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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 18 of 18. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by ROO on June 25, 2003, at 8:44:42
Just wanted to share that I've been in a terrible
depression for a long time (very suicidal for about a year)
and it's finally starting to lift and I'm feeling normal
again. I was losing hope that it would ever happen. Actually
I had lost hope. I think part of my problem was being on Topamax
for so long, and suspecting that maybe it was making me feel worse,
but doubting myself and trying to be a "good" patient and stay on
the drug to please my pdoc, who feels I never give things a chance.
Anyway, I finally said "I've had it with this" and went off the topamax
and feel much better....but the thing that I think really might be
helping me is this Amino Acid program I started with a medical doctor who
is also into alternative treatments. He tested my neurotransmitter levels
so we could see exactly what I was low in, which was very interesting--I didn't
even know there was such a test. I was very low in seratonin, and also low
(but not quite as low) in epinephrine and norepinephrine was "suboptimal"....dopamine
was slightly elevated. I just started taking these amino acids--it hasn't even been a
month and I feel more energetic (I don't have an urge to nap), my appetite seems
more regulated, and I feel more confident. Right now, I'm in what they
call "The conditioning phase", taking this stuff called NeuroReplete-S which
"contains precursors for the catecholamine and seratonin system with an
emphasis on seratonin system"...I noticed it's active ingredients were
phenylalanine and 5htp and some vitamins, I guess to make those 2 things work more
efficiently. Later, we're going to add this stuff called "Balance D" which is used to balance
dopamine....and there's 2 other phases with different amino acids that work
on epinephrine....I won't go into it all because it takes too much time.
I basically wanted to share that amino acids are helping me a lot, in a short amount
of time, and that anyone out there interested in alternative treatments might
want to check them out. I hope to continue to feel better and better. I still take
5 mg's of lexapro...but I think the supplements are allowing me to take a lower dose
and I don't get hardly any sexual side effects that way, which is great. Phenylalanine,
I've read, can also be a sex booster for some people. It's very interesting to read about
phenylalanine on the web.
Posted by Sabina on June 25, 2003, at 9:00:20
In reply to Amino Acids are Helping Me, posted by ROO on June 25, 2003, at 8:44:42
Please keep us posted on your progress. I'm very interested in trying a naturopathic program like this one. Good luck!
Posted by Capri on June 25, 2003, at 9:21:44
In reply to Amino Acids are Helping Me, posted by ROO on June 25, 2003, at 8:44:42
Hi,
Just curious on the test for Neurotransmitters. I was told a few years ago that eventually the doc's would be able to test for this but it seemed like it was years and years down the road.
What type of doc did you see? Where do you purchase the Amino Acids you are taking?
Any info would be helpful. Thanks!
Posted by ROO on June 25, 2003, at 9:31:50
In reply to Re: Amino Acids are Helping Me, posted by Capri on June 25, 2003, at 9:21:44
Re: The test....I know! that's what I thought (that it
would be years down the road that they could test), but apparently
not. The test is expensive, however, so if you don't have insurance
or a doctor that will word it in such a way that it gets covered...it's
alot to pay out of pocket. The doctor gave me a kit to take home
and I had to give urine and saliva samples at certain times of the day...
then I sent it to this place called NeuroScience, and the tests are
performed by a lab called Pharmasan Labs. There's a website for Pharmasan Labs.
I think NeuroScience is a separate facility, and I didn't get any hits when I put
it in Google. My p-doc said normally they test these levels through spinal fluids...
I don't know if she was questioning the validity of the test or not. (I went to a different
doctor other than my pdoc for this stuff). All I know is I feel better and I'm glad.All I have with me right now is a number for Technical Support at NeuroScience, but if you called
them, maybe they could direct you to a doctor in your area that is into this stuff.
I can give it to you if you want. Not sure if they could help you.I also noticed some sites on the web once I started to research this stuff where you can
buy these neurotransmitter testing kits....but I really wouldn't do any of this without a
doctor....
Posted by McPac on June 25, 2003, at 17:39:40
In reply to Amino Acids are Helping Me, posted by ROO on June 25, 2003, at 8:44:42
I believe the test is called a "BEAM" test...I'll bet the Topomax made you feel like crap too and getting off, for YOU, was probably a good thing.
Posted by McPac on June 25, 2003, at 17:41:36
In reply to Amino Acids are Helping Me, posted by ROO on June 25, 2003, at 8:44:42
I've had this info for awhile....take a look........
I think you should see Dr. Eric Braverman at his medical center in NY. He SPECIALIZES in problems like yours and he uses a special test called BEAM which can determine precisely what levels of neurotransmitters you have, what speed your brain is operating at, and can even diagnose alzheimers, parkinson's, bi-polar, and ADD years before these conditions actually show up. The test can even determine which nutrients and medications would be useful thererby minimizing side-effects and time wasted on testing out different nutrients and medications.
Posted by stjames on June 25, 2003, at 18:04:24
In reply to Re: Amino Acids are Helping Me, posted by McPac on June 25, 2003, at 17:41:36
He SPECIALIZES in problems like yours and he uses a special test called BEAM which can determine precisely what levels of neurotransmitters you have,
BEAM is still experimental. Not to mention it is not "levels" of neurotransmitters that cause mental illness.
Posted by male34 on June 25, 2003, at 18:15:07
In reply to Amino Acids are Helping Me, posted by ROO on June 25, 2003, at 8:44:42
roo go check out,dr earl mindells paperback book vitamin bible and or supplement bible its very good and supplements are very good but just read carefull some things dont mix study first and check with dr, as for you your great I dont want to hear any negative thoughts from you we need you around your our friend stay strong mind body and sould god bless Ill pray for ya, youll be fine TRUST-ME! I believe in you!
Posted by McPac on June 25, 2003, at 21:23:55
In reply to Re: Amino Acids are Helping Me, posted by McPac on June 25, 2003, at 17:41:36
Roo, the info that I posted for you and certain others was sent to me a while back...hope it helps others too, raising those serotonin levels sure helps lol, most people feel much better after having their serotonin levels raised, lolol, I know I've always felt much better when my serotonin levels are raised, lol, serotonin...serotonin...raise....those....levels.....figures you had low serotonin!.....that was a no-doubter, lol.....glad you're feeling better and keep those serotonin levels raised appropriately...lolololol!!!!!!!!!Ace is still the Nardil Heavyweight Champion too! He increased his serotonin levels too! lolololol!!!!
Posted by McPac on June 25, 2003, at 21:26:06
In reply to Re: Amino Acids are Helping Me, posted by male34 on June 25, 2003, at 18:15:07
Glad to hear you are feeling better dude!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by McPac on June 25, 2003, at 21:32:03
In reply to Re: Amino Acids are Helping Me, posted by male34 on June 25, 2003, at 18:15:07
Make sure your serotonin levels don't get toooo high though....kinda like having too much Pork 'n Beans.....might start passing out more gas than a Sunoco station....lolol
Posted by Larry Hoover on June 29, 2003, at 8:14:06
In reply to Re: Amino Acids are Helping Me, posted by McPac on June 25, 2003, at 17:41:36
> I've had this info for awhile....take a look........
>
> I think you should see Dr. Eric Braverman at his medical center in NY. He SPECIALIZES in problems like yours and he uses a special test called BEAM which can determine precisely what levels of neurotransmitters you have, what speed your brain is operating at, and can even diagnose alzheimers, parkinson's, bi-polar, and ADD years before these conditions actually show up. The test can even determine which nutrients and medications would be useful thererby minimizing side-effects and time wasted on testing out different nutrients and medications.
>
>Brain Electrical Activity Mapping (BEAM)is not a test of neurotransmitter levels. There are well-known differences in regional brain activity levels in the mentally ill. A person with depression will have characteristic deficits in activity in some regions, and also, hyperactivity in others. I can't see how BEAM adds anything to diagnosis and treatment.
Just trying to be accurate.
Lar
Posted by Larry Hoover on June 29, 2003, at 8:38:36
In reply to Re: Amino Acids are Helping Me--Capri, posted by ROO on June 25, 2003, at 9:31:50
> Re: The test....I know! that's what I thought (that it
> would be years down the road that they could test), but apparently
> not. The test is expensive, however, so if you don't have insurance
> or a doctor that will word it in such a way that it gets covered...it's
> alot to pay out of pocket. The doctor gave me a kit to take home
> and I had to give urine and saliva samples at certain times of the day...
> then I sent it to this place called NeuroScience, and the tests are
> performed by a lab called Pharmasan Labs. There's a website for Pharmasan Labs.
> I think NeuroScience is a separate facility, and I didn't get any hits when I put
> it in Google. My p-doc said normally they test these levels through spinal fluids...
> I don't know if she was questioning the validity of the test or not. (I went to a different
> doctor other than my pdoc for this stuff). All I know is I feel better and I'm glad.Very kewl!
> All I have with me right now is a number for Technical Support at NeuroScience, but if you called
> them, maybe they could direct you to a doctor in your area that is into this stuff.
> I can give it to you if you want. Not sure if they could help you.
>
> I also noticed some sites on the web once I started to research this stuff where you can
> buy these neurotransmitter testing kits....but I really wouldn't do any of this without a
> doctor....
>ROO, I'm really happy you're feeling better. I have great faith in nutritional supports for mental illness.
However, your description of the testing and treatment you received raises some red flags for me. Permit me, please, to present a cynical view....
Unless your doctor has discovered a novel testing procedure, and kept the information to himself, there is no test for neurotransmitter levels which does not sample cerebro-spinal fluid (via a spinal tap). Even that test is inferential, by which I mean there is no neurotransmitter present in the fluid, but instead, breakdown products (metabolites) of the neurotransmitters are present. Their concentrations can be related back to the amount of individual neurotransmitters being released in the brain as a whole, but don't tell you if the brain is functioning normally. Some parts of the brains are over active, and some under active, in depressed people. These would obviously cancel each other out when you're looking at sums.
Urine tests will tell you an even more "distant" measure of brain neurotransmitter release, because the waste from the cerebro-spinal fluid eventually makes it into the urine. However, the rest of the body uses the same neurotransmitters for other purposes (e.g. the rhythmic contraction of the gut that moves food through from stomach to intestine to bowel is regulated by serotonin). The waste from these other processes also enters the urine. So, the urine has less "information" about brain function than even cerebro-spinal fluid has.
Saliva tests can determine e.g. cortisol and DHEA levels, which are important diagnostic measures, but symptoms might possibly reveal the same information. Still, a good test, if that's what the saliva was used for.
Now, another "red flag" for me is that the doctor provided, or made available, the supplements you were to add to your diet. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that, but he's surely profiting all over the place. I'm sure he gets a cut from the testing, and from the supplements.
The best thing you can do, for a long-term plan, for your own well-being, is to find out exactly what's in those supplements you're using, and take control of your intake of these substances. You don't need fancy premixed brand-name supplements (expensive). You need nutrients.
I know it's complicated, but everyone learns things a bit at a time. With the success you're experiencing, I hope you begin the path to understanding why it works for you.
All the best,
Lar
Posted by McPac on June 30, 2003, at 1:14:42
In reply to Re: About BEAM » McPac, posted by Larry Hoover on June 29, 2003, at 8:14:06
Thanks Lar!
I copied that info from another site (the poster was very knowledgeable on supps/health matters......maybe not that time though???)
Posted by rfied on May 3, 2005, at 11:52:24
In reply to Re: About BEAM » McPac, posted by Larry Hoover on June 29, 2003, at 8:14:06
> >
> >
> >
>
> Brain Electrical Activity Mapping (BEAM)is not a test of neurotransmitter levels. There are well-known differences in regional brain activity levels in the mentally ill. A person with depression will have characteristic deficits in activity in some regions, and also, hyperactivity in others. I can't see how BEAM adds anything to diagnosis and treatment.
>
> Just trying to be accurate.
>
> Lar
>
> Do you still feel this way about BEAM, is there any test to get some clue on neurotransmitter defiencies etc???
>
Posted by Larry Hoover on May 4, 2005, at 7:24:21
In reply to Re: About BEAM » Larry Hoover, posted by rfied on May 3, 2005, at 11:52:24
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Brain Electrical Activity Mapping (BEAM)is not a test of neurotransmitter levels. There are well-known differences in regional brain activity levels in the mentally ill. A person with depression will have characteristic deficits in activity in some regions, and also, hyperactivity in others. I can't see how BEAM adds anything to diagnosis and treatment.
> >
> > Just trying to be accurate.
> >
> > Lar
> >
> Do you still feel this way about BEAM, is there any test to get some clue on neurotransmitter defiencies etc???No, I do not. That doesn't prevent you from trying alternative strategies targetted at specific "deficiencies", based on symptom clusters, though.
Lots on alternative>
Lar
Posted by rfied on June 28, 2005, at 15:01:30
In reply to Re: Amino Acids are Helping Me, posted by McPac on June 25, 2003, at 17:41:36
please be wary of Dr Braverman, he is very self absorbed and a great self promoter ( larry King etc all the time), some patients have had not very positive experiences. I just took my daughter to NYC to see Dr Ronald Hoffman at Hoffman center, phenomenal attention, compassion etc. Nutritional doctor was best dr. experience I ever had. They do neuroScience urine test here as well, also did blood workups for deficiences etc. Highly reccomen them based on my initial visit, they see only 4 to 5 patients a day, whereas Braverman runs them in and out like crazy!!
Posted by reefer on June 30, 2005, at 21:38:54
In reply to Amino Acids are Helping Me, posted by ROO on June 25, 2003, at 8:44:42
First of all serotonin = high doesn't equal feeling good. This is a extremly complicated process and it's actually much more about balance than levels.
Second i want you to write down the ingredients of the supplements you are taking. Also take note of the amount. Then take your notes with you to a store and look at a can of Super Gainers Fuel or more or less any protein powder used for building muscle or losing fat. I think you will find that it contains more or less exactly what you are taking only it's much cheaper and comes in much higher levels in the protein powder. Exclude 5-HTP since it's not found naturally in milk/egg products.
Third: Is anything on TV-shop ever as good as they make it sound. After watching those commercials a couple of times even i wanna go buy the ab-swing or the fat-buster and the flying-blinking-super-lure. They(TV-Shop) and this doctor that can do those amazing things are pretty much the same people. But while TV-Shop brainwashes you the "good" doctor offers you something very powerful called placebo.
This is what i believe. Take supplements. They are good for you. But dont buy them from the doctor that offers them(or the AMWAY he is part of). In the end it's really up to you but my nose smells a scam here.
This is the end of the thread.
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