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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 20 of 20. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by glenn on December 1, 2003, at 11:46:23
Isaw a post recently about the surgical removal of the amygdala, a bit extreme perhaps but the more I read about it the more it seems to be involved in some of our difficulties, I certainly reckon it is key to mine but what to do about it!
Then in one of todays papers I read that the anti tuberculosis drug D-cycloserine has been used to calm down the amygdala and in combination with aversion therapy has been a great sucess in treating phobias, anxiety and fear!
Any thoughts again??Glenn
Posted by stjames on December 1, 2003, at 12:47:56
In reply to Hitting that naughty Amygdala, posted by glenn on December 1, 2003, at 11:46:23
Isaw a post recently about the surgical removal of the amygdala.
Well, you can't. That would cause death.
Posted by glenn on December 1, 2003, at 14:05:38
In reply to Re: Hitting that naughty Amygdala, posted by stjames on December 1, 2003, at 12:47:56
Yes I am sure you are right, but that is hardly the point of the post I think!
You feeling a little irritable today? you and i have been here before I think?!Glenn
Posted by Bananafish on December 1, 2003, at 14:11:49
In reply to Hitting that naughty Amygdala, posted by glenn on December 1, 2003, at 11:46:23
Interesting topic. I read a series of article on Mass General Hospital/McLean Hospital shared webspace on modern psychosurgery. One such operation involved placing a lesion in the amygdala using a cryo-probe. I believe it was for intractable OCD and anxiety states. Never heard of using a drug to attain a similar result, but it sounds theoretically feasible. I'll see if I can can't find a link to those articles for you.
Posted by stjames on December 1, 2003, at 16:22:48
In reply to Re: Hitting that naughty Amygdala, posted by glenn on December 1, 2003, at 14:05:38
> Yes I am sure you are right, but that is hardly the point of the post I think!
> You feeling a little irritable today? you and i have been here before I think?!
>
> GlennTalking about surgery on the Amygdala is a bit "pie in the sky" as we only have a bit of knowlage on how it and the brain works.
Posted by glenn on December 1, 2003, at 17:48:04
In reply to Re: Hitting that naughty Amygdala, posted by stjames on December 1, 2003, at 16:22:48
Just to clarify, the point of the post is D-cycloserine, not brain surgery, that was merely there as a reference point to a previous poster who had mentioned having the amygdala surgically removed, presumably as a joke!
Glenn
Posted by stjames on December 1, 2003, at 18:22:07
In reply to Re: Hitting that naughty Amygdala, posted by glenn on December 1, 2003, at 17:48:04
> Just to clarify, the point of the post is D-cycloserine, not brain surgery, that was merely there as a reference point to a previous poster who had mentioned having the amygdala surgically removed, presumably as a joke!
>
> GlennI don't think it is a question of controling the
Amygdala. Given that we know next to nothing about brain science, seaking to control something we in no way understand to doomed to failure.
Posted by JonW on December 1, 2003, at 18:49:15
In reply to Re: Hitting that naughty Amygdala, posted by stjames on December 1, 2003, at 18:22:07
> I don't think it is a question of controling the
> Amygdala. Given that we know next to nothing about brain science, seaking to control something we in no way understand to doomed to failure.Excellent point, but where would we be if we didn't try??? Novel ideas carry the chance to become life saving innovations.
Jon :)
Posted by stjames on December 1, 2003, at 18:56:50
In reply to Re: Hitting that naughty Amygdala » stjames, posted by JonW on December 1, 2003, at 18:49:15
> > I don't think it is a question of controling the
> > Amygdala. Given that we know next to nothing about brain science, seaking to control something we in no way understand to doomed to failure.
>
> Excellent point, but where would we be if we didn't try??? Novel ideas carry the chance to become life saving innovations.
>
> Jon :)
I don't think that messing with brain structure
"just because" we think it might work is a good idea. Do we even know that the Amygdala is root of these problems ? I suspect it is not the root but a step along the way.Anyway, it matters not. Science is not where near doing this, so there is no point to hashing it out. It is not going to happen.
Posted by JonW on December 1, 2003, at 21:02:31
In reply to Re: Hitting that naughty Amygdala, posted by stjames on December 1, 2003, at 18:56:50
> Anyway, it matters not. Science is not where near doing this, so there is no point to hashing it out. It is not going to happen.
I wonder if it is even possible. I mean, it may be necessary to look at the brain from outside of itself to truly understand it. And my brain is incapable of comprehending what exactly it would mean to do that. OK, I have a headache now...
Jon :)
Posted by stjames on December 1, 2003, at 21:21:48
In reply to Re: Hitting that naughty Amygdala » stjames, posted by JonW on December 1, 2003, at 21:02:31
> I wonder if it is even possible. I mean, it may be necessary to look at the brain from outside of itself to truly understand it. And my brain is incapable of comprehending what exactly it would mean to do that. OK, I have a headache now...
>
> Jon :)If we can get quantum theory, the brain is understandable. Life is just a highly organized
set of biochemical/bioelectrical reactions. Very understandable.
Posted by glenn on December 2, 2003, at 12:18:40
In reply to Re: Hitting that naughty Amygdala, posted by stjames on December 1, 2003, at 21:21:48
It doesn't seem to matter what I post, you seem to come down on it! after all D-cycloserine is here now!!
Posted by KimberlyDi on December 2, 2003, at 16:54:57
In reply to Re: Hitting that naughty Amygdala, posted by stjames on December 1, 2003, at 21:21:48
oh sure, just like the butterfly and the weather.. or talking about time travel and going back to make a different life choice and see what happens. Paradigm shifts and chaos theory.
How many drugs are based upon cause and effect and not the reasons why?
KDi
>
> > I wonder if it is even possible. I mean, it may be necessary to look at the brain from outside of itself to truly understand it. And my brain is incapable of comprehending what exactly it would mean to do that. OK, I have a headache now...
> >
> > Jon :)
>
> If we can get quantum theory, the brain is understandable. Life is just a highly organized
> set of biochemical/bioelectrical reactions. Very understandable.
>
>
Posted by tensor on December 2, 2003, at 17:11:03
In reply to Re: Hitting that naughty Amygdala, posted by stjames on December 1, 2003, at 21:21:48
> If we can get quantum theory, the brain is understandable. Life is just a highly organized
> set of biochemical/bioelectrical reactions. Very understandable.IF we got the quantum theory, then our brain has become more complex, hence, harder to understand. Do you see the paradox? The more complex things we can understand the more complex the brain itself become. I think we will never be able to understand the brain, that is, the brain can not understand the brain.
The quantum theory is far from flawless. But it works under conditions that are not too extreme, but so does the classical physics. We really don't know that much.
/tensor
Posted by stjames on December 2, 2003, at 18:15:26
In reply to Re: Hitting that naughty Amygdala » stjames, posted by tensor on December 2, 2003, at 17:11:03
> IF we got the quantum theory, then our brain has become more complex, hence, harder to understand. Do you see the paradox?I see no paradox. We just are not there yet.
Posted by stjames on December 2, 2003, at 18:16:20
In reply to Re: Hitting that naughty Amygdala » stjames, posted by KimberlyDi on December 2, 2003, at 16:54:57
> oh sure, just like the butterfly and the weather.. or talking about time travel and going back to make a different life choice and see what happens. Paradigm shifts and chaos theory.
>
> How many drugs are based upon cause and effect and not the reasons why?
>
>Sorry, I am not getting your point.
Posted by Neil Slade on December 3, 2003, at 0:38:25
In reply to Re: Hitting that naughty Amygdala, posted by stjames on December 2, 2003, at 18:16:20
Just a note to those not aware-- my work of the
past twenty years is educational in nature, and
comes out of the 35 year study by renegade researcher
T.D. Lingo who directed the fondly named 250 acre Dormant Brain Research
and Development Laboratory from 1957-1993 40
miles west of
Denver, Colorado.My primary focus is teaching people how to
self-control emotions, as well as modifying and measurably
increasing
creativity and intelligence. Of primary importance is how the amygdala relates
to various modes of brain processes- directly and
indirectly- and not merely to the oft mentioned
fear and fight or flight response.Please also note my previous post on this board at
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20031202/msgs/286106.htmlYou may read about Lingo's work in depth at
http://www.neilslade.com/art/Brain/brainrev1.htmlIt's a fun site, but if you look hard enough you'll
find the scientic references regarding amygdala functions
http://www.neilslade.com/Papers/Science.html
There's a lot one can do to effect the amygdala in one's brain
without frying it, removing it, or doping it up.Neil
Posted by glenn on December 3, 2003, at 4:08:56
In reply to Amygdala Control- Hitting that naughty Amygdala, posted by Neil Slade on December 3, 2003, at 0:38:25
Thankyou!! a positive contribution, new knowledge and something to have a look at, I had begun to wish I had never bothered posting as the post seems to have turned into some strange metaphysical debate which I am sure is fascinating to those who choose to enter it but not much use to those of us who want to get even better!
Thankyou againGlenn
Posted by KimberlyDi on December 3, 2003, at 8:39:13
In reply to Re: Hitting that naughty Amygdala, posted by stjames on December 2, 2003, at 18:16:20
>I don't think that messing with brain structure
"just because" we think it might work is a good idea. Do we even know that the Amygdala is root of these problems ? I suspect it is not the root but a step along the way.Anyway, it matters not. Science is not where near doing this, so there is no point to hashing it out. It is not going to happen."<
Many anti-depressants are not understood. The doctor's don't know how they work, they have theories, but that's all. Doctors won't wait to understand the Amygdala... if a type of drug causes a good reaction with it, with minimal side effects, it will happen.
Understanding the weather and other theories... there's too many variables to predict and/or completely understand.
Sorry for the earlier post. My thought process makes perfect sense to me... LOL
KDi in TX
Posted by pablo1 on July 21, 2004, at 22:23:51
In reply to Amygdala Control- Hitting that naughty Amygdala, posted by Neil Slade on December 3, 2003, at 0:38:25
Just reading about this now...
http://members.aol.com/nonverbal2/amygdala.htm
"After surgical removal of the amygdala, growls, screams, angry voices, and other negative signs may lose their meaning and become incomprehensible"> Just a note to those not aware-- my work of the
> past twenty years is educational in nature, and
> comes out of the 35 year study by renegade researcher
> T.D. Lingo who directed the fondly named 250 acre Dormant Brain Research
> and Development Laboratory from 1957-1993 40
> miles west of
> Denver, Colorado.
>
> My primary focus is teaching people how to
> self-control emotions, as well as modifying and measurably
> increasing
> creativity and intelligence. Of primary importance is how the amygdala relates
> to various modes of brain processes- directly and
> indirectly- and not merely to the oft mentioned
> fear and fight or flight response.
>
> Please also note my previous post on this board at
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20031202/msgs/286106.html
>
> You may read about Lingo's work in depth at
> http://www.neilslade.com/art/Brain/brainrev1.html
>
> It's a fun site, but if you look hard enough you'll
> find the scientic references regarding amygdala functions
> http://www.neilslade.com/Papers/Science.html
>
>
> There's a lot one can do to effect the amygdala in one's brain
> without frying it, removing it, or doping it up.
>
> Neil
This is the end of the thread.
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