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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Sufferfromeffexor on October 7, 2003, at 1:51:04
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR? YES! , posted by Salty_Dog on October 6, 2003, at 18:34:40
I think we should all call the manufacturer of this drug (Wyeth Pharmaceuticals) and bug them every day, many times a day if we have too. I don't know about the rest of you but if I can't get answers from my doctors the next best place to go is to the "horse's mouth". I want answers to my questions and I believe I deserve them. I have paid them plenty of money by taking their drug for 8-9 years it is the least they can do. I am going to start calling them tomorrow and I will call many times a day if I need to, to get answers! Power comes in numbers though doesn't it? I think everyone concerned should do the same and just start calling...it is a free number to call. Just my suggestion due to my constant and acute FRUSTRATION and panic!
Posted by willie on October 7, 2003, at 6:34:58
In reply to Anyone had success on Effexor XR? , posted by jp on October 24, 1999, at 14:59:14
The past week I've been waking up during the night and I have a lot of trouble getting back to sleep. These past few nights have been much worse, I'm maybe averaging 4 - 5 hours of sleep per night. Last night I actually got out of bed and watched TV for a few hours because I was wide awake. I've read postings of people having trouble sleeping when taking effexor. I've been on it for almost a year and had never experienced this.
I was wondering if these people experienced the insomnia right away after starting effexor or had it become a problem after taking the drug for a while? It's so easy to point the finger at the drug and I don't want to do that unless others have experienced the same result. Look forward to any responses...Willie
Posted by slinky on October 7, 2003, at 6:51:14
In reply to Just curious...., posted by willie on October 7, 2003, at 6:34:58
I can't remember when i started to reduce..but I reduced to 150 about 3 weeks ago.
The prozac helps a lot with the physical symptoms..but I've dropped into depression, sleeping more than 15hours out of 24.
Panick attacks and nervousness has returned--when i am awake
I go from intense suicidle thoughts to intense fear of dying thoughts.
I need to keep this up because efexor dealt with anxiety but not the depression...I've been on it about 5 years.
I'm not angry at drug manufacters because i was heading for death with alcohol before i took the drug..so it saved my life...
This is hard drug to quit.
Posted by Sufferfromeffexor on October 7, 2003, at 9:10:17
In reply to Just curious...., posted by willie on October 7, 2003, at 6:34:58
Insomnia...why of course! I don't remember when it started exactly but I know it didn't start until after I was taking this medication...and now that I am coming off of it the insomnia is even worse!
> The past week I've been waking up during the night and I have a lot of trouble getting back to sleep. These past few nights have been much worse, I'm maybe averaging 4 - 5 hours of sleep per night. Last night I actually got out of bed and watched TV for a few hours because I was wide awake. I've read postings of people having trouble sleeping when taking effexor. I've been on it for almost a year and had never experienced this.
> I was wondering if these people experienced the insomnia right away after starting effexor or had it become a problem after taking the drug for a while? It's so easy to point the finger at the drug and I don't want to do that unless others have experienced the same result. Look forward to any responses...Willie
Posted by Sufferfromeffexor on October 7, 2003, at 9:17:57
In reply to Re: joining the withdrawal thread, posted by slinky on October 7, 2003, at 6:51:14
I don't know who I am mad at anymore...or should I say most mad at...the manufacturer or the actual doc that prescribes it and doesn't fulfill his duties by monitoring you while you are on it??? Hmmmm! I did call Wyeth this morning and just as I figured, they couldn't give me any information. They said they don't know the exact mechanism that causes the electric shocks only that they assume it is the brain chemicles rebalancing themselves again. I asked specifically if there were reports of permanent damage from these and they told me no! Other than that I didn't learn anything knew and nothing enlightening. I hate not being able to get answers from people!
Posted by BJL on October 7, 2003, at 10:00:41
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR? YES!, posted by Sufferfromeffexor on October 7, 2003, at 1:34:29
Suffer,
The electric shocks are very minimal now. I was on Paxil for 2-1/2 years and Effexor only for a few months. I went up to 150 mg and then came back down pretty quick. Paxil has many similarities to Effexor (especially since I tried to go off it once and had the EXACT same withdrawal symptoms). Keep your chin up!!
Posted by Music on October 7, 2003, at 10:16:47
In reply to Re: joining the withdrawal thread, posted by Sufferfromeffexor on October 7, 2003, at 9:17:57
I have been diagnosed with major depression that is recurrent and OCD, and a little anxiety. I want to have an "O" if I am going to have sex. I want something out of sex with my husband. Anyway, I have not tried anything except Effexor XR. I just started AD's the end of June 03'. So I am new to this ball park. I want to feel better and I have with Effexor XR finally at 300mg per day. Did not feel better until recently it took 300mg to feel better. I don't know if I could take something along with Effexor XR that would help in the sex catagory. Any suggestions would help.
Music
Posted by Salty_Dog on October 7, 2003, at 12:32:09
In reply to Just curious...., posted by willie on October 7, 2003, at 6:34:58
I am not a Dr., but it sounds like you have developed a different form of depression. Remember, each drug works on a different pathway in the brain. If your brain has decided (triggered) to become depressed, it will use any pathway it can to accomplish it. The preceeding is just a theory. Effexor is not a cure all for depression. Let your Dr. know what is happening if it persists.
Posted by J9 on October 7, 2003, at 14:06:34
In reply to Just curious...., posted by willie on October 7, 2003, at 6:34:58
Willie,
I had the same problem too since day one on effexor. I take 150mg. my pdoc prescribed 50mg of Trazodone to take a bedtime. It works WONDERS!!J9
The past week I've been waking up during the night and I have a lot of trouble getting back to sleep. These past few nights have been much worse, I'm maybe averaging 4 - 5 hours of sleep per night. Last night I actually got out of bed and watched TV for a few hours because I was wide awake. I've read postings of people having trouble sleeping when taking effexor. I've been on it for almost a year and had never experienced this.
> I was wondering if these people experienced the insomnia right away after starting effexor or had it become a problem after taking the drug for a while? It's so easy to point the finger at the drug and I don't want to do that unless others have experienced the same result. Look forward to any responses...Willie
Posted by Mercedes on October 7, 2003, at 15:07:26
In reply to Just curious...., posted by willie on October 7, 2003, at 6:34:58
Hi Willie,
It is the drug - Effexor. I took 37.5 mgs for about a year then another pdoc said it was a low dose and started my increase to finally get to 300mgs. During the 1st increase, 75mgs, I started with the insomnia, only 4 hrs per night, and lasted all the way thru 300mgs. I'm on the decrease now, and still have the 4 maybe 5 hrs of sleep. During the time I was taking it, I would simply fall asleep any time of day, extreemly lathargic. I'm quiting effexor due to so many other SE's. Vision, Tennitus, High Blood Pressure, Lack of Concentration, No Memory, Comprehension problems, you name it, I got it... Going down to 37.5 tomorrow and for a week or so, then OFF completely. Sorry but it's Effexor.
Mercedes
************************************> The past week I've been waking up during the night and I have a lot of trouble getting back to sleep. These past few nights have been much worse, I'm maybe averaging 4 - 5 hours of sleep per night. Last night I actually got out of bed and watched TV for a few hours because I was wide awake. I've read postings of people having trouble sleeping when taking effexor. I've been on it for almost a year and had never experienced this.
> I was wondering if these people experienced the insomnia right away after starting effexor or had it become a problem after taking the drug for a while? It's so easy to point the finger at the drug and I don't want to do that unless others have experienced the same result. Look forward to any responses...Willie
Posted by Mercedes on October 7, 2003, at 15:37:16
In reply to Re: joining the withdrawal thread, posted by Sufferfromeffexor on October 7, 2003, at 9:17:57
Me too. Get the electric shocks on any sudden noise. I just took a drink from my water bottel and after I set it down, it made a crakling noise and yep, the electric shock like needles coming out of my body affect. AND the worse part is I am also taking xanex and still get the shocks. I just don't know anymore. Not working, Can't work, can't think, feeling desperate.
Thanks for calling. Will you pls share the #.?
Just a FYI, as I know it, it's the manufactures like Wyeth that starts the process. They test it and then they have their sales people push it on to the PDocs, give them samples, etc. They, along with the Distribution co's get together and pay for the advertising of the drug. The pharmacies get rebates ($$) from the dist. co's., for every prescription they fill, the pharmacies pay the dr's a percent for every prescription they write. Everyone makes money and they are very happy. Well, my blurred vision is getting worse, better stop while I'm ahead.
Mercedes> I don't know who I am mad at anymore...or should I say most mad at...the manufacturer or the actual doc that prescribes it and doesn't fulfill his duties by monitoring you while you are on it??? Hmmmm! I did call Wyeth this morning and just as I figured, they couldn't give me any information. They said they don't know the exact mechanism that causes the electric shocks only that they assume it is the brain chemicles rebalancing themselves again. I asked specifically if there were reports of permanent damage from these and they told me no! Other than that I didn't learn anything knew and nothing enlightening. I hate not being able to get answers from people!
Posted by lioness on October 7, 2003, at 22:43:37
In reply to Re: joining the withdrawal thread » Sufferfromeffexor, posted by Mercedes on October 7, 2003, at 15:37:16
> Me too. Get the electric shocks on any sudden noise. I just took a drink from my water bottel and after I set it down, it made a crakling noise and yep, the electric shock like needles coming out of my body affect. AND the worse part is I am also taking xanex and still get the shocks. I just don't know anymore. Not working, Can't work, can't think, feeling desperate.
>
> Thanks for calling. Will you pls share the #.?
> Just a FYI, as I know it, it's the manufactures like Wyeth that starts the process. They test it and then they have their sales people push it on to the PDocs, give them samples, etc. They, along with the Distribution co's get together and pay for the advertising of the drug. The pharmacies get rebates ($$) from the dist. co's., for every prescription they fill, the pharmacies pay the dr's a percent for every prescription they write. Everyone makes money and they are very happy. Well, my blurred vision is getting worse, better stop while I'm ahead.
>
> Mercedes
>
> > I don't know who I am mad at anymore...or should I say most mad at...the manufacturer or the actual doc that prescribes it and doesn't fulfill his duties by monitoring you while you are on it??? Hmmmm! I did call Wyeth this morning and just as I figured, they couldn't give me any information. They said they don't know the exact mechanism that causes the electric shocks only that they assume it is the brain chemicles rebalancing themselves again. I asked specifically if there were reports of permanent damage from these and they told me no! Other than that I didn't learn anything knew and nothing enlightening. I hate not being able to get answers from people!
>
>
I started taking 10 mg of prozac to help me with the withdrawal symptoms and I no longer get the brain zaps. I am still on 75 mg of effexor, and because I have the flu, I will not wean until I feel better. Once in a while, I think I am going to get a brain zap, but it does not seem to happen. Hope this helps.
Lioness
Posted by loolot on October 8, 2003, at 9:26:17
In reply to Lawsuit Anyone?, posted by kcg33 on October 4, 2003, at 6:58:59
I hated effexor. Still having problems from the withdrawal , also.
That having been said, Im not sure lawsuits are the best way to go, simply because this drug is still helping a lot of people, and what if it was recalled and those people could no longer take it?
Thats how I feel about a lot of the dopaminergic ADs which have been recalled. Those drugs could have turned my life around.
I DO think we should try and force the makers of effexor to document the withdrawal and side effects in a more outright manner. They definitely are masking that stuff.
Posted by lioness on October 8, 2003, at 10:51:41
In reply to Re: Lawsuit Anyone?, posted by loolot on October 8, 2003, at 9:26:17
I agree with you, loolot. I know people who have had great success with effexor. I also know people who have taken it after chemotherapy to help eliminate some of the side effects from their treatment. Not everyone has the terrible withdrawal symptoms. I wish I had known before how difficult the weaning process COULD be. I am thankful to have found this board, as I no longer feel crazy from my symptoms.
Posted by Salty_Dog on October 8, 2003, at 11:52:22
In reply to Re: Lawsuit Anyone?, posted by loolot on October 8, 2003, at 9:26:17
I don't mean to be an a*&$#@, but the manufacture has specific indications for stopping Efexor-XR printed in the product information sheet found in the bottle. The Pharmacist is responsible for consuling the patient about the side-effects of both starting and stopping any medication they give the patient. Here it is in print:
Discontinuation of EFEXOR-XR: Discontinuation symptoms have been assessed both in patients with depression and in those with anxiety. Abrupt discontinuation, dose reduction, or tapering of venlafaxine at various doses has been found to be associated with the appearance of new symptoms, the frequency of which increased with increased dose level and with longer duration of treatment. Symptoms reported included agitation, anxiety, confusion, dry mouth, fatigue, paresthesias, vertigo, hypomania, nausea, vomiting, dizziness, headache, diarrhoea, sleep disturbance, insomnia, sweating and nervousness. Where such symptoms occurred, they were usually self-limiting, but in a few patients lasted for several weeks. Discontinuation effects are well known to occur with antidepressants. There is also a report of a withdrawal syndrome, confirmed by two challenges in a 32 year old woman who had received venlafaxine 300 mg daily for 8 months. It is therefore recommended that the dosage of EFEXOR-XR be tapered gradually and the patient monitored. The period required for discontinuation may depend on the dose, duration of therapy and the individual patient (See DOSAGE AND ADMINISTRATION).
None of the Medical professionals seem to have the time or interest in thoroughly reading the manufactures info.
The Pharmacist who fills the prescription has been trained to consult patients on all aspects of the medications they dispense. They see more of the side-effects and deal with more prescriptions for any given product than any Dr.
I think you need to chose your Pharmacist very carefully and ask questions when a new prescription is filled.
Posted by BJL on October 8, 2003, at 11:59:57
In reply to Re: Lawsuit Anyone?, posted by Salty_Dog on October 8, 2003, at 11:52:22
I guess I'm still stuck on the fact that the lowest dose is 37.5 mg, and it really requires lower doses to avoid withdrawals. We shouldn't have to "break pills" to get lower doses. It should be provided. Every post that I have seen has people going off of Effexor 37.5. Some are on that dose for months, some weeks, and even some for just days before quitting. Pretty much all of these people have intense withdrawals. When is the manufacturer going to disburse smaller doses? I think it's essential!
Posted by Salty_Dog on October 8, 2003, at 12:30:20
In reply to Re: joining the withdrawal thread, posted by Sufferfromeffexor on October 7, 2003, at 9:17:57
I think a more tolerable method of withdrawl is to tapper down in 4-7 day steps (no more than a 75 mg reduction) and when you are confortable with stopping, spread out the time between doses from 24 hours to ~36 hours, ~48 hours and finally ~72 hours, making the changes when you feel confortable and be willing to step up again if it becomes too much. This method should give the brain time to adjust it's own production of neurotransmitters.
As I have read in past postings, many people are jumping off after tappering down and having bad side effects.Instead of putting blame on various Profesionals, the focus should be on what has worked for others. I keep reading postings where everyone is encouring some unfortunate sole to be "on the wagon" which could spell disaster.
In the old days when an Alcoholic needed to stop drinking, AA members (working in pairs - same sex) would 12 step the indivigual and would carry a pint of vodka to assist the indivigual in detoxing. One or two shots would be given when certain physical manifestions occured. Alcoholics can not be detoxed without close monitoring. Currently some patients have to be given valuim to stop seizures which could be fatal.
Currently, none of the Detox centers I know of will assist a person who is trying to stop Efexor, which is a crying shame. The Detox centers can not get money from the insurance carrier and the Detox centers are not always trained for AD withdrawl. I have come across a few which realy know how to help patients stop taking a wide range of drugs, but it still comes down to money.
Posted by lioness on October 8, 2003, at 12:45:26
In reply to Re: Lawsuit Anyone?, posted by BJL on October 8, 2003, at 11:59:57
You can get a 25 mg tablet of effexor. It is not extened release, but you can break them in smaller pieces as you taper off. That is what my doctor and I plan to do, as I need to titrate down VERY slowly.
Posted by djmmm on October 8, 2003, at 13:13:04
In reply to Lawsuit Anyone?, posted by kcg33 on October 4, 2003, at 6:58:59
> Working on this, as soon as I have the name of the firm and the number to give you, I will post it.
>
> BJL, Lioness and Mercedes, my thoughts EXACTLY. No energy, low metabolism, night sweats, MIGRAINES, sensitivity to the sun, visual problems, and no sex drive whatsoever. And this is just while TAKING the drug - and the horror quadruples when you try to get off of it! There will be Liberty and Justice for All in the end.
Unfortunately all of those side-effects are listed in Effexor's monograph, so (again unfortunately) a lawsuit based on side-effects published and provided by Wyeth Ayerst with the medication is unlikely to hold up in any court.
Posted by kcg33 on October 8, 2003, at 13:34:37
In reply to Re: Lawsuit Anyone?, posted by djmmm on October 8, 2003, at 13:13:04
You are probably right, although, I PERSONALLY did not receive any warnings, no cute little piece of paper with the prescription bottle, not even a sticky note on the bottle itself describing any effects whatsoever, however, as time-consuming as it would be to find enough people who feel the way I do about this situation, I would gladly just be happy to settle with getting off and away from this medication and feeling normal again.
Posted by Sufferfromeffexor on October 8, 2003, at 15:36:41
In reply to Re: Lawsuit Anyone?, posted by Salty_Dog on October 8, 2003, at 11:52:22
Where such symptoms occurred, they were usually self-limiting, but in a few patients lasted for several weeks. HAHAHAHA can I laugh at that?? A FEW patients and SEVERAL weeks, I think not. I am personally only running into all these people that keep asking the same question I do...how long will this last and responses aren't a couple of weeks. First of all, if I have read right, I don't think this was even enforced until the year 2000...I was on this for much longer than that-where was my warning than???? Where was my warning when I first took the drug???? I don't mean to be rude either but I think that is crap. Secondly, and I know I will get backlash for this, but who really reads these warnings??? They are printed on everything (including vitamins etc...) but the chances of getting a bad reation to something common may be few and far between...I seem to think that these happen QUITE more frequently than the manufacturers let people believe, why do they hide it? I agree that the docs are quite responsible when they start prescribing this crap and aren't educating their patients but I don't know if I could blame a pharmacists who is only filling a prescription and doesn't know the customer from anything. Sure they could answer questions, but are they gonna really put out huge warnings? I doubt it. I don't mean to wish to argue with anyone on this board, I really don't...it is just this gets me so worked up, especially because I am living the withdrawals as we speak and have been doing so for the past 11 days.
> I don't mean to be an a*&$#@, but the manufacture has specific indications for stopping Efexor-XR printed in the product information sheet found in the bottle. The Pharmacist is responsible for consuling the patient about the side-effects of both starting and stopping any medication they give the patient. Here it is in print:
>
> Discontinuation of EFEXOR-XR: Discontinuation symptoms have been assessed both in patients with depression and in those with anxiety. Abrupt discontinuation, dose reduction, or tapering of venlafaxine at various doses has been found to be associated with the appearance of new symptoms, the frequency of which increased with increased dose level and with longer duration of treatment. Symptoms reported included agitation, anxiety, confusion, dry mouth, fatigue, paresthesias, vertigo, hypomania, nausea, vomiting, dizziness, headache, diarrhoea, sleep disturbance, insomnia, sweating and nervousness. Where such symptoms occurred, they were usually self-limiting, but in a few patients lasted for several weeks. Discontinuation effects are well known to occur with antidepressants. There is also a report of a withdrawal syndrome, confirmed by two challenges in a 32 year old woman who had received venlafaxine 300 mg daily for 8 months. It is therefore recommended that the dosage of EFEXOR-XR be tapered gradually and the patient monitored. The period required for discontinuation may depend on the dose, duration of therapy and the individual patient (See DOSAGE AND ADMINISTRATION).
>
> None of the Medical professionals seem to have the time or interest in thoroughly reading the manufactures info.
>
> The Pharmacist who fills the prescription has been trained to consult patients on all aspects of the medications they dispense. They see more of the side-effects and deal with more prescriptions for any given product than any Dr.
>
> I think you need to chose your Pharmacist very carefully and ask questions when a new prescription is filled.
Posted by Sufferfromeffexor on October 8, 2003, at 15:46:38
In reply to You are probably right, posted by kcg33 on October 8, 2003, at 13:34:37
What about the people that took this medication before the year 2000??? Correct me if I am wrong, please...but I thought I read on the FDA website that it wasn't enforced for them to put these fancy pamphlets in the cute little paper bags that the prescription comes in until around Feb. 2000? Also, I am concerned with the lack of emphasis on these warnings. They have them listed, just as a gallon of milk would list, yet there are so many signs that these withdrawals happen WAY more frequently than they make it seem. That is what concerns me. I know it is our own fault if we don't take head to the pretty little warning, but in todays society who has the time and energy to worry about those warnings (because I believe most are put on there based on very FEW cases)...but with Effexo I don't believe it to be that rare...why can't they just say more than likely you WILL experience dreadful withdrawals? Why can't they say that...oh maybe because someone might actually think twice about taking it if they knew the real warning? Just my opinion of course.
> You are probably right, although, I PERSONALLY did not receive any warnings, no cute little piece of paper with the prescription bottle, not even a sticky note on the bottle itself describing any effects whatsoever, however, as time-consuming as it would be to find enough people who feel the way I do about this situation, I would gladly just be happy to settle with getting off and away from this medication and feeling normal again.
Posted by loolot on October 8, 2003, at 17:23:04
In reply to Re: Lawsuit Anyone?, posted by Salty_Dog on October 8, 2003, at 11:52:22
> None of the Medical professionals seem to have the time or interest in thoroughly reading the manufactures info.>>Yeah, I agree. I actually think Doctors need to read these things. Pharmacists are too damn busy and am too embarassed to talk to them about meds sometimes. DOCTORS need top tell us this outright
Posted by lioness on October 8, 2003, at 17:49:12
In reply to Re: Lawsuit Anyone?, posted by loolot on October 8, 2003, at 17:23:04
I think what I have learned from this whole experience is that I need to ask more questions. I never thought to ask about possible side effects ( although I tend to get all the adverse effects of medications!). I will not forget from now on!
Posted by kcg33 on October 8, 2003, at 18:15:44
In reply to Re: You are probably right, posted by Sufferfromeffexor on October 8, 2003, at 15:46:38
What about the people that took this medication before the year 2000??? Correct me if I am wrong, please...but I thought I read on the FDA website that it wasn't enforced for them to put these fancy pamphlets in the cute little paper bags that the prescription comes in until around Feb. 2000? Also, I am concerned with the lack of emphasis on these warnings. They have them listed, just as a gallon of milk would list, yet there are so many signs that these withdrawals happen WAY more frequently than they make it seem. That is what concerns me. I know it is our own fault if we don't take head to the pretty little warning, but in todays society who has the time and energy to worry about those warnings (because I believe most are put on there based on very FEW cases)...but with Effexo I don't believe it to be that rare...why can't they just say more than likely you WILL experience dreadful withdrawals? Why can't they say that...oh maybe because someone might actually think twice about taking it if they knew the real warning? Just my opinion of course.
SufferfromEffexor: I totally agree with you. I don't believe there is any room for doubt for anyone that reads these posts how I feel about this situation. I will continue to make my case against Wyeth. I recognize that not all folks agree with me, and that is okay, because everyone is entitled to their own opinion in things. The only pharmacy that I have ever been to that actually places a slip of paper in the bag with the medication bottle is Walmart. Otherwise, both of the local pharmacies here do not do that. My pill bottle was a regular brown prescription bottle with a label taped to the side that said "Take one pill daily". That's all I had to go by. I had no warning, no advice, no counsel from my pharmacist, my doctor, NOBODY.
From the number of signatures on the Petition against Wyeth already in progress, (well over 3500 at this point), I would say I am not the only person outraged by this lack of counsel.
It is not and never was a desire of mine to get rich from this misery, my purpose in bringing a complaint to Wyeth is simply to force them into making the effects of this drug known. There are several ways this could be done, first of all, they could sell the drug only in the original bottles as some name brand drugs are sold, which have the little "piece of paper" inside instead of allowing the pharmacists to package scripts in the brown bottles and not counsel on the effects. The FDA could play a better role here by making it mandatory that to dispense this drug, any doctor or pharmacist should counsel the patient on the side effects before the script is filled.
Oh, by the way, did I mention that when FDA approved this drug, according to their study, the test consisted of a little over 300 people in one group and about 280 people in the placebo group? From this test, they decided they had all the side effects figured out and passed the drug through FDA approval. Now years later, we are all telling them that their little "study" was somewhat OFF, but there is still not movement toward a new study or warning people that there are many more side effects, and some pretty severe, than their handouts discuss.
This whole thing enrages me just as it does you and many other people out there. I personally feel like with all medications come some small percentage of adverse reactions in a very small number of people, but when the adverse reactions are the rule and not the exception in the greater majority of people taking a medication, it seems to me to beg the question "What's wrong here?"
My life in hell with Effexor has written my opinion of it in stone.
k
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