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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by jay on December 7, 2003, at 14:21:43
I was just wondering if there are any Androgel (testosterone) users here, and if it works well even in 'gel' form.
Thanks,
Jay
Posted by Larry Hoover on December 7, 2003, at 18:26:19
In reply to Androgel...does it work?? Help please..., posted by jay on December 7, 2003, at 14:21:43
> I was just wondering if there are any Androgel (testosterone) users here, and if it works well even in 'gel' form.
>
> Thanks,
> JayIt works, but what you want it to do, and what it does do, may not be identical...it's hard to tell from your brief statement of interest, ya know?
There are pros and cons to each form of testosterone replacement therapy. One of the few negatives to Androgel is that it raises DHT (a testosterone metabolite, dihydrotestosterone) above normal levels, due to high concentrations of certain enzymes in the skin. The largest positive aspect to Androgel is that daily use provides a more consistent level of testosterone in the blood, when compared to any other delivery method.
I don't use it myself. I'm on testosterone cypionate injections.
Here's a review article:
www.medreviews.com/pdfs/articles/RIU_5suppl1_s22.pdf
Lar
Posted by stjames on December 7, 2003, at 23:57:53
In reply to Re: Androgel...does it work?? Help please... » jay, posted by Larry Hoover on December 7, 2003, at 18:26:19
Question for you Lar, the folks I know with
AIDS waisting that take T by injection tell me
the they get a drug "rush" right after the injection. I must avoid this for a number of
reasons. Do you have this effect ?
Posted by Alexs on December 8, 2003, at 5:59:42
In reply to Re: Androgel...does it work?? Help please..., posted by stjames on December 7, 2003, at 23:57:53
I've been using Androgel since it came to market. It brought my Testosterone levels back up to the normal range, I also felt more assertive and focused. It also helped with sex.
Posted by Larry Hoover on December 8, 2003, at 6:39:48
In reply to Re: Androgel...does it work?? Help please..., posted by stjames on December 7, 2003, at 23:57:53
> Question for you Lar, the folks I know with
> AIDS waisting that take T by injection tell me
> the they get a drug "rush" right after the injection. I must avoid this for a number of
> reasons. Do you have this effect ?Right after? As in immediate? No, I don't get that. After about one day, there is a huge increase in t levels, and I feel that.
See figure 1:
http://www.medreviews.com/pdfs/articles/RIU_5suppl1_s22.pdf
Posted by Civ on December 8, 2003, at 9:07:13
In reply to Re: Androgel...does it work?? Help please... » stjames, posted by Larry Hoover on December 8, 2003, at 6:39:48
So I'm guessing TRT is a viable option for depression...?
Posted by stjames on December 8, 2003, at 15:53:23
In reply to Re: Androgel...does it work?? Help please..., posted by Civ on December 8, 2003, at 9:07:13
> So I'm guessing TRT is a viable option for depression...?
>> So I'm guessing TRT is a viable option for depression...?
I do not think so, per se. In that you cannot give everyone TRT without demonstrating low T levels. There are 2-3 small studies that indicate
AD's may lower T levels. I have not seen a study
on depressives not on AD's and their T levels. That could demonstrate the other posibility, that low T levels are caused by depression.I do not see low T as the cause of depression.
I see depression and/or its treatment as causing
low T. TRT is only indicated if the levels are low, period. So this means TRT is an adjunct and not a first line treatment.
Posted by stjames on December 8, 2003, at 16:04:47
In reply to Re: Androgel...does it work?? Help please... » stjames, posted by Larry Hoover on December 8, 2003, at 6:39:48
After about one day, there is a huge increase in t levels, and I feel that.
Just checked, yes it is approx a day after.
Could you describe this feeling ?
Posted by Larry Hoover on December 8, 2003, at 18:08:39
In reply to Re: Androgel...does it work?? Help please..., posted by stjames on December 8, 2003, at 16:04:47
> After about one day, there is a huge increase in t levels, and I feel that.
>
> Just checked, yes it is approx a day after.
> Could you describe this feeling ?flushed, a bit wired, upset stomach, slight tension-type headache
Posted by RWF on December 10, 2003, at 18:05:42
In reply to Androgel...does it work?? Help please..., posted by jay on December 7, 2003, at 14:21:43
I used Androgel for almost two years. And believe it or not...that is one of the main reasons that I post on this board today.
I was put on Androgel, two 5mg patches a day, by my doctor. I was a normal 21 year old guy, and after about 18 months of treatment, I suddenly began pondering suicide, and crying alot for no reason.
I then had testosterone induced depression due to my hormone levels sky-rocketing.
Then they put me on Prozac (tried it for four days), Luvox (Tried it for one week), Paxil (One day), Celexa (One day), Lexapro (didn't even try to take it!), and Wellbutrin (Too much anger...7 days). Then they put me on Effexor XR and I took that for about six months! I thought there was hope, but then I became numb and my ability to cry became diminished and I couldn't hack it anymore.
The withdrawal nearly killed me, but I got through it thanks to the Ativan 1mg daily (Still to this day).
Now I feel like a neurotic sociopath today, and I walk around anxious, confused, and depressed because of medications.
I have suicidal and homicidal thoughts (Just thoughts!) daily, and they become so scary that I begin to have panic attacks.
The depersonalization sucks too. I have that just about everyday. Always feel like I am in a dream.
And every day feels like it races by, and that there is not enough time in the day for me to live my life the way I used too.
Good luck to you man, but don't over-do it. It will have consequences.
For those of you who want to e-mail me.
Good luck.
Posted by stjames on December 10, 2003, at 20:46:50
In reply to Re: Androgel...does it work?? Help please...Jay, posted by RWF on December 10, 2003, at 18:05:42
during you treatment, how often did you get lab work done ?
Posted by CraigD on December 10, 2003, at 21:33:46
In reply to Re: Androgel...does it work?? Help please...Jay, posted by stjames on December 10, 2003, at 20:46:50
So for what is TRT indicated? Depression? treatment of AD side effects?
Why would someone contemplate TRT?
Posted by stjames on December 11, 2003, at 2:05:37
In reply to Re: Androgel...does it work?? Help please...Jay, posted by CraigD on December 10, 2003, at 21:33:46
There are studies that indicate AD's lower T levels to the point that most doc's will supplement. It is also possible that depression itself does this. While the studies I have seen
have a small sample group, far more that 50% in the study groups have T levels so low that TRT
was indicated. Women also make a small amount of T, and studies indicate their levels of T are also effected.Given that depression effects all the basic drives (sleep, energy, sex, and others) depression seems to be an illness happening at a very root level.
This accounts for depressions ability to effect
many things and T is not the only part of endocrinology that has shown changes in depression.In any case, TRT is indicated when tests
indicate T is quite low. Sexual drive/interest
is directly tied to T, in men and women. This could answer why AD's kill ones sex life. Depression is known to do this also, but most seem to find AD's cause this to a greater degree than
depression itself. TRT seeks to resore T levels to
normal levels for the persons age.I have a pet theory for this. Evolutions time
scale is in thousands of years but the changes in society and science are coming at a quicker interval. So do not take this as an insult,
evolution is way behind, we are still hunter/gathers on that scale. This would not be the first time the body exerts control
over our sexual behavior. Prolactin is great
birth control. Depression would be a distinct
disadvantage to child rearing in 1003 AD, so perhaps the lowered T is natural selection at play.
Posted by Alexs on December 11, 2003, at 12:21:08
In reply to Re: Androgel...does it work?? Help please...Jay, posted by RWF on December 10, 2003, at 18:05:42
10mg of Androgel is the maximum dose, why did your doctor have you on such a high dose. The idea is to get testosterone back up to normal levels, maybe you were just using to high a dose?
Posted by Festus on December 11, 2003, at 21:39:34
In reply to Re: Androgel...does it work?? Help please...Jay, posted by Alexs on December 11, 2003, at 12:21:08
The average group of humans Rx,ed Test are male,45-60,whom,as a natural event brought upon normally by aging,are trying to bring their levels up after they can decline,sometimes drastically,within this age span.A man in his 20,s having low Test levels,is not very common.When given Test boosters or replacement in cases where none is indicated,can bring about some nasty effects.Several young males who,in trying to enhance muscle groth,that took "extra"Testosterone when their levels were normal for their age,have some pretty good "Horror Stories"to tell.Maybe a few may yet,in response to this thread.Low levels are mostly found in older men,and have pretty common symptoms that seem to follow very similar patterns(low sex drive,loss of strength,loss of muscle or lean mass,body fat gain,erection difficulty,depression,YES,DEPRESSION,and a general feeling of"weakness").Festus
This is the end of the thread.
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