![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 23 to 47 of 47. Go back in thread:
Posted by chloe on June 16, 2003, at 11:21:41
In reply to Re: valium vs klonopin -- mixed states, posted by Viridis on June 16, 2003, at 2:01:28
>
> Another oil that I really like is hemp oil. It has a nice, nutty taste, and is the closest to fish oil you can get from a vegetable source. It's great in salad dressing (can't be heated, so no good for cooking). The best prices I've found are at www.iherb.com (but it is still kind of expensive).Hi,
Hemp oil sounds alot like faxseed oil, nutty flavor and you can't heat it. I am assuming it has EPA where FS Oil doesnt? I will look into it. I use Barlean's Flax seed oil. It's unbelievable expensive so I buy 32oz size and store unused in the freezer. I will give you the link if you are interested, though I don't think they sell hemp oil... :http://www.barleans.com/products/oils.html
>
> Re: real meds; give Klonopin a try -- at least for a couple of weeks, because you will probably need to get used to it (then no side effects at all, for me at least). Avoid the APs if you can; my impression is that these carry risks that don't occur with benzos. Benzos are great, because despite all the nonsense you see, they're extremely safe,clean meds. It's just that they're off-patent, so too inxpensive to warrant promotion.Your last sentence is interesting...
Yes, I try to avoid AP's at all costs. I take them only when necessary, about once a week when the suicadal thoughts get out of control or my thinking is so skewed, I can't understand people. I can get very paranoid. But I also have permanent tongue movements and bruxism from use of APs over the years. SOO, I am hoping a "better" benzo might keep me from going up or down so much that I end up in a scary mixed state. I bet my pdoc goes for it and I can give K a try...I'll know on thursday.
Thanks alot,
Chloe>
Posted by chloe on June 16, 2003, at 11:36:04
In reply to Re: valium vs klonopin? » Chloe, posted by Ritch on June 16, 2003, at 9:43:12
> Chloe, the short half-life (12 hrs?) of Ativan (lorazepam) might be a problem for sure. The only other benzos I've taken chronically previously were chlordiazepoxide (Librium) and Valium and they both last much longer. OTOH, if I just take it at bedtime for sleep, and don't find the rebound anxiety (or rebound hypomania) annoying during the day that would suit me find. Too bad you had that paradoxical reaction-interesting that you didn't have that trouble with *others*. I am wondering about your thyroid situation as well. You may need to get an endocrinologist involved with your pdoc to straighten those out. Let us know how your appt. goes with the pdoc about the Klonopin----good luck---Mitch
Hi Mitch,
I think Lorazapam has a half life of about 8-24 hours, depending on how you metabolize it. It also peaks in 3-4 hours. So, like you said, perhaps taking it at night, you could avoid any rebound or crash. I believe, for the "average" user!, it is far less sedating and depressive than librium, valium or klonopin.Do you see you med person soon? I know you are thinking about also adding some lamictal (eventually) to the mix too...
Chloe
Posted by Ritch on June 16, 2003, at 13:16:57
In reply to Re: valium vs klonopin? » Ritch, posted by chloe on June 16, 2003, at 11:36:04
> > Chloe, the short half-life (12 hrs?) of Ativan (lorazepam) might be a problem for sure. The only other benzos I've taken chronically previously were chlordiazepoxide (Librium) and Valium and they both last much longer. OTOH, if I just take it at bedtime for sleep, and don't find the rebound anxiety (or rebound hypomania) annoying during the day that would suit me find. Too bad you had that paradoxical reaction-interesting that you didn't have that trouble with *others*. I am wondering about your thyroid situation as well. You may need to get an endocrinologist involved with your pdoc to straighten those out. Let us know how your appt. goes with the pdoc about the Klonopin----good luck---Mitch
>
> Hi Mitch,
> I think Lorazapam has a half life of about 8-24 hours, depending on how you metabolize it. It also peaks in 3-4 hours. So, like you said, perhaps taking it at night, you could avoid any rebound or crash. I believe, for the "average" user!, it is far less sedating and depressive than librium, valium or klonopin.
>
> Do you see you med person soon? I know you are thinking about also adding some lamictal (eventually) to the mix too...
> Chloe
Chloe, I'm holding with Depakote 250mg ER + Klonopin .5mg HS, and a microdose of Effexor in the AM, and added 3.75mg buspirone last visit as an experiment for GAD sx and to boost the Effexor (without needing to increase it). It made my early morning awakening WORSE when I took it at bedtime. Switched to taking it only first thing in the AM. That has helped some. I will give it a full two-three weeks and if there isn't a clear trend towards improving sleep (startup effects?), it is going to get ditched. Then perhaps we'll talk about the possible lorazepam switch. I have a feeling that using low-dose lorazepam as a sleeper will work better than the clon. and I will have more energy the next day. Lamictal? I don't want to tinker with that idea until this upcoming spell is fully over with (when I'm stable in the fall). I'm already gaining weight and having carb craving, YUCK!
Posted by chloe on June 16, 2003, at 20:13:21
In reply to Re: valium vs klonopin? » chloe, posted by Ritch on June 16, 2003, at 13:16:57
> Chloe, I'm holding with Depakote 250mg ER + Klonopin .5mg HS, and a microdose of Effexor in the AM, and added 3.75mg buspirone last visit as an experiment for GAD sx and to boost the Effexor (without needing to increase it). It made my early morning awakening WORSE when I took it at bedtime. Switched to taking it only first thing in the AM. That has helped some. I will give it a full two-three weeks and if there isn't a clear trend towards improving sleep (startup effects?), it is going to get ditched. Then perhaps we'll talk about the possible lorazepam switch. I have a feeling that using low-dose lorazepam as a sleeper will work better than the clon. and I will have more energy the next day. Lamictal? I don't want to tinker with that idea until this upcoming spell is fully over with (when I'm stable in the fall). I'm already gaining weight and having carb craving, YUCK!
Hi Mitch,
It seems all the rules that held true during the spring, emotionally, no longer apply, at least for me. Could some of the increased E.M waking also have to do with the increased amount of daylight? I awaken as soon as the sun emerges over the horizon, and now that's about 4:58 am UUGH! In the winter I can sleep til 10 am without stirring once. That is a gift!Yes, I would wait on the lamictal too. Lamictal is a biggy. You have to wait a long to hit therapeutic dose, and you do have to be on the look out for major side effects.
Hey one K question: How long does it take to kick in? I took 5 mg Valium prn yesterday (6pm) and felt nothing at all, no help. But today I have felt so fluish and tired, hard to move. I do have terrible hayfever, so it could be that...Or do you think it could be hangover effect? How long does Klonopin take to work generally? Any hangover effects?
Thanks
Chloe
Posted by Ritch on June 16, 2003, at 23:43:42
In reply to Re: valium vs klonopin? » Ritch, posted by chloe on June 16, 2003, at 20:13:21
> Hi Mitch,
> It seems all the rules that held true during the spring, emotionally, no longer apply, at least for me. Could some of the increased E.M waking also have to do with the increased amount of daylight? I awaken as soon as the sun emerges over the horizon, and now that's about 4:58 am UUGH! In the winter I can sleep til 10 am without stirring once. That is a gift!OK, I always used to have trouble with the sun waking me up too early as well in late Spring and early Summer. So, I got blackout material and put it over my windows and set my alarm clock for the same time every day (9AM). I think it has helped somewhat. But I think it just makes it easier AFTER an early-morning awakening to get BACK to sleep to get another hour or two in so I'm not as sleep deprived. I don't think it *prevents* an EMA. When I get an EMA, it is nearly a full hour before the light is increased. The birds start in early as they can. I remember when I was in college the first time and didn't have an air conditioner (so windows were open all the time with fans running), and the birds would start doing their thing just before the sun came up. I can hear them now through closed windows in the mornings-do you think the *sound* of the birds chirping (crickets-whatever) is filtering in while I am tring to sleep, maybe triggering a subconscious wake reaction?
> Hey one K question: How long does it take to kick in? I took 5 mg Valium prn yesterday (6pm) and felt nothing at all, no help. But today I have felt so fluish and tired, hard to move. I do have terrible hayfever, so it could be that...Or do you think it could be hangover effect? How long does Klonopin take to work generally? Any hangover effects?
> Thanks
> Chloe
>
Benzos always "kicked-in" right away for me-no matter which ones they were. It might take more or less depending on the symptoms that were being treated. I wonder if your troubles have to do with your thyroid status and that until you get that figured/straightened out the BZD's are a secondary issue??
Posted by chloe on June 17, 2003, at 14:29:07
In reply to Re: valium vs klonopin? » chloe, posted by Ritch on June 16, 2003, at 23:43:42
> > Hi Mitch,
> > It seems all the rules that held true during the spring, emotionally, no longer apply, at least for me. Could some of the increased E.M waking also have to do with the increased amount of daylight? I awaken as soon as the sun emerges over the horizon, and now that's about 4:58 am UUGH! In the winter I can sleep til 10 am without stirring once. That is a gift!
>
> OK, I always used to have trouble with the sun waking me up too early as well in late Spring and early Summer. So, I got blackout material and put it over my windows and set my alarm clock for the same time every day (9AM). I think it has helped somewhat. But I think it just makes it easier AFTER an early-morning awakening to get BACK to sleep to get another hour or two in so I'm not as sleep deprived. I don't think it *prevents* an EMA. When I get an EMA, it is nearly a full hour before the light is increased. The birds start in early as they can. I remember when I was in college the first time and didn't have an air conditioner (so windows were open all the time with fans running), and the birds would start doing their thing just before the sun came up. I can hear them now through closed windows in the mornings-do you think the *sound* of the birds chirping (crickets-whatever) is filtering in while I am tring to sleep, maybe triggering a subconscious wake reaction?Hi Mitch,
I have no idea what is that makes up awaken for no good reason. I just blame it on this time of year. Perhaps it more complicated...
>
>
> > Hey one K question: How long does it take to kick in? I took 5 mg Valium prn yesterday (6pm) and felt nothing at all, no help. But today I have felt so fluish and tired, hard to move. I do have terrible hayfever, so it could be that...Or do you think it could be hangover effect? How long does Klonopin take to work generally? Any hangover effects?
> > Thanks
> > Chloe
> >
>
>
> Benzos always "kicked-in" right away for me-no matter which ones they were. It might take more or less depending on the symptoms that were being treated. I wonder if your troubles have to do with your thyroid status and that until you get that figured/straightened out the BZD's are a secondary issue??Yes, thyroid definitely has to be addressed too. I think my pdoc will get an earful about that from me on thursday. I am so angry that she continues me on a med (T3) that she doesn't even monitor..GRRR. But that seems like SOP for checking labs. Monitoring Li once a year or less seems to be the norm now. I remember when it was once a month! I know my thryoid should be checked more than every 8 months, esp. when the values are off!! I am going to get this worked out...thanks for the reminder.
Chloe
>
Posted by Ritch on June 17, 2003, at 23:24:58
In reply to Re: valium vs klonopin? » Ritch, posted by chloe on June 17, 2003, at 14:29:07
Posted by chloe on June 19, 2003, at 17:37:58
In reply to Let us know how your appt. goes.... (nm) » chloe, posted by Ritch on June 17, 2003, at 23:24:58
Hi
The appointment went ok. My pdoc agreed that a trial of clonazapam would be good. She said there are lots of studies proving Klonopin useful for anxiety, mixed states, rage, but little with Valium (probably because it can be so abused). So it was hard for her to truly know which works better. But she said if I were try a benzo for the first time now, Klonopin would probably the first choice. So I am trying 1 mgs clonaz. in place of my 5 of valium tonight, then after a week switch my am dose of V to clonaz, etc. She said a goal of 2-3 mgs seemed reasonable.
I am glad she was willing to make a change.She did NOT want to change my 5mcgs T3 until I see the endo she has lined up for me. Though she has not been able to get me an appointment for over 2 months, and my pdoc is the chief of psych. in the hospital. I don't see why I can't see someone else...But apparently this endo is very good with thyroid and female hormone issue (which maybe alot of my problem. I have amazing irregular and difficult period cycles). So I have to stick it out with the T3, but I do have a lab slip to get Li, TSH, T3 and T4 checked, yeah! So at least we won't be in the dark where I stand physically.
My pdoc didn't really have any other ideas of how to calm my cycling. Though she does hope TMS will be FDA approved, and will be available soon. She says since ECT was so useful for me, TMS maybe something helpful to me. It's worth investing, I guess... So, I have to just keep taking the lithium, and specks of doxepin and T3 and hope that the clonazapam has a more powerful effect of agitation and irritability without making me too depressed! Any thoughts Mitch?
Well, I guess that is it in a nut shell
Chloe
Posted by pseudonym on June 20, 2003, at 0:53:58
In reply to My med appointment-not alot of options, posted by chloe on June 19, 2003, at 17:37:58
Lets do some math here. You're quadrupling your benzo dose by going from 5mg V to 1mg K.
5mg Valium is equal to .25mg K, and you're doing directly to 1 on your way to 2 or 3? Perhaps a lateral move would be more advised, such as going to .25 mg K twice a day, which would only be doubling your dose.
Posted by Chloe on June 20, 2003, at 12:27:20
In reply to Re: My med appointment-not alot of options, posted by pseudonym on June 20, 2003, at 0:53:58
> Lets do some math here. You're quadrupling your benzo dose by going from 5mg V to 1mg K.
>
> 5mg Valium is equal to .25mg K, and you're doing directly to 1 on your way to 2 or 3? Perhaps a lateral move would be more advised, such as going to .25 mg K twice a day, which would only be doubling your dose.Hi,
My pdoc didn't think that .25 mgs of K was going to be equal to 5 V since I have been on V for 15 or more years. She thought since I was well habituated to V, that I could easily switch 5 V for 1 K. Perhaps this is too much, but I took 1 K last night and I am not zonked or hungover. My only minor complaint is a mild headache.
Bottomline, I believe my pdoc thinks the crossover charts for V and K are too low. Maybe because of their long halflives? I don't know. But thanks for pointing this out. And if it's I start feeling zoned out or crumby I will have a good idea why!
Chloe
Posted by Maxime on June 20, 2003, at 16:49:02
In reply to Re: My med appointment-not alot of options » pseudonym, posted by Chloe on June 20, 2003, at 12:27:20
Other than Lithium, have you tried any of the other mood stabilisers out there?
Max
Posted by Chloe on June 20, 2003, at 17:01:19
In reply to Re: My med appointment-not alot of options-Chloe, posted by Maxime on June 20, 2003, at 16:49:02
> Other than Lithium, have you tried any of the other mood stabilisers out there?
>
> MaxYes, literally all--depakote, tegratol, trileptal, topamax, Lamictal, neurontin...blah, blah on it goes. Most stabilizers give me terrible skin and scalp pain-like I am on fire. Some worked ok, but the side effects are just intolerable. Lithium is the best so far...But it's "pooping out" a bit in the cycling area which is very difficult.
I hope Klonopin can settle things down a bit. Perhaps it's unlikely. But as I said, I have few options left.
Chloe
Posted by Maxime on June 20, 2003, at 17:35:18
In reply to Re: My med appointment-not alot of options-Chloe » Maxime, posted by Chloe on June 20, 2003, at 17:01:19
Never say never! Who knows, Klonopin may be the one.
I have been on every mood stabiliser and anti-psychotic. I am trying Lamictal now and if doesn't work then I am left with Trileptal. It's scary when you feel like you have are running out of things to try.
Also, maybe when pregabalin comes out it would be worth you trying.
Hang in there.
Max
Posted by Emme on June 20, 2003, at 22:12:26
In reply to My med appointment-not alot of options, posted by chloe on June 19, 2003, at 17:37:58
Posted by Chloe on June 20, 2003, at 23:36:20
In reply to Re: My med appointment-not alot of options-Chloe, posted by Maxime on June 20, 2003, at 17:35:18
Thank you Max and Emme.
Your support and encouragement means so much. It's easy to get discouraged and forget you are not alone.
Thanks again
Chloe
Posted by Ritch on June 21, 2003, at 17:57:12
In reply to My med appointment-not alot of options, posted by chloe on June 19, 2003, at 17:37:58
> Hi
> The appointment went ok. My pdoc agreed that a trial of clonazapam would be good. She said there are lots of studies proving Klonopin useful for anxiety, mixed states, rage, but little with Valium (probably because it can be so abused). So it was hard for her to truly know which works better. But she said if I were try a benzo for the first time now, Klonopin would probably the first choice. So I am trying 1 mgs clonaz. in place of my 5 of valium tonight, then after a week switch my am dose of V to clonaz, etc. She said a goal of 2-3 mgs seemed reasonable.
> I am glad she was willing to make a change.
>
> She did NOT want to change my 5mcgs T3 until I see the endo she has lined up for me. Though she has not been able to get me an appointment for over 2 months, and my pdoc is the chief of psych. in the hospital. I don't see why I can't see someone else...But apparently this endo is very good with thyroid and female hormone issue (which maybe alot of my problem. I have amazing irregular and difficult period cycles). So I have to stick it out with the T3, but I do have a lab slip to get Li, TSH, T3 and T4 checked, yeah! So at least we won't be in the dark where I stand physically.
>
> My pdoc didn't really have any other ideas of how to calm my cycling. Though she does hope TMS will be FDA approved, and will be available soon. She says since ECT was so useful for me, TMS maybe something helpful to me. It's worth investing, I guess... So, I have to just keep taking the lithium, and specks of doxepin and T3 and hope that the clonazapam has a more powerful effect of agitation and irritability without making me too depressed! Any thoughts Mitch?
> Well, I guess that is it in a nut shell
> ChloeWhoa! I missed your post entirely! I just now saw it-sorry. I am hopeful that you will find the clonazepam more helpful to settle your irritability. It works better than any other BZD I've tried for that particular problem. So, the equivalence (per your pdoc) is 5mg diazepam=1.0mg clonazepam? When I was on valium I was taking 2.5-5.0mg once-twice daily. As far as the depressogenic aspects go I found valium far more depressing than clonazepam. I think your next best bright spot will be when you get in to see your endo. and get that thyroid hassle all straightened out, IMO. TMS sounds interesting. I think that vagal nerve stimulator (they use for epilepsy) might be valuable for some people. Hang in there while you wait on your endo!--Mitch
Posted by chloe on June 21, 2003, at 21:46:44
In reply to Re: My med appointment-not alot of options » chloe, posted by Ritch on June 21, 2003, at 17:57:12
Hi Mitch
So far I really like the clonazapam. I have less of a hair trigger, I think...Pdoc wanted me to take 1mg for every 5mgs of Valium, but I took just .5 clonaz. and that was plenty. I want to slowly work my way up. I tend to have nasty reactions to new meds. And I couldn't find any conversions close to 1K=5V! As psuedonym pointed out that is quadrupelling the dose... I guess it all how it makes me feel. .5K seems to be equal to 5 V for me so far. Do you take a total of .5/day?
Yeah, I can't wait for the endo appointment. It sure can't hurt.
Hope you are doing ok
Chloe
Posted by Simcha on June 21, 2003, at 23:36:28
In reply to Re: My med appointment-not alot of options » Ritch, posted by chloe on June 21, 2003, at 21:46:44
>And I couldn't find any conversions close to 1K=5V! As psuedonym pointed out that is quadrupelling the dose... I guess it all how it makes me feel. .5K seems to be equal to 5 V for me so far.
According to this link there are differing opinions on the equivalence of benzos.
http://www.dr-bob.org/tips/bzd.html
The second chart on that link shows that 10mg of Diazepam(Valium) is equal to 2mg of Clonazepam(Klonopin)
Just thought I'd interject with this.
Posted by Ritch on June 22, 2003, at 10:56:02
In reply to Re: My med appointment-not alot of options » Ritch, posted by chloe on June 21, 2003, at 21:46:44
> Hi Mitch
> So far I really like the clonazapam. I have less of a hair trigger, I think...Pdoc wanted me to take 1mg for every 5mgs of Valium, but I took just .5 clonaz. and that was plenty. I want to slowly work my way up. I tend to have nasty reactions to new meds. And I couldn't find any conversions close to 1K=5V! As psuedonym pointed out that is quadrupelling the dose... I guess it all how it makes me feel. .5K seems to be equal to 5 V for me so far. Do you take a total of .5/day?
> Yeah, I can't wait for the endo appointment. It sure can't hurt.
> Hope you are doing ok
> ChloeYep, .5mg at bedtime (occasionally more). I'm really accustomed to taking it and don't feel much sedation from it anymore. If I'm needing to sleep-it doesn't help much to increase it. However, it still provides a definite antipanic effect despite other things wearing off. Yeah.. I think .5mg of Klon is more equivalent to 5mg of Valium.. from my experience with both anyhow (although at different times). Hey, the colors of the tabs match too! ;0) Valium would make me paradoxically hostile at times-never had that with clonazepam... perhaps at worst a "grumbly sullenness" if I was already depressed (not from the clon), but not sparky hostile. Oh... right now I've been having non-stop night after night sleep disruption since I started a little Buspar (I suggested it to my pdoc of course) a couple of weeks ago. I thought it might start to fade, but it is getting worse-I'm dropping the stuff as of today and return to what I was on before I added it-Depakote ER 250mg+Klon .5mg + tiny Effexor. It (buspirone) seemed to add a little energy during the day and I could pick out words better, but on balance it just seemed to make me a little shorter fused and sleep-deprived. I'm carefully logging all of this stuff one step at a time. I'll probably end up trying Lamictal (with the Depakote), OR adding some verapamil. I think I would like to try the verapamil first-because I seem to respond well to meds that affect Calcium channels for some reason. I'm already starting to switch gears mood-wise. It is a slow change from bubbly to tired-mixed-wired feelings. Maybe returning to my last combo (slight change) will fix this. I think if you can get an endo that will aggressively work with you on your thyroid stuff you'll feel much better. I would be interested to see if he adds T4 or switches to T4 instead. Let us know--take care----- Mitch
Posted by Maxime on June 22, 2003, at 20:06:05
In reply to Re: My med appointment-not alot of options » chloe, posted by Ritch on June 22, 2003, at 10:56:02
Hey there. You say that you are really sensitive to meds. I was just wondering if you had tried any of the "alternatives" like fish oil etc. to help your cycling.
Max
Posted by Ritch on June 22, 2003, at 23:08:56
In reply to Re: My med appointment-not alot of options Chloe, posted by Maxime on June 22, 2003, at 20:06:05
> Hey there. You say that you are really sensitive to meds. I was just wondering if you had tried any of the "alternatives" like fish oil etc. to help your cycling.
>
> MaxYes, I'm been taking about 1G of EPA every day for quite awhile now. It seemed to be doing something positive for the first few weeks, but the last few weeks it doesn't seem to make any difference. I'm continuing to take it because it isn't that expensive and it's good for your blood vessels and triglycerides. I get a little more benefit from L-tyrosine-but even that seems to poop out with chronic dosing. It seems to work better to try only during low energy parts of my cycle and then stop it when I feel better. The biggest thing I can do to improve cycling and mixed symptoms is to *avoid* the "wrong" meds. Sometimes it isn't easy to figure out what those are. But, if you are on chronic meds you can wind up with something that is causing as much trouble as the other meds are helping and nor really know it. The best predictor for me is whether a med is sleep-disruptive or not.
Posted by chloe on June 23, 2003, at 12:44:24
In reply to Re: My med appointment-not alot of options » chloe, posted by Ritch on June 22, 2003, at 10:56:02
> Yep, .5mg at bedtime (occasionally more). I'm really accustomed to taking it and don't feel much sedation from it anymore. If I'm needing to sleep-it doesn't help much to increase it. However, it still provides a definite antipanic effect despite other things wearing off. Yeah.. I think .5mg of Klon is more equivalent to 5mg of Valium.. from my experience with both anyhow (although at different times). Hey, the colors of the tabs match too! ;0) Valium would make me paradoxically hostile at times-never had that with clonazepam... perhaps at worst a "grumbly sullenness" if I was already depressed (not from the clon), but not sparky hostile. Oh... right now I've been having non-stop night after night sleep disruption since I started a little Buspar (I suggested it to my pdoc of course) a couple of weeks ago. I thought it might start to fade, but it is getting worse-I'm dropping the stuff as of today and return to what I was on before I added it-Depakote ER 250mg+Klon .5mg + tiny Effexor. It (buspirone) seemed to add a little energy during the day and I could pick out words better, but on balance it just seemed to make me a little shorter fused and sleep-deprived. I'm carefully logging all of this stuff one step at a time. I'll probably end up trying Lamictal (with the Depakote), OR adding some verapamil. I think I would like to try the verapamil first-because I seem to respond well to meds that affect Calcium channels for some reason. I'm already starting to switch gears mood-wise. It is a slow change from bubbly to tired-mixed-wired feelings. Maybe returning to my last combo (slight change) will fix this. I think if you can get an endo that will aggressively work with you on your thyroid stuff you'll feel much better. I would be interested to see if he adds T4 or switches to T4 instead. Let us know--take care----- MitchHi Mitch,
Definitely sounds like it's time to ditch the buspar. I hate AD's type meds. They mess up my sleep and give me dangerous short fuse. It's hard to keep control and feel comfortable in my body. 40 Doxepin is as high as I can go...I wish I could take more. The blues are so bad. To get through the summer my pdoc wants me on 25-50 of seroquel QD.She thinks if I have a steady level of it, not just prn, I might not cycle as much or bottom out, like I can in the summer. It was last early summer I was so depressed and suicidal I looked into and started ECT. So I may try her stragedy. The side effects are worrisome, but perhaps worth it. She believes AAP's with not worsen my tongue movement that I got on the typicals... But, I can't wait to see endo. I don't know why it's been so difficult to get an appointment, but my pdoc wants me to see one in her hospital so she can work with the endo.
The verapamil idea sounds like it might work. You don't have to wait for therapuetic levels and the like. I hope you start to sleep/feel better minus the buspar.
Thanks
Chloe
>
>
>
Posted by Ritch on June 23, 2003, at 13:47:16
In reply to Re: My med appointment-not alot of options » Ritch, posted by chloe on June 23, 2003, at 12:44:24
>
> > Yep, .5mg at bedtime (occasionally more). I'm really accustomed to taking it and don't feel much sedation from it anymore. If I'm needing to sleep-it doesn't help much to increase it. However, it still provides a definite antipanic effect despite other things wearing off. Yeah.. I think .5mg of Klon is more equivalent to 5mg of Valium.. from my experience with both anyhow (although at different times). Hey, the colors of the tabs match too! ;0) Valium would make me paradoxically hostile at times-never had that with clonazepam... perhaps at worst a "grumbly sullenness" if I was already depressed (not from the clon), but not sparky hostile. Oh... right now I've been having non-stop night after night sleep disruption since I started a little Buspar (I suggested it to my pdoc of course) a couple of weeks ago. I thought it might start to fade, but it is getting worse-I'm dropping the stuff as of today and return to what I was on before I added it-Depakote ER 250mg+Klon .5mg + tiny Effexor. It (buspirone) seemed to add a little energy during the day and I could pick out words better, but on balance it just seemed to make me a little shorter fused and sleep-deprived. I'm carefully logging all of this stuff one step at a time. I'll probably end up trying Lamictal (with the Depakote), OR adding some verapamil. I think I would like to try the verapamil first-because I seem to respond well to meds that affect Calcium channels for some reason. I'm already starting to switch gears mood-wise. It is a slow change from bubbly to tired-mixed-wired feelings. Maybe returning to my last combo (slight change) will fix this. I think if you can get an endo that will aggressively work with you on your thyroid stuff you'll feel much better. I would be interested to see if he adds T4 or switches to T4 instead. Let us know--take care----- Mitch
>
> Hi Mitch,
> Definitely sounds like it's time to ditch the buspar. I hate AD's type meds. They mess up my sleep and give me dangerous short fuse. It's hard to keep control and feel comfortable in my body. 40 Doxepin is as high as I can go...I wish I could take more. The blues are so bad. To get through the summer my pdoc wants me on 25-50 of seroquel QD.
>
> She thinks if I have a steady level of it, not just prn, I might not cycle as much or bottom out, like I can in the summer. It was last early summer I was so depressed and suicidal I looked into and started ECT. So I may try her stragedy. The side effects are worrisome, but perhaps worth it. She believes AAP's with not worsen my tongue movement that I got on the typicals... But, I can't wait to see endo. I don't know why it's been so difficult to get an appointment, but my pdoc wants me to see one in her hospital so she can work with the endo.
>
> The verapamil idea sounds like it might work. You don't have to wait for therapuetic levels and the like. I hope you start to sleep/feel better minus the buspar.
> Thanks
> Chloe
> >I agree with your pdoc about the steady level of Seroquel. I didn't get much EPS stuff from Seroquel, just couldn't handle the zoned feeling half the next day (difficult at work). That's GOOD that your pdoc wants to work with an endo within the same hospital. I think you are lucky you have a pdoc that wants to team with somebody in endocrinology to help you out. I've slept better the last two nights. I still wake at 4:00AM, but I'm going back to sleep, whereas I wasn't that successful before. The trick will be to get good sleep for a few nights and see if my cognition improves (it generally does). I want to avoid needing to add Wellbutrin this time. I would like to give verapamil a try-I'm really curious to see if I can just take a nighttime dose and see if it will help sleep. I might add back some Trileptal (it helped before), but it makes me so nauseous. You sound MUCH more stable than you did at this time last year-I think you will do OK. ----Mitch
Posted by chloe on June 23, 2003, at 22:22:58
In reply to Re: My med appointment-not alot of options » chloe, posted by Ritch on June 23, 2003, at 13:47:16
> I agree with your pdoc about the steady level of Seroquel. I didn't get much EPS stuff from Seroquel, just couldn't handle the zoned feeling half the next day (difficult at work). That's GOOD that your pdoc wants to work with an endo within the same hospital. I think you are lucky you have a pdoc that wants to team with somebody in endocrinology to help you out. I've slept better the last two nights. I still wake at 4:00AM, but I'm going back to sleep, whereas I wasn't that successful before. The trick will be to get good sleep for a few nights and see if my cognition improves (it generally does). I want to avoid needing to add Wellbutrin this time. I would like to give verapamil a try-I'm really curious to see if I can just take a nighttime dose and see if it will help sleep. I might add back some Trileptal (it helped before), but it makes me so nauseous. You sound MUCH more stable than you did at this time last year-I think you will do OK. ----Mitch
Hi Mitch,
I hope you get a couple of good night's sleep in a row, too. It looks like you have a few options to try if dropping out Buspar isn't enough...
Hey, that's really neat that we have "known" each other since at least last year. I am glad you think I sound better. I trust your recall alot more than mine! And appreciate your support!
I think things will go better for me this summer. The seroquel has helped some already
Take care,
Chloe
Posted by Ritch on June 24, 2003, at 0:39:58
In reply to Re: My med appointment-not alot of options » Ritch, posted by chloe on June 23, 2003, at 22:22:58
This is the end of the thread.
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