brain zaps recently when I took a dose a few hours late, but I swear a few days of that would be worth the comfortable life I've had this last year.
>
> Not sure where I'm going with this other than I've had good results with Effexor, have no side effects, and only had about four days of relatively light side effects while going on it. Some of these meds work for some of us, others don't. Just keep trying and find out what works for you.
>
I like it. Not looking forward to withdrawing from it, but I like it.
Posted by KimRN73 on January 14, 2004, at 22:59:38
In reply to Re: Am I the only one here that likes Effexor? Nope, posted by tetheredcat on January 14, 2004, at 21:28:17
thanks for writing a description! About Midday i get this "woosh" sensation in my head when im walking or if im turning my head to look at something, sometimes i even feel a 'woosh'in my right foot as well at the same time. Also, if i close my eyes and squeeze them tight , i can feel the "woosh" in my head,,,,,does this sound like the "zaps"??????? Please write back !
Kim
Posted by readingboy on January 14, 2004, at 23:35:36
In reply to Re: How long would these withdrawal symtoms last?, posted by tetheredcat on January 14, 2004, at 21:08:44
Wow. It's good to find a group to discuss these issues with. I couldn't imagine going what I went through without finding these posts.I've had a difficult time with my psychiatrist and decided to stop seeing him and find another. Previously, he prescribed Effexor XR and I've gradually gone to 150 mg. dosage, which did wonders for my depression and pain through my break up and divorce (a couple years ago). I stopped going to my psychiatrist recently, thinking that I'd find another soon enough. It hasn't happened and my prescription ran out yesterday morning.
Holy Mother of God! -- brain-flashes, dizziness, a slight nausea, and my skin began to feel electrified. I wasn't warned about these being side effects (not that I remember several years after being prescribed it), but knew it was Effexor withdrawal. It came on struck increasingly over a few hours. I didn't notice at first, the main is the dizziness and brain flashes, which happened when I'd move. When it really began to hit, I had to excuse myself from work. There wasn't any way I could be in public feeling like this.
I went home, found the phone number, asked my former psychiatrist for help telling him what I was experiencing, got a refill, and several hours later I'm recovered from the symptoms. It really scared me. I couldn't last a day of normal life with the intensity of the effects when they hit full force. I don't understand how I made it to the pharmacy and back (I walked since I couldn't trust myself driving).
I'm so glad to see others are working their way off with success. Really, finding this board helped immensely. I think with my divorce passed and things in my life beginning to look better, I'm probably ready to try life without Effexor XR. I will find another psychiatrist and ask to be taken off this medicine. To be fair, Effexor helped lift my depression and allowed me to live my life at a time when I was worried I couldn't. But now that things have improved, I don't want to stay on this drug forever, but the withdrawal symptoms are startlingly bad for me. If there was no way to get off but go through days of that, I would be taking Effexor for the rest of my life.
I now see that lowering the dosage gradually (it wasn't clear about the dosages and length of times though) along with taking mini-dosages of Prozac as needed is helping some work their way off it. I will definitely suggest this to my new psychiatrist if he or she is unaware of the process.
Thank you all for posting. And thanks Dr. Bob for putting this site up. You all have made a frightening episode much less scary in posting and explaining a lot of things.
-- readingboy
Posted by readingboy on January 14, 2004, at 23:41:50
In reply to Re: Am I the only one here that likes Effexor? Nope, posted by KimRN73 on January 14, 2004, at 23:00:22
Sounds like what I went through today. Are you mildly dizzy too? Does it only happen when you move (especially moving your head)? That's the dizziness I was experiencing.
The "zaps" I got were like wasabi rushes. You know, when you eat too much of that green stuff by accident at a Japanese restaurant. It's a light headed rush that feels electric and is over with in a flash.
Ugh. I couldn't take it. It was too intense. But then I ranted enough in my previous post in another thread.
In short, it sounds right.
-- readingboy
Go forward in thread:
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.