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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 6 of 6. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by sailor on December 23, 2003, at 9:05:28
MAOIs and supplements--anyone out there supplemnting their maoi meds with vitamins, minerals and/or specific pre-cursors (pea, l-tyrosine, tryptophan, etc.)? I'm thinking that if your brain is deficient of a particular amine, say dopamine (which of course could be the cause of the symptoms), and you enhance the uptake or consumption of the amine, are you not then risking depletion. I have tried
Wellbutrin 3 times with the same results--a very obvious mood improvement (anhedonia, apathy gone) within 2-3 days, then crash a few days later and a depression worse than before. I am 57, and I've read about "normal" curves of dopamine depletion as we age. I'm now on my first trial of Parnate, but stuck on 30mg/day for a month due to a conservative prescriber. So far only SEs of PM fatigue and nightime restlessness with some restless leg syndrome and insomnia. I'm reserving judgment till I get the dose up to 60mg or more based on other PB users' reports. Any feedback appreciated. Regards, Sailor
Posted by linkadge on December 23, 2003, at 10:54:57
In reply to MAOIs and supplements, posted by sailor on December 23, 2003, at 9:05:28
Some of the meds with stimulant action may be more liable to cause dopamine depletion. Parnate and wellbutrin in addition to enhancing avalable dopamine also cause dopamine to be released from the synapse. This *may* lead to depeleated levels. You may benefit from either a dopamine agonist like (used in parkinsons) where the drug molecue itself stimulates the receptor, regardless of your brqains own dopamine content.
Linkadge
Posted by sailor on December 23, 2003, at 12:18:32
In reply to Re: MAOIs and supplements, posted by linkadge on December 23, 2003, at 10:54:57
Linkadge--thanks for the response. I plan to do some more research on dopamine agonists. Is dopamine the only one of the amine trilogy (serotonin/norepinephrine/dopamine) that has a disease linked to its lack of production, i. e., Parkinson's? I don't really see much research based on declining levels of brain dopamine (well documented as an aging process) and the possible effects on mood disorders. For the past ten years, serotonin seems to be hogging the spotlight, but I suspect there are lots of clients put on SSRI's for whom serotonin is not the problem. I've tried almost all of them, and they all make me feel worse, yet I still find pdocs who want to "try again". Whose needs are they tring to meet? I plod on...depressed but persistent and hopeful. Sailor
Posted by linkadge on December 23, 2003, at 15:59:39
In reply to Re: MAOIs and supplements, posted by sailor on December 23, 2003, at 12:18:32
If you do think your depression is more dopaminerigcally dominated (feelings of apathy ahedonia, lack of interest, congitive disturbances, etc) Then first of all you are going to want to make your diet focus on the polyunsaturated fats as opposed to the saturated fats. There is a strong link between deficiancy of polyunsaturated fats and dopamine deficiancy.
http://biopsychiatry.com/unsatfatdop.htmlWith these you want to focus on olive oil and omega 3.
Secondly, drug permitting, you may want to supplement with precursor tyrosine, which can prevent stimulant depletion (may be contraindicated with parnate however - not sure)
The third thing you want to do is exercise aerobically frequenty, studies show it does wonders for the dopamine system, regeneration of movement neurons etc.
Aside from this there are dopmaine agonists, selegeline (which protects the dopaminergic system independant of its effects on MAOB), reputake inhibitors, and stimulants.
Testosertone levels also directly affect dopamine concentration, so you may want to get them checked.
Best of Luck.
P.S. THe only thing I can think of with serotonin is its effects on vasoconstriction and migrane, and norephineprine and cardiac problems.
Posted by sailor on December 23, 2003, at 17:16:39
In reply to Re: MAOIs and supplements, posted by linkadge on December 23, 2003, at 15:59:39
Thanks, linkadge. It had occurred to me to check on a possible tyrosine contraindication before using it. Thanks for the warning. Selegline is on my "planB, planC..." if the Parnate doesn't pan out. Unfortunately, aerobic workout doesn't seem to have any remarkable or lasting effect on my mood. (other posters have commented on this...whatever "endorphin rush" there might be for a normal person, doesn't always happen with some depressions). I do live a fairly active life--I live on a boat in a marina in FL and I'm working on boats and outdoors most of the time. However, with the anhedonia and apathy from this current depression I'm just forcing myself to "go through the motions" of my usual life and hustle as best I can for a remedy. I'll make some adjustments toward the omega 3's and polyunsaturated fats. Meanwhile, I'm on a Parnate trial, and that's my med focus for now. Thanks again for your reply. Regards. Sailor
Posted by linkadge on December 24, 2003, at 6:53:38
In reply to Re: MAOIs and supplements, posted by sailor on December 23, 2003, at 17:16:39
Sounds like a good plan.
Linkadge
This is the end of the thread.
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