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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by scatterbrained on October 10, 2003, at 21:31:34
I get terrible anxiety among other things from the SSRI's. The only thing that seems to work for my paticular brand of anxiety is sedatives like valium and klonopin. But, after a whlie they just tend to make my depression worse. My cognition is already sooooo profoundly impaired from the depression or whatever else this is and these sedatives just impair me even more. Actually, paradoxically valium and klonipin tend to HELP my cognition at first but only at first. does anybody have any suggestions for me?
Posted by John1022 on October 10, 2003, at 21:38:54
In reply to ssri INDUCED anxiety, posted by scatterbrained on October 10, 2003, at 21:31:34
I just posted in a post above you about having EXTREME paradoxal reactions to SSRI type action AD's (Effexor, Elavil and St. John's Wort)
They take my VERY mild depression and make it an extreme, almost non-functional depression within a week of taking them. When I stop taking them, it slowly lifts away. They also cause EXTREME anxiety in me when I start taking them when anxiety is not part of the original problem whatsoever.
They have personally reaked havoc on my mind causing night mares, extreme sleep disorders, not being able to control my thought processes at all, all loss of concentration, songs getting stuck in my head ALL DAY and multiple, extreme affects on my ears. These all seise as I stop the meds.
Everyone reacts differently to these meds. Some people can have only small problems before taking SSRI type AD's and then have serious problems when taking them from what I have read (of coarse they do help a lot of people though, just depends on a person's chemical make-up)
I really don't think the medical community realizes the extreme consequences for some people while taking these drugs with certain chemical make-ups. But the benefits for most people seem to outweigh what they do to others. It is a very fine line and that is why you just have to be aware of how they are affecting you personally.
Posted by galkeepinon on October 10, 2003, at 21:41:36
In reply to ssri INDUCED anxiety, posted by scatterbrained on October 10, 2003, at 21:31:34
Have you tried Lexapro?
> I get terrible anxiety among other things from the SSRI's. The only thing that seems to work for my paticular brand of anxiety is sedatives like valium and klonopin. But, after a whlie they just tend to make my depression worse. My cognition is already sooooo profoundly impaired from the depression or whatever else this is and these sedatives just impair me even more. Actually, paradoxically valium and klonipin tend to HELP my cognition at first but only at first. does anybody have any suggestions for me?
Posted by scatterbrained on October 10, 2003, at 22:32:57
In reply to Re: ssri INDUCED anxiety » scatterbrained, posted by galkeepinon on October 10, 2003, at 21:41:36
> Have you tried Lexapro?
>
I haven't tried lexapro. I've tried paxil, zoloft, prozac,and celexa as well as many other ADs that aren't ssri's. I wrote a more detailed description of how I tend to respond to these ADs in another recent post entitled "Depression or something else" and I'm really just fiendishly waiting for a response because I've had this depression for a while and I really need some help. If anybody has any suggestions pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeease respond especially to that post.
Thanks
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> > I get terrible anxiety among other things from the SSRI's. The only thing that seems to work for my paticular brand of anxiety is sedatives like valium and klonopin. But, after a whlie they just tend to make my depression worse. My cognition is already sooooo profoundly impaired from the depression or whatever else this is and these sedatives just impair me even more. Actually, paradoxically valium and klonipin tend to HELP my cognition at first but only at first. does anybody have any suggestions for me?
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Posted by poop'd-out on October 11, 2003, at 1:33:17
In reply to ssri INDUCED anxiety, posted by scatterbrained on October 10, 2003, at 21:31:34
I have always gotten extreme anxiety and sometimes murderous rage when I have taken SSRI's. The only thing that helped me was to be on a mood stabilizer along with them.When I was on just Paxil I used to wake up every morning gasping with anxiety. Good times, huh?
Take care of yourself.
Posted by Viridis on October 11, 2003, at 4:45:13
In reply to ssri INDUCED anxiety, posted by scatterbrained on October 10, 2003, at 21:31:34
I hate SSRIs, for the reasons you've mentioned. Klomopin has been great for me, but I take Addderal and Stratttera along with it. You might consider a trial of one of these (especially Strattera), if your doctor is willing to presrribe it -- just go up graduallly on the dose.
Xanax is great for anxiety and mood improvement, so this also worth a try. Unfortunately, it's notorious for dependecy and rapid tolerance. Maybe the new slow-release Xanax would help?
Posted by DoYouKnowHim? on October 11, 2003, at 12:21:10
In reply to Re: ssri INDUCED anxiety, posted by Viridis on October 11, 2003, at 4:45:13
Are you taking Adderall and Klonopin for Anxiety? I am, so was wondering ... Michael
Posted by scatterbrained on October 11, 2003, at 17:08:38
In reply to Re: ssri INDUCED anxiety, posted by Viridis on October 11, 2003, at 4:45:13
> I hate SSRIs, for the reasons you've mentioned. Klomopin has been great for me, but I take Addderal and Stratttera along with it. You might consider a trial of one of these (especially Strattera), if your doctor is willing to presrribe it -- just go up graduallly on the dose
I tried strattera briefly and had a terrible reaction to it. I couldn't eat and had just emense anxiety; HYPNOTIC anxiety if that makes sense.I didn't try it with any of the benzos though. Depression and cognition are my main problems though so not being able to take an anti depressant puts be in a major bind.Any suggestions?
Posted by Viridis on October 12, 2003, at 1:33:17
In reply to Re: Q for VIRIDIS, posted by DoYouKnowHim? on October 11, 2003, at 12:21:10
I'm taking Klonopin for anxiety, and Adderall for ADD. However, Adderall (at low doses) does seem calming to me, probably because it helps me focus. The two seem to go well together, and quite a few others on this board have also had the same experience.
Posted by Viridis on October 12, 2003, at 1:49:22
In reply to Re: ssri INDUCED anxiety, posted by scatterbrained on October 11, 2003, at 17:08:38
I found that Klonopin alone helped with depression, I think because most of my depression is anxiety-induced. However, some people find benzos (except maybe Xanax) increase depression -- it's all very individual.
When you tried Strattera, did you go up gradually on the dose, or start with a high dose (say, 40+ mg/day) immediately? I suspect that this makes a difference -- my side effects were fairly mild, but I moved the dose up slowly, starting with 25 mg. My pdoc says that this is what works best for most of his patients who take Strattera, and the side effects I reported are similar to what he's heard from other patients.
Again, it's all very individual-specific. Some people have a great reaction to SSRIs, or Wellbutrin, but I couldn't tolerate any of these, even at very low doses. Unfortunately, right now it's largely trial and error for everyone. My experience is that it's best to start at a low dose of anything and work up, but some doctors want to start people off at the "optimal" dose immediately.
If you're prone to anxiety, having that under control with a benzo (I'd recommend Klonopin) before you start a med that has the potential for inducing anxiety can be a great help, and may allow you to ride out the initial adjustment period that most ADs require.
Good luck!
Posted by Liligoth on October 12, 2003, at 3:22:58
In reply to ssri INDUCED anxiety, posted by scatterbrained on October 10, 2003, at 21:31:34
again I can relate. Xanax will help me to relax enough to concentrate better but then Xanax always makes my memory much worse so it's a bit of a Catch22.
If you find any answers Scatter pls post back here I would love more info as I suspect we have similar problems.
Posted by worrier on October 13, 2003, at 19:25:40
In reply to ssri INDUCED anxiety, posted by scatterbrained on October 10, 2003, at 21:31:34
> I get terrible anxiety among other things from the SSRI's. The only thing that seems to work for my paticular brand of anxiety is sedatives like valium and klonopin. But, after a whlie they just tend to make my depression worse. My cognition is already sooooo profoundly impaired from the depression or whatever else this is and these sedatives just impair me even more. Actually, paradoxically valium and klonipin tend to HELP my cognition at first but only at first. does anybody have any suggestions for me?
> Can't offer much in the way of helpful advice, but know you are certainly not alone in your reaction to SSRIs. I have tried prozac,zoloft,wellbutrin and paxil. They all increased my anxiety tremendously (and I fear permanently...I used to just have panic attacks that I had lived with rather successfully for nearly 20 years) After my paxil experience, which was over 18 months ago, I still have daily generalized anxiety (which I never had before). Benzos are the only thing that help at all.I'm now on 2mg of the xr twice a day and keep the regular xanax on hand for emergencies. This works o.k. but there is always an underlying hum of anxiety, if that makes any sense. Of all the SSRIs I tried paxil was by far the worst. I've also tried remeron and gabitril....neither helped at all, both made me really irritable and the remeron made me ravenously hungry all the time. So for now I'll stick with the xanax. Don't let the drs try to tell you these drugs can't cause anxiety...they can and very often do. But they are miracles for others. Hang in there, there is still so much we don't know about drugs and how an individual will react to them. Keep trying until you find something that works. Luck to you.
Posted by scatterbrained on October 14, 2003, at 19:59:08
In reply to Re: ssri INDUCED anxiety » scatterbrained, posted by Liligoth on October 12, 2003, at 3:22:58
> again I can relate. Xanax will help me to relax enough to concentrate better but then Xanax always makes my memory much worse so it's a bit of a Catch22.
> If you find any answers Scatter pls post back here I would love more info as I suspect we have similar problems.
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>I have read some of your previous posts where you wrote how well buprenophine seemed to work. Is this still the case? Does it help with cognition?
As for the catch 22 regarding benzos, I've experienced that pretty much all the benzos are the same;give or take a degree. They all tend to do what you described. Busbar strangely, seems to make my anxiety even worse possibly because the only effect I tend to get from it are the side effects which when I'm depressed get hyper intensified; "hyper vigilance" I guess is the medical term.
I've read that neurontin has an anti anxiety component and I haven't read anything about cognitive problems associated with it.From my ignorant understanding, neurontin seems to work on gabba receptors, the same receptors that the benzos work on so maybe it's like a benzo without the cognitive stuff.I was thinking about trying a small dose of neurontin instead of a benzo(I have nothing to lose) but I just don't know what anti-depressant to use with it, buprenophine?Can these two drugs go together?First things first though, I need to rule out anything physical before I try any new drug. Right now I'm not on anything, I don't want to destort the picture.I'm trying to really fine tune this s##t.Hope everything is still working out for you and even if it's not, hang in there, things are just horrific for me right now so if you or anybody else have hit rock botton at least you know you have company in the gutter.
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Posted by Liligoth on October 15, 2003, at 19:44:36
In reply to Re: ssri INDUCED anxiety » Liligoth, posted by scatterbrained on October 14, 2003, at 19:59:08
hey Scatterbrained, I couldnt say about neurontin & buprenorphine. Im mainly ignorant on the technicalities of psych meds. If you try the neurontin pls let us know how it goes, it would be great if it works as hoped.
As for company in the gutter, yes I think it does help to know there are plenty of people out there experiencing the same difficulties & hanging in there. I take a lot of comfort from knowing that even if the meds fail at some point the depression will probably resolve itself eventually. Its just making it through that period.
The Buprenorphine has really raised my level of functioning to a profound degree. I am still not %100 by any means & cannot return to work like this. But, & for me this means A LOT, I feel much better on this than any of the other meds & combos Ive tried.
Keep us posted Scatterbrained
Posted by Mid- Life Crisis on October 19, 2003, at 12:30:55
In reply to Re: ssri INDUCED anxiety, posted by Viridis on October 11, 2003, at 4:45:13
Adderall, which I took for ADHD, induced anxiety (and, later, mood swings also) in me, and methylphenidate also induced anxiety, probably because both made my heart pound. I switched to Strattera, which I'm now on for the 19th day at 40 mg. So far, I cannot tell it's helped my "spaciness", in fact I often feel spacier and like my brain is wrapped in cotton, but I'm hoping that goes away in a few days at the 60 mg. dose. However, I noticed right away that it has completely taken away my near-constant feeling of slight unease, and I cannot worry on it or feel nearly as much anxiety when stressed as I did before. (I have always had problems with performance/social anxiety, such as before important exams, or when giving speeches, etc.) Also, it's not TOO sedating, though I had to switch to taking it at night to lessen that effect, and it does help me sleep. I have found that I can sometimes get rid of the "brain wrapped in cotton wool" feeling by drinking coffee in the a.m., but this isn't always enough. At any rate, this effect is not as bad as the "hangover" I got when I tried Gabitril, which also got rid of my anxiety but left me out of it the next a.m. Once I tried low dose of Xanax, but it made me so sleepy I had to go to sleep in the middle of the day, face down on the bed and couldn't move my neck to breathe except with great difficulty. Tried Buspar for about 2 mos., but found it worked well only the first week or so, then stopped.
So, to make a long story shorter, you may want to try a low dose of Strattera, as I can tell from my experience it has anti-anxiety properties that seem to kick in right away. (And the other side effects are mild and disappear, in my experience, EXCEPT for fatigue, which is still with me on some days.) So far, it's the best thing I've tried for anxiety, and I am hoping the ADHD benefits will kick in at a higher dose. Also, strangely enough, my BP is much lower on this than on stimulants, maybe because I'm having no anxiety?? Good luck and keep posting!
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