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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 25. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Dinah on October 11, 2003, at 10:34:37
Heaven only knows if this is the right board...
I've already got migraines and IBS.
My ears ring when I'm agitated.
My ears got eczema that just won't go away after an ear infection, which I understand can be partly stress related?
And now my underarms, or at least my right one, seems to be attacking itself. The skin frequently peels off and I'm getting blood smears on my clothing. I'm assuming it's a new site for the eczema.
I'm sick of all of this. So do I take it to the dermatologist, internist, or psychiatrist?
Posted by NikkiT2 on October 11, 2003, at 10:59:56
In reply to Stress related illnesses, posted by Dinah on October 11, 2003, at 10:34:37
We are so twins sometimes Dinah!!
I had the peeling under arms too.. it happens when my lovely deoderant company changes its formula.. it just strips my armpits if their skin, and its very painful and itchy and annoying.
The only thing I can do to clear it up is stop wearing deoderant for a week (use a body spray or something, but not a heavy spray or roll directly on armpit) and use a hydro cortisone cream on them.
I have only found two deoderants that don't cause this on me.. Nivea and Vaseline Intensive care..
Oh.. and after my last ear infection, I've been using a drop of warmed olive oil in my ear every evening and it really seems to be helping.
Nikki
Posted by Nissy on October 11, 2003, at 11:17:05
In reply to Stress related illnesses, posted by Dinah on October 11, 2003, at 10:34:37
So do I take it to the dermatologist, internist, or psychiatrist?
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
For the eczema you could go to the internist or a dermatologist. I'd go soon if I were you because it can get worse and then take longer to get under control. My daughter has it behind her ears, bottom of her feet and palms of her hands and it's been hard to treat. The first cream we tried didn't work.
Good Luck,
Nissy
Posted by Dinah on October 11, 2003, at 14:46:54
In reply to Re: Stress related illnesses, posted by Nissy on October 11, 2003, at 11:17:05
I have to make an appointment with my internist soon anyway for my quarterly diabetes checkup. I'll make a note on the appointment card to remember to talk to her about it.
I'm sorry about your daughter. The bottom of her feet must cause her a lot of pain.
Thanks.
Dinah
Posted by Dinah on October 11, 2003, at 14:50:12
In reply to Re: Stress related illnesses » Dinah, posted by NikkiT2 on October 11, 2003, at 10:59:56
Thanks Nikki. I'll look for those. The drugstore I went to today didn't have them. And I fled Wal Mart - the roar of the crowds in that cavernous place!! I don't know how my husband stands it. I think that's a middle of the night sort of place.
I don't know about you, but I'm worrying about what's going to turn on me next. My oh so cheerful father was right. I hit forty and started falling apart. :(
Sorry to be so whiny. They really hurt and itch today.
Posted by Cairo on October 12, 2003, at 13:25:39
In reply to Stress related illnesses, posted by Dinah on October 11, 2003, at 10:34:37
Your IBS reminds me of the Fibromyalgia/Chronic Fatigue spectrum and the HPA axis dysfunction/neuroimmunology link:
What presents as IBS in one, may present as CFS or FMS in another with different genetic susceptibilities.
Cairo
Posted by NikkiT2 on October 12, 2003, at 13:32:52
In reply to Re: Stress related illnesses » NikkiT2, posted by Dinah on October 11, 2003, at 14:50:12
I'm trying to think of the one I bought while in the US (I'd gone on honeymoon with no deoderant!!!).. It had a pale blue packaging, and was a creamy type solid stick one, designed for sensitive skin (maybe the ad's said designed for a womans skin??) and that suited my armpits great.
As a rule, I never use a spray deoderant, or a roll on with alcohol in it, or not specifically for sensitive skin. Oh, and never a scented one.
Good luck, and I do hope they clear up soon.. its really miserable I know.
Nikki x
Posted by zeugma on October 12, 2003, at 13:47:33
In reply to Re: Stress and HPA axis, posted by Cairo on October 12, 2003, at 13:25:39
My IBS always worsens after an emotionally stressful week. My whole system begins to shut down and I lose my appetite and ability to sleep. Luckily, the meds I take (especially the nortriptyline and buspirone) have a calming influence on my system and I don't feel completely annihilated by the worst physical symptom I used to experience all the time, the mind-wracking, dizzying NAUSEA and abdominal pain that used to make me feel like I was being split in half.It is so much easier to live without that kind of pain on a regular basis :)
Posted by Nissy on October 13, 2003, at 18:18:11
In reply to Re: Stress related illnesses » Dinah, posted by NikkiT2 on October 12, 2003, at 13:32:52
It had a pale blue packaging, and was a creamy type solid stick one, designed for sensitive skin (maybe the ad's said designed for a womans skin??) and that suited my armpits great.
>
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++Strong enough for a man but made for a woman. Secret deodorant is the product you are referring to I think.
Nissy :)~
Posted by Dinah on October 19, 2003, at 20:15:46
In reply to Re: Stress and HPA axis, posted by Cairo on October 12, 2003, at 13:25:39
I'm sorry to take so long in getting back to you. I wanted to look something up from my past research and I really haven't been feeling well.
I found out, quite by accident, that many of my symptoms had to do with acetylcholine. IBS, migraines, and vasomotor rhinorrhea in addition to the various and sundry mental health symptoms. It was in looking up my runny nose that comes in rather unusual circumstances that I discovered the links.
So I figured the answer to all my problems would be an anticholinergic drug and got myself a prescription for Nortryptiline. It worked pretty well for the IBS and I think if I recall it also worked for the migraines (which Effexor did as well), but I soon could feel that it was affecting my norepinephrine levels and that always has horrible effects for me. I apparently have all the norepinephrine my body can stand. So I had to drop it.
But it is interesting how all those things can be traced back to the cholinergic system.
http://www.jcaai.org/Param/Rhinitis/Complete/non_allergic_rhinitis.htm
Vasomotor rhinitis is unrelated to allergy, infection, structural lesions, systemic disease, or drug abuse. (see summary statement #16) Although the term vasomotor implies increased neural efferent traffic to the blood vessels supplying the nasal mucosa, this has never been proven. Subjects with vasomotor rhinitis fall into two general groups: "runners" who have "wet" rhinorrhea, and "dry" subjects with predominant symptoms of nasal congestion and blockage to airflow, and minimal rhinorrhea. These reactions can be provoked by nonspecific irritant stimuli such as cold dry air, perfumes, paint fumes, and cigarette smoke. Subjects with predominantly rhinorrhea (sometimes referred to as cholinergic rhinitis) appear to have enhanced cholinergic glandular secretory activity, since atropine effectively reduces their secretions. (3) Subjects with predominantly nasal congestion and blockage may have nociceptive neurons that have heightened sensitivity to innocuous stimuli.
Emotional factors such as stress and sexual arousal are known to have an effect on the nose, probably due to autonomic stimulation. (4)
Posted by Dinah on October 19, 2003, at 20:27:36
In reply to Re: Stress and HPA axis » Cairo, posted by Dinah on October 19, 2003, at 20:15:46
And here it is in eczema
http://www.worldallergy.org/professional/allergic_diseases_center/atopiceczema/index.shtml
Autonomic nervous system dysregulation
In response to different pharmacological stimuli, a substantial proportion of patients with AEDS shows a decreased β-adrenergic and an increased a-adrenergic or cholinergic reactivity. Clinically, the white dermatographism and some psychosomatic interactions may partially be explained by this imbalance, which also gives rise to enhanced releasability of vasoactive mediators, e.g., histamine and leukotrienes, after appropriate stimulation
And Nikki, don't I recall that there is some linkage between Borderline Personality Disorder (which I always identify with, at least the affective instability and abandonment issues) and the cholinergic system?http://www.biopsychiatry.com/acetph.htm
It really does all tie together.
The question is, is there a drug that regulates the cholinergic system without increasing the dreaded (in my case) norepinephrine?
Posted by Dinah on October 19, 2003, at 21:30:35
In reply to Re: Stress and HPA axis, posted by Dinah on October 19, 2003, at 20:27:36
Ok, after more research I see that nortriptyline is a secondary amine, which causes more increases in norepinephrine than tertiary amines like amitriptyline, imipramine, trimipramine, and doxepin.
Since drugs that enhance NE are like poison to me, and since so many of my physical symptoms (and possibly also my affective instability?) seem to respond to anticholinergic drugs, perhaps tricyclics are worth another shot. But this time one of the tertiary amines. What do you think? I'd have to check out the effects on insulin and diabetes. :(
Posted by zeugma on October 20, 2003, at 21:04:10
In reply to Re: Tertiary amines - Opinions please?, posted by Dinah on October 19, 2003, at 21:30:35
Hi,
the tertiary amines are more serotonergetic than the secondary amines, but in part that's an illusion. They all break down to NE-preferential secondary amines in the body. If ACh antagonism is what you need, maybe Cogentin would work. TCA's have multiple mechanisms of action and it sounds like you need something selective.
Posted by Dinah on October 20, 2003, at 21:50:20
In reply to Re: Tertiary amines - Opinions please? » Dinah, posted by zeugma on October 20, 2003, at 21:04:10
Ugh. You're right. I sure don't want another NE experience. Shudder.
Thanks for saving me from that fate. I'll look into Cogentin.
Posted by Francesco on October 21, 2003, at 5:25:05
In reply to Re: Tertiary amines - Opinions please?, posted by Dinah on October 19, 2003, at 21:30:35
Hi Dinah, why did you mention "insulin and diabetes" ? Is there a relation between use of tertiary amines and diabetes ? (If so where did you read it?) I'm asking because I took clomopramine for years ...
Posted by Dinah on October 21, 2003, at 8:37:43
In reply to Re: Tertiary amines - Opinions please? » Dinah, posted by Francesco on October 21, 2003, at 5:25:05
I just read some cautions on the monographs of the drugs about taking it when you have diabetes. Pretty common I'm sure. But I also recall reading that nortriptyline had unpredictable effects on blood glucose levels. Could be wrong about that though. Memory isn't what it should be.
Posted by Francesco on October 21, 2003, at 8:47:56
In reply to Re: Tertiary amines - Opinions please? » Francesco , posted by Dinah on October 21, 2003, at 8:37:43
pardon me Dinah, I misunderstood.
I thought you mantained that tertiary amines can cause diabetes. Look on www.mentalhealth.com
for the info you're looking for. there are wonderful monographs on the drugs.
Posted by Dinah on October 21, 2003, at 10:15:22
In reply to Re: Tertiary amines - Opinions please?, posted by Francesco on October 21, 2003, at 8:47:56
Posted by Larry Hoover on October 21, 2003, at 10:39:04
In reply to Re: Stress and HPA axis » Cairo, posted by Dinah on October 19, 2003, at 20:15:46
> I'm sorry to take so long in getting back to you. I wanted to look something up from my past research and I really haven't been feeling well.
>
> I found out, quite by accident, that many of my symptoms had to do with acetylcholine. IBS, migraines, and vasomotor rhinorrhea in addition to the various and sundry mental health symptoms. It was in looking up my runny nose that comes in rather unusual circumstances that I discovered the links.Dinah, I am totally struck by the symptom cluster you describe. Although attributed to different diagnoses (diabetes included here, as are mood effects), there is a common element within the group. They're all related to magnesium deficiency. Even the exaggerated response to noradrenergic meds is associated with magnesium deficiency. Have you tried supplements?
Lar
Posted by Dinah on October 21, 2003, at 10:53:58
In reply to Re: Stress and HPA axis » Dinah, posted by Larry Hoover on October 21, 2003, at 10:39:04
No, I haven't. But I will. Magnesium supplements sound like a low risk alternative to the barbiturates, corticosteroids, and anti-cholinergics I was given yesterday.
Do I need to take anything with it for it to work or be absorbed or anything?
I know, I know... Alternative Board right?
Posted by Francesco on October 21, 2003, at 11:17:13
In reply to Re: Stress and HPA axis » Larry Hoover, posted by Dinah on October 21, 2003, at 10:53:58
here's the link (unfortunately in italian)
http://www.psychomedia.it/pm-revs/journrev/ jpr/jpr-1999-47-2-b.htm
they say that nortriptyline worsens the level of glycemia in the patients who have diabetes mellitus (while SSRIs and other tryciclis don't)
the italian article is an abstract of
JOURNAL OF PSYCHOSOMATIC RESEARCH - VOL. 47, N. 2 / 1999
A systematic review of the treatment of
depression with antidepressant drugs in patients who also have a physical iliness
D. Gill and S. Hatcherhope this helps. your memory is not that bad ;-)
Posted by loolot on October 21, 2003, at 14:18:25
In reply to Re: Tertiary amines - Opinions please?, posted by Francesco on October 21, 2003, at 8:47:56
I just posted this on the alternative board, but thought I would post it on this thread to see what you all thought:
I think my adrenal system is completely out of whack.
Heres why I think that, and maybe someone can chime in here:
I have been taking wellbutrin for depression for about 5 years now. Before I took the wellbutrin I had chronic sinusitis, characterised by very inflamed sinuses, causing my eyes to swell up.
A few years ago the Well.n began to fail and I started having terrible asthma and generally bad inflammation of my lungs (asthma is caused partly by inflamed, restricted lung passages) and sinuses, for which no treatment worked, not even predisone after a while.
Finally, I augmented the wellbutrin with effexor, and my asthma cleared up immediately, like a miracle cure.
Now I am off effexor (weight gain and sexual problems) and the asthma is coming back.
I recently started taking strattera (norepinephrine booster) to augment the wellbutrin instead.
The problem is that I take a dose and I am fine for a few hours, then I start to get very tired , pale and very cold as the meds wear off.
I called my doc and asked him to give me a smaller dose so I can take a small dose 2 or 3 times a day instead of one big one.
Now I have been off strattera for a day as I wait for him to call in the prescrip. and my asthma is coming back with a vengeance, and I am puffy, retaining a lot of water, even wors than before I started the strattera.
It seems like my adrenal function is kind of out of whack, and the norepinephrine in all three medications is the only thing that is helping.
However, I worry that in taking these meds that my body will become immune to the norepinephrine, like a dependence, in that the receptors for norepinephrine will stop working (I read this is partly what happens with heart failure) and I will get worse over time.
I am not sure if thats what happened with the wellbutrin or not, or if the stuff just plain wore off.
Anyway, should I take an adrenal supplement? Which one? I do take b12 and folic acid.
Is it a bad idea for adrenal function to take a norepinephrine med?
I also think I am a tiny bit hypothyroid, and cytomel has helped my depression and energy, for whatever thats worth
Posted by Larry Hoover on October 21, 2003, at 14:33:20
In reply to Re: Stress and HPA axis » Larry Hoover, posted by Dinah on October 21, 2003, at 10:53:58
> No, I haven't. But I will. Magnesium supplements sound like a low risk alternative to the barbiturates, corticosteroids, and anti-cholinergics I was given yesterday.
>
> Do I need to take anything with it for it to work or be absorbed or anything?
>
> I know, I know... Alternative Board right?If we don't move it ourselves, it will certainly get moved. See ya over yonder.
Lar
Posted by Dinah on October 21, 2003, at 16:27:13
In reply to I found something on nortriptyline and diabetes » Dinah, posted by Francesco on October 21, 2003, at 11:17:13
Thanks again!
But now I'm thinking I really need a new psychiatrist. To prescribe a diabetic the only tricyclic to cause problems in diabetics?
Sigh.
Posted by francesco on October 21, 2003, at 17:07:13
In reply to Re: I found something on nortriptyline and diabetes » Francesco , posted by Dinah on October 21, 2003, at 16:27:13
This is the end of the thread.
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