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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by maxx44 on November 21, 2003, at 17:49:28
In reply to Re: Xanax - Lexapro..Is it anxiety or depression???, posted by awatts on November 21, 2003, at 16:03:14
very wise to keep a tight reign on xanax or any tranq---'major or minor', sounds like you've already been burned once. i'm curious on your saying 'i think a lot'. is this job-related, like web design, teaching, whatever. or is it the annoying stuff seen in depression characterized by 'rumination', where you just keep going over past events, largely thinking about yourself? i do that, and not surprisingly, it doesn't result in productive activity---just chews-up time, while making you more anxious or down. my whole family, relatives, have one form of affective problem or another---they are also very narcisistic---which i seem to have learned. many view this as no big deal, but it is. 'over-fixation' on self, obviously, may lead to a kind of pathological solitude. it's not the same as 'loving yourself'. you end up alone. on the other hand, if you're speaking of the common depressive 'rumination', that deal usually goes away when depression lifts.---perhaps you could elaborate? best wishes
Posted by dms777smd on November 21, 2003, at 19:19:30
In reply to Re: Xanax Withdrawal , posted by maxx44 on November 20, 2003, at 23:02:20
> you'll note i was writing of librium and 'protracted withdrawal syndrome'---it doesn't hit everyone. it seems dose and time of use related. also, we're all so different, 'blanket' statements don't always apply. PWS is considered possibly age related--but i've a 90+ year-old neighbor who just quit a life of smoking and moderate ativan use and didn't notice a thing. i think that's rare. i had stopped moderate drinking with the librium, but for Me librium withdrawal was characterized by violent urges, whereas previous xanax withdrawal, years before and allegedly more problematic due to short half-life just gave me insomnia. i don't have a major drinking history--can take it or leave it--for me the obvious fact was total similarity with previous symptoms of librium withdrawal, which is consistent with PWS---these episodes are known to decrease with time---dr. heather ashton, on the net, would probably term your panic PWS and advise riding it out, as the episodes diminish with time. i know panic--when you're in it you think you're dying and will grab any way out, but it sounds to me like you've got it beat. best wishes
Yea,I think I do pretty much have it beat.And it makes me feel even better hearing you say the same thing.Thanks.But it does get pretty bad sometimes and I know I just have to ride it out.All those years of drinking really screwed up my brain and I know all of that isn't going to change overnight.Also,I read a lot of what Dr. Ashton wrote lastnight for the first time and she really knows what she's talking about.And benzos are not very far off from alcohol.
Posted by maxx44 on November 21, 2003, at 19:55:42
In reply to Re: Xanax Withdrawal » dms777smd, posted by dms777smd on November 20, 2003, at 19:44:03
hey! no fair---right in my post i advised checking dr. ashton---then below you say You discovered it. naughty, naughty---but seriously folks, i'm just glad you got to her site, and posted that link, saves people time, and they're more likely to hit a link than log-off for a net search--thanks, i'm remiss on including links---i'll work on it. it may interest you that dr. ashton was instrumental in current uk law, which carries stiff legal consequences, with few exceptions, for scripting any benzo for more than 28 days. how this may stop current 'recreational-buy xanax on the street' users, or dr.-hopping, i don't know. but it will curtail and educate ethical drs. from inadvertantly addicting honest, but benzo-naive clients. when PWS hit me, i had never used a computer. i feel the data on dr. ashton's site would have resulted in me 'riding-it-out'---but my ignorance and fear that thoughts could become anti-social action just plain scared me back. so you're in a battle, but now you know the advesary's 'army-of-weapon'---it's insidious and somehow fixes on our greatest fears---but as any good general knows, battles are won by 'intelligence' more than which side has more canons. as DEVO said in song---'it's not too late, to whip it, whip it good'. best
Posted by maxx44 on November 21, 2003, at 21:36:49
In reply to Re: Xanax Withdrawal, posted by AmigoMarko on November 14, 2003, at 0:02:44
a major error i made in the 70's, when drs. were still terming cocaine a 'pot-like' recreational drug, was not understanding how different each person is. i tried it for a month and just quit. no problems. my ex tried a line just once---the next day she seemed to have the flu. she asked if there was any of 'that stuff' left. there was residue on the paper it came in. she sniffed it and Bam! 'flu cured'. i'd never seen such. but i knew what it meant. we were very different, something i had never considered. or seen. i'm not you, but in the 80's klonopin was the darling of shrinks using benzos on bipolars, mostly due to drug co. hype and its longer half-life vs. xanax. i've been on 4 benzos and my experience is a benzo is a benzo---when you run out. which is to be avoided---they all require a long taper in long-term daily users. the half-life of xanax is hours vs. days for klonopin. so it's easy to see one may consider klonopin less addictive, as with librium or valium, which also have long half-lives, unlike xanax. you don't get whacked for days, during which time you feel fine---then look out. withdrawal onset is swift and intense. this is not erudite data from someone who's never been there, nor is it relevant to only me---i've seen many klonopin users, as my second wife, go thru this. it depressed her, as me, and every time she just quit i had to take her to the nearest er, where i heard the drs. tell her the same thing--'see there, you're bipolar and need this as a diabetic needs insulin.' bulldung. this woman was the secretary of the screen writer's guild in west LA, and a screenwriter, brilliant. when she had one of her scripts go into production the stress was high, and she was scripted klonopin.
that finished her. klonopin is known to precipitate depression in some. your other meds may be masking this, or you're lucky. for you klonopin may be less addictive---but now, it's generally seen as perhaps the most addictive for the average benzo user. we're all different, but i'd talk this over with my dr. best wishes
Posted by femlite on November 21, 2003, at 22:02:17
In reply to Re: Xanax - Lexapro..Is it anxiety or depression??? » maxx44, posted by jewelzz on November 21, 2003, at 14:35:34
I waited 20 years thinking that way. Its been a wild and hard life. Would I do it that way again? no answer to that...
Yes there is someone, you. You can slip your self something and if you dont like it You can stop
Good Luck
Posted by maxx44 on November 22, 2003, at 0:16:11
In reply to Re: Xanax - Lexapro..Is it anxiety or depression??? » jewelzz, posted by femlite on November 21, 2003, at 22:02:17
kinda cryptic response---did you mean you 'waited' 20 years, or 'wasted' 20? as for depression and anxiety, they often go together. the reason i asked about 'thinking' was you placed it in BOLD print. perhaps my response didn't show up. i've noticed a few things on this board---you don't always see the entire thread unless you click on 'thread' at the top. yeah, it's unfortunate some of us get 'the wild ride', but we do. hard to say if lexapro caused panic, but true coincidences are rare. best regards
Posted by Mariposa on November 22, 2003, at 21:00:29
In reply to Re: Xanax - Lexapro..Is it anxiety or depression??? » maxx44, posted by jewelzz on November 21, 2003, at 14:35:34
> Thanks for info...
> I have had problems with ulcer since age of 6.. Guess I was a very tense little person back then too!
> Sucks, cuz anxiety, OCD, and Bipolar run in my mother's side of the family, all first blood line relatives!
> I can deal with anxiety attacks, just can't deal with being bitchy all the time otherwise.. have stayed away from meds for a long time, but need to do something.
> I am so in tune with my body, it's not a good thing. Wish someone could slip me pills to see how I react without knowing I took it.
> Anyone, comments?
> Anyone else have my same experience? Anxiety attack from anti-depressant?
> Thanks for any input!I have been on Lexapro since Feb. w/good results (dx - PMDD and depression). I have never suffered panic attacks befor, but I did experience several in 4th week. At the time I became very upset and was ready to quit, but encouragement from others here helped me through it. I believe it was a side effect of Lex, have not had any more since.
Best of luck!~~~8|8
Posted by maxx44 on November 22, 2003, at 22:11:23
In reply to Re: Xanax - Lexapro..Is it anxiety or depression??? » jewelzz, posted by Mariposa on November 22, 2003, at 21:00:29
evidence keeps piling up that the ssris may be addictive and lead to some scary events i prefer not to mention. the NAMI site is good on that. if you're bitchy, and 'down' sometimes, i'd sure put up with that vs. pills. unless you truly feel yourself a danger to you or others, be bitchy. i had an explosive temper, if provoked---but making lots of money was easy. a dr. said take lithium---no more temper and no more money---i feel my biz ability was linked to my temper---so bitch away. at least it's still you. best wishes
Posted by Mariposa on November 22, 2003, at 23:38:46
In reply to Re: Xanax - Lexapro..Is it anxiety or depression???, posted by maxx44 on November 22, 2003, at 22:11:23
Just curious, are you male or female?~~~8|8
Posted by maxx44 on November 22, 2003, at 23:52:49
In reply to Re: Xanax - Lexapro..Is it anxiety or depression??? » maxx44, posted by Mariposa on November 22, 2003, at 23:38:46
father of 9---and still alive. regarding the different effects i've seen, sex is a factor that drs. haven't caught up to, as it were.
Posted by Mariposa on November 23, 2003, at 0:01:00
In reply to Re: Xanax - Lexapro..Is it anxiety or depression???, posted by maxx44 on November 22, 2003, at 23:52:49
> father of 9---and still alive. regarding the different effects i've seen, sex is a factor that drs. haven't caught up to, as it were.
I can't just be bitchy as it were...if I had continued unmedicated I am sure I would have been fired from my job (customer service), divorced from a truely wonderful man, and involved in some kind of road rage accident. I feel normal again, like I haven't felt in years, and all the problems I mentioned are not problems anymore. I do not relish the thought of taking meds, I have avoided it for years. For now there is one less bitch in the world.~~~8|8
Posted by maxx44 on November 23, 2003, at 0:37:37
In reply to Re: Xanax - Lexapro..Is it anxiety or depression??? » maxx44, posted by Mariposa on November 23, 2003, at 0:01:00
well, road rage is harmfull social activity---and you don't want to fired. as for divorced, it's a funny world. my ex had a tempestuous father---not abusive---but when my mood became more placid---she was 'out-of-love'. i'm glad it's working for you. your previous posts seem to say it wasn't. you seem to be talking 'wild thang'---your husband will probably be pleased---my ex has her problems that most don't. but, for protection, i'd check the net on any med on a regular basis to stay informed. best wishes
Posted by maxx44 on November 23, 2003, at 16:01:11
In reply to Re: Xanax - Lexapro..Is it anxiety or depression??? » maxx44, posted by Mariposa on November 23, 2003, at 0:01:00
someone mentioned xanax and DHEA. i've been searching for that post---can't find it. perhaps the poster may help me on that, as my 'notes' wondering if my severely lessened physical activity, which i attributed to a bout of atypical neuroleptic syndrome, show i was switched to librium about the same time. thank you.
Posted by femlite on November 23, 2003, at 22:24:39
In reply to Re: Xanax - Lexapro..Is it anxiety or depression???, posted by maxx44 on November 22, 2003, at 0:16:11
> kinda cryptic response---did you mean you 'waited' 20 years, or 'wasted' 20?
I was thinking how much easier it is for others afraid to face the face of God and i am waiting in my demintia. I have found His face, and no longer wait
There is no need to delay. Her hand contols what is her own fate
cioas for depression and anxiety, they often go together. the reason i asked about 'thinking' was you placed it in BOLD print. perhaps my response didn't show up. i've noticed a few things on this board---you don't always see the entire thread unless you click on 'thread' at the top. yeah, it's unfortunate some of us get 'the wild ride', but we do. hard to say if lexapro caused panic, but true coincidences are rare. best regards
kinda cryptic response---did you mean you 'waited' 20 years, or 'wasted' 20? as for depression and anxiety, they often go together. the reason i asked about 'thinking' was you placed it in BOLD print. perhaps my response didn't show up. i've noticed a few things on this board---you don't always see the entire thread unless you click on 'thread' at the top. yeah, it's unfortunate some of us get 'the wild ride', but we do. hard to say if lexapro caused panic, but true coincidences are rare. best regards
Posted by maxx44 on November 24, 2003, at 0:09:31
In reply to 20 yrs or 20 yrs. » maxx44, posted by femlite on November 23, 2003, at 22:24:39
well, you have me there. hope you're ok. lexapro is an unknown to me, benzos and tcas i know, and they're so old most users can relate. this is a med-site, i'm no dr., but the variability of your posts kinda reminds me of the times imipramine has popped me into 'rapid-cycling'---so back i went to my dr. best wishes
Posted by micro on November 24, 2003, at 0:56:44
In reply to Xanax - Lexapro..Is it anxiety or depression???, posted by jewelzz on November 21, 2003, at 8:38:45
> Back in 97 I had my first panic attack. I couldn't leave my house, had MANY phobias. I was put on buspar .. couldn't handle the "no feeling" I had, so dr tried to put me on prozac on top of the buspar. Also suggested switching to xanax. Needless to say, I feared the medicines, flushed them all (only took the buspar 2 months, none of the prozac) and sought therapy. After 6 months was panic attack free. I learned to talk myself down once it starts. Have never had a panic attack since.
> Recently I became depressed, had a "breakdown" and started on lexapro (antidepressant similiar to celexa) 3 days ago. First night felt good, second day had a Full Blown Panic Attack that I could not control, and third day started feeling a little emotionless. Have had palpitations, tremors, and no sleep. I am only taking 5mg right now, but my body is ultra sensitive to meds.
> Question is, has anyone else used lexapro that has anxiety and depression? What type of side effects did you experience? Any other info would be great!
> My doc now says I probably have depression due to my anxiety (I THINK alot, and have trouble relaxing). Suggests xanax to take as I need it, not on a regular basis. Afraid I may feel like a zombie again. Afraid to become addicted...
> If anyone has some insight I would greatly appreciate it! Thanks!Hello! I can speak from experience and from the literature on Xanax, it is not a take as you need it med. for most people. Rebound anxiety or increase in symtoms is common, thus the need for frequent dosing. It is a drug with a very short half life, therefore,it can be more difficult to seperate the disease state from the actual drug induced symtoms or break thru symtoms as the med. levels decrease in blood. micro-
Posted by brussell on November 24, 2003, at 1:10:33
In reply to Xanax - Lexapro..Is it anxiety or depression???, posted by jewelzz on November 21, 2003, at 8:38:45
Hello,
I also had a bad rxn to lexapro. It made me feel numb and stoned in a really horrible way. In general the SSRIs all have this effect on me. I have BPD with severe episodes of depression and anxiety.
Depression and anxiety are so closely linked that treating one effectively will probably help the other. Personally, I have found the benzodiazapines (like xanax or ativan) to be wonderful drugs, with few or no side effects. (Buspar never worked for me) They can be habit forming, but this is much less likely if you are careful to take the minimum amount necessary to control the anxiety. I have never had a craving for these drugs, and I quit taking them when my anxiety remits without noticing any effect. Of course, everyone is different.
I have heard from my psychiatrist that ativan (lorazapan) is better than xanax if you have chronic anxiety. Xanax works faster but also wears off faster.
Good luck finding an antidepressant that works. Everyone seems to respond to these drugs differently. I've had no luck with any of the current generation with the exception of Welbutrin (which doesn't do quite enough). I'm starting on an MAOI (Parnate) next week.
Best wishes.
Posted by micro on November 24, 2003, at 1:14:54
In reply to Re: Xanax Withdrawal, posted by Phyllis Chandler on August 18, 1998, at 23:54:39
> Threeco... I have heard and seen that klonopin is worse....getting ready whether I have a doctor or not.....was at 8 mponths off before when they convinced me that I needed to be back on....just as before panic is worse on the medication......
> it seems to be causing what it is suppose to take care of.......anyone try anything in the natural
> remedy area.......any results.....love and light
>
>
Hello! you are so correct in stating your symtoms in regard to many benzos xanax, klonopin etc,it has always amazed me how many pdocs really don't understand the pharmacolgy of the meds which they rx. Also, how many times have you heard one say" I never heard of that or that isn't possible or your symtoms have returned. Granted this type of pharmacology is in its infancy,but the actual number of true psycopharms is few. So if a drug isn't working [in the manner you state], please discont, and try and alternative. Most of the meds can and do cause similar symtoms to those which you desire controlled or eliminated. The top docs are aware that depression can be caused by klonopin and other benzos. micro= Do Not Discont. Without your Doc.
Posted by rbeck on November 25, 2003, at 15:21:52
In reply to Xanax - Lexapro..Is it anxiety or depression???, posted by jewelzz on November 21, 2003, at 8:38:45
Anyone out there have experience with Temporal Lobe ADD and Seizures? I was diagnosed with the TL Seizures about 11 years ago, and then believed I just had various anxiety and depression symptoms- which ended up being adult onset ADD. Wow... Was that ever a difficult 10+ years. I had a dreadful time with [lack of] organization, sometimes hyperfocus, frequent social anxiety, etc. --But I'm a mom! Please tell me there's someone out there with these sort of symptoms. And now I'm taking Effexor (300-450 mg), Adderall (30 mg), and Trileptol (just recently went from 600 to 900 due to seizures two days in a row- after not having any for several months).
I've tried too many different meds to name. But maybe it wasn't the right combination... Now, the Adderall ( I think) is making me feel very out of it... with a dry mouth, I catch my self oddly moving my lips/mouth, kind of wanting to do intense tasks but becoming very aggitated when I can't.
Recommendations? Comments? Thanks guys!! (I found this site after linking up with some old- 2001, postings about temporal lobe epil/ ADD.
Posted by maxx44 on November 25, 2003, at 16:40:26
In reply to Effex, Adderall, Trileptol- Temp Lobe ADD Seizu, posted by rbeck on November 25, 2003, at 15:21:52
only seizure thing i've been on was neurontin---for aniety. like most meds it does different things to each of us. you are told to avoid grapefruit w/neurontin. neurontin seemed benign to me, but oddly increased exercise? go figure? good luck, wish i knew more, but even if i did, it probably wouldn't apply. aside from the few old things that seem to work sort-of the same for most (benzos, tcas, maois, lithium, trazadone, dexidrene) these newer critters seem to react quite differently for various people, so differently i really wonder if it's wise to do what so many on boards do---ask others what's worked for them. if we were all identical twins, that might make things easier. but we're unique. i also ask others, we all want to get better. so it seems a natural thing to do. but does it work?
love to hear some success stories. best wishes
Posted by rbeck on November 25, 2003, at 18:44:34
In reply to Re: Effex, Adderall, Trileptol- Temp Lobe ADD Seizu, posted by maxx44 on November 25, 2003, at 16:40:26
> only seizure thing i've been on was neurontin---for aniety. like most meds it does different things to each of us. you are told to avoid grapefruit w/neurontin. neurontin seemed benign to me, but oddly increased exercise? go figure? good luck, wish i knew more, but even if i did, it probably wouldn't apply. aside from the few old things that seem to work sort-of the same for most (benzos, tcas, maois, lithium, trazadone, dexidrene) these newer critters seem to react quite differently for various people, so differently i really wonder if it's wise to do what so many on boards do---ask others what's worked for them. if we were all identical twins, that might make things easier. but we're unique. i also ask others, we all want to get better. so it seems a natural thing to do. but does it work?
> love to hear some success stories. best wishesThank you Maxx... I agree with your comments. But with conditions like these, it's always nice to hear of others who understand. :) Thanks again for your feedback. And best wishes to you too.
Posted by C.Burton on November 25, 2003, at 21:45:16
In reply to Xanax - Lexapro..Is it anxiety or depression???, posted by jewelzz on November 21, 2003, at 8:38:45
Hi! I hope this will help you. I find all of this so very interesting. A few years ago I started having panic attacks and sleepless nights followed. When I say sleepless nights, I literally mean I could not fall asleep!! Long story short, I went 2 whole months without sleeping at night and that of course made the panic attacks,anzxiety and depression so much worse! I tried Paxil,Celexa and Xanax was the only thing that would relax me enough to fall asleep for even a couple of hours at a time but of course the doctor would not give me much of that. The point of all this is , I eventually ditched all medicines and got to the core issue and for me it was deep and personal and I did not even know it existed. When I found out was troubling me and got counseling for that all panic attacks ended and I have truly not suffered from any more problems! We all handle emotional things differently and maybe whatever troubles people like you and I really embeds itself so deeply that later in life we suffer until we explore what the true problem is.
Posted by maxx44 on November 25, 2003, at 21:55:44
In reply to Re: Effex, Adderall, Trileptol- Temp Lobe ADD Seizu, posted by rbeck on November 25, 2003, at 18:44:34
thank you so much. certainly in consideration of drug co. trial 'errors', in their fiscal quest, and so many posters deal only with newer drugs---it may be wise to draw data from board members---the 'real-life' info pool---but you'd have to see a trend, i think, to decide. your response promted my insight---how'd you do that? live long and prosper.
Posted by maxx44 on November 25, 2003, at 22:31:45
In reply to Re: Xanax - Lexapro..Is it anxiety or depression???, posted by C.Burton on November 25, 2003, at 21:45:16
smart dr. on xanax or you'd regret it. i agree many, many issues may be unresolved conflicts, but i think some such as bipolar disorder, etc. also involve currently termed genetic disposition. in the case of unresolved conflict---that would de-stabilize the vulnerable. probably stress-driven. of my children 2 are bipolar---the only 2 to experience major traumatic events in childhood.
Posted by kaylen on November 25, 2003, at 23:51:43
In reply to Re: Xanax - Lexapro..Is it anxiety or depression???, posted by maxx44 on November 25, 2003, at 22:31:45
Have been watching the posts here for a little while {posted a time or two}...and I think your all terrific...everyone cares..and really do want to help. I am curious about one thing...
I had not a clue I would have the chance to be in contact with so many manic/depressives aka
bi/polars....I am now hypo manic and take xanax
I still get excited about the smallest things but that to me has been a gift..like ..being able to see things from a child's point of view.
so much is always freash and new. Im lucky to be on the manic side..the depression is so ..I can't think of a word ...Ive mostly been a happy person my whole life ...when I am severly depressed I am sorry that I was ever created..and thats so sad to feel that way when I know what a wondourous place we have here if we just choose to look at it..depression seems to take that choice away and all i can see is the bad. Does anyone know of little {or big}..things to do to help make it pass faster or to not take over at all?...I have found that if I am depressed and I don't want to go..do...see...whatever ..and I do it in an attempt to shake it off ..I have a horrible time
sorry I ever even tried and it just confirms that my only hope is to wait it out ..and I have a hard time beleiving that sometimes ..in fact ive mistaken the hell world ..for my real world
too often and it bleeds into my life...and changes ...but I feel extreamly lucky/blessed that I am getting better all the time ...and I dont know the abreviations or lingo but I refuse to take "brain tweaking" stuff...{for me xanax allows me to be me}...and my depressions are practically non-exsistant...thank you
kaylen
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