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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Gianpiero on September 12, 2003, at 9:56:54
Hi everybody,
My question is....What are the effects of SSRI's on an individual with normal levels of Serotonin or an individual who does not have a chemical imbalance? I, too, like many of you out there have been battling depression and anxiety for quite a while now. I am beginning to think that I may no long need meds and that my continued use is actually having adverse effects on me.
When I started taking meds(Celexa), I was performing poorly in school, sleeping at weird hours everyday, abusing caffeine (8 to 10 cups a day). I became depressed and didn't want to go out anymore. My GP diagnosed me with Social Anxiety Disorder. I did well on Celexa for about 3 months and have been experiencing a long relapse since then. My relapse included a very unhealthy relationship, which led me to abuse cannabis.
I am currently taking Lexapro for 2 months now, and I have been a basketcase. I think about suicide, avoid my family, avoid friends, avoid co-workers, and I just don't feel capable of doing anything. All I feel like doing is sleeping all day long. I feel depressed and I feel like an alien. I can't connect with people any longer and I feel extremely anxious among my closest of friends and family. I have a constant burning in my stomach which adds to my All this made me stop abusing cannabis, quit caffeine use all together, exercise regularly, adust my sleep schedule and I don't feel any better.
I haven't taken Lexapro for the past three days and have been taking Magnesium Citrate supplements at multiple times throughout the day. I finally am starting to have energy again, I feel less anxious, less rigid, less paranoid, more happy. Could it be that I only needed SSRI's for that rough spot in my life? And now that I am healthier and have eliminated my bad habits, the extra serotonin in my blood could actually have been toxic?
Has anybody else had problems like this with Lexapro? Does anybody else think they have some similarities with me? If Dr. Bob reads this, maybe he could give an expert opinion on this.
Thank you very much
and good luck to you all.Gianpiero
Posted by Bill L on September 12, 2003, at 10:40:31
In reply to SSRI's without Chem Imbalance, posted by Gianpiero on September 12, 2003, at 9:56:54
Unfortunately, there is no reliable blood test for serotonin levels. So medication is mostly trial and error.
Right now you feel better and more energetic 3 days after stopping your medication. That is a very common experience that people have. It's because the medication made you tired and now you have more energy. Hopefully that feeling will last, but a lot of times people will eventually go back to being anxious and depressed within a few weeks.
You said that you initially did good on Celexa. Usually if one does good on a drug, the good feeling often times diminishes over time and the dose needs to be increased. An increased dose will very often work.
In your case, it's hard to tell what to do. First see if you do ok without any drugs. But if the anxiety and/or depression returns, resume medication immediately! Be aggressive. I can't say whether you should go back on Lexapro with an increased dose, or a different drug, or Lexapro in combination with another drug.
You said that before drugs, you were performing poorly in school. To me, that means that you may very well need Ritalin. Ritalin can be, and often is, combined with an antidepressant. Ask your doctor about that.
Posted by stjames on September 12, 2003, at 11:29:12
In reply to SSRI's without Chem Imbalance, posted by Gianpiero on September 12, 2003, at 9:56:54
What are the effects of SSRI's on an individual with normal levels of Serotonin or an individual who does not have a chemical imbalance?
Neither of these conditions really happens, so what are you asking ?
Posted by linkadge on September 12, 2003, at 12:18:33
In reply to SSRI's without Chem Imbalance, posted by Gianpiero on September 12, 2003, at 9:56:54
Some peoples depression only responds partially to SSRI's. These drugs to not cure everyone's depression. Some peoples depression is a responce to anxiety, which ceases when the anxiety does. For some depression can be a result of improper nutrition or inadequete exercise.
Just because you respond to an antidepressant does not necesarily discount other reasons for the begining of your depression.
Other people respond better to SNRI's which help restore noradrenic transmission as well as serotogentic.
Linkadge
Posted by McPac on September 12, 2003, at 23:45:52
In reply to Re: SSRI's without Chem Imbalance, posted by linkadge on September 12, 2003, at 12:18:33
"Some peoples depression is a responce to anxiety, which ceases when the anxiety does"
>>>>>>Link, what is THAT kind of depression called (is there a technical psychiatric term for that?)
Thanks!
Posted by linkadge on September 13, 2003, at 15:05:31
In reply to Link, Re: SSRI's without Chem Imbalance, posted by McPac on September 12, 2003, at 23:45:52
Well, I'm not sure if it has a name exactly, but I do know that chronic stress alters the ht51a autoreceptors in certain people, leading to a downregulation of the serotogenic system.
Not sure of the specifics. Also keep in mind that it is the uncontrolled cortisol that shrinks hippocampus size.
Linkadge
Posted by Viridis on September 15, 2003, at 4:17:27
In reply to Link, Re: SSRI's without Chem Imbalance, posted by McPac on September 12, 2003, at 23:45:52
My pdoc just calls it "anxiety-induced depression", believes it's real, and says that the whole thing is very controversial because anxiety and depression are "inextricably intertwined". But he was adamant that for me, the first and most crucial thing to do was to address the anxiety issues.
My GP says there's no such thing as an anxiety disorder, all anxiety is caused by depression, and that modern antidepressants are free of side effects and will fix everything (except that they don't, at least in my case).
Posted by McPac on September 16, 2003, at 16:03:40
In reply to Re: Link, Re: SSRI's without Chem Imbalance » McPac, posted by Viridis on September 15, 2003, at 4:17:27
Hi V,
anxiety and dep certainly do seem intertwined much of the time.....still, there are times when my nerves are terrible when I don't feel depressed...and other times when I feel depressed but no anxiety....hey, I wrote something down, it was from a study that I read about a while back: "Authors conclude that preventing overactivity of the HPA axis is a key tool for preventive treatment of depression, particularly for individuals with a genetic propensity for the disease". So how do you prevent that overactivity of the HPA axis??? I also jotted this down (MAY have to do with that same study): "Pre-treatment w/ supplemental tyrosine appears to prevent the behavioral depression following an acute stress". I guess they're referring to that extremely lethargic, don't-want-to-move type of behavioral depression that follows a very bad anxious event/state??? What do you think V?
Posted by gianpiero on September 17, 2003, at 18:58:29
In reply to V, Re: Link, Re: SSRI's without Chem Imbalance, posted by McPac on September 16, 2003, at 16:03:40
Thanks to everybody for replying. I've just lost hope that some SSRI is going to be some magical bullet that cures all. I was on 10 mg of Lexapro and I was a nervous wreck and exhausted. Now I'm on 20 mg and I'm still a nervous wreck and exhausted. I frequently think about suicide to end the pain and disappointment. I don't think I'll ever be able to lead a normal life.
Things were never this bad before I started treatment on SSRI's. Is there any chance that I could have made things worse for myself?
I am going to call my pdoc tonight and have him wean me off of Lexapro. I am a total zombie and a basketcase. I was never this bad before.Gianpiero
> Hi V,
>
> anxiety and dep certainly do seem intertwined much of the time.....still, there are times when my nerves are terrible when I don't feel depressed...and other times when I feel depressed but no anxiety....hey, I wrote something down, it was from a study that I read about a while back: "Authors conclude that preventing overactivity of the HPA axis is a key tool for preventive treatment of depression, particularly for individuals with a genetic propensity for the disease". So how do you prevent that overactivity of the HPA axis??? I also jotted this down (MAY have to do with that same study): "Pre-treatment w/ supplemental tyrosine appears to prevent the behavioral depression following an acute stress". I guess they're referring to that extremely lethargic, don't-want-to-move type of behavioral depression that follows a very bad anxious event/state??? What do you think V?
>
Posted by sarah1980 on September 20, 2003, at 3:21:15
In reply to Re: SSRI's without Chem Imbalance, posted by Bill L on September 12, 2003, at 10:40:31
It seems to me that this is the case, that after taking an SSRI for a while it loses effectiveness and can actually make things worse. I have found that using reboxetine for a month and then stopping works best for me. I also take zoloft sometimes but I try to be on it for less than 3 months. I was on medication for 10 years straight before I started this new regimine that is so effective. Don't lose hope, it can take a long time to get the right thing, and you have to switch around sometimes. If you choose to live than you always have the choice available to you to take your life. If you choose to die you burn all your bridges and transfer your misery to those who care about you.
Posted by sfloridamatt on October 21, 2003, at 13:51:58
In reply to Re: SSRI's without Chem Imbalance, posted by linkadge on September 12, 2003, at 12:18:33
>
>
> Other people respond better to SNRI's which help restore noradrenic transmission as well as serotogentic.
>
> Linkadgei never responded to ssri's...combination of effexor and wellbutrin has helped me a lot. i believe that the underlying problem besides my depression is ADD that went untreated as a child..cause of ADD not really sure but is assumed to be imbalance of dopamine and norepinephrine..that is why those two meds work for me..oh and methamphetamine works good too.
there might be a few people out there who do not have any mental health issues but continue to take ssri's for lets say to lose weight, social confidence, etc. but who knows if their results is caused from the ssri itself or the placebo affect (you would be very surprised on how powerful the mind is)
are u looking for something that will inhance a certain brain chemical or what? l-tyrosine is good for dopamine, hated 5-htp for serotonin..then u have my favorites..the stimulants. dexedrine, adderall, even ritalin. very helpful when not abused.
Posted by gianpiero on October 23, 2003, at 11:14:04
In reply to Re: SSRI's without Chem Imbalance, posted by sfloridamatt on October 21, 2003, at 13:51:58
I've been kind of wondering if might have ADD. I've had some very limited success with SSRI's in the past. I still have trouble concentrating and focusing. Alot of my depression and anxiety is due to the fact that I can't concentrate or focus on specific tasks. However, there are times when I am doing something that I really truly love to do, like composing on the PC, and I'm able to spend hours upon hours glued to the computer.
I also used to drink tons of coffee....maybe I could have been trying to self-medicate. All, I know is that when I would drink coffee, it was like a relief. I actually felt normal, and even more social.
Gianpiero
> >
> >
> > Other people respond better to SNRI's which help restore noradrenic transmission as well as serotogentic.
> >
> > Linkadge
>
> i never responded to ssri's...combination of effexor and wellbutrin has helped me a lot. i believe that the underlying problem besides my depression is ADD that went untreated as a child..cause of ADD not really sure but is assumed to be imbalance of dopamine and norepinephrine..that is why those two meds work for me..oh and methamphetamine works good too.
> there might be a few people out there who do not have any mental health issues but continue to take ssri's for lets say to lose weight, social confidence, etc. but who knows if their results is caused from the ssri itself or the placebo affect (you would be very surprised on how powerful the mind is)
> are u looking for something that will inhance a certain brain chemical or what? l-tyrosine is good for dopamine, hated 5-htp for serotonin..then u have my favorites..the stimulants. dexedrine, adderall, even ritalin. very helpful when not abused.
>
>
Posted by sfloridamatt on October 23, 2003, at 14:05:44
In reply to Re: SSRI's without Chem Imbalancesfloridamatt, posted by gianpiero on October 23, 2003, at 11:14:04
> I've been kind of wondering if might have ADD. I've had some very limited success with SSRI's in the past. I still have trouble concentrating and focusing. Alot of my depression and anxiety is due to the fact that I can't concentrate or focus on specific tasks. However, there are times when I am doing something that I really truly love to do, like composing on the PC, and I'm able to spend hours upon hours glued to the computer.
>
> I also used to drink tons of coffee....maybe I could have been trying to self-medicate. All, I know is that when I would drink coffee, it was like a relief. I actually felt normal, and even more social.
>
> Gianpiero
>
> > >
> > >
> > > sounds like you might have symptoms of ADD but only your doctor can diagnose it. i, too, have had little to no response to ssri's. i kept telling my doctor "hello wake up!! maybe i don't have a serotonin imbalance!!" i knew more about medication and the brain more than she did...scary.
there is a new medication for ADD which is not a stimulant called strattera. heard that it works good but has the same side effects of the ssri's including sexual side effects and tends to make people tired all the time. i, myself, prefer stimulants as treatment for ADD in combination with an ssri if you have depression also....what kind of ADD? with/without hypertension? i, unfortunately, have the one without so i was tired all the time. wellbutrin has worked well for ADD and adding the effexor helped my energy level a lot...wish i could afford a psychiatrist though because i would love to get dexedrine or adderall for my add.
kepp us posted!!matt
> >
> >
>
>
Posted by gianpiero on October 24, 2003, at 17:57:12
In reply to Re: SSRI's without Chem Imbalancesfloridamatt, posted by sfloridamatt on October 23, 2003, at 14:05:44
Yeah, it's amazing how little some doctors know. I sometimes wish that I would have gone to medical school, instead of going into programming.
If I do have symptoms of ADD than it would be without hyperactivity. Sometimes I feel like there are so many thoughts and feeling flying through my mind that it just drains my energy. Working an 8 hour day in front of a pc makes me very tired.Have the stimulants helped with your thought function? I have people, including my therapist, tell me that I'm brilliant. The problem is I have no energy, thus no motivation.
Today, I took a 200 mg of Wellbutrin and 50 mg of Provigil. I feel so much better today, but I know that my insurance isn't going to cover Provigil/Modafinil.Thanks Matt,
Gianpiero> > I've been kind of wondering if might have ADD. I've had some very limited success with SSRI's in the past. I still have trouble concentrating and focusing. Alot of my depression and anxiety is due to the fact that I can't concentrate or focus on specific tasks. However, there are times when I am doing something that I really truly love to do, like composing on the PC, and I'm able to spend hours upon hours glued to the computer.
> >
> > I also used to drink tons of coffee....maybe I could have been trying to self-medicate. All, I know is that when I would drink coffee, it was like a relief. I actually felt normal, and even more social.
> >
> > Gianpiero
> >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > sounds like you might have symptoms of ADD but only your doctor can diagnose it. i, too, have had little to no response to ssri's. i kept telling my doctor "hello wake up!! maybe i don't have a serotonin imbalance!!" i knew more about medication and the brain more than she did...scary.
> there is a new medication for ADD which is not a stimulant called strattera. heard that it works good but has the same side effects of the ssri's including sexual side effects and tends to make people tired all the time. i, myself, prefer stimulants as treatment for ADD in combination with an ssri if you have depression also....what kind of ADD? with/without hypertension? i, unfortunately, have the one without so i was tired all the time. wellbutrin has worked well for ADD and adding the effexor helped my energy level a lot...wish i could afford a psychiatrist though because i would love to get dexedrine or adderall for my add.
> kepp us posted!!
>
> matt
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Posted by JoshM on December 22, 2003, at 3:44:49
In reply to Re: SSRI's without Chem Imbalancesfloridamatt, posted by gianpiero on October 23, 2003, at 11:14:04
Hi Gianpiero,
It is very possible you have ADD. Just because you are able to spend hours focusing on something you like to do doesn't mean you are not ADD. ADD is when you are unable to focus on things you find boring.
My depression stems from ADD and I always thought I was just depressed and doctors didn't know why the SSRI's wouldn't work. I thought because I could spend hours on the computer that I couldn't be ADD even though I had all the ADD symptoms. Come to find out I indeed was ADD. So you should probably talk to your Dr. and get that checked out.
> I've been kind of wondering if might have ADD. I've had some very limited success with SSRI's in the past. I still have trouble concentrating and focusing. Alot of my depression and anxiety is due to the fact that I can't concentrate or focus on specific tasks. However, there are times when I am doing something that I really truly love to do, like composing on the PC, and I'm able to spend hours upon hours glued to the computer.
>
>
This is the end of the thread.
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