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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 17 of 17. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by jay on August 17, 2003, at 9:53:46
(This is quite long..sorry...but maybe it can help others dealing with the same problem.)
Hey folks....I am about to start a combination that has been mentioned a few times as being safe *with caution*. My doctor won't give me a weight loss med, so I am going to try adding a tiny amount of 5htp (to start) with Prozac. I am a 6 foot, 260 pound guy at 33, and this is just a plain *dangerous* way to live, with both my parents having heart disease, and my Dad diabetes. Sadly I also have to take Risperdal with my Prozac, and I can document the meds that caused my past weight gain (Neurontin, than Depakote, than *major* with Risperdal and then Zyprexa...now back on Risperdal).
To note, I've tried Metformin (glucophage), which worsened my anxiety,(to the point of being suicidal) as well as Topamax with little to no effect at max dose.
I am putting myself at risk, just as much as if I wasn't taking medications and being suicidal, but I refuse to stop the medications that have given me some mental stability. I was about this same weight in my late teens, then went on a crash diet and lost almost 100 pounds, which I have gained back. But, not only am I conscious of my looks (I can hide my weight in clothes because of my height and general bone size...and look good)but mainly because I don't want to drop dead of a heart attack any day now.
I will up my small but significant exercise routine slowly, and have started some meal planning and nu-life's between-meal "to diet for" shake/snack. (This is not meal replacement, which my research shows is both dangerous and ineffective in the long run.)
Also, should I consider going to a "diet Doctor" specialist, as I said, my weight has been a problem most of my life? Like my depression, it is "in the genes" partly..and maybe I should be on a supervised diet with supervised suppliments/and/or weight-loss medications. (I can't afford stomach staples, as that isn't covered by our government health plan.)
Sorry for so many questions...but a few things have happened in the past week or so that finnaly forced me to own-up to this problem. Please, spare me the "your mental health is fine..so don't worry about weight" advice...as obesity is a very, very deadly illness.
Thanks so very much,
Jay
Posted by Simcha on August 17, 2003, at 10:11:28
In reply to Need some *major* help re: weight...5htp + Prozac?, posted by jay on August 17, 2003, at 9:53:46
Jay,
I've struggled with my weight for most of my adult life even before starting medication. All of my doctors have suggested I do something about my weight. Well, I joined OA. I've realized that I'm part of the problem. I eat to medicate my depression sometimes even when I'm not hungry. Naturally, this makes me gain weight and I'm a male who is 5'10", I weigh 238, and I'm 33 too.
I'm also a very big man structurally. Most of my family is shorter than I am and we have big barrel chests and wide shoulders. My wrists are huge. The charts don't always apply to me. I still need to watch my intake of food, exercise, and eat healthy meals.
What works for me now is having five small meals throughout the day. It tends to leave me with more consistent energy throughout the day and I tend not to binge when I eat this way.
Having the support of OA has helped me. I have gained weight since being put on medications. I know this is a side effect and I know that I have a genetic predisposision to having more weight. Most men in my family get quite large later in life. I'm trying to keep myself in check as much as possible with support.
Eating a balanced vegan diet has helped me to lose 5 pounds in the past three months. It's not fast. I never lose weight fast, unless I have a major depressive episode because I normally don't eat then at all.
The Celexa and the Neurontin I take tend to help my body add on the weight. I'm doing the best I can to eat better and to do more walking.
I've considered seeing a nutritionist because I might need professional medical advice in order to learn better eating habits.
I hope you find whatever will work for you.
The most important lesson from OA I have gotten is that I need to love myself no matter what my weight is and no matter what my waist size is.
That is the beginning for me, self love. Then with self love I can start to honestly assess my eating plan without using it as a "punishment" for having gained weight.
You are right that there are risks to being heavy. I know that too for myself. I'm trying to do the best I can with what I have.
Blessings,
SimchaP.S.: Even my brother, who is adopted and was always rail thin, has gained weight on his medications for his depression. He's trying to work on this himself. This weight thing is so new to him. I'm sorry to see him go through this because I know how hard it is to lose and maintain a healthy weight for me.
> (This is quite long..sorry...but maybe it can help others dealing with the same problem.)
>
> Hey folks....I am about to start a combination that has been mentioned a few times as being safe *with caution*. My doctor won't give me a weight loss med, so I am going to try adding a tiny amount of 5htp (to start) with Prozac. I am a 6 foot, 260 pound guy at 33, and this is just a plain *dangerous* way to live, with both my parents having heart disease, and my Dad diabetes. Sadly I also have to take Risperdal with my Prozac, and I can document the meds that caused my past weight gain (Neurontin, than Depakote, than *major* with Risperdal and then Zyprexa...now back on Risperdal).
>
> To note, I've tried Metformin (glucophage), which worsened my anxiety,(to the point of being suicidal) as well as Topamax with little to no effect at max dose.
>
> I am putting myself at risk, just as much as if I wasn't taking medications and being suicidal, but I refuse to stop the medications that have given me some mental stability. I was about this same weight in my late teens, then went on a crash diet and lost almost 100 pounds, which I have gained back. But, not only am I conscious of my looks (I can hide my weight in clothes because of my height and general bone size...and look good)but mainly because I don't want to drop dead of a heart attack any day now.
>
> I will up my small but significant exercise routine slowly, and have started some meal planning and nu-life's between-meal "to diet for" shake/snack. (This is not meal replacement, which my research shows is both dangerous and ineffective in the long run.)
>
> Also, should I consider going to a "diet Doctor" specialist, as I said, my weight has been a problem most of my life? Like my depression, it is "in the genes" partly..and maybe I should be on a supervised diet with supervised suppliments/and/or weight-loss medications. (I can't afford stomach staples, as that isn't covered by our government health plan.)
>
> Sorry for so many questions...but a few things have happened in the past week or so that finnaly forced me to own-up to this problem. Please, spare me the "your mental health is fine..so don't worry about weight" advice...as obesity is a very, very deadly illness.
>
> Thanks so very much,
> Jay
Posted by NikkiT2 on August 17, 2003, at 10:39:17
In reply to Need some *major* help re: weight...5htp + Prozac?, posted by jay on August 17, 2003, at 9:53:46
I really feel for you Jay.. I've also had to watch my weight my whole life (genetic), but this last 3 years on meds has seen my weight balloon to stupid levels (and I'm only 5ft2 so its hard to hide.. I look like a beach ball these days!) When I was med free this time last year I lost 40lbs.. but as soon as I went back on the zyprexa its tarted piling back on again.
And while people say mental health is most important, being this fat was making my mental health worse, and was really really increasing my social anxiety (I refuse to see my old friends for example who knew me 90 lbs lighter).,.. so I've come off all srri's and zyprexa.. thats been 3 1/2 weeks now, and I've lost 9lb already without any real diet going on.. I've realised though, that I simply cannot be med free at the moment, but with work with my pdoc we ahve found an atypical which isn't meant to increase weight too much.. Amisulpride. Luckily my pdoc understands how awful it to be over weight (though he is not - he pretty damned perfect looking actually!!!) and has reffered me to a healthy eating nurse who specialises in Psych med weight gain..
No obvious answers for you I'm afraid.. but I would press to see someone to help you with your diet if you feel this is what will help you achieve sensible weight loss.
Good luck.. let us know how every thing goes
Nikki
Posted by Ima on August 17, 2003, at 12:02:36
In reply to Re: Need some *major* help re: weight...5htp + Prozac? » jay, posted by NikkiT2 on August 17, 2003, at 10:39:17
Hi Jay
I am only on Neurontin (600mg at night) at the moment so I cant answer about the ADS and weight gain as well as others here.
No one diet works for all, but I cant say enough about the low carb diet. Ihave been greatly helped and many people I know. Having said that, it seems like the men I know on it loose slower, but if they combine it with even a little excersize that seems to boost weight loss. It also has helped with mood stabilization for me. Atkins is fine but if you read that dont stop with that. There are many low carb scientists and authors out there. The Eades are my favorite authors. They are on the bleeding edge of this theory. My GP Doctor put me on this diet for my Fibromyalgia, the wieght loss was an additional benifit. He has put hundreds on it for everything, including hyper tension, diabetes type2, migraines, etcc.... it has helped them all.You should check with your doctor first whatever diet you choose. My husband is a vegitarian,so I know alot about that as well and it has helped his chorlesteral but he has found increased carb intake increasing his weight so he too is lowering carbs now. No small feat for a vegitarian. :)
Good luck
Peace
Ima
Posted by NikkiT2 on August 17, 2003, at 13:04:14
In reply to Re: Need some *major* help re: weight...5htp + Prozac?, posted by Ima on August 17, 2003, at 12:02:36
I tried low carb, bu tonly lasted 10 days on it before feeling really ill, and being really constipated.. I also live a vegetarian diet (I'm not vege, but my husband is and we agree to have no meat in the house) and found lowering carbs almost impossible.. so many of the beans and pulses we eat were not allowed, and bowl of pasta sauce with no pasta was not appetising for me!!!
Any tips would be greatly appreciated (yes, 90lbs over weight and a vegetarian!! And I don't use pre-packaged food at all, but fresh organic vegies etc.. oh, except dried pasta and canned beans... god knows where all my weight came from!!)
Nikki x
Posted by Aeryn on August 17, 2003, at 15:01:00
In reply to Need some *major* help re: weight...5htp + Prozac?, posted by jay on August 17, 2003, at 9:53:46
My husband has been on Risperdal for about two years. It saved his life. But he also gained over 100 pounds. Risperdal takes away a feeling of saiety and can cause diabetes, especially in young men.
He is nearly off it now and the weight is starting to come off. When he is entirely off of it he will get a new anxiety med that is safer.
Risperdal, it seems to me, should be for emergency downturns only.
If there are any other treatment options, you'd be better off.
Plus 5-HTP is basically just a seretonin enhancer, it will probably be just like popping another prozac. If you start to feel all over body pains, stop taking it immediately. Bad side effect.
Good luck, Aeryn
Posted by DSCH on August 17, 2003, at 16:50:12
In reply to Need some *major* help re: weight...5htp + Prozac?, posted by jay on August 17, 2003, at 9:53:46
Jay have a look at my posts up above entitled "Thanksgiving Dinner Serotonin Syndrome" and the "Serotonin/Carbohydrate Connection". You and I might have similar histories and thus enhancing your serotonin level *might* be precisely the wrong thing for you to do.
I am 6'2", large frame (older folks have asked me if I played football), was 255# and dropped five of those this past week when I "woke up" to what was happening within my body and started Atkins induction phase. I have a grandfather who developed type II diabetes.
Posted by DSCH on August 17, 2003, at 16:59:26
In reply to Need some *major* help re: weight...5htp + Prozac?, posted by jay on August 17, 2003, at 9:53:46
Posted by jay on August 18, 2003, at 0:00:57
In reply to Re: Need some *major* help re: weight...5htp + Prozac?, posted by Simcha on August 17, 2003, at 10:11:28
> Jay,
>
> I've struggled with my weight for most of my adult life even before starting medication. All of my doctors have suggested I do something about my weight. Well, I joined OA. I've realized that I'm part of the problem. I eat to medicate my depression sometimes even when I'm not hungry. Naturally, this makes me gain weight and I'm a male who is 5'10", I weigh 238, and I'm 33 too.
>
> I'm also a very big man structurally. Most of my family is shorter than I am and we have big barrel chests and wide shoulders. My wrists are huge. The charts don't always apply to me. I still need to watch my intake of food, exercise, and eat healthy meals.
>
> What works for me now is having five small meals throughout the day. It tends to leave me with more consistent energy throughout the day and I tend not to binge when I eat this way.
>
> Having the support of OA has helped me. I have gained weight since being put on medications. I know this is a side effect and I know that I have a genetic predisposision to having more weight. Most men in my family get quite large later in life. I'm trying to keep myself in check as much as possible with support.
>
> Eating a balanced vegan diet has helped me to lose 5 pounds in the past three months. It's not fast. I never lose weight fast, unless I have a major depressive episode because I normally don't eat then at all.
>
> The Celexa and the Neurontin I take tend to help my body add on the weight. I'm doing the best I can to eat better and to do more walking.
>
> I've considered seeing a nutritionist because I might need professional medical advice in order to learn better eating habits.
>
> I hope you find whatever will work for you.
>
> The most important lesson from OA I have gotten is that I need to love myself no matter what my weight is and no matter what my waist size is.
>
> That is the beginning for me, self love. Then with self love I can start to honestly assess my eating plan without using it as a "punishment" for having gained weight.
>
> You are right that there are risks to being heavy. I know that too for myself. I'm trying to do the best I can with what I have.
>
> Blessings,
> Simcha
>
> P.S.: Even my brother, who is adopted and was always rail thin, has gained weight on his medications for his depression. He's trying to work on this himself. This weight thing is so new to him. I'm sorry to see him go through this because I know how hard it is to lose and maintain a healthy weight for me.
>
>
Thanks very much Simcha. I will look into OA, and am currently waiting for a call from the social worker at the hospital I am an outpatient in with regards to a few different therapy groups. I will ask her about support for eating disorders and such. I've been starting to do more extra 'walking' for about an hour, and feel great listening to my walkman. I wish I had the discipline to stick to a vegan diet, but have tried and failed miserably many times. I find I can do my best if I focus on calorie counting. Thank you very much for your encouragement, as it is really such a bummer having lost the weight, and put it all back on, then having to lose it *again*. (I know...pity me...heh.)So, I am gonna take some of your ideas and try them out..see what fits (no pun intended..lol!). I have a feeling that that nice, low-stress feeling urges the weight on, but maybe with more activity I will even feel *better*. Here is to the best to both of us! Thanks so very much...
Sincerely,
Jay
Posted by jay on August 18, 2003, at 0:12:16
In reply to Re: Need some *major* help re: weight...5htp + Prozac? » jay, posted by NikkiT2 on August 17, 2003, at 10:39:17
> I really feel for you Jay.. I've also had to watch my weight my whole life (genetic), but this last 3 years on meds has seen my weight balloon to stupid levels (and I'm only 5ft2 so its hard to hide.. I look like a beach ball these days!) When I was med free this time last year I lost 40lbs.. but as soon as I went back on the zyprexa its tarted piling back on again.
>
> And while people say mental health is most important, being this fat was making my mental health worse, and was really really increasing my social anxiety (I refuse to see my old friends for example who knew me 90 lbs lighter).,.. so I've come off all srri's and zyprexa.. thats been 3 1/2 weeks now, and I've lost 9lb already without any real diet going on.. I've realised though, that I simply cannot be med free at the moment, but with work with my pdoc we ahve found an atypical which isn't meant to increase weight too much.. Amisulpride. Luckily my pdoc understands how awful it to be over weight (though he is not - he pretty damned perfect looking actually!!!) and has reffered me to a healthy eating nurse who specialises in Psych med weight gain..
>
> No obvious answers for you I'm afraid.. but I would press to see someone to help you with your diet if you feel this is what will help you achieve sensible weight loss.
>
> Good luck.. let us know how every thing goes
>
> NikkiHey Nikki...thanks very much. You are very correct, in that getting some formal and structured help with diet is so important. I find I need someone to give me that little 'boost', and my problem is I socially isolate myself. I am going to call the hospital social worker in the next few days to discuss different therapy, and I am also going to be frank with my doctor about finding a weight-loss medication to give me a bit of a 'jump start'...as I mentioned about 12 years ago, I lost a ton of weight, and now have it all and more back on. I am really, really lucky as I have folks who support me any way possible to rid of the weight, and have even talked about paying for some surgery if it becomes *that bad*. (It is 'bad'...but I hope more natural methods work first.) Like I said I am at major, major risk for heart disease, and even find my breathing quite laboured at times. Far too dangerous.
Thanks again..and I will post if I come up with some 'tricks' that really help.
Best wishes :-)
Jay
Posted by jay on August 18, 2003, at 0:19:48
In reply to Re: Need some *major* help re: weight...5htp + Prozac?, posted by Ima on August 17, 2003, at 12:02:36
> Hi Jay
> I am only on Neurontin (600mg at night) at the moment so I cant answer about the ADS and weight gain as well as others here.
> No one diet works for all, but I cant say enough about the low carb diet. Ihave been greatly helped and many people I know. Having said that, it seems like the men I know on it loose slower, but if they combine it with even a little excersize that seems to boost weight loss. It also has helped with mood stabilization for me. Atkins is fine but if you read that dont stop with that. There are many low carb scientists and authors out there. The Eades are my favorite authors. They are on the bleeding edge of this theory. My GP Doctor put me on this diet for my Fibromyalgia, the wieght loss was an additional benifit. He has put hundreds on it for everything, including hyper tension, diabetes type2, migraines, etcc.... it has helped them all.
>
> You should check with your doctor first whatever diet you choose. My husband is a vegitarian,so I know alot about that as well and it has helped his chorlesteral but he has found increased carb intake increasing his weight so he too is lowering carbs now. No small feat for a vegitarian. :)
> Good luck
> Peace
> ImaHi Ima...thank you very much for your kind thoughts. It reminds me that I should look very strongly at manipulating my diet (but in a healthy way, of course). I found Neurontin and Depakote the first meds that really piled the weight on...as I was *never* full. I stopped Neurontin because I was making myself sick from eating so much. We are all different with regards to metabolism and whatever of course, as my brother's wife is on Neurontin and Prozac and is 'razor thin'.
Your and others support have made me feel determined to also tell my doctor I can't go on like this, and need some extra help, atleast to start. I am not sure about the route to take with antipsychotics....as they are the best 'mood stabalizers' for me, but there "must" be some kind of answer out there.
Thanks so much again...
Best wishes :-)
Jay
Posted by jay on August 18, 2003, at 0:24:51
In reply to Risperdal a serious problem, posted by Aeryn on August 17, 2003, at 15:01:00
Hi...thanks very much for your post. It just may be I *have* to change my antipsychotic, period. I am starting to read many articles that suggest that the benefits of atypicals where *way* overdone, and that there are still safe, body-friendly typical antipsychotics but they just need to be used in much lower doses than they where.
Thanks again....
Best wishes..:-)
Jay
Posted by jay on August 18, 2003, at 0:29:46
In reply to Re: Need some *major* help re: weight...5htp + Prozac? » jay, posted by DSCH on August 17, 2003, at 16:50:12
> Jay have a look at my posts up above entitled "Thanksgiving Dinner Serotonin Syndrome" and the "Serotonin/Carbohydrate Connection". You and I might have similar histories and thus enhancing your serotonin level *might* be precisely the wrong thing for you to do.
>
> I am 6'2", large frame (older folks have asked me if I played football), was 255# and dropped five of those this past week when I "woke up" to what was happening within my body and started Atkins induction phase. I have a grandfather who developed type II diabetes.
Hey..thanks very much, and I will check it out. The problem is Norepinephrine acting a.d.'s *really* make my problems 100's times worse. This trial of Prozac is the only one I have ever been able to tolerate. Any other antidepressant suggestions? (Besides Welbutrin...which also made me manic and angry..)Thanks...
Best wishes..:-)
Jay
Posted by blondegirl47 on August 18, 2003, at 17:49:57
In reply to Need some *major* help re: weight...5htp + Prozac?, posted by jay on August 17, 2003, at 9:53:46
I am just now trying the south beach diet, it seems like you can eat when you are hungry and lose weight. What is the 5htp supposed to do. My sister is on prozac and has gained weight, I would like to help her if I could.
Blondegirl.
Posted by jay on August 18, 2003, at 19:18:06
In reply to Re: Need some *major* help re: weight...5htp + Prozac? » jay, posted by blondegirl47 on August 18, 2003, at 17:49:57
> I am just now trying the south beach diet, it seems like you can eat when you are hungry and lose weight. What is the 5htp supposed to do. My sister is on prozac and has gained weight, I would like to help her if I could.
> Blondegirl.I believe that there are two main types of diets that help different people. This is not scientific, just observation. I tried fatty acid suppliments for a long, long time in all combos, and *zilch*. In the past, high protein diets with a high protien shake (*very* high..not just a Slim-fast)has helped much, and I try to keep a good average intake of good fats/fatty acids. I honestly don't know about the South Beach diet..just have heard of it. But, I am doing a high protein, medium good fat intake, and good exercise (speed walking) routine, which feels right for me, and has helped with weight loss (a fair amount) in the past without any problems.
It's just taken me this long to get *motivated*!!Don't know if that answers your question..maybe she could try cutting down the Prozac dose? It, to me, is a superior med because of it's long half-life, and people don't get all wired up from withdrawl nearly as much as many other current a.d.'s. I'd say then it may be the easiest one to adjust, and possibly eventually come off of.
By the way..I use Nu-life's "To-Diet-For", and you are likely to get best suggestions from a reputable health food store than some super market or pharmacy. (For suppliment-related goods.)I'll try to keep posted on success.
Of course, Just IMHO...
Best wishes,
Jay
Posted by Kat26 on August 18, 2003, at 21:18:45
In reply to Re: Need some *major* help re: weight...5htp + Prozac? » blondegirl47, posted by jay on August 18, 2003, at 19:18:06
Hello,
did your doctor say something about 5htp taken together with an ssri could cause serotonin syndrome? I thought that was a risk.
Kat26
p.s. I am on prozac and it did not make me gain any weight. :)
Posted by jay on August 19, 2003, at 9:34:37
In reply to Re: Need some *major* help re: weight...5htp + Pro, posted by Kat26 on August 18, 2003, at 21:18:45
> Hello,
>
> did your doctor say something about 5htp taken together with an ssri could cause serotonin syndrome? I thought that was a risk.
>
> Kat26
>
> p.s. I am on prozac and it did not make me gain any weight. :)Hi Kat:
No, I haven't even cleared it with my doctor. It doesn't really matter now, as I am changing my eating habits, using high protein and meal replacement shakes, some Omega fatty acids, and slowly starting an exercise routine. See I am also on an atypical antipsychotic, and that plus past mood stabalizers *really* bumped my weight up to dangerous levels. At the time, I was too depressed and anxious to care about weight. After 12 or so years, though, I've found some helpful meds, and changing other parts of my lifestyle are much easier. I'll report back on any changes.
Thanks for your concern...
Sincerely,
Jay
This is the end of the thread.
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