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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by tepiaca on July 12, 2003, at 20:25:00
I cant even remeber what I did yesterday
This is becoming a big problem in my life , my memory is out . I think im gonna suffer Alzheimer in the futureDo you know any medicines to help with this problem??
Posted by slinky on July 12, 2003, at 20:41:19
In reply to is there any medicine to improve memory??, posted by tepiaca on July 12, 2003, at 20:25:00
Yes! a great drug but sadly I can't remember it's name..only teasing Tepiaca :-)
I'd love to know also, my memory - especially short term , spelling , word retrieval is getting worse , ginko biloba is supposed to help but I'm still to be convinced.
Posted by GreatDaneBoy on July 13, 2003, at 2:43:26
In reply to Re: is there any medicine to improve memory?? » tepiaca, posted by slinky on July 12, 2003, at 20:41:19
Hi guys,
I'd love to hear from anyone with suggestions. I think that years of Lithium, Depakote, Zyprexa, and Seroquel have totally zapped my memory altogether. I tell people the same thing over and over, and I lose my train of..... oh, what was it now? ;-) I have tried Ginko Biloba and a few other herbs and they had absoulutely no effect on me. Also, I have the tendency to tell people the same thing over and over again.Dane =)
Posted by Larry Hoover on July 13, 2003, at 7:06:17
In reply to is there any medicine to improve memory??, posted by tepiaca on July 12, 2003, at 20:25:00
> I cant even remeber what I did yesterday
> This is becoming a big problem in my life , my memory is out . I think im gonna suffer Alzheimer in the future
>
> Do you know any medicines to help with this problem??
>I hope I don't sound like I'm nagging, but the best thing I can suggest is getting into taking those supplements regularly. Depression is strongly associated with disturbances in memory and other cognitive functions, and I think the link has to do with the stress that the disorder places on the brain. Living through depression is hard work, and that's stressful. Stress is a trigger for depression. It's one of those classic "vicious circle" thingies.
If you go to any pharmacy, and look at the vitamin section, you'll see one or more products labelled "Stress Formula", or some such. They're full of B-vitamins, and certain minerals (the same stuff I've been suggesting). Stress depletes vitamins in your body, and increases the demand for more. Your mind cannot function well if its connected to a starving body.
I was thinking about starting a thread about how my short- and long-term memory has been steadily improving of late, and then I see your post.....
It would be very difficult to say just what in particular is having such a beneficial effect (I take a lot of supplements), or it may be the combination.....
Earlier this year, I added Enada NADH (a special form of the vitamin B-3, niacin), and niacinamide (another variant of niacin) to my already substantial intake of B-vitamins and so on. So, I can't say that the NADH *alone* might have a similar effect for others, but......since I've added these new supps, I have virtually eliminated the symptoms of chronic fatigue syndrome, and, my brain is sharper, and my recall is better. Much better. One of the most difficult things for me to remember is people's names. I joke about being dysnamic. I can remember NAMES! I can remember names of people from years ago! Bonus!
Lar
Posted by SLS on July 13, 2003, at 9:40:14
In reply to Re: memory, and NADH » tepiaca, posted by Larry Hoover on July 13, 2003, at 7:06:17
> So, I can't say that the NADH *alone* might have a similar effect for others, but......since I've added these new supps, I have virtually eliminated the symptoms of chronic fatigue syndrome
Hi Larry.CFS only? Do you have major depression or bipolar disorder?
- Scott
Posted by Larry Hoover on July 13, 2003, at 10:13:09
In reply to Re: memory, and NADH » Larry Hoover, posted by SLS on July 13, 2003, at 9:40:14
> > So, I can't say that the NADH *alone* might have a similar effect for others, but......since I've added these new supps, I have virtually eliminated the symptoms of chronic fatigue syndrome
>
>
> Hi Larry.
>
> CFS only? Do you have major depression or bipolar disorder?
>
>
> - ScottThere is a 100% incidence of mood disorders in the male component of my family tree. Many have frank bipolar disorder, but if anything, I'm dysthymic and major depressive (sometimes called double depression). I am presently in remission.
I've come a long way since my days of hospitalization. My mood has been stable for a few years now, with some minor blips, and I attribute that entirely to supplement use (though my attribution *may* be incorrect).
It has only been since I achieved mood stabilization that other persistent symptoms have become salient. Although I was first diagnosed with CFS in 1990 (prior to hospitalization for depression), it became obvious that the CFS was active again when my mood stabilized but I remained ill. I have also since been diagnosed with both acute (from an assault) and chronic (childhood abuse) PTSD, which explains a lot of other stuff going on.
Lar
Posted by SLS on July 13, 2003, at 16:26:29
In reply to Re: memory, and NADH » SLS, posted by Larry Hoover on July 13, 2003, at 10:13:09
> My mood has been stable for a few years now, with some minor blips, and I attribute that entirely to supplement use (though my attribution *may* be incorrect).
Hi Larry.
Thanks for replying. I'm sure you've already posted this a million times, but I would love to know what drugs and supplements you are currently taking, and which ones you feel contribute to your remission from depression. I hope it's not a well-guarded family recipe!
Thanks.
Stay well.
- Scott
Posted by Larry Hoover on July 14, 2003, at 7:35:59
In reply to Re: memory, and NADH » Larry Hoover, posted by SLS on July 13, 2003, at 16:26:29
> > My mood has been stable for a few years now, with some minor blips, and I attribute that entirely to supplement use (though my attribution *may* be incorrect).
>
>
> Hi Larry.
>
> Thanks for replying. I'm sure you've already posted this a million times, but I would love to know what drugs and supplements you are currently taking, and which ones you feel contribute to your remission from depression. I hope it's not a well-guarded family recipe!
>
> Thanks.
>
> Stay well.
>
>
> - ScottI can't point my finger at any particular supplement and say, this is the one. They seem to work in concert, at least, or synergistically, as an alternative.
I don't take my supps every day. I'm just not predisposed to anything that routine. Remembering to take prescription meds daily was always a huge chore (but I'm not taking any prescribed meds now, other than temazepam for insomnia, which I simply cannot forget). The intermittent intake of supps may enhance their effect (by preventing dependence), or may reduce the effect, by failing to achieve saturation of my enzymes,etc. Really, all I'm saying is there is an uncontrolled variable in my personal experiment.
Even though I don't take them daily, I'll express them in a per day format. I'm more driven by whim than anything, on the supps. Gut-feeling stuff, my body telling me to up my intake of something. The core group I deem essential for my well-being.
Core supps (stuff I take pretty much every time I take supps):
B-complex/mineral tablets (this is a B-50 complex, with your typical minerals added), 2 tabs/day
B-12, 1,000 mcg/day (cyanocobalamin or methylcobalamin)
selenium, 200 mcg/day
zinc, 50 mg/day
vit. C, 2 g/day
vit. E, 800 IU/day
alphalipoic acid, 300 mg/day
folate, 1 mg/day
niacinamide, 500-1000 mg/day
fish oil, 3-6 g/dayIntermittent supps (stuff I don't take every time, but still with relatively high frequency):
magnesium, 200-800 mg (elemental)
phosphatidyl serine, 300 mg
lecithin granules, by the spoonful
NADH 5-10 mg
TMG 500-1500 mg
borage oil, 500-1500 mg (for the GLA....should take more of this one (personal reminder))
chromium, 150 mcg
cod liver oil, teaspoonMore intermittent yet:
vitamin D, 400 IU (actually a hormone)
Siberian ginseng
ginkgo
St. John's wort (just for tweaking)I hope I didn't forget anything.
I should conclude with a little blurb about my own philosophy with respect to my health. Despite the different diagnoses (*their* (the medical model's) ideas, and I have other diagnoses I didn't mention), I have long noted that groups of symptoms wax and wane together. Those symptom clusters often are attributed (by them) to different diagnoses. My body says otherwise.
Many years ago, I first hypothesized that a root causative factor for my health problems was what I called a "subclinical malabsorption syndrome", i.e. not so severe as to require obvious treatment, but chronic and debilitating (via malnutrition), nevertheless. That concept, and my extreme sensitivity to the side effects of prescription medications, has pushed me down the supplementation path.
I may be a bizarre freak of nature. Who knows? It's impossible for me to stand back from the guidance offered by my own experience, and give an unbiased recommendation to others, with respect to supplements. I do my best to only report from the literature. That is my caveat to you. I cannot know what may or may not help you.
Recent discussions of celiac and dairy intolerance have re-awakened my thinking. These sensitivities provide a mechanism for my malabsorptive model. I'm going to have to face this, and adopt an exclusion diet, to settle the question.
I'm probably on the road in just a few hours. Catch ya later.
Lar
Posted by tepiaca on July 14, 2003, at 11:37:21
In reply to Re: memory, and supplements » SLS, posted by Larry Hoover on July 14, 2003, at 7:35:59
oh my god larry ! , you really take a lot of suplements !
How much money do you spent on them ???
wich brand do you suggest me to buy on every one?
Thanks for the reply
Tep
Posted by SLS on July 14, 2003, at 11:50:57
In reply to Re: memory, and supplements » SLS, posted by Larry Hoover on July 14, 2003, at 7:35:59
> The core group I deem essential for my well-being.
Dear Larry,
I can't thank you enough for this.
- Scott
Posted by avid abulia on July 14, 2003, at 22:35:07
In reply to Re: is there any medicine to improve memory??, posted by GreatDaneBoy on July 13, 2003, at 2:43:26
> Hi guys,
> I'd love to hear from anyone with suggestions. I think that years of Lithium, Depakote, Zyprexa, and Seroquel have totally zapped my memory altogether. I tell people the same thing over and over, and I lose my train of..... oh, what was it now? ;-) I have tried Ginko Biloba and a few other herbs and they had absoulutely no effect on me. Also, I have the tendency to tell people the same thing over and over again.
>
> Dane =)
**************************************Personally, i would go with Larry's suggestions of nutritional supplements before i went for this, but the Alzheimer's drug Aricept has a study or two backing it's use for med-induced cognitive dysfunction.
Posted by Larry Hoover on July 19, 2003, at 7:41:37
In reply to Re: memory, and supplements » Larry Hoover, posted by tepiaca on July 14, 2003, at 11:37:21
> oh my god larry ! , you really take a lot of suplements !
Yes, I do.
> How much money do you spent on them ???
Overall, I'd say the cost averages out to about $50 a month. I used to smoke a pack a day, and that cost me far more than these supps cost me.
> wich brand do you suggest me to buy on every one?
I don't think brand recommendations are something I'd want to get into, because I don't think it matters very much. Also, brands I am familiar with may not be available everywhere.
> Thanks for the reply
> TepYou're welcome.
I'm seriously suggesting you try all the things on the list I gave you earlier, in the other thread.
Lar
Posted by Ame Sans Vie on July 20, 2003, at 19:21:08
In reply to Re: is there any medicine to improve memory??, posted by avid abulia on July 14, 2003, at 22:35:07
Lecithin contains phosphatidyl choline, a precursor to acetylcholine--a major neurotransmitter involved in mental performance and memory. I've been taking one heaping tablespoon of lecithin granules daily now for a short period of time, and already am noticing subtle differences. Just a suggestion.
Posted by samplemethod on July 21, 2003, at 7:43:34
In reply to Re: memory, and supplements » SLS, posted by Larry Hoover on July 14, 2003, at 7:35:59
Yo lar thanks for that. Big props to Lar. I just wanna say all the info you have provided in the past few months I have been on this board is much appreciated.
I have been taking the same sorta core supps apart from heavy b12 and heavy niacinamide.
will be trying TMG soon... are there any bad effects that can happen with TMG?Whats your opinion about Evening primrose oil. I bought that lately for the GLA content (10%- havent found borage yet in OZ), and maybe for the other oil content. not too sure about what it also provides.
Should I take it? How much you reckon?
I also tried some CLA lately... but have been reading some contradicting studies so I have stopped taking it for the moment.
Ive heard that CLA competes with fish oil in some way and some suggest to use it on alternate days...
My main interest in CLA was for weight loss. Do you know if EPO will affect my weight loss. Ive heard that EPO is 65% to 80% linoleic acid though I dunno how this will affect me.
-----------
> > > My mood has been stable for a few years now, with some minor blips, and I attribute that entirely to supplement use (though my attribution *may* be incorrect).
> >
> >
> > Hi Larry.
> >
> > Thanks for replying. I'm sure you've already posted this a million times, but I would love to know what drugs and supplements you are currently taking, and which ones you feel contribute to your remission from depression. I hope it's not a well-guarded family recipe!
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > Stay well.
> >
> >
> > - Scott
>
> I can't point my finger at any particular supplement and say, this is the one. They seem to work in concert, at least, or synergistically, as an alternative.
>
> I don't take my supps every day. I'm just not predisposed to anything that routine. Remembering to take prescription meds daily was always a huge chore (but I'm not taking any prescribed meds now, other than temazepam for insomnia, which I simply cannot forget). The intermittent intake of supps may enhance their effect (by preventing dependence), or may reduce the effect, by failing to achieve saturation of my enzymes,etc. Really, all I'm saying is there is an uncontrolled variable in my personal experiment.
>
> Even though I don't take them daily, I'll express them in a per day format. I'm more driven by whim than anything, on the supps. Gut-feeling stuff, my body telling me to up my intake of something. The core group I deem essential for my well-being.
>
> Core supps (stuff I take pretty much every time I take supps):
>
> B-complex/mineral tablets (this is a B-50 complex, with your typical minerals added), 2 tabs/day
> B-12, 1,000 mcg/day (cyanocobalamin or methylcobalamin)
> selenium, 200 mcg/day
> zinc, 50 mg/day
> vit. C, 2 g/day
> vit. E, 800 IU/day
> alphalipoic acid, 300 mg/day
> folate, 1 mg/day
> niacinamide, 500-1000 mg/day
> fish oil, 3-6 g/day
>
> Intermittent supps (stuff I don't take every time, but still with relatively high frequency):
>
> magnesium, 200-800 mg (elemental)
> phosphatidyl serine, 300 mg
> lecithin granules, by the spoonful
> NADH 5-10 mg
> TMG 500-1500 mg
> borage oil, 500-1500 mg (for the GLA....should take more of this one (personal reminder))
> chromium, 150 mcg
> cod liver oil, teaspoon
>
> More intermittent yet:
> vitamin D, 400 IU (actually a hormone)
> Siberian ginseng
> ginkgo
> St. John's wort (just for tweaking)
>
> I hope I didn't forget anything.
>
> I should conclude with a little blurb about my own philosophy with respect to my health. Despite the different diagnoses (*their* (the medical model's) ideas, and I have other diagnoses I didn't mention), I have long noted that groups of symptoms wax and wane together. Those symptom clusters often are attributed (by them) to different diagnoses. My body says otherwise.
>
> Many years ago, I first hypothesized that a root causative factor for my health problems was what I called a "subclinical malabsorption syndrome", i.e. not so severe as to require obvious treatment, but chronic and debilitating (via malnutrition), nevertheless. That concept, and my extreme sensitivity to the side effects of prescription medications, has pushed me down the supplementation path.
>
> I may be a bizarre freak of nature. Who knows? It's impossible for me to stand back from the guidance offered by my own experience, and give an unbiased recommendation to others, with respect to supplements. I do my best to only report from the literature. That is my caveat to you. I cannot know what may or may not help you.
>
> Recent discussions of celiac and dairy intolerance have re-awakened my thinking. These sensitivities provide a mechanism for my malabsorptive model. I'm going to have to face this, and adopt an exclusion diet, to settle the question.
>
> I'm probably on the road in just a few hours. Catch ya later.
>
> Lar
Posted by Larry Hoover on July 23, 2003, at 7:50:08
In reply to Re: memory, and supplements » Larry Hoover, posted by samplemethod on July 21, 2003, at 7:43:34
> Yo lar thanks for that. Big props to Lar. I just wanna say all the info you have provided in the past few months I have been on this board is much appreciated.
I'm glad people are interested in alternatives to meds alone.
> I have been taking the same sorta core supps apart from heavy b12 and heavy niacinamide.Do you think there has been any benefit?
> will be trying TMG soon... are there any bad effects that can happen with TMG?Insomnia, and some report irritability. I think that's a dose issue, rather than a substance issue. Genetic differences may be substantial here, with respect to tolerance and effect.
I get insomnia at doses over 1 gram, but I know people who take eight grams.
> Whats your opinion about Evening primrose oil. I bought that lately for the GLA content (10%- havent found borage yet in OZ), and maybe for the other oil content. not too sure about what it also provides.The GLA, especially when taken with omega-3 fats (due to beneficial competition at one enzyme), is shunted into anti-inflammatory prostaglandins. Borage is a more cost-effective source (more than twice the GLA concentration). My brain's fried, but I think that black currant oil is also better than evening primrose.
> Should I take it? How much you reckon?1 gram to 2 grams daily, with fish oil.
> I also tried some CLA lately... but have been reading some contradicting studies so I have stopped taking it for the moment.What bad info have you read? There are pros and cons to everything, you know.
> Ive heard that CLA competes with fish oil in some way and some suggest to use it on alternate days...CLA competes with the 18-carbon fatty acid, linolenic (e.g. the one in flax). The fish oil is a great supplement because its already in the form your body needs. There is no need for it to compete with anything.
That said, some CLA may be incorporated into phospholipids in place of other unsaturates, but I don't know that there is any problem with that.
> My main interest in CLA was for weight loss. Do you know if EPO will affect my weight loss. Ive heard that EPO is 65% to 80% linoleic acid though I dunno how this will affect me.You probably are already over-supplied with linoleic acid. It's in all sorts of vegetable oils. CLA does indeed enhance weight loss.
The issue is balance, more than absolute quantities. If the only way you can get adequate amounts of the fatty acids you're deficient in (e.g. GLA, EPA, DHA, CLA) is to take supplements which simultaneously contain other fatty acids already in bountiful supply, so be it. Better with the supps than without.
Lar
Posted by samplemethod on July 26, 2003, at 5:23:54
In reply to Re: memory, and supplements » samplemethod, posted by Larry Hoover on July 23, 2003, at 7:50:08
What you say here:
"If the only way you can get adequate amounts of the fatty acids you're deficient in (e.g. GLA, EPA, DHA, CLA) is to take supplements which simultaneously contain other fatty acids already in bountiful supply, so be it. Better with the supps than without."
Seems to be the real issue that I was missing. Cheers for the insight.
Im gonna take my EPO, and CLA with my fish oil.
> > Yo lar thanks for that. Big props to Lar. I just wanna say all the info you have provided in the past few months I have been on this board is much appreciated.
>
> I'm glad people are interested in alternatives to meds alone.
>
> > I have been taking the same sorta core supps apart from heavy b12 and heavy niacinamide.
>
> Do you think there has been any benefit?
>
>
> > will be trying TMG soon... are there any bad effects that can happen with TMG?
>
> Insomnia, and some report irritability. I think that's a dose issue, rather than a substance issue. Genetic differences may be substantial here, with respect to tolerance and effect.
>
> I get insomnia at doses over 1 gram, but I know people who take eight grams.
>
> > Whats your opinion about Evening primrose oil. I bought that lately for the GLA content (10%- havent found borage yet in OZ), and maybe for the other oil content. not too sure about what it also provides.
>
> The GLA, especially when taken with omega-3 fats (due to beneficial competition at one enzyme), is shunted into anti-inflammatory prostaglandins. Borage is a more cost-effective source (more than twice the GLA concentration). My brain's fried, but I think that black currant oil is also better than evening primrose.
>
> > Should I take it? How much you reckon?
>
> 1 gram to 2 grams daily, with fish oil.
>
> > I also tried some CLA lately... but have been reading some contradicting studies so I have stopped taking it for the moment.
>
> What bad info have you read? There are pros and cons to everything, you know.
>
> > Ive heard that CLA competes with fish oil in some way and some suggest to use it on alternate days...
>
> CLA competes with the 18-carbon fatty acid, linolenic (e.g. the one in flax). The fish oil is a great supplement because its already in the form your body needs. There is no need for it to compete with anything.
>
> That said, some CLA may be incorporated into phospholipids in place of other unsaturates, but I don't know that there is any problem with that.
>
> > My main interest in CLA was for weight loss. Do you know if EPO will affect my weight loss. Ive heard that EPO is 65% to 80% linoleic acid though I dunno how this will affect me.
>
> You probably are already over-supplied with linoleic acid. It's in all sorts of vegetable oils. CLA does indeed enhance weight loss.
>
> The issue is balance, more than absolute quantities. If the only way you can get adequate amounts of the fatty acids you're deficient in (e.g. GLA, EPA, DHA, CLA) is to take supplements which simultaneously contain other fatty acids already in bountiful supply, so be it. Better with the supps than without.
>
> Lar
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