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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by ryedaddy on January 11, 2004, at 13:03:08
I am a 25-year-old student who was diagnosed with ADD when I was 15. I started taking dexedrine while in high school and immediately noticed it helped with focusing on tasks in the school and social environment. I stayed on the medication until until I was around 20 years old, then decided I would try and start my adult life without the hellp of the drug.
Without really conscioulsy realizing it, I began to use coffee in place of the dexedrine when faced with college papers or exams, and continued to regularly consume a cup of coffee in the morning daily, as well as one coke during lunch during the day---so that was the extent of daily usage.
This went on for five years and I never had an adverse reaction or problem sleeping or feeling anxious with the caffeine, until I decided to radically change my diet around this past November.
For a period of about five weeks I stopped all caffeine intake (coffee & soda) as well as alcohol (I am a frequent drinker)with some wierd idea I got in my head to cleanse my body. THis happened to coincide with the first real job I have ever had in my life (a freelancer for bar and restaurant review--very stressful for non-self starters..ie ADD)as well as a very rough realization that I was caught in a dysfunctional relationship with my girlfriend, with no real friends of my own, and I fell apart at the seams--couldn't concentrate on anything long enough to understand a conversation or read a sentence, which was the scariest thing I have ever had to deal with in my life.
The result was a sudden thought of suicide which came out of nowhere, followed by panic attacks as to why these feeling were coming on so strong, as I have never had any problems being down on myself ever in the past.
Trying to sum this up---- I am now in the middle of my fourth week on Wellbutrin XL, and while trouble sleeping has been a major side effect for me, I am begining to feel like myself again and thankful for that. I also take Busbar twice daily for anxiety, and this is a huge help as well.
The problem (and reason for this post)is that I still have major attention problems (probably even worse now than in my adolescence) and I think it has to do with the caffeine and alcohol balance that I messed with, which is still causing major problems.
Where caffeine always use to help me concentrate in the past, it now seems to have the opposite effect. When I have a coke in the middle of the day I either get a racing heartbeat and anxiety, or just a feeling like my brain is completely haywire, with a tendancy to forget things all togehter.
Also, when I was at my worst during the start and middle of the depression onset, caffeine would cause a sensation in the back of my head, along with feeling of extreme anxiety and restlessness.
I need to start a medication for my attention problems, but I am concerned it will have the same effect on me as the caffeine because they are both stimulants. I also am not sure if I should stop caffeine all together again. So I continue to consume it, even though the anxiety continues.
Has anyone else experienced anything like this? Will my body eventually be able to handle caffeine again? Is it a question of tolerance?
Posted by crazychickuk on January 11, 2004, at 15:25:50
In reply to Struggling with Caffeine Connection, posted by ryedaddy on January 11, 2004, at 13:03:08
I think that you are anxious about taking the caffiene again, and thats why you get panicky when you are drinking coke etc, i dont know really what to say to you, except try not to get to anxious when drinking caffien and you should be ok with it, sounds like a <i>"vicious cycle" you worry about drinking caffine, then you worry about not, then you worrying cus you just drank it.</i>
I dont know if anyone has experience with what reesearch has been going on with caffine, i have always thought of it all to be all in the head kind of thing, but maybe it does do something to the brain i dont know... try doing a search maybe on the interent to find out some info, But please dont worry about it to much, it is just anxiety, as your older you worry more....
Sorry not much help here, i am sure someone will post with some info as there are alot of brain's on the board, sadly i aint one of them..Take care
DonnaKeep us posted
Posted by Keith Talent on January 11, 2004, at 22:42:17
In reply to Re: Struggling with Caffeine Connection, posted by crazychickuk on January 11, 2004, at 15:25:50
I drink shitloads of espresso. I think I'm trying to subconsciously overcome the SSRI apathy/fatigue. I'm just about to see my psychiatrist and I'll ask about this and whether a real stimulant would be better.
Don't worry about drinking coffee.
Posted by dragonfly25 on January 11, 2004, at 23:04:10
In reply to Struggling with Caffeine Connection, posted by ryedaddy on January 11, 2004, at 13:03:08
did this caffeine reaction happen when you started wellbutrin by any chance?
i noticed in the last year that i was so sped up when ever i drank coffee, i am a big coffee drinker, and i started having racing heart etc when i drink coffee. this actually encouraged me to cut down drastically. i don't know if it is wellbutrin for me but i am now curious.
Posted by HappyGirl on January 11, 2004, at 23:29:32
In reply to Struggling with Caffeine Connection, posted by ryedaddy on January 11, 2004, at 13:03:08
Hi:
I wonder what dosage WB you've been on, ... in order to get a good effectiveness, you may need around 300 mg. WB XL. Wellbutrin is stimulant, for that reason, you have a problem of insomnia. You may ask your pdoc. for some sleeping-aid, something like a 'calming effective med.' like 'Trazodone that is also good for Anxiety you have. However, if you're happy about the current med. Buspar, then you'd better to stick with it, but in my knowledge, this med. has no 'sleeping-aid.'
In general, M.I. needs plenty of rest during the night, at least 8 hours' sleep is said 'preferable.' Also, in your admission as to 'caffein intake,' you need to stay away from those, because any caffein ingredient interfere med. effectiveness, ... decrease med. effect.
As to the disappoint on your med. combo. ... still not feeling well, ... however you need to give them more time to work on you properly. Just four-weeks' period is not enough time, ... probably, needs 6-8 weeks for med. combo. to get more effective. However, if there is still no improvement to see, you may need to talk to your pdoc. for another med. option, even seek for a second opinion from the other pdoc.
H.G.
Posted by Basia on January 12, 2004, at 8:34:27
In reply to Re: Struggling with Caffeine Connection, posted by HappyGirl on January 11, 2004, at 23:29:32
Hi,
I noticed exactly the same symptoms with caffeine whenever i tried ADs and i have the same problem now i'm on Lamictal.
Drink above one or two glasses of wine is impossible too. The hangovers are sent from hell and can include severe paranoia and deep depression. I stay away now - no more binges!
I think it may also have something to do with metabolism -mechanism of the liver.
And brain chemicals too, of course.
Has anyone else noticed much worse hangovers-partic. emotional and mental effects?
Hell, maybe I'm just getting too old at 30!Thanks and good luck,
Lyn
Posted by omegon on January 12, 2004, at 18:26:16
In reply to Re: Struggling with Caffeine Connection, posted by Basia on January 12, 2004, at 8:34:27
> I noticed exactly the same symptoms with caffeine whenever i tried ADs and i have the same problem now i'm on Lamictal.
> Drink above one or two glasses of wine is impossible too. The hangovers are sent from hell and can include severe paranoia and deep depression. I stay away now - no more binges!
> I think it may also have something to do with metabolism -mechanism of the liver.
> And brain chemicals too, of course.
> Has anyone else noticed much worse hangovers-partic. emotional and mental effects?For me:
On paroxetine - mood swings leading to alcohol craving; alcohol was more fun; decreased intoxication (drinking "like a fish"); bad hangovers emotionally (anxious and depressed) though no different physiologically. Not good. It made coffee more pleasant though - didn't make me as anxious as without the medication.
On efexor - alcohol craving mostly gone but can't stop drinking if I once start; hangovers much less severe both emotionally and physiologically, and could actually be pleasant with a warm glow (this scared the hell out of me as on a couple of occasions I found myself drinking 'cos it made me feel better next day); caffeine gave me a massive adrenaline rush for about 8 hours (not pleasant), and extreme irritability (I was on 225mg efexor, high enough to affect noradrenaline reuptake - I guess caffeine must mess with noradrenaline too. It certainly felt like it.) It even had an effect on chocolate, strangely enough, which without the drug is not noticeable different from plain sugar for me: gave me a stronger mood lift than the usual sugar rush, lasting much longer, though a bit irritable and edgy sometimes.
On fluoxetine - to be determined...
Posted by Jaynee on January 12, 2004, at 19:54:54
In reply to Re: Struggling with Caffeine Connection, posted by omegon on January 12, 2004, at 18:26:16
When I tried Effexor xr(75mg), I had a cup of coffee, which I don't hardly ever drink, because I don't like the way I feel on it, mostly jittery, low blood sugar feeling. Anyways when I tried coffee on Effexor, I thought I was going to die. I felt so weak and shaky, I was at work and had to go home. Was a very awful feeling.
I am now on Celexa and coffee doesn't affect me as bad as it did on Effexor. But coffee still makes me feel, "yucky", but the weird thing is I tried Espresso today, and "wow" what a good buzz. I didn't have that anxiety jittery "low blood sugar" feeling that I get with coffee, but a really good energy feeling. I think I may have found my magic formula. Celexa and Espresso.
What is different between Espresso and Coffee?
Posted by mtdew on January 12, 2004, at 20:11:17
In reply to Re: Struggling with Caffeine Connection, posted by Jaynee on January 12, 2004, at 19:54:54
The difference between espresso and coffee is like the difference between beer and shots. You'll get a subjectively different buzz when the drug enters your blood faster. I tended to prefer coffee because I could sip it and take my time, back when I could tolerate caffeine.
Posted by Dr. Bob on January 12, 2004, at 23:09:16
In reply to Re: Struggling with Caffeine Connection, posted by Keith Talent on January 11, 2004, at 22:42:17
> I drink sh[*]tloads of espresso.
Sorry to be such a prude, but please don't use language that could offend others:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by jane d on January 13, 2004, at 12:11:35
In reply to Re: Struggling with Caffeine Connection » ryedaddy, posted by dragonfly25 on January 11, 2004, at 23:04:10
> did this caffeine reaction happen when you started wellbutrin by any chance?
> i noticed in the last year that i was so sped up when ever i drank coffee, i am a big coffee drinker, and i started having racing heart etc when i drink coffee. this actually encouraged me to cut down drastically. i don't know if it is wellbutrin for me but i am now curious.I've always been a heavy coffee drinker and when I started Wellbutrin I had to cut back on the coffee or I'd be unable to sleep. Over time my coffee drinking crept by up.
Jane
Posted by Jaynee on January 13, 2004, at 20:32:33
In reply to Espresso » Jaynee, posted by mtdew on January 12, 2004, at 20:11:17
I actually did my homework on this and it said that espresso has 60% less caffeine than regular coffee.
Obviously, this is why I can tolerate espresso, even though I can't tolerate coffee. I have one espresso during the day and I am good to go. I am really happy about this new found energy drug.
Posted by Ilene on January 16, 2004, at 21:28:52
In reply to Struggling with Caffeine Connection, posted by ryedaddy on January 11, 2004, at 13:03:08
Yes! I used to drink at least one *large* cup of coffee every day, and sometimes as many as four. I love the stuff. I've been drinking it for over 30 years.
When my father was dying I began to have problems with caffeine. It went hand in hand with a major amplification in my level of anxiety. Not only did coffee make me jittery and intensely anxious, but also made me foggy and unfocused--the opposite of its previous, desirable effect. I can second the sensation of "a feeling like my brain is completely haywire, with a tendancy to forget things all togehter".
Strangely, there were times when I could drink it with no problem, but the usual consequences were so unpleasant that I quit cold turkey, then switched to decaf. Now I'm putting a few beans of regular coffee in the with the decaf. The plan is to gradually increase the proportion of caf to decaf. I'm also taking more Klonopin.
I've had similar sensations with other stimulants (Provigil, Dexedrine) that I used to take. The feelings were less intense than with caffeine.
I'm hoping that if I can get my anxiety under control I will once more be able to use stimulants.
Ilene
This is the end of the thread.
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