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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 18 of 18. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by sharon miller on February 24, 2000, at 13:23:52
I want to know what the 4 amphetimine compounds are in this drug. I'm very appalled that anyone would prescribe such a powerful,addicting drug to anyone, much less children. I know that ADD and ADHD are significant disorders, but they are finding vision empairment as a link to this disorder. Before anyone jumps into this drug for their child, they should have their eyes checked. How can anything as strong as this drug, possibly be a safe thing to use? My nephew was on Ridalyn for 5 years, and when they had his eyes checked, got him glasses, they withdrew him from the medication. He is 12 years old now, and is functioning normally. The process of withdrawing him from the medication was amazing. To prevent him from going through a major withdrawal, and the side effects incurred, he was taken off slowly. It just made me sick to know that this young boy had to go through this unnecessary trauma because other alternatives weren't advised first. What I see with most parents, and school officials is that they see a child that is somewhat busy, and they immediately jump to the ADD diagnosis. Please people, wake up! Does every busy, curious child have to be hooked on unnecessary, habit forming drugs because this is the only approach available?
Posted by Noa on February 24, 2000, at 13:59:34
In reply to Adderol, posted by sharon miller on February 24, 2000, at 13:23:52
I agree that careful diagnosis is important, and that there are times when families, educators, or doctors jump right to treating a child with a stimulant without a proper evaluation. However, there seems to be equally as much anti-medication hysteria about children and ADD, and that hurts kids who need the treatment.
An appropriate eval always should include a thorough medical check up, including vision and hearing. In addition, screening should be done to rule out a learning disability, and if there are indications from the screening, a full psychoeducational assessment should be done. With or without the psych testing, observations from teachers and parents should be obtained, using a normed screening tool. It is important to get data from two or more reporters, as kids are different in different settings and with diffrerent folks. A thorough developmental history is taken from the parents, and any developmental, education, psych and health records should be reviewed. A clinical interview with the child, of course, should be done. Then, all the data is reviewed and a dx made. Unfortunately, it is rarely done this way. It is often done in a 15 minute doctor's visit at the pediatrician, with no input from the school or anyone else. What should happen is the pediatrician refers out to a child psychiatrist or other mental health professional, but most managed care companies put up disincentives for referring.
Still, there are many more undetected cases that need to be detected than there are false positives, even though I agree with you that this, too is a problem.
Posted by Janice on February 24, 2000, at 21:07:45
In reply to Adderol, posted by sharon miller on February 24, 2000, at 13:23:52
I imagine what happens, more often than this, is that most children go through the entire school system never being diagnosed with ADD.
Then they may end up like me, an adult with ADHD and a litany of other disorders as a direct consequence of not having had the ADD treated as a child.
Janice
Personally, I'd rather be the little boy with the glasses.
Posted by Noa on February 25, 2000, at 15:26:43
In reply to Re: Adderol, posted by Janice on February 24, 2000, at 21:07:45
> I imagine what happens, more often than this, is that most children go through the entire school system never being diagnosed with ADD.
>
Yup, Janice, I think there are lots of these. They aren't catching people's attention as much as the "false positives", tho. But have you seen the recent issue of US News and World Report? Talks about adults with ADD and LDs.
Posted by Janice on February 25, 2000, at 22:58:34
In reply to Re: Adderol, posted by Noa on February 25, 2000, at 15:26:43
No I haven't Noa, is it worth reading?
I'm wondering if you could answer a few questions about ADD for me. I am half assuming you work with ADD children Noa.
When I was in school I was very bright. I skipped 2 grades and was always in the gifted class. Then I continued on to get 2 degrees at university. I have also heard that many 'gifted students' have ADHD.
My mother never finished grade 8, which would be what most people would believe is more typical of ADHD.
My question: It seems to me that ADD either significantly helps or significantly hinders a young person in school? Is my uneducated guess correct? And if so, do you know how it does this?
My brother's friend's child has the very obvious type of ADHD, and I find that so many people have so many opinions on ADHD. I'm not expert, but most of what they say seems like nonsense to me.
It seems to me like many people get pissed off about someone's child getting diagnosed with ADHD. I guess I just don't understand the strength and depth of their reaction. I mean, it's nothing to them - but they all seem to have far too many opinions.
Any idea what's going on there?
Janice.
Posted by dove on February 26, 2000, at 9:49:21
In reply to Noa...Adderol, posted by Janice on February 25, 2000, at 22:58:34
I also struggle to understand outsiders reactions to ADHD. My daughter (one of five children) very obviously has all the symptoms of ADHD, and has been seeing a p-doc, a therapist, and a ped-doc, and yet, she still struggles with it. We have had so many problems with relatives, and every year, a new teacher with *their* theory on what needs to be done. We had one teacher who said that she had to be medicated because she was so disruptive. So, we work on finding something that will help all summer long. Hell of a summer. Return to school, and she's getting depressed everyday, she's been frustrated, crying, edgy, real negative feelings. I have been allowing her to take weekend holidays from the stimulants, and I know that they are no longer working just from watching her smile return Saturday morning.
We had a meeting with her teacher, school social worker, and therapist. They handed me a handful of papers, and explained the paperwork in very slow speech, some of us parents are apparently slow, or deaf. They had highlighted the many different points they wanted to stress to us, like we're ignorant and unable to read more than a paragraph. Anyway, to the point, all this paperwork, signed by all the school officials were about allergies, nutrition, vision therapy, sensory integration, ect...
I was seeing red, after all the meetings and hassle, these folks were trying to explain away a genetically bound heritage that has been passed down for over 200 years. They have no idea what the workings in her mind are, they can't even relate to what takes place on a daily basis. I was silent, looking at them, unable to believe the words shooting from their mouths. The hundreds of examples of children on restricted diets (no dairy and no wheat) and how the change was overnight. Yes, I'm sure it was, the kids were probably malnutritioned and delirious, calm indeed!
So, I tried to explain the situation from the inside, but all the degreed and highly educated folks just smiled and kept repeating their words. I give up, my husband wants her to be homeschooled, I don't know how to deal with it anymore. I hate the pressure that is put on her, grandparents always sneakily inquiring about her meds, her therapy, little snide comments. Always undermining her, her hope, her light at the end of the dark tunnel. Ughhh!!!
In summary, or to the point I guess, Adderall is no longer working for my daughter, the depression is hitting hard and heavy. For some peculiar reason, the Stimulants make her, and me both, depressed rather than happy. Even if we're getting things done and are able to concentrate, it's still pretty negative in contrast to our natural minds. Like we can't block out reality, instead, we can't avoid seeing reality and the stark contrast it is to everyone's shiny happy lives. It is hard to fight that view, that dire vision everyday.
And I am tired of outsiders and their panaceas that have no hold in the real world, but are aimless delusions. And, I don't care if the meds aren't working, that doesn't mean the problem is an allergy to cheerios!
Posted by CarolAnn on February 27, 2000, at 10:01:39
In reply to Re:..Adderall, posted by dove on February 26, 2000, at 9:49:21
Neither you or your daughter may realize it, but she is very lucky to have you for a mother. You can truly understand what she is going thru, and no matter how hard things get, an understanding parent is a gift to be treasured.
At 36 yrs old, I have suffered unrelieved depression most of my life and only recently discovered that I have also been suffering ADDw/o hyperactivity,(which explains *a lot* of childhood problems.). I was unfortuneate to have the kind of mother who's response to depression is, "why are you depressed, what have you got to be depressed about? Snap out of it!" And the real kicker, "just decide that you're not going to be depressed, and you won't be."
I was almost 30 before I realized that I could get outside "help". And, though I have come to terms with my mother(after two yrs of therapy), it still hurts that I don't have a mother who is willing to listen to my pain, let alone understand it. I know that your pain makes it hard for you to believe sometimes, but the fact is, *you* are a very good mother! Bless you! CarolAnn
Posted by Janice on February 27, 2000, at 16:46:21
In reply to Re:..Adderall, posted by dove on February 26, 2000, at 9:49:21
dove,
I'd love to be able to help, but we're basically asking the same questions. I cannot understand why, for the life of me, why so many people have so many strong opinions on this.
I don't know how old your little girl is, but I hope they don't start talking to her soon. The little boy I was telling you about is home schooled - now I think I know why.
dove, there is a very good pharmocolgist posting (Cam W). You may want to ask him about the stimulants depressing your little girl. I feel for her.
Janice
At the risk of sounding arrogant in my above post, what I was trying to say was:
I was a relatively bright student who believes that I was propelled into that 'gifted category' because of my ADHD.
If anyone knows if any connections have also been made between these two, I would love to hear.
Also sharon, if you are following this post, I agree with what you said. However, it reminded me of these other people I heard talking about my brother's friend child. Janice
Posted by Gameiplay on March 28, 2003, at 13:08:13
In reply to Adderol, posted by sharon miller on February 24, 2000, at 13:23:52
I am SO SICK of some people judging parents who decide to use medications to HELP their SUFFERING CHILDREN!!! That's right, I said ADD/ADHD children SUFFER. They live lonely, isolated lives full of disappointment, rejection, being diciplined repeatedly. The family suffers too, the stares, the isolation, the GUILT. Every decision a parent makes for their child seems to bring about MORE GUILT. Guilt if you do something, guilt if you don't. Everywhere you turn, there is another self-appointed "EXPERT" to tell you "exactly what you are doing wrong."
You have no idea what it is like to be the parent of a child with ADD/ADHD. What makes you such an expert? I wonder how you would feel if my un-medicated son lashed out at your "perfect little dear" in the grocery store? What if he hit your husband in the crotch while walking through Blockbuster Video? What if he shoved your child on the soccer field because he was to "wired up" to pay attention to the game?
How is he supposed to learn (even in homeschool) when he hops out of his seat every 3 seconds...no exaggeration???
My son has ADHD symptoms and has just about destroyed our lives. I am an RN (recently retired at the ripe old age of 29 to homeschool my son) and my husband is a structural engineer. We have been through treatment groups (years), seen Psychiatrists, Psychologists, Pediatricians. The stress on the family is overwhelming sometimes.
We rejected medication years ago (my son is 6 1/2 now) because of PRESSURE AND GUILT, GUILT, GUILT from our fellow Conservatives for even THINKING about "Putting our child in the straight-jacket of a psychiatric diagnosis." I gave up membership to the "no meds at any cost" club when my son had suffered enough.
If he had diabetes, would you have the same negative opinion of me for giving him insulin? I mean, come on, insulin DOES have potentially fatal side-effects, (seizures, coma).
We heard,"If you just spanked him more."
We heard,"You should not spank your child, that's what caused his behavior."
We've been kicked out of daycares, YMCA daycares, gotten stares, snide comments from other "expert" parents about our FAILURE to control our child. Did I mention, gossiped about at church?If you don't have a child like this, it is IMPOSSIBLE for you to judge a parent who would do anything to help her child succeed (INCLUDING MEDICATION).
We get enough guilt and blame, we don't need your Values imposed on us.
Go away SNOTTY, JUDGEMENTAL, KNOW-IT-ALL!! PARENTS OF ADD/ADHD KIDS ARE GOOD PARENTS...EVEN IF THEY DECIDE TO MEDICATE. DEAL WITH IT!
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 29, 2003, at 1:43:16
In reply to Re: Adderol » sharon miller, posted by Gameiplay on March 28, 2003, at 13:08:13
> Go away SNOTTY, JUDGEMENTAL, KNOW-IT-ALL!!
Different points of view are fine, and in fact encouraged, but please don't post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down, thanks.
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
Bob
PS: Follow-ups regarding posting policies, and complaints about posts, should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration; otherwise, they may be deleted.
Posted by Dr. Bob on April 9, 2003, at 2:18:36
In reply to Re: please be civil » Gameiplay, posted by Dr. Bob on March 29, 2003, at 1:43:16
> PS: Follow-ups regarding posting policies, and complaints about posts, should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration
Here's a link:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20030404/msgs/217620.html
Bob
Posted by emptee on August 31, 2003, at 19:08:15
In reply to Adderol, posted by sharon miller on February 24, 2000, at 13:23:52
im just visiting this site looking for facts on adderol. and i read a few of your posts,and uh, some people who posted said that they got thier children adderol and its not working and its making them depressed and they dont know what to do about it, and i thought that i should share my knowledge on adderol for these concerned parents. now theres add adhd ld's and whatever else and a doctor will give your kid a test and if your kid shows some of the add characteristics then they have add, right? WRONG! some kids dont want to go to school, some kids would rather play than work, they are kids, they dont want to be responsible and further their knowledge in lititure, arithmatic, or history, they want to play in the park, listen to music, hang out with friends, go the mall or whatever kids do. and if you do have add or what ever then the adderol then does its job and helps them concentrate, mellows them out, and everything else, but if a kid doesnt have add or whatever then it will have a reverse effect, adderol is sold on the streets as a speed, it has a value of from 1-3 dollars for every 10mg, when you take speed you can snort it or pop it, pop it means to eat it, and the effects are that you speed out, your heart rate increaces you concentrate more, you feel the need to do something, you short term memory decreases while youre on the drug,and it makes you feel really happy, but when the drug wares off the sarentonen levels in your brain are all messed up and you get depressed and edgy. and also your body builds up a tolorence to any drug that you put in it so if you take 10mg of adderol a day then you will build up a tolorence really quick and you wont get the speed effects from the drug but rather just get burned out right away and get depressed and edgy or mellow or whatever. my personal belief is that when it all comes down to it, its all about 2 things the kid and the parents, maybe its the kid, maybe theyre bored, they could be too advanced for the schooling that they are recieving, maybe its the parents, they could be not providing the kid with the nessessary things that their child needs to be happy and content with their child hood. who knows, everyone has their own reasons, maybe the child wants more attention, maybe the parent works too much and never spends time with thier kid, you know your reasons, ask your kid what their reasons are maybe they know maybe they dont, but what do i know is that im just a 19 year old kid who has been in foster homes, treatment centers, group homes, and even jail since i was 12 years old. and i can tell you this, ive abused adderol as a drug ive snorted 90 miligrams at a time i know what it does to me and i know how it affected my behavior, and i will never give anything even remotely similar to adderol to my children if im ever blessed with any. a doctor told me that i had add when i was 15 and i refused medication because i know that i dont have add, i concentrate when i want to, i pay attention when i want to, and thats what it comes down to. one last thing, through my years in custody ive learned that the way that i act is the way that i act some lable that a doctor gives me(add) doesnt justify my actions in any way, and if you hold someone responsible to their actions with reasonable consequences then they will get around their problem or illness if you wanna think like a doctor.
-joe
please respond to emptee_incide@hotmail.com
Posted by Quixote on September 1, 2003, at 7:52:03
In reply to Re:..Adderall, posted by Janice on February 27, 2000, at 16:46:21
i am a Montessori teacher who has worked with children with ADD or ADHD, with medication or without, also various behavioural assistance therapies or dietary & natureopathic approaches.
Each child being an individual in an internal/external environment unique to their own, i couldn't imagine generalizing here about what might be the best for anyone... but i'd gladly share some of my very contrasting experiences with children & their families: preschool -->through--> 5th grade. If anyone's interested?The other thing i offer to share is my own experience as an adult with ADD. (Imagine my suprise when recently at age 48 an evaluation revealed the REASON for so much of my life-long difficulties and brilliances *gasp*)
But first of all, i absolutely wholeheartedly recommend and encourage reading the best book IMHO i happened to stumble into on the subject. It's a fairly new publication and was in our local public library: Titled '__Driven_to_Distraction__' (by Hallowell MD.,i think) actually, was written by 2 psychiatrists who have ADD themselves. I read it and felt drenched with understanding and enlightenment. It was so informative in practicality, also... Insightful for parents...
The relativity for me made it a delightful "Ah-Ha!", but doubtless the book will be an easy joy to read for anyone interested.Until Next~
Quixote
Posted by blondegirl47 on September 1, 2003, at 13:19:44
In reply to Adderol, posted by sharon miller on February 24, 2000, at 13:23:52
Just an FYI...its been proven that ADD kid that are put on medication are less likely to turn to scoring illegal drugs on the street to self medicate themselves.
Its easier to teach medicated kids how to self parent themselves later in life, when they have gone off medication.
Anti depressants have to be tapered off of. Tapering off is so kids and adults don't go through serious withdrawl...so I doubt it was tramatic.
I agree that add medication is probably overdiagnosed, but there are quite a few that it helps tremendously. I was one that didn't get diagnosed as a child and I am sure I would have had a more productive life if I would have been diagnosed before age 40.
Everyone is different, we need to keep our minds open and research things before we label them bad for everyone.
take care
Blondegirl
Posted by avara on April 11, 2005, at 11:36:06
In reply to Adderol, posted by sharon miller on February 24, 2000, at 13:23:52
I have been reading a lot about adderoll the positive and the negative. My problem is that although the drug may be helpfull to people that have ADD or ADHD These same kids are selling this drug in schools. I have recently discovered my 14 daughter who does not have either ADD or ADHD has been given this drug by kids in school. And not thinking that it could kill her. One of her reasons is it didn't hurt me last time I took it or my friend doesn't have a problem when they take it. This drug is a hard core drug and there should be more studies by docter's and parents alike. And if your child is on adderol parents need to be more in control of the medication. Now how do I as the parent stop my daughter from getting access to this drug. I've tried the talk, the reality ,the effects and the conseqence of taking this. I need you as the parents of ADD or ADHD children or having ADD or ADHD yourself to keep better track of these pills to insure the safety of other kids at the same time being able to help your own. If anyone has any helpfull advise on how I can better help my daughter I would greatly appreciate the input. Thank You
Posted by paulbwell on April 12, 2005, at 15:05:22
In reply to Re: Adderol, posted by avara on April 11, 2005, at 11:36:06
Show your daughter some images, pictures of burned out speed freaks, who can barely function now. A few old rock stars come to mind. scare her straight
Posted by notfeelingthebest on April 14, 2005, at 20:46:03
In reply to Re: Adderol, posted by paulbwell on April 12, 2005, at 15:05:22
I dont think looking to the parents who were told by trusted professionals that their children should be taking adderall for the solution to "the war on drugs" is going to be very effective. Even when ADD gets a new name and people realize that giving speed to growing children might not be the best idea, there will still be drugs at your daughter's school. In fact, at least the pills she ended up with came from a pharmacy rather than some concoction of household cleaners and solvents. The hole baby boomer scare tactics campaign never worked because it left kids wondering why people took drugs in the first place.
When your daughter takes the pills, she actually ends up feeling quite nice for a while. Then she gets burnt out and her and little johnny who was prescribed them in the first place won't be annoying their teachers anymore. Thats just one opinion. The other is that, before little johnny went into business for himself in the playground, the high grade crystal meth he was being prescribed calmed him down and made him able to concentrate in class.
I don't know if you're aware, but adderall is an extremely potent sexual stimulant. Amphetamines can be effectively used to solve concentration difficulties, but it requires a mature and responsible individual. Who's idea was it to make us younger generations guinea pigs anyway?
Posted by vivi on April 16, 2005, at 23:53:55
In reply to Re: Adderol » sharon miller, posted by blondegirl47 on September 1, 2003, at 13:19:44
> Just an FYI...its been proven that ADD kid that are put on medication are less likely to turn to scoring illegal drugs on the street to self medicate themselves.
> Its easier to teach medicated kids how to self parent themselves later in life, when they have gone off medication.
> Anti depressants have to be tapered off of. Tapering off is so kids and adults don't go through serious withdrawl...so I doubt it was tramatic.
> I agree that add medication is probably overdiagnosed, but there are quite a few that it helps tremendously. I was one that didn't get diagnosed as a child and I am sure I would have had a more productive life if I would have been diagnosed before age 40.
> Everyone is different, we need to keep our minds open and research things before we label them bad for everyone.
> take care
> BlondegirlI agree with you completely! I was not able to focus at work and my ADD medication has been working for me and I am thankful for that. My onle concern with being on Dexedrine was the possible weight loss, but so far so good. it has helped me and at least for me I take it as prescribed and have not had any problems.
Viv
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