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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Momof1BPKid on September 28, 2003, at 14:01:04
In reply to Re: Abilify- worth another try?, posted by Sebastian on September 28, 2003, at 13:54:19
I worry about that I had a friend who took zyban to quit smoking (wellbutrin) and did well for about 8 months. she stopped smoking during that time quit the zyban. She started smoking again a while later and restarted the zyban and had a few seizures after starting back up.
My son had an ekg, and his heart was fine, but I still didnt want to put him on the Geodon, he rough houses alot with kids and I worry he will get long qt syndrome that sometimes you read about a football player dropping dead from with one minor blow to the chest.
My son also had an eeg but no seizure activity, but again sometimes he gets into these rages that seem like seizure activity. I have history of epilepsy in my sibling as well. So that is a bit scary for me.
> I've never heard much about histamine blockers. I don't think there is much on this sit about them either. Usualy with wellbutrin you will know on the first dose or very shortly after about seizures. I didn't try the geodon because of faital heart beat death, and the twice a day dosing with tiredness mid day.
Posted by Sebastian on September 28, 2003, at 14:02:53
In reply to Re: Abilify- worth another try?, posted by Momof1BPKid on September 28, 2003, at 13:43:27
Thats what happend for me, Depakote. It helped for a short time but weight was bad. That was anouther drug I was happy to lose. My doctor also didn't think it was doing much. I took it for a year. The effects were not favorable to me. When I went back to just zyprexa I remember wanting to lose some weight, but got influenced by my girlfried not to? Incourage him, this is how I started the weight loss. When I only took the zyprexa and celexa, befor welbutrin. the welbutrin made it easyer to keep off, it stimulates you out of lazyness, I go to the gum lots.
Posted by Sebastian on September 28, 2003, at 14:10:52
In reply to Re: Abilify- worth another try?, posted by Momof1BPKid on September 28, 2003, at 14:01:04
What kind of rages, what does he do? I direct the rageful energy out at the gum with very intense work outs. Some times I over do it and only get a energy reduction effect especialy if I don't drink enough water, but not a seisure, maybe dizzy. I have no history of heart problem, just totaly trust the zyprexa and find it most benificial, thats what I decided after the abilify, nothing else will work. so I didn't even try geodon.
Posted by Momof1BPKid on September 28, 2003, at 14:17:25
In reply to Re: Abilify- worth another try?, posted by Sebastian on September 28, 2003, at 14:10:52
He gets destructive, but he is much better now at kicking cardboard boxes and putting it into the places where it doesnt harm as much. He used to do things that would damage the house like kick holes in walls and things like that, that hasnt happened in a good while, he is much better about it. He definately gets exercise the other kids somtimes cant keep up with him, but he gets tired alot quicker. He has a quick temper which gets him in trouble with people. If someone starts something he might talk alot of crap and push them, but his bark is often worse than his bite. but it gets him in alot of trouble.
> What kind of rages, what does he do? I direct the rageful energy out at the gum with very intense work outs. Some times I over do it and only get a energy reduction effect especialy if I don't drink enough water, but not a seisure, maybe dizzy. I have no history of heart problem, just totaly trust the zyprexa and find it most benificial, thats what I decided after the abilify, nothing else will work. so I didn't even try geodon.
Posted by Sebastian on September 28, 2003, at 14:19:04
In reply to Re: Abilify- worth another try?, posted by Momof1BPKid on September 28, 2003, at 14:01:04
My diagnosis is PTSD, anxiety, and depresion. The anti-depresants didn't work till he died. Just thought I would give some back ground.
Posted by Momof1BPKid on September 28, 2003, at 14:26:08
In reply to Re: Abilify- worth another try?, posted by Sebastian on September 28, 2003, at 14:19:04
Thanks!
My son was hyper from day one, very early motor skills very good motor skills. sort of adhdish from birth. but very very smart verbally as well. He had aggressive behavior from a very early age.
He seems to be doing alot better, but noone would ever diagnose him. Or they said "he is fine" for years until he started getting into lots of fights in school. He has met criteria as I stated
for BP NOS, ADHD, OCD, TOURETTES. and now they say he is very oppositional.
Thing is tho he never met his dad. sometimes I think a good male role model would change his life.
> My diagnosis is PTSD, anxiety, and depresion. The anti-depresants didn't work till he died. Just thought I would give some back ground.
Posted by Sebastian on September 28, 2003, at 14:28:02
In reply to Re: Abilify- worth another try?, posted by Momof1BPKid on September 28, 2003, at 14:17:25
How old is he? sounds like a teenager. When I entered psychoses, I punched holes in the wall instead of my dad. This may have been befor diagnosis. You may try a extra 2.5 mg zyprexa when he is particulary destructive, take it any time of day and you will instantly become less enegised. I found 2-100 mg wellbutrins most positive, not too much energy and least likely to get side-effects. Also less likely to have seizures. I was less likely to talk crap with more zyprexa than less. 10 mg worked very well for years, no crap. When he calms in more years to come, try less.
Posted by Momof1BPKid on September 28, 2003, at 14:36:52
In reply to Re: Abilify- worth another try?, posted by Sebastian on September 28, 2003, at 14:28:02
He just turned 12,he is big for his age. and starting to grow through puberty.
The extra zyprexa sounds good. Why did you want to hit your dad? is that too personal?
Im just trying to see if maybe there is something angering him that I can help him with.
it might be too personal. do you have aol im or yahoo?if you feel like talking?
> How old is he? sounds like a teenager. When I entered psychoses, I punched holes in the wall instead of my dad. This may have been befor diagnosis. You may try a extra 2.5 mg zyprexa when he is particulary destructive, take it any time of day and you will instantly become less enegised. I found 2-100 mg wellbutrins most positive, not too much energy and least likely to get side-effects. Also less likely to have seizures. I was less likely to talk crap with more zyprexa than less. 10 mg worked very well for years, no crap. When he calms in more years to come, try less.
Posted by Lazarus on September 28, 2003, at 14:37:42
In reply to Abilify- worth another try?, posted by Momof1BPKid on September 28, 2003, at 2:52:37
Thank you for writing the post. Others can help you.
I have Bipolar Disorder, Type II, Rapid Cycling. I was diagnosed in 1987 so I have a lot of knowledge about BP disorder.
The best medication for BP is LITHIUM. Your son should probably be taking 900 mg daily (300 mg, 3x daily). Lithium works like oil does on an airplane motor. It lubricates it and keeps it running well. All other medications only treat the symptoms of BP disorder.
Only when lithium doesn't work should other medications be tried. I supplement lithium with Zyprexa, 1.25 mg at night (I was taking 2.5 mg nightly). I also take Abilify, 2.5 mg in the morning. Abilify can cause excitability and insomnia, so always take it in the am. 2.5 mg is a very low dose; for me that is all that is required. Possibly your son was put on a dosage of Abilify that was too high. Yes, it's difficult to cut the small pills up properly, but the effort is worth it.
I am so sorrry that you are going through this right now. I know that you love your son dearly.
Lazarus
Posted by Sebastian on September 28, 2003, at 14:38:46
In reply to Re: Abilify- worth another try?, posted by Momof1BPKid on September 28, 2003, at 14:26:08
I think a good true friend would help him. I grew up with a lot of fatherless freinds. They just want to know how to think like men. Keep him on the meds, they will probably keep him out of fights more, like the zyprexa, its very sedating. An anti-depresant and anti-anxiety. It helps with most of the ones you mentioned. It is also one of the better meds out there, most perscribed; no I don't work for Lilly but strongly belive in the drug. It might help to tell him about his dad, what he was like.
Posted by Sebastian on September 28, 2003, at 14:45:18
In reply to Re: Abilify- worth another try?, posted by Momof1BPKid on September 28, 2003, at 14:36:52
This sit is fine! I've said just about everything on here about myself, just not my name. I was angry at him, I don't remember why, a lot of times I got mad at him because of something he had done or didn't do or said or we just didn't agree. Like when he put me in the hospital or didn't under stand my condition or how I droped out of college the first time. Teenage years I didn't like my parents much, we didn't get along, I was into drugs, drinking, smoking, and not going to school, or working. I always wanted to punch him when we didn't have an understanding, but I would redirect the anger at the wall.
Posted by Momof1BPKid on September 28, 2003, at 14:51:03
In reply to Re: Abilify- worth another try?, posted by Lazarus on September 28, 2003, at 14:37:42
Lazarus,
Thanks for your help and concern, Yes I love him dearly. his pdoc tells him everytime, that "your mom is so very patient and loves you so very much to help you this much" I guess I just think thats what moms are supposed to do, although i get very very frustrated and jump when the phone rings it has caused me severe anxiety and depression trying to help him.His doc never ever mentioned lithium at all. Does it require blood monitoring? I am guessing that is why cause he tries to keep away from any meds that require blood monitoring. He is now on depakote after failure with trileptal. His doc is not a "new doc" he is an older gentleman, at Mclean hospital for a number of years. He had one other doc who was very "old fashioned" with bp he is the one who put him on the depakote actually and he didnt even know what zyprexa was.
> Thank you for writing the post. Others can help you.
>
> I have Bipolar Disorder, Type II, Rapid Cycling. I was diagnosed in 1987 so I have a lot of knowledge about BP disorder.
>
> The best medication for BP is LITHIUM. Your son should probably be taking 900 mg daily (300 mg, 3x daily). Lithium works like oil does on an airplane motor. It lubricates it and keeps it running well. All other medications only treat the symptoms of BP disorder.
>
> Only when lithium doesn't work should other medications be tried. I supplement lithium with Zyprexa, 1.25 mg at night (I was taking 2.5 mg nightly). I also take Abilify, 2.5 mg in the morning. Abilify can cause excitability and insomnia, so always take it in the am. 2.5 mg is a very low dose; for me that is all that is required. Possibly your son was put on a dosage of Abilify that was too high. Yes, it's difficult to cut the small pills up properly, but the effort is worth it.
>
> I am so sorrry that you are going through this right now. I know that you love your son dearly.
>
> Lazarus
>
Posted by Momof1BPKid on September 28, 2003, at 14:56:31
In reply to Re: Abilify- worth another try?, posted by Sebastian on September 28, 2003, at 14:45:18
MY SON IS LIKE THAT WITH ME! sometimes He gets soo mad at me. but at the same time he has this very very affectionate moments towards me.
do i have to die before he can get better?!?! I try to understand his condition, i hospitalized him once . once was enough to see everyone in there treated him like shit. I was not happy. I only did it cause he got very aggressive with me.
He just had a severe manic episode, he really should have been hospitalized, i said no way. i can take care of him at home and hug him alot.
But what things do you think wouldve helped you with your dad? what could your dad have done to make things better? Maybe I can learn to be a better mom to him from your experience. Maybe you can tell me what you would have wanted from your Dad and maybe I can try to work that into my relationship with my son. It would be so helpful!
This sit is fine! I've said just about everything on here about myself, just not my name. I was angry at him, I don't remember why, a lot of times I got mad at him because of something he had done or didn't do or said or we just didn't agree. Like when he put me in the hospital or didn't under stand my condition or how I droped out of college the first time. Teenage years I didn't like my parents much, we didn't get along, I was into drugs, drinking, smoking, and not going to school, or working. I always wanted to punch him when we didn't have an understanding, but I would redirect the anger at the wall.
Posted by Sebastian on September 28, 2003, at 14:56:51
In reply to Re: Abilify- worth another try?, posted by Momof1BPKid on September 28, 2003, at 14:51:03
Sounds like he already has enough energy and should try a higher dose of zyprexa. I think I would wait on the ADHD unless that is a definant. They thought I may have had ADD in the beginning but wern't shur, they kept me on zyprexa and I was doing fine when I dicided to go back to school and left the ADD thing alone.
Posted by Sebastian on September 28, 2003, at 15:10:38
In reply to Re: Abilify- worth another try?, posted by Momof1BPKid on September 28, 2003, at 14:56:31
Just keep loving him. The way he should be. Put him in the hospital and visit every day, he may be mad but less harmfull. Make sure he see the doctor regularly, and gets treatment. He doesn't have a dad so he puts it all on you. He's probably prity upset and feeling unloved. You may have to wait till he gets through the teenage years, thats the hard part. I was in the hospital 3 times, thought my parents hated me. ECT, lots is what it took for me.
Be tough on him, tough love. I didn't like my dad then, so he couldn't have done anything. Unless more understanding, which probably wouldn't have been a good thing at the time. Set the rules stick to them, tell him the alternatives, scare him. My parents through me out of the house for 3 months to get me back in school at 17. Threatened doctors when I didn't respond to meds.
Posted by Sebastian on September 28, 2003, at 15:31:11
In reply to Re: Abilify- worth another try?, posted by Momof1BPKid on September 28, 2003, at 14:56:31
I hated my parents I was a rebelious teenager who got in with the wrong croud, drugs, wanted to do my own things, grow up on my own, be cool, party, make money selling drugs, steeling. Didn't like authority, police. School was no fun. Girls were. My friends were more fun; my age. Drink beer, loved it. I grew up when it all feel apart, my freinds got blown up and I started taking life more seriously. Went back to school and realy tried for a change. Then I got depressed and psychotic, went to the hospital. This is when I was getting back into drugs, they made my brain sick, just smoking pot and drinking. For the next few years I got heavyer into drugs and drinking till I turned 25 and decided to go back to school. I was trying to paint a good image of my self after the accident, but deteriorating myself. Untill I realized life just wasn't getting better. And the drugs were not making me happy anymore. Wanted to get healty and get over the forever ongoing mental illness.
Posted by Sebastian on September 28, 2003, at 15:39:26
In reply to Re: Abilify- worth another try?, posted by Momof1BPKid on September 28, 2003, at 14:56:31
When I was younger I had been diagnosed with a learning disability in reading and writing. I've always been quiet and shy.
Posted by cybercafe on September 28, 2003, at 16:00:06
In reply to Re: Abilify- worth another try?, posted by Momof1BPKid on September 28, 2003, at 12:16:58
> He started him 15mg of abilify.
wow, i would not want to start on 15 mg of abilify... i started on 4 mg, and only just now, after being on it for 3 weeks or so, has the restlessness gone away
> one night at that dose was awful for him.
> And His doctor tells me I can not cut zyprexa in half, that when the air gets to it , it is no good anymore.that's true... i called the drug company.. .and apparently after you cut the tabs you have at LEAST a week or two to use them ... so yes you can cut them, just use them up soon (or better yet, call the drug company... eli lilly and ask them yourself just to be sure... )
> He is a difficult case, and has had past history of motor tics (before even starting meds) has adhd symptoms and ocd symptoms as well as high anxiety, depression and lots of aggression (sometimes i
yeah i'm mainly bp1 + adhd + anxiety, plus i tenhd to oversleep, that is why i wanted to try abilify, to help with both adhd and bp1 and get my butt out of bed
> I just need to find the right mix for him, I wish there were one or 2 good meds that would help everything for him to be able to function well. Although zyprexa has been the best yet, the sleep and weight gain has been awful.i think sebastian had some good advice regarding the sleep and weight gain .....
i've been through it myself (only taking 5 mg though), and i know sleeping all day is quite a high price to pay> I have tried so much to help him including neurofeedback (eeg) have you heard of this? its supposed to retrain the brain, some find it very controversial and question whether it actually works, me I think it has to do something, there were times he went into a neurofeedback session and came out as restless as he was on the abilify.
there are all sorts of things you can try.... for me, meds were probably the best, though i never had much access to counselling
Posted by cybercafe on September 28, 2003, at 16:08:38
In reply to Re: Abilify- worth another try?, posted by Momof1BPKid on September 28, 2003, at 13:21:14
i think abilify is actually making me calmer now that i've gotten used to it a bit
when you read stuff about wellbutrin and stims etc causing anxiety etc remember that that is for the average user.... for people with adhd, the increased stimulation is supposed to have a calming effect..... your doctor has probably mentioned this?
ummm... when i take stims even thoughthey might make me a *little* more socially anxious sometimes, they *definately* help me stay calm, sit still, wait for buses (AARRGG!), drive at the speed limit, etc
> wow great for you, you sound like my son with the zyprexa its the only med he does well on. I think he really does better on 7.5 or 10. He is 174 lbs and on 5mg at bedtime. His doc once mentioned wellbutrin in the past, but that was long ago when he was on paxil. I am wondering if he even needs the depakote and if he could just use the zyprexa and topamax. I am glad your doing well. I always though wellbutrin might work for him, But I get nervous with the wellbutrin stuff I read online sometimes.
> I thought it might work for him I was alot like him when I was younger(not as severe though) and I smoked, still do, the nicotine somehow helps me (although I am trying to quit) Wellbutrin is the same thing as zyban (a quit smoking pill) which sometimes make me think it might do something to the part of his brain he needs help with. although he never tried it. Im glad you did well in college! My son has a very high IQ. He gets A's in school, but his behavior is what causes his problems for him.
>
>
> > I'm one of thouse people who has a text book response to zyprexa; 5 years now. It works best for me with wellbutrin, 5 mg zyprexa user should take 2-100 mg wellbutrin SR s a day. Thats what I do now, I don't have the weight problem anymore. I had gained from 150 up to 230. Now I weigh 170. I've been taking WB for 6 months now. Zyprexa is about the only thing for anxiety, and I find once used to it you can have a hard time stoping it suddenly. Problems like anxiety and not eating if you take it long enough. You can stop taking it gradualy. I did find my most clear thinking on zyprexa, almost better than ever. thats why I was haveing a very hard time stoping it. I just graduated college with a 3.96.
>
>
Posted by Momof1BPKid on September 28, 2003, at 16:10:19
In reply to Re: Abilify- worth another try?, posted by Sebastian on September 28, 2003, at 15:39:26
WOW SEBASTIAN read all your posts. I hope I can help him, he is difficult. I hope he doesnt go down the wrong path, he seems like a pretty good kid when he can control himself. I think his high IQ does help him in the right vs wrong thing, cause he really has a phobia of drugs and death and things like that. It was nice to hear your story and I am so glad you are doing well now!
That is what counts is that you are getting through it now and the past is over!> When I was younger I had been diagnosed with a learning disability in reading and writing. I've always been quiet and shy.
Posted by Momof1BPKid on September 28, 2003, at 16:12:59
In reply to Re: Abilify- worth another try?, posted by cybercafe on September 28, 2003, at 16:08:38
Cybercafe,
were you ever on zyprexa? and if so what dosage?
I am wondering if i should try cutting the abilify in half and seeing how he does on it after a couple of weeks, of course this might make for a good school vacation project rather than do it while he is having to go to school in case he reacts not so well.
> i think abilify is actually making me calmer now that i've gotten used to it a bit
>
> when you read stuff about wellbutrin and stims etc causing anxiety etc remember that that is for the average user.... for people with adhd, the increased stimulation is supposed to have a calming effect..... your doctor has probably mentioned this?
>
> ummm... when i take stims even thoughthey might make me a *little* more socially anxious sometimes, they *definately* help me stay calm, sit still, wait for buses (AARRGG!), drive at the speed limit, etc
>
> > wow great for you, you sound like my son with the zyprexa its the only med he does well on. I think he really does better on 7.5 or 10. He is 174 lbs and on 5mg at bedtime. His doc once mentioned wellbutrin in the past, but that was long ago when he was on paxil. I am wondering if he even needs the depakote and if he could just use the zyprexa and topamax. I am glad your doing well. I always though wellbutrin might work for him, But I get nervous with the wellbutrin stuff I read online sometimes.
> > I thought it might work for him I was alot like him when I was younger(not as severe though) and I smoked, still do, the nicotine somehow helps me (although I am trying to quit) Wellbutrin is the same thing as zyban (a quit smoking pill) which sometimes make me think it might do something to the part of his brain he needs help with. although he never tried it. Im glad you did well in college! My son has a very high IQ. He gets A's in school, but his behavior is what causes his problems for him.
> >
> >
> > > I'm one of thouse people who has a text book response to zyprexa; 5 years now. It works best for me with wellbutrin, 5 mg zyprexa user should take 2-100 mg wellbutrin SR s a day. Thats what I do now, I don't have the weight problem anymore. I had gained from 150 up to 230. Now I weigh 170. I've been taking WB for 6 months now. Zyprexa is about the only thing for anxiety, and I find once used to it you can have a hard time stoping it suddenly. Problems like anxiety and not eating if you take it long enough. You can stop taking it gradualy. I did find my most clear thinking on zyprexa, almost better than ever. thats why I was haveing a very hard time stoping it. I just graduated college with a 3.96.
> >
> >
>
>
Posted by cybercafe on September 28, 2003, at 16:29:43
In reply to Re: Abilify- worth another try?, posted by Momof1BPKid on September 28, 2003, at 16:12:59
> Cybercafe,
>
> were you ever on zyprexa? and if so what dosage?yep... i was on 5 mg and then reduced to 2.5 mg
it controlled by bipolar alone... (i used to get euphoric feelings on a daily basis) very good drug, very small dose
before that the only thing i tried for bipolar was depakote and i took a huge dose and still experienced euphoria/depression on a daily basisnow i take 3.75 mg of abilify and it is the best of all, small dose, mood stable, doesn't worsen ADHD too much (weak binding to D4) ... and it helps with my hypersomnia (oversleeping).... but then it's only been 2 or 3 weeks so maybe it's too early to sing the praises of this med
> I am wondering if i should try cutting the abilify in half and seeing how he does on it after a couple of weeks, of course this might make for a good school vacation project rather than do it while he is having to go to school in case he reacts not so well.why half? why not quarters or eighths? start out with something that is guaranteed not to worsen things (say eighths) if that has absolutely no bad side effect, try going up to quarters after a few days... ummm.. Lazarus only takes a quarter of a 10 mg tablet and apparently it makes a difference....
like they say "start low, go slow" ....
if a quarter of a pill is really difficult for him, backup, go back to an eighth ... it's better to go slow and easy and avoid this suffering then to rush things right?? especially when rushing things means you might get too frustrated and end up giving up on a potentially good medon the other hand, there mighrt be other options...
sebastian's idea of wellbutrin + zyprexa sounds pretty good to me
i also have a really high IQ (160?), had a lot of trouble in my early school years (almost got expelled) and with parents, but i didn't actually see a pdoc until i was 23 (due to really bad anxiety)
actually my bipolar was really obvious and my adhd was really obvious, but it took me 2 years to convince docs i was bipolar, and another 2 years to convince them i had ADHD ... ARRRRG
Posted by Sebastian on September 28, 2003, at 16:33:52
In reply to Re: Abilify- worth another try?, posted by cybercafe on September 28, 2003, at 16:29:43
How old are you now?
Posted by cybercafe on September 28, 2003, at 18:59:23
In reply to Re: Abilify- worth another try? » cybercafe, posted by Sebastian on September 28, 2003, at 16:33:52
> How old are you now?
28... but if any cute girls ask, 26
Posted by Sebastian on September 28, 2003, at 20:10:50
In reply to Re: Abilify- worth another try?, posted by cybercafe on September 28, 2003, at 18:59:23
Gee! and all along I thought you were early twenties.?
So where do you meet the girls? I almost spelled it wrong. Meet and then spelled.
My best spot so far is the gym, but not very good at going up to them?
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