![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Mr. Scott on December 1, 2003, at 21:25:19
Yikes! I've been at this so long now. I'm 29 and first noticed becoming depressed around age 15. Prior to that I was a wild animal, always in trouble and very precocious for my age (setting fires, collecting weapons, reading dirty magazines, and drinking booze by 6th grade). There were two competing diagnoses for me at the time. ADHD and bipolar disorder. I went with ADHD and I got tricyclics for many years and then Prozac. On he tricyclics I believe I was rapidly cycling, but not with manias that were totally off the wall. Mostly I was dysphoric but i thought I was just still depressed! After the Prozac I went kind of nuts with drugs and impulsiveness. I'm personally still not sure if it was hypomania or some of the dopamine shunting effects of SSRI's including but not limited to akathesia and that frontal lobotomy syndrome often seen in patients on SSRI's. Because now I can't even touch Lexapro or Zoloft or Prozac without severe muscle pains and stiffness and agitation not to mention the apathy and complacency. Anyways I've had my ups and downs post college particularly with drugs and alcohol. I have that kicked for today, but now I'm wondering what to do with my black and mercurial moods. My illness is very subtle. The most obvious symptom is depression (often severe), but tonight my doc said he believes I have rapid cycling. Why then is he continuing to give me Effexor. Shouldn't that make everything worse? Tonight he tells me to try the Effexor again with Cogentin, and if that doesn't work to try Serzone. I came home in a really bad bad mood (I mean suicidal as we discussed ECT)and I took .5mg klonopin, 300mg of trileptal (neither of which I am currently prescribed), and i feel better. Not Great mind you, but better.
What do I do? I've known this doc for over 2 years and he still can't give me the straight answer I'm looking for. He says he's fumbling in the dark just like I am. I need a caring type, but also someone I can have total confidence in. I've made 3 other contacts tonight reaching out to the supposed best hospitals in Chicago.
I feel so bad about having lost so much to my illness ranging from relationships to jobs. I have been nasty to my family at times and have worried them sick. I've been less than kind, but never outright evil. I'm not a bad guy, I just have a bad illness and its affected my ability to make the right choices at times.
I hope some of you can help lead me to peace in this world by sharing your experiences and thats all I'm asking for. I have a lot of knowledge I will try to give back to this community rather than just taking all the time. I don't want to hurt my mother by leaving this world earlier than her and I'm scared I might have to.
I feel like crying which I have not been able to do in over 10 years.
Posted by Lazarus on December 2, 2003, at 17:21:13
In reply to Help! Calling Rapid Cyclers and other Bipolars!, posted by Mr. Scott on December 1, 2003, at 21:25:19
From what you describe about your life it sounds as though you have Bipolar Disorder with Rapid Cycling.
The best medications for it are lithium and Lamictal. Atypical anti-psychotics are sometimes added when there is extreme rapid cycling.
Lazarus
Posted by Larry Hoover on December 3, 2003, at 7:56:40
In reply to Help! Calling Rapid Cyclers and other Bipolars!, posted by Mr. Scott on December 1, 2003, at 21:25:19
> Yikes! I've been at this so long now. I'm 29 and first noticed becoming depressed around age 15. Prior to that I was a wild animal, always in trouble and very precocious for my age (setting fires, collecting weapons, reading dirty magazines, and drinking booze by 6th grade). There were two competing diagnoses for me at the time. ADHD and bipolar disorder. I went with ADHD and I got tricyclics for many years and then Prozac. On he tricyclics I believe I was rapidly cycling, but not with manias that were totally off the wall. Mostly I was dysphoric but i thought I was just still depressed! After the Prozac I went kind of nuts with drugs and impulsiveness. I'm personally still not sure if it was hypomania or some of the dopamine shunting effects of SSRI's including but not limited to akathesia and that frontal lobotomy syndrome often seen in patients on SSRI's. Because now I can't even touch Lexapro or Zoloft or Prozac without severe muscle pains and stiffness and agitation not to mention the apathy and complacency. Anyways I've had my ups and downs post college particularly with drugs and alcohol. I have that kicked for today, but now I'm wondering what to do with my black and mercurial moods. My illness is very subtle. The most obvious symptom is depression (often severe), but tonight my doc said he believes I have rapid cycling. Why then is he continuing to give me Effexor. Shouldn't that make everything worse? Tonight he tells me to try the Effexor again with Cogentin, and if that doesn't work to try Serzone. I came home in a really bad bad mood (I mean suicidal as we discussed ECT)and I took .5mg klonopin, 300mg of trileptal (neither of which I am currently prescribed), and i feel better. Not Great mind you, but better.
I'm a slight bit confused....
In the above, you do not ever mention mood-stabiliziers, yet you have access to trileptal...
The way I conceive of things, there are often two distinct processes in treating bipolar individuals, mood stabilization, and mood adjustment. The latter is my concept, but the first would be via lithium, valproate, carbamazapine et al, whereas the second would likely involve antidepressants and/or atypical antipsychotics and/or benzodiazepines.
There is one mood stabilizer that is emerging as the dominant treatment for rapid-cycling bipolars, and those with mixed states and similar (I think that might be a valid descriptor for your black moods)....lamotrigine (Lamictal).
Lithium also has a very powerful effect on suicidal ideation. Fish oil does too.
> What do I do? I've known this doc for over 2 years and he still can't give me the straight answer I'm looking for. He says he's fumbling in the dark just like I am. I need a caring type, but also someone I can have total confidence in. I've made 3 other contacts tonight reaching out to the supposed best hospitals in Chicago.
There's nothing wrong with getting a second opinion, or third or fourth.....you deserve adequate care.
> I feel so bad about having lost so much to my illness ranging from relationships to jobs. I have been nasty to my family at times and have worried them sick. I've been less than kind, but never outright evil. I'm not a bad guy, I just have a bad illness and its affected my ability to make the right choices at times.
>
> I hope some of you can help lead me to peace in this world by sharing your experiences and thats all I'm asking for. I have a lot of knowledge I will try to give back to this community rather than just taking all the time. I don't want to hurt my mother by leaving this world earlier than her and I'm scared I might have to.
>
> I feel like crying which I have not been able to do in over 10 years.Crying is a good thing.
If you're scared, go to a hospital. Go inpatient. Get looked after.
I'm praying for you.
Lar
Posted by mags on December 3, 2003, at 10:07:26
In reply to Help! Calling Rapid Cyclers and other Bipolars!, posted by Mr. Scott on December 1, 2003, at 21:25:19
My daughter and I have had MANY of your symtoms..try Lamictal and /or Topamax...Lamictal is GREAT for the depressin side of BP but my daughter is starting to get some break through mania and is going to try Topamax for that....and yes it doesn't hurt to talk to other doctors...if you CAN cry, and sometimes we want to but can't, it will help, maybe see if you can see a therapist. I found it really helps to talk to someone totally impartial taht you don't have to "pretend" in front of...I find sometimes you even get that way with your doctor if you get too close so someone new is good...
hang in ther...
Maggie
Posted by Mr.Scott on December 3, 2003, at 15:07:24
In reply to Re: Help! Calling Rapid Cyclers and other Bipolars! » Mr. Scott, posted by Larry Hoover on December 3, 2003, at 7:56:40
Thanks for your kind words and input. Basically you would think I was a chronic depressive somewhere in between dysthymia and Major Depressive with Atypical features predominating along with panic snd anxiety. Then you toss in an Antidepressant without a stabilizer. Here it gets confusing as to whether I have side effects to the AD, something on the BP spectrum, or what I don't know. While the depression may improve, simultameously emerging are signs of mild mania or a mixed product and the end result is really not much prettier than depression. If the AD is really pushed you begin to see hypersexuality, flagrant drug and alcohol abuse, poor impulse control, intense anger, 'excessive mind noise', inappropriate hilarity, etc. This mixed affair passes and probably what is termed rapid cycling sets in (not sure) or a low grade continuous agited depression remains. Bear in mind this may be hardly recognizable to most people who discard my behavior as odd or unique but not severe enough to be truly pathological. I end up playing alchemist with the meds and not really ever getting anything accomplished on that front.
I was prescribed Trileptal years ago and never took it. Now I'm on it at 600mg total daily and climbing plus .5mg klonopin daily. I want to add lamictal in there. I'm calm for the most part as the Effexor slips out with minimal withdrawal, but I am clearly depressed. I have very little hope and am relying on the numbness from the stabiler/benzo to keep me from severe/profound depression. Interestingly enough I can by placing myself in situations with good people to talk to kind of raise myself from despair.
Do you think it's Lamictal time from here or a different AD with the stabilizer? My current doctor seems to think that for all the great research out there and heated debates between the Akiskals of the world, that trteating BP disorder today is essentially a crap shoot every time no matter what. And only trial and error can avail. What doesn't make sense is that the only stabilizers he has offered me have been Neurontin, Klonopin, and Gabitril (these are 4th tier!). This is odd, but it may be because he sees like what I described above...A state of chronic depression.
Anyways thanks for your help in this. It has taken me forever to write this because I'm low and I am going to print it out and give it to him when I see him next. Your help is one of the things thats keeping me wanting to move forwards and not standing still.
Posted by mags on December 3, 2003, at 20:50:11
In reply to Re: Help! Calling Rapid Cyclers and other Bipolars!, posted by Mr.Scott on December 3, 2003, at 15:07:24
>
>
> If the AD is really pushed you begin to see hypersexuality, flagrant drug and alcohol abuse, poor impulse control, intense anger, 'excessive mind noise', inappropriate hilarity, etc.Mr. Scott,
Those symptoms above are what made my doctor determine I was BPII...for years I just thought I was a little "wild".....I never had fulll blown mania.....mostly the above and major depression. I agree also with your doc. Treating BP is a bit of a crap shoot...especially the depression end of it..they seem to focus so much more on controlling the mania and in the process turn us into ghost of ourselves ( sometimes)...some of us do get lucky...we have to just persevere...I do think the Lamictal is worth a try....
Maggie
Posted by Mr. Scott on December 3, 2003, at 21:50:32
In reply to Re: Help! Calling Rapid Cyclers and other Bipolars!, posted by mags on December 3, 2003, at 20:50:11
Hi Mags,
Do you use anything other than Lamictal?
Thank You Dearly,
Scott
> > If the AD is really pushed you begin to see hypersexuality, flagrant drug and alcohol abuse, poor impulse control, intense anger, 'excessive mind noise', inappropriate hilarity, etc.
>
> Mr. Scott,
> Those symptoms above are what made my doctor determine I was BPII...for years I just thought I was a little "wild".....I never had fulll blown mania.....mostly the above and major depression. I agree also with your doc. Treating BP is a bit of a crap shoot...especially the depression end of it..they seem to focus so much more on controlling the mania and in the process turn us into ghost of ourselves ( sometimes)...some of us do get lucky...we have to just persevere...I do think the Lamictal is worth a try....
> Maggie
Posted by ramsea on December 4, 2003, at 6:09:15
In reply to Re: Help! Calling Rapid Cyclers and other Bipolars! » mags, posted by Mr. Scott on December 3, 2003, at 21:50:32
I'm sorry you're having such a hard time. Try to remember that these terrible states do pass. I've had full manic episodes as well as hypomanias and Mixed Episodes, which officially means meeting the required criteria for Mania and then also Major Depression at the same time. People often enough have some variation of mood states, however, whether officially recognized or not.
All that you listed sounds very familiar to me and I am dx as Bipolar 1. Actually in the UK they call it by the World Health Organization label of Bipolar Affective Disorder. I believe there is less concern over which number to place next to the word bipolar. But the same confusion has existed for way too long---bipolar symptoms can easily be misread as agitated depression, side effects of a drug, a bad temper or personality disorder.
You are well ahead of the game because you seem to know, if I'm reading correctly, that YES you are bipolar. And that means it is easy to be disturbed by anti-ds and also to have paradoxical reactions to many other meds. There's an element of the crap shoot about it all, I agree. I just wish it were A-to-B-to-C. The sheer array and variety of symptoms means it will always be complicated to treat a bipolar whose illness process is active.
Some people have long periods of wellness marked by a few clear-cut episodes of either Mania or depression, and it's somewhat easier to treat these people. But the vast majority of bipolars seem to have a wild toad ride that leads hither and tither through panic pastures,the wild woods of anxiety, the road to nowhere, past nightmare hall, and well--you get the picture.
If the meds you're on seem to be helping, obviously good. If you are still in a disturbed state, I agree with a previous poster--let the professionals help sort you out. Prozac sent me into an irritable mania and near death, plus a two month stay as an in-patient. It also led me to drink alcohol again after 8 years of nowt. The urge was compelling and weird, and had to do with how hyped up I was, in an unbearable state. But they misdiagnosed the mania/psychosis and treated me for schizo-affective, giving me both an AP and a TCA. Sigh.
Years and much toading about, I am feeling pretty stable on lithium. Benzos now disturb my balance, no more ADs ever, no sleeping pills. I take Seroquel in very low dose for sleep (12 mgs) and prn in tiny amounts (6 mgs--bear in mind that many people take 400-800 mgs a day). I am quite med sensitive, but I have discovered that a fair few are on-line who are the same. It is always something to consider, whether one is taking too little or too much of a certain drug. Sometimes when we get the amounts just right for us, a med we thought was out of the picture can turn out to be just right.
Neurontin can cause mixed symptoms in ***some*** people, so it's worth considering if it is upsetting you. (Maybe it's great--I'm just throwing out thoughts). The Klonopin may also cause impulse problems in some people, such as myself, and increase depression. Lithium has an antidepresant quality for some people, fortunately I am one, at the same time that it smoothes things out.
I think some people take a reduced amount of lithium with their Lamictal, which is also a low dose---the two at low dose together seem to help some people more than either one on its own. As you can see, I am just trying to wave the Hope Flag, to remind you that you might not have the right med mix yet. In time most of us find something that works for us. Please hang in there.
Posted by Larry Hoover on December 4, 2003, at 7:42:21
In reply to Re: Help! Calling Rapid Cyclers and other Bipolars!, posted by Mr.Scott on December 3, 2003, at 15:07:24
>
>
> Thanks for your kind words and input.You're welcome. I'm glad my words helped. I was very worried. I'm down to just worried now....
> Basically you would think I was a chronic depressive somewhere in between dysthymia and Major Depressive with Atypical features predominating along with panic snd anxiety.
I know diagnoses are simplifications.....little cubbyholes to slot people into.....but I are confused....not bipolar?
I have dysthymia and major depression (they are not mutually exclusive diagnoses; when I'm not majorly depressed, my mood set point is not euthymia, it is dysthymia). I have had episodes of agitation and panic and anxiety as well. We may be birds of a feather.
In any case, the disorder is best thought of as bipolar spectrum, regardless of where on the scale you tend to be found. When I get "humming" (analogous to somewhat hypomanic), I can be elated, or irritable as all get out. Yet, I never meet all the diagnostic criteria for true hypomania. That is a flaw in the diagnostic guidelines, IMHO. Don't let words for what you have distort your perception of what challenges you face, okay?
> Then you toss in an Antidepressant without a stabilizer. Here it gets confusing as to whether I have side effects to the AD, something on the BP spectrum, or what I don't know.
It's an interaction. You can't separate them.
> While the depression may improve, simultameously emerging are signs of mild mania or a mixed product and the end result is really not much prettier than depression. If the AD is really pushed you begin to see hypersexuality, flagrant drug and alcohol abuse, poor impulse control, intense anger, 'excessive mind noise', inappropriate hilarity, etc.
Been there. Got more than one t-shirt. We are birds of a feather....
> This mixed affair passes and probably what is termed rapid cycling sets in (not sure) or a low grade continuous agited depression remains.
If you can't tell, then I'd suggest the latter may be true. Rapid cycling suggests that there are markedly different but brief periods of mood fluctuation.
> Bear in mind this may be hardly recognizable to most people who discard my behavior as odd or unique but not severe enough to be truly pathological.
It doesn't matter what others think....you are intelligent and gifted with language....people do not read your mind.....they cannot know what's in there. I suspect you "present well", which is an idiom that implies that you cope so efficiently, notwithstanding the internal distress, that others would not know of the distress at all.....even your physicians....without explicit and overt descriptions of what's inside. Again, birds of a feather.
> I end up playing alchemist with the meds and not really ever getting anything accomplished on that front.
May I suggest nutritional supps?
> I was prescribed Trileptal years ago and never took it. Now I'm on it at 600mg total daily and climbing plus .5mg klonopin daily. I want to add lamictal in there. I'm calm for the most part as the Effexor slips out with minimal withdrawal, but I am clearly depressed. I have very little hope and am relying on the numbness from the stabiler/benzo to keep me from severe/profound depression.
Don't trivialize that benefit, 'kay? That's a good outcome, though falling below the ideal one.
> Interestingly enough I can by placing myself in situations with good people to talk to kind of raise myself from despair.
Excellent! Just as you are doing here, eh?
That insight is invaluable. As a coping strategy, it should be on par with meds for you.
> Do you think it's Lamictal time from here or a different AD with the stabilizer?
You can safely add Lamictal. I wouldn't add AD withdrawal to your current struggle..... get stable, then tweak.
> My current doctor seems to think that for all the great research out there and heated debates between the Akiskals of the world, that trteating BP disorder today is essentially a crap shoot every time no matter what. And only trial and error can avail.
Prevail? Yes, I agree. Absolutely. It's a black art, guided by intuition. That's all we've got.
> What doesn't make sense is that the only stabilizers he has offered me have been Neurontin, Klonopin, and Gabitril (these are 4th tier!). This is odd, but it may be because he sees like what I described above...A state of chronic depression.
It is bizarre. Lithium is used purely as an antidepressant, for example, if family history suggests it may be useful. Consider the range of expressions of mood within your first degree and second degree relatives.....
There probably is "pure depression" as a diagnostic and prognostic entity....but I do not believe that applies to you. Bipolar spectrum does, IMHO.
> Anyways thanks for your help in this. It has taken me forever to write this because I'm low and I am going to print it out and give it to him when I see him next. Your help is one of the things thats keeping me wanting to move forwards and not standing still.
That is good news. Keep in touch, 'kay?
Take care of you,
Lar
Posted by mags on December 4, 2003, at 8:19:51
In reply to Re: Help! Calling Rapid Cyclers and other Bipolars! » mags, posted by Mr. Scott on December 3, 2003, at 21:50:32
Hi Mr. Scott, Right now I am on Topamax monotherapy...I have been on Lamictal monotherapy plus I have been on it with Lithium, Depakote, Nardil, And Seroquel...plus many many more combos and mono therapy's, ECT...2- 3 month stays in hospital etc. My daughter is on Lamictal monotherapy. She is BPII.
The BP treatment is a long and arduous journey. I have learned over the years, I am 48, that the diagnosis is no longer important to me. The doctors change it constantly as you grow and change or the profession grows and changes. My Mother went from being diagnosed as being mildly depressed and given "mothers little helper", Valium, in the 50's, to being manic, to being psychotic, back to bi-polar etc....she eventually committed suicide...never really being given a proper diagnosis or proper help....
One can obsess over WHAT is wrong with me and what is it, instead of focusing on the symptoms and fixing those symptoms.Just my two cents.....but I have travelled down this road for a long time now with my Mom, myself and my 21 year old daughter. We have all suffered considerably.THe most important thing I can pass on to you if you wish to take it is try and treat your problems as they come and cherish the good days.....and NEVER stop pestering your doctor!
Maggie
Posted by cybercafe on December 4, 2003, at 15:28:54
In reply to Re: Help! Calling Rapid Cyclers and other Bipolars! » Mr.Scott, posted by Larry Hoover on December 4, 2003, at 7:42:21
> > My current doctor seems to think that for all the great research out there and heated debates between the Akiskals of the world, that trteating BP disorder today is essentially a crap shoot every time no matter what. And only trial and error can avail.
>
> Prevail? Yes, I agree. Absolutely. It's a black art, guided by intuition. That's all we've got.i dunno... i went to a really good doctor after being on valporate with poor results (like euphoria and depression several times a day) and he just said "you need some dopamine antagonism", asked me to choose between zyprexa, risperdal and seroquel, and everything was fine. i don't know how he knew this. it certainly doesn't seem to be published anywhere. and i was not believed to be psychotic at all.
Posted by Karen_kay on December 4, 2003, at 15:30:52
In reply to Re: Help! Calling Rapid Cyclers and other Bipolars!, posted by mags on December 4, 2003, at 8:19:51
Just wanted to add my story, so you may gain a bit of insight. I am Bipolar I, which means I have manic episodes. But, the last few years I have struggled more with depression. I was on Depakote, Lithium (2 different occassions), Lamictal, and finally Topamax. Topamax is the drug that finally worked the best for me. I'm no longer depressed and haven't had any symptoms of mania either. But, I've only been on it for about 7 months. I was severly depressed when I started it, however. One note, Topamax isn't as effective in treating mania, according to my Pdoc. Also, Neurontin is Not effective at all in treatign Bipolar disorder! There was a bit of a scam involved with the drug company trying to do off-label marketing.. You may want to research that. I took Neurontin for anxiety for quite a while with great results, but, my Pdoc recently (just yesterday in fact) did inform me that it is not labeled and has been proven to not be effective in treating Bipolar disorder. I'm not sure if I read your post correctly or not, but I thought I read that you were checking into taking it as a mood stabilizer?? I may be wrong? It worked great for me for anxiety and I found it to be nonaddictive, but made me kinda dumb :) The Topamax also made me a little slow for a few months but it did go away. The problem with finding a mood stabilizer is finding the one that suits you best. It can be a long process. But, once you do find the one that "clicks" it truly is wonderful!! I wish you the best of luck. But, remember there are side effects with all of them. Sometimes you just have to wait it out. I did and I've never been in a better mood!!
Good luck :) Karen
Posted by pixygoth on December 5, 2003, at 8:53:54
In reply to Re: Help! Calling Rapid Cyclers and other Bipolars!, posted by Karen_kay on December 4, 2003, at 15:30:52
Hi... small contribution - I agree with virtually all of the above.. and I identify with you a lot. Effexor stopped helping me, so I stopped, the doc decided BPII was maybe it, and having taken Lamictal for two weeks I'm already feeling remarkably better.
A little bit too "up" at times, but not extreme or angry or...etc.
It's definitely worth a try.
S
Posted by metalflipflop on December 5, 2003, at 9:20:48
In reply to Re: Help! Calling Rapid Cyclers and other Bipolars!, posted by pixygoth on December 5, 2003, at 8:53:54
my two cents are that lamictal seems to be worth it, for me anyway. zoloft made me cycle much more, but i didn't want to lose it b/c the depression was so profound, so i held on while slowly upping lamictal. i'm bumping up to 100mg today, and have already (in 3 weeks) begun to feel some good mood effects and none of the agitated highs. i take neurontin for occasional anxiety, such as when i first up the lamictal.
good luck.
Posted by Mr.Scott on December 5, 2003, at 17:44:17
In reply to Re: Help! Calling Rapid Cyclers and other Bipolars!, posted by metalflipflop on December 5, 2003, at 9:20:48
Thank You all for posting!
I am currently taking 900mg of Trileptal and 2.5mg of Lexapro. I finally ditched the last 37.5 Effexor this last Tuesday in exchange for a tiny dose of Lexapro. I feel good but not too good, but I think based on your posts it sounds wise to consider Lamictal as Lex will probably poop or cause hypo/cycling. In fact I called my doc and told him I'd like to try it come Monday when I see him.
I also take .5mg of Klonopin daily for residual anxiety and sleep. I have had problems with anxiety since I was 15 years old. I feel uncomfortable taking benzo's unless I absolutely need to. Especially since my substance abuse past is a place I NEVER WANT TO RETURN TO (alcohol and cocaine). Also now that some of you and others have told me that Klonopin 1) may contribute to bipolar depression, and 2) that intradose fluctuating blood levels may worsen rapid cycling. I drink way too much coffee and maybe if I could cut down on some of that I wouldn't need the klonopin with good stabilizers in its place.
Any additional thoughts on the Klonopin in BPII??? I still hold out hope that one day I will be very high functioning. I've ditched the drugs and alcohol, and if I could get this mood disorder together I'd be so grateful.
Thank You for making my utter despair a great deal lighter of a load. It's so important to have a sense of community when these poorly understood disorders can make you feel so isolated at times.
Thank you,
Scott
Posted by stavros on December 6, 2003, at 15:40:25
In reply to Re: Help! Calling Rapid Cyclers and other Bipolars!, posted by pixygoth on December 5, 2003, at 8:53:54
pixygoth,
I am right thre with you on the Lamictal. This is my 3rd time taking it and this is the only time i can remember being on it as monotherapy. even at 25 mgs i a way activated, creative, going out and flying my flag? I have not really been able to get the tightness to stop in my face and body no matter what I am on as long as i am conscious however usually just being to tight would get me depressed. This thing on Lamictal is that it's almost like being on speed or ex. I so want to relax my aching head but the motor inside with Lamictal keeps me revved up? I feel ya
s
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