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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 22 of 22. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Ron Jones on October 17, 2003, at 13:33:51
Are they not just hell on the brain cells?Has there method of action been proven.After 30 years no one knows what lithium does to stop mania.Do they not cause bad side effects.No one knows the cause of mental illness or the cure.They cure nothing.SSRI drugs cause massive disruptions in the normal brain .If they are good for you then why are they not good for normal brains?if they harm normal brains then why do they not harm yours?What will long term use do to your brain.Why do they just stop working?
Posted by oeps7 on October 17, 2003, at 13:51:33
In reply to Why do you take these drugs?, posted by Ron Jones on October 17, 2003, at 13:33:51
Ron,
People take these drugs ecause they have been lifesavers for some. They have helped people maintain some semblence of order when they could not even leave there house. There are pros and cons with everything but don't knock something if you don't completely understand it.
Posted by Ron Jones on October 17, 2003, at 14:19:02
In reply to Re: Why do you take these drugs?, posted by oeps7 on October 17, 2003, at 13:51:33
HAVE THE DRUGS CURED YOUR ILLNESS?hOW DO THEY WORK?aRE THEY 100% SAFE?WHY DO THEY HARM NORMAL BRAINS OR DO THEY?nO ONE REALLY KNOWS WHAT THESE DRUGS DO TO YOUR BRAIN OR HOW THEY HELP MENTAL ILLNESS.What is causeing your mental illness ?Why can you not just be normal again without drugs?
Posted by oeps7 on October 17, 2003, at 14:36:42
In reply to Re: Why do you take these drugs?, posted by Ron Jones on October 17, 2003, at 14:19:02
Hi Ron,
Effexor worked quite well for me for a number of years and yes it made me able to get out of bed and return to work and able to leave the house. I began to regain my life and was able to develop a semblance of normalcy. These are not ahappy pills. They are normalizers for some people. Medication helped with my debilitating panic attacks and ocd. Depression, OCD and Panic disorder tend to be chemical imbalances in your brain chemistry- your brain is actually overheating and the right med for the right person helps. I AM NOT SAYING EVERYONE BELONGS ON MEDICATION IF THEY ARE A BIT DEPRESSED OR ANXIOUS BUT HAVE YOU EVER SUFFERED FROM THIS AND DO YOU THINK YOU CAN JUST SNAP OUT OF IT!
Also no drug is 100% safe. People weigh the benefits versus the risks. More and more is being learned about depression everyday - someday they will learn by an individual's dna if a drug will work for them or not and who is likely to suffer side effects.
There is a lot to be said for natural things as well, I have benefited from fish oil greatly. Exercise, yoga, meditation, cognitive therapy. However, I believe there is a need for meds for some people - what you think someone with schizophrenia could get by with no meds? Not counting "A beautiful mind"
Peace be with you,
Mary
Posted by stjames on October 17, 2003, at 14:40:33
In reply to Why do you take these drugs?, posted by Ron Jones on October 17, 2003, at 13:33:51
They cure nothing.
That is true, however I have been on AD's for over 20 years and for me they do stop the depression.
Posted by loolot on October 17, 2003, at 14:45:31
In reply to Why do you take these drugs?, posted by Ron Jones on October 17, 2003, at 13:33:51
Posted by Ron Jones on October 17, 2003, at 14:47:03
In reply to Re: Why do you take these drugs?, posted by stjames on October 17, 2003, at 14:40:33
You have had depression for 20 years!What is causeing this?Were you normal before the depression came on you?How old were you and is there a family history of this illness?Do you have anxiety with it?What do think caused the 20 year depression?
Posted by galkeepinon on October 17, 2003, at 15:10:12
In reply to Why do you take these drugs?, posted by Ron Jones on October 17, 2003, at 13:33:51
Hi Ron, I think ANY medication wreaks some *havoc* on our brain cells, just to name a few on our precious body.
I just made a statement to my pdoc and my therapist that 'medication *for me* has done its job, it's done everything it's going to do. That is the choice *I* make. It's now time to start working, talking, and healing.
So, my mother is actually going to one of my sessions next week with me, since we both have some issues regarding our relationship. No medication can do that.
For *me*, medication has helped me to work better in therapy lately, and has enabled me to what I need to do.
Just *my* 2 cents worth...
You have raised some GREAT questions, I think I need to think about them some more:-)
Best wishes.
> Are they not just hell on the brain cells?Has there method of action been proven.After 30 years no one knows what lithium does to stop mania.Do they not cause bad side effects.No one knows the cause of mental illness or the cure.They cure nothing.SSRI drugs cause massive disruptions in the normal brain .If they are good for you then why are they not good for normal brains?if they harm normal brains then why do they not harm yours?What will long term use do to your brain.Why do they just stop working?
Posted by stjames on October 17, 2003, at 15:21:50
In reply to Re: Why do you take these drugs?, posted by Ron Jones on October 17, 2003, at 14:47:03
I have 2 LD's, depression is comorbid. I do well
on AD's.
Posted by stjames on October 17, 2003, at 15:24:12
In reply to Re: Why do you take these drugs?, posted by Ron Jones on October 17, 2003, at 14:47:03
You have had depression for 20 years!
No, my depression has been well contoled for 20
years. It does peak out once in a while, just to show me it is still there. Just as you have peaked out to show us how many misunderstand mental illness.
Posted by oeps7 on October 17, 2003, at 15:30:40
In reply to Re: Why do you take these drugs?, posted by stjames on October 17, 2003, at 15:24:12
> You have had depression for 20 years!
>
> No, my depression has been well contoled for 20
> years. It does peak out once in a while, just to show me it is still there. Just as you have peaked out to show us how many misunderstand mental illness.;O)
Posted by Penny on October 17, 2003, at 15:44:32
In reply to Why do you take these drugs?, posted by Ron Jones on October 17, 2003, at 13:33:51
I take them b/c my brain is NOT normal. If it was normal without them, I wouldn't take them! It HAS been shown in laboratory studies that untreated depression (which is my problem) causes damage to the neurons in the brain, and antidepressants help to counteract that damage. I just read an article last week in a scientific magazine that stated that the hippocampus of individuals with *untreated* depression were smaller than the hippocampus of 'normal' individuals, but that treating the depressed individuals with antidepressants (namely, the SSRIs) helped to counteract that, and they actually showed evidence that the ADs helped regrow and protect the neurons.
Here's the article:
http://www.discover.com/issues/nov-03/rd/pumped-up-on-prozac/Do psych meds work for everyone? No. Everyone's brain is not the same. Does everyone who is *mildly* depressed need a drug? Of course not. Are they being overprescribed? Most definitely.
But there are many of us who, even with the side effects and even with the meds not working perfectly, are better off taking them than not. I'm one of those people. I would prefer to not have to take meds. Really and truly. But I've been off of them altogether in the past (after reaching a 'good point' for a while), and my depression relapsed with a vengence.
P
Posted by Robert Fairburn on October 17, 2003, at 17:51:40
In reply to Re: Why do you take these drugs? » Ron Jones, posted by Penny on October 17, 2003, at 15:44:32
Ron
I must say that you need to think twice about AD drugs. There are millions of people who would not be alive if they didn't have access to AD drugs. However a small but significant group do not respond to any AD drug. A lot of these people you will find here. I myself have a poor record with AD drugs, but this doesn't stop me realising what value they are to other people.
Robert
Posted by btnd on October 17, 2003, at 19:10:26
In reply to Re: Why do you take these drugs?, posted by Ron Jones on October 17, 2003, at 14:19:02
> HAVE THE DRUGS CURED YOUR ILLNESS?hOW DO THEY WORK?aRE THEY 100% SAFE?WHY DO THEY HARM NORMAL BRAINS OR DO THEY?nO ONE REALLY KNOWS WHAT THESE DRUGS DO TO YOUR BRAIN OR HOW THEY HELP MENTAL ILLNESS.What is causeing your mental illness ?Why can you not just be normal again without drugs?
With all due respect, what is your problem? Why are you "jumping" on anyone who takes medication for depression/anxiety?? People take medication because there have been done many DOUBLE-BLIND STUDIES and there are actual responses showing that it works more than just placebo. I for one have been cured from my life-long social phobia and dysthymia by simply correcting the dopamine deficiency via drug called amisulpride. If you don't know how the drug works - google.com -> pubmed -> "drug". I think it's time you did some reading before you start judging and telling people what's normal or good for them.
Posted by Cruz on October 17, 2003, at 19:38:05
In reply to Re: Why do you take these drugs? » Ron Jones, posted by btnd on October 17, 2003, at 19:10:26
A study I saw last week discovered that people with depression had abnormal immune systems. It is a little more evidence for the belief I have for my own depression, which I am certain is not caused by problems with seritonin, dopamine or NE.
Posted by loolot on October 17, 2003, at 20:58:27
In reply to Our brains might be normal!, posted by Cruz on October 17, 2003, at 19:38:05
> A study I saw last week discovered that people with depression had abnormal immune systems. It is a little more evidence for the belief I have for my own depression, which I am certain is not caused by problems with seritonin, dopamine or NE.>>
Interesting. Sometimes I wonder if it is a virus which then causes something like a bad immune response, as you said.
Do you have the link to this study?
Posted by DepNYer on October 18, 2003, at 10:45:34
In reply to Re: Our brains might be normal! » Cruz, posted by loolot on October 17, 2003, at 20:58:27
I know I'm new here, but i just wanted to contribute something to this thread. I've had recurrent major depressive episodes over the last several years. I tried denial, talk therapy, hiding in bed from my family, and attempted suicide as "treatments" for my depression. Medications saved my life. My "cocktail" is pretty aggresive, but now I laugh, cry, enjoy life, become upset at occurances that any "normal" person would feel. In other words I've gotten my life back with a full range of emotions. Life is not always all sad, or happy for that matter. Yet for those in the grips of depression, emotions disappear, a feeling of numbness to life's events, and a complete feeling of isolation.
Is depression biochemically mediated? Yes. Perhaps not in the "simplisitc" manner of current science and medicine, but even there, there is a recognition of the complexity of the interactions of neurotransmitters and neuronal function, and even neuronal death.
The one area I feel is appropriately adressed is in the over diagnosis of depression. Life is filled with challenges, disappointments, and stresses. These normal emotions certainly will respond to talk therapy to work out better coping mechanisms. Even placebos will work for the average person, as, if they believe this "outside" influence of the "magic pill" can control their emotions, it will, but they are just drawing on their own inner strength which is validated by any intervention. There are many people on medications who really don't need to be.
Yet, for those of us with major depression, bipolar disease, or true PTSD,GAD,and real panic attacks, medications are what keep us alive, and hopefully able to live fuller, happier lives. It took me almost 6 years to discover the "cocktail" that works for me. Others here still seek that.
Mental illness is real. Mental illness is not a lack of character. Mental illness is not a choice of anyone here would choose. I know that if any person here could eliminate their illness permanently, they would jump at it.
Are meds over prescribed in this country? Yes. But for those among us with a real, quantifiable illness, medications have saved thousands of lives.
Posted by iris2 on October 18, 2003, at 17:58:03
In reply to Re: Our brains might be normal!, posted by DepNYer on October 18, 2003, at 10:45:34
> I know I'm new here, but i just wanted to contribute something to this thread. I've had recurrent major depressive episodes over the last several years. I tried denial, talk therapy, hiding in bed from my family, and attempted suicide as "treatments" for my depression. Medications saved my life. My "cocktail" is pretty aggresive, but now I laugh, cry, enjoy life, become upset at occurances that any "normal" person would feel. In other words I've gotten my life back with a full range of emotions. Life is not always all sad, or happy for that matter. Yet for those in the grips of depression, emotions disappear, a feeling of numbness to life's events, and a complete feeling of isolation.
>
> Is depression biochemically mediated? Yes. Perhaps not in the "simplisitc" manner of current science and medicine, but even there, there is a recognition of the complexity of the interactions of neurotransmitters and neuronal function, and even neuronal death.
>
> The one area I feel is appropriately adressed is in the over diagnosis of depression. Life is filled with challenges, disappointments, and stresses. These normal emotions certainly will respond to talk therapy to work out better coping mechanisms. Even placebos will work for the average person, as, if they believe this "outside" influence of the "magic pill" can control their emotions, it will, but they are just drawing on their own inner strength which is validated by any intervention. There are many people on medications who really don't need to be.
>
> Yet, for those of us with major depression, bipolar disease, or true PTSD,GAD,and real panic attacks, medications are what keep us alive, and hopefully able to live fuller, happier lives. It took me almost 6 years to discover the "cocktail" that works for me. Others here still seek that.
>
> Mental illness is real. Mental illness is not a lack of character. Mental illness is not a choice of anyone here would choose. I know that if any person here could eliminate their illness permanently, they would jump at it.
>
> Are meds over prescribed in this country? Yes. But for those among us with a real, quantifiable illness, medications have saved thousands of lives.I am new to this too, just a few days.
I have been depressed since I was 15 and I am 44. I have gotten everything from pull yourself up by your bootstraps to your just being selfish and self absorbed.
I even worked for a year as a social worker when I actually felt better for a year or so.
I just explain to those "idiots" sorry but I cannot emotionally take that stuff that the brain is an organ just like your pancreous. Now would you will your pancreous to function normally?
Irene
Posted by Momof1BPKid on October 19, 2003, at 0:31:52
In reply to Our brains might be normal!, posted by Cruz on October 17, 2003, at 19:38:05
I think this makes sense, I have immune system difficulties, i was told i have a "hyper immune system" whatever that means. I believe this though, I have read things on the net regarding chronic fatigue syndrome and fibromyalgia , and depression and immune response etc.
> A study I saw last week discovered that people with depression had abnormal immune systems. It is a little more evidence for the belief I have for my own depression, which I am certain is not caused by problems with seritonin, dopamine or NE.
Posted by Camille Dumont on October 19, 2003, at 12:32:15
In reply to Why do you take these drugs?, posted by Ron Jones on October 17, 2003, at 13:33:51
I take these drugs because they are the only thing keeping me alive.
Sure they have side effects ... but depression has a worse side effect : wanting to die all the time, every day, every night and having methods popping up in my head constantly.
It may not be a definitive cure but for me, right now, I'd rather stay alive.
Posted by Sherrie309 on October 19, 2003, at 15:02:37
In reply to Why do you take these drugs?, posted by Ron Jones on October 17, 2003, at 13:33:51
Ron, I can understand how you feel about people not being able so called to "snap out of it". But from experience I too have said that too myself many times. For years I thought I had the depression under control until something traumatic happened while I was in the Army and it all came out with a tremendous blow. For years I fought not being on medication and was ultimately given a medical discharge for my illness. Even after being discharged I thought that I could control the illness and did everything under the sun but to be slapped down again and again. Finally I have come to the conclusion that the meds that I am finally on have made me a whole person once again. I see brightness in my life and finally can laugh and see a future in my life whereas before I saw nothing but hurrying up to die as fast as possible. There is no reason as to my illness but my brain was not functioning like other so called "normal" people. I was not raised in a bad home or raped or molested. By the way, I have 2 uncles and 1 aunt that killed themselves and wish that they would have had the availability for meds. My sister and brother suffers from depression and we are all on medication. The illness can be genetic as well. Please try to understand that no one wishes to be on medication and if there were any other way we would have jumped on it. Sometimes I resent taking medication but I am alive and doing well so I take them everyday.
Posted by Francesco on October 19, 2003, at 16:25:40
In reply to Why do you take these drugs?, posted by Ron Jones on October 17, 2003, at 13:33:51
we take these drugs because we are masochistic ...
of course this is not the answer.for some people drugs improve their quality of life. that's all
This is the end of the thread.
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