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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by crazychickuk on July 5, 2003, at 17:52:00
Hi i am so scared, been suffering with anxiety for 3 yrs every med has made me worse, (ssri) this past mnth i have been experiencing severe brain fog... i am so scared.,, doc just gave me reboxetine (snri)to try as doc says i need meds.. HELP PLSE
Posted by zeugma on July 5, 2003, at 19:13:12
In reply to SEVERE BRAIN FOG, posted by crazychickuk on July 5, 2003, at 17:52:00
Hi crazychick,
You should try the reboxetine. I take Strattera which is also an NRI and it is great for brain fog. Strattera has a short half life but there is no withdrawal, no brain shocks, nothing. NRI's often work on people who can't tolerate SSRI's. This article describes NRI'shttp://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/publications/gaskell/samplechaps/usedrugs5Chap.pdf
Posted by Edgefield on July 5, 2003, at 19:47:10
In reply to SEVERE BRAIN FOG, posted by crazychickuk on July 5, 2003, at 17:52:00
Excuse my ignorance, but is brain fog the same as derealization?
Posted by zeugma on July 5, 2003, at 21:53:55
In reply to Re: SEVERE BRAIN FOG » crazychickuk, posted by Edgefield on July 5, 2003, at 19:47:10
Edgefield,
I read the posts in the other thread, but I will clarify what I mean by brain fog: a feeling that my mind isn't 'there' when I need it, a really maddening feeling because it makes me distrustful of my own mind: I feel like I can't rely on myself to do the simplest things! So it is quite debilitating. Strattera is great at clearing my mind enough to where I feel I can control my mental capacities a fair percentage of the time.
I also have severe ADHD, and when I'm unmedicated my ability to direct my attention wanes and the hyperassociative, phobic part takes. It also becomes connected with sleep issues because I start feeling like I'm neither fully awake nor fully asleep when I should be: I start getting weird, scary mixed states that are totally disruptive. I found some good descriptions of these abberations in J.A Hobson's book, "The Dream Drugstore." I have gotten a lot of insight from this book and I have always suspected mental illness could stem from dreaming invading waking life (and vice versa). The periods in my life when I've been most depressed have also been the most dreamlike. Sometimes there's been an inexplicable beauty (that might sound strange, but it's true) but more often it's been an anxiety-ridden nightmare.
Posted by bookgurl99 on July 6, 2003, at 3:03:23
In reply to SEVERE BRAIN FOG, posted by crazychickuk on July 5, 2003, at 17:52:00
hey chick,
it might be a good idea to try the reboxetine. the snri's are a different class of drug than prozac, etc., so it might work in a way that the others haven't.
why are you scared? from being labelled and told to take something? _you_ are in control; you can decide what to put in your mouth and when. but consider the information available.
Posted by Anton on July 6, 2003, at 3:05:14
In reply to Re: SEVERE BRAIN FOG » Edgefield, posted by zeugma on July 5, 2003, at 21:53:55
I can relate. One of my biggest problems right now is becoming lost in very vivid dreaming almost every night and I wake up covered in sweat and feel like I've just been through a marathon. I can't say that I like it much, it really confuses me sometimes on what is real. The way I'm working it out is by trying to have control of my dreams, and sending 'happy' ones, for in a way I know this might sound totally weird but, I think sometimes I'm seeing myself in another path taken in another parallel universe where I may or may not exist, and the other me is seeing my universe in dreams too, which would actually be pretty much a weird ass nightmare right now. Seeing as this World is just as weird as any I wander across in my dreams each night.
But it doesn't matter because I still can't understand it, maybe it's just overactive imagination filled with anxiety.
Posted by crazychickuk on July 6, 2003, at 9:39:02
In reply to Re: SEVERE BRAIN FOG Edgefield, posted by Anton on July 6, 2003, at 3:05:14
I was taking effexor 3 yrs ago which is an srni and i feell that that gave me anxiety in the first place, i was only taking if for mild depression and lack of confidence.. and then one night i came over all funny, i do blame effexor for it. i aint the only one.. then ssri's were given to me and they just didnt help me at all.. lustral (zoloft) was the only one that did BUT raised my heart rate.. i am afraid that the reboxetine will somehow make me brain dead or something... i am scared i dont understand enough about snri's i know they affect the motivation but i am ok motivated.. just my anxiety and brain fog... all the ssir's i have tried have damaged my brain somehow... someone tell me whats the differnece?
Posted by whiterabbit on July 7, 2003, at 1:38:59
In reply to Re: SEVERE BRAIN FOG Edgefield, posted by crazychickuk on July 6, 2003, at 9:39:02
I know how you feel & it's frightening, but you
are NOT brain-damaged. So forget that right now
and let me tell you what you should do & not do.
Once you understand what's happening to you, it's not so spooky.What you should NOT do is to keep switching medications because this will only make things worse for you. Most of these psychiatric drugs are not fast-acting, it takes them quite a long time to really kick in and improvement comes slooooowly in tiny bits and pieces, you won't notice big dramatic changes. What I suggest you do is to stay on the medication you're taking now
even though you feel like hell, because you're going through the hard part right now and since you've come this far, you might as well stick with it. YOU WON'T ALWAYS FEEL LIKE YOU DO NOW.
Try to remember that...the brain fog DOES go away.
See, that medication is hard at work in your mind, shifting things around and lining up the troops to work better, and while this process is going on you feel confused and dull and can't remember things, it's not a good feeling at all.
I remember how it felt & it was damn scarey but looky here, if you KEEP taking your medication just like you're supposed to, the payoff IS coming. Little by little, as your body adjusts to the medication and the drug continues it's good work in your brain, ever so gradually the fog begins to lift. You start to feel better, you start using big words again, your thinking clears up, your memory returns, hallalujah here comes the sun. And when it's all over, you ARE rewarded for all the creepy stuff that you had to go through. You feel, well...you're like your old self but not really, because you feel a LOT better than your old self ever did. In fact you'll be surprised by the things you'll do and the feelings you have now that your brain is finally in good working order. Sometimes you stop
and think, by God I'm actually ENJOYING myself!
And I'm not even drunk!It's good to feel well, let me tell you. But it's kind of like being really sick with cancer, and then having to go through all these dreadful treatments that make you lose your hair and feel even worse than before you started treatment, but after the treatment is over and the cancer is gone, you have a new appreciation for life and good health that you never had before...and it makes you happy, even though it was a dreadful experience to go through.
So hang in there, girl. If you stop taking your medication, all the good things that were happening in your brain just fall apart and you have to start all over again with the next medication, and if you KEEP switching medications over a short period of time, the little neurotransmitters in your brain get confused as hell because each time you start over with a new drug, your brain cells get a new set of directions to follow and pretty soon they're all slamming around up there like bumper cars. So just hang with the stuff you're on now & I can promise you, it WILL get better. That part is coming.
In the meantime you can do a few things to help yourself feel better.
1.) Drink a lot of water. It helps flush the toxins from your system - VERY important when you're taking a lot of medication. That's why you always see people in the hospital hooked up to saline bags. The more water you drink, the better you'll feel so do whatever you have to do to get into the water habit. I take a lot of meds myself, so I carry around a big insulated go-cup with a cap and a straw and keep it filled with ice water. If that doesn't appeal to you, keep bottled water in the freezer and drink it as the ice melts. Or drink carbonated water with lemon.
Whatever works to make you drink that water...you'll start feeling better pretty quick.2.) Take a good multi-vitamin combination, not just the one-a-day jobbers - there's not enough in them to do squat no matter what the bottle says. I take Nature Made Maximin Pack, you can get it right there at Walgreens or whatever your town drugstore is. Antioxidants help your body deal with the by-products of medication that can sludge up your system - you wouldn't think liver function would affect your thinking but it does.
If you really want to kick-start your liver you can take milk thistle with your vitamins, I don't take it myself but my sister SWEARS by it.Good luck to you dear, better days are ahead.
-Gracie
Posted by Shawn. T. on July 7, 2003, at 5:01:11
In reply to SEVERE BRAIN FOG, posted by crazychickuk on July 5, 2003, at 17:52:00
The following links should provide some reassurance that reboxetine can effectively treat anxiety. If you have any questions related to any of the links, I could probably answer them. I know quite a bit about the pharmacology of SNRI's and things that are toxic to the brain; I can assure you that it's widely agreed upon that reboxotine cannot induce brain damage.
Shawn
Reboxetine and anxiety:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=12172338&dopt=AbstractReboxetine and panic disorder:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=12415550&dopt=AbstractReboxetine and depression/anxiety (multitrial review):
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11890185&dopt=AbstractReboxetine and anxiety/panix disorder:
http://www.nimh.nih.gov/ncdeu/abstracts2001/ncdeu3051.cfm
Posted by Edgefield on July 7, 2003, at 17:24:46
In reply to Calm down sweetie, it's not that bad » crazychickuk, posted by whiterabbit on July 7, 2003, at 1:38:59
Thank you, thank you, thank you...I needed to read this post. It is one of those days when I just feel like crying. I know that my derealization is almost totally gone, but that last bit is just....ughhhhhh.
I need to print this post and keep reading it until the sun comes out :)
God Bless
Posted by Edgefield on July 7, 2003, at 17:53:58
In reply to Calm down sweetie, it's not that bad » crazychickuk, posted by whiterabbit on July 7, 2003, at 1:38:59
May I ask what meds. you are taking?
Posted by whiterabbit on July 7, 2003, at 19:41:21
In reply to Re: Calm down sweetie, it's not that bad » whiterabbit, posted by Edgefield on July 7, 2003, at 17:53:58
Doctors just hand you scripts for these powerful drugs & don't go into nearly enough detail about how they work & what you can expect to feel - no wonder we freak out! I had to learn the hard way too, through experience & research. Fortunately for me I like to read...
Right now I'm on 400 mg Seroquel nightly, 60 mg Paxil (divided dose) & 10 mg tabs of dextroamphetamine x 3 daily for ADD. The Seroquel was the most difficult to adjust to but I'm glad I stayed with it because I was REALLY a mess -
couldn't sleep, crying all the time, panic attacks, terrible anxiety - uck, it gives me chills to remember how bad I was. The Seroquel helped me calm down and let me sleep, it took care of the mania and Paxil helped clean up the depression. The ADD meds are just frosting on the cake, I'm focusing a lot better. This psychiatrist I have now (#4) is sharp, I really like him. He doesn't like the amount of Paxil that I'm on (from #3) but he wanted to see how I responded to the ADD stuff first without adding the variable of decreasing another med.So I'm doing good now, really well. Sure took a long time to get here though!
-Gracie
Posted by crazychickuk on July 8, 2003, at 18:11:40
In reply to Welcome 8-) » Edgefield, posted by whiterabbit on July 7, 2003, at 19:41:21
Well, Well, i had my second eeg today last one i had was novemeber last year, i laid down for mine last year today i sat on a chair and when it came for me to do my deep breathing god i felt all light headed and dizzzy i stopped after 10 sec had to do it for 3 mins i couldnt i had to stop, then i freaked out my heart was pounding, the technician and the nurse were whispering then when it was all over and i walked out they said they will compare this test with the last one, i reckon it will be bad, i feel awfully brain fogged confused etc, i felt this way few weeks before the eeg anyways.. my head is aching all over, i am worrying about everything now, not on any meds at the moment last med was an ssr which i had to stop in feburary cus of raised hrt rate, i been given REBOXETINE i am going to start tommorrow, i am dreading it as it is an snri and the last snri i was taking for mild depression gave me this anxiety... which NO ssri's i have helped with, i am so paranoid and feel i am loosing my mind badly and especially what happened today, o well i am going to start the reboxetine tommorrow as my brain fog is bad ... i dont feel real at all, i am so bad, i been given 4mg i am gonna take 2 mg for a week then i will go up to 4mg.... got to go to docs monday for check up n e ways.... i just wish that they will work.. i will keep yall posted..
Thanx for the replys plse keep posting also..
Posted by zeugma on July 8, 2003, at 20:38:02
In reply to SERIOUS BRAIN FOG, posted by crazychickuk on July 8, 2003, at 18:11:40
Hi again crazychick,
I think starting on 2 mg sounds like a good plan. I don't think you need to worry that the reboxetine will be like the SSRI's or Effexor: drugs that only or mostly affect norepinephrine are excellent at cutting through the fog. It may also help with your panic attacks. Letus know how it goes.
z
Posted by bbmod on July 13, 2003, at 15:28:32
In reply to Calm down sweetie, it's not that bad » crazychickuk, posted by whiterabbit on July 7, 2003, at 1:38:59
Thank you, Gracie. Your post is incredibly reassuring and calming. Like Edgefield, I'm going to print it and re-read daily. It's as good as your vitamins. :-) I totally agree about the tendency to panic and jump to another med too quickly, never giving it the full opportunity to work. I'm thinking the word patience and ADD are not compatible, but that's what makes the ADD person so creative and bright! :-)
Take care and again, thanks for sharing.
Posted by whiterabbit on July 13, 2003, at 19:55:02
In reply to Calm........ » whiterabbit, posted by bbmod on July 13, 2003, at 15:28:32
This is the end of the thread.
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