![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 24 of 24. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by danelor on May 30, 2003, at 13:19:22
When my doc switched me down to 75 mcg of Levoxyl and 10mcg of Cytomel and I get a TSH reading of 6.5, I was a little concerned. I used to take 150mcg of Levoxyl and then one of my Docs backed it down to 125mcg because my TSH went from th 4-5 range down to 3.8
If I follow the advice of many endoDoc's and try to get to a TSH of 1, I will probably be at or over 200mcg of Levoxyl. Is this unusual?
I'm curious as to what other people's T4 and T3 doses are.I'm hoping I can get a Doc to get me down to 1 TSH because I have felt depressed (mainly anhedonia and low energy) since my DX. This was a huge shift in my personality from which I have never fully recovered. It seems to me, if I were treated appropriately, I would return to normal. But of course it's a little hard to get treated appropriately when you have docs that dont know what cytomel is.
Posted by 2sense on May 30, 2003, at 14:17:50
In reply to T4/T3 doses, posted by danelor on May 30, 2003, at 13:19:22
Welcome!!
I have hypothyroidism from Hashimoto's. There is an excellent thyroid board, as well as message board. Very supportive, and all the issues you've touched on and more. Check it out.
I went undiagnosed for a long time. I had many, many miscarriages, and once finally diagnosed, had two hand surgeries for carpel tunnel, partial hysterectomy because of the heavy, heavy periods, and yes the depression. Still struggling ... new pdoc added Cytomel 01/03 and then lowered my Synthroid ... after 2 weeks I felt so much better, after 4-5 I was wow! Around 10 weeks I got the flu and it sort of seemed the depression came back. Am about to get another thyroid panel, but as good as my pdoc is (since 10/02) ... I need a really good endocrinologist who does thyroid/early, early peri-meno ... from the hormonal and someone who does conventional and 'natural'. Anyway ... this is * great * board! Welcome.
Main thyroid board (links to everything): http://thyroid.about.com/mbody.htm
Hypothyroid board (all related issues, like Cytomel, etc.) : http://thyroid.about.com/mpboards.htm
Oh, also ... Dr. Bob has the link to the on home page about thyroid ... it links to an article specifically about hypothyroidism (and TSH at 6.5 is hypo ... need free T4 and other ... the board has lots of info. .. you wrote your endo wants it at 1.0 .. you will see that to be right on the money. Anyway ... http://groups.yahoo.com/group/psycho-babble-tips/links/Noa_s_thyroid_links_000963272558/Dr__Bob_s_Psychophar_000963430230/
Just my ... 2sense
Posted by MB on May 30, 2003, at 16:04:08
In reply to T4/T3 doses, posted by danelor on May 30, 2003, at 13:19:22
In the early 90s, when it started to look like none of the SSRIs available were really working, my pdoc suggested Levoxyl augmentation. My TSH levels were tested and showed to be at the high end of the "normal range." I was put on 50mcg of Levoxyl, and still take it ten years later. One time in the late 90s, during a hospitilization, the pdoc took me off of it for two weeks, retested me, and confirmed that I did need the medication. Then I wondered if the test was valid, given that my natural T4 production might be suppressed after 6 years on the Levoxyl, but I stayed on the medication anyway. Now, with my sensitivity to heat, cardiac arrhythmias, discomfort in my neck, and discomfort behind my eyes, I'm wondering if the T4 is having deleterious effects on me. I actually went to a cardiologist for what felt like skipped beats followed by transient tachycardia. He said that was exactly what it was, and that it was normal for people on T4, given the fluctuations in blood levels throughout the day. This pissed me off. I don't want to be on this crap. A friend of mine who's been on T4 since childhood has developed some kind of malignant goiter. I don't know if there's a causal relationship, but I'm freaked. My neck hurts right where hers is swollen.
I recently had some tests done. My TSH is .6 uIU/mL. Isn't that a little low?
However, also while on medication, I had a "T4 free," a "T4 total" and a "T3 free" test done, all of which put me right smack dab in the middle of the "normal range." I guess I should believe the numbers, but something in my gut tells me to get off this stuff. It hasn't helped my depression or fatigue. Maybe if I tapered off gradually, I could regain my normal thyroid functions and not have to put up with these arrhythmias.
I'm just wondering if being on the medication for so long has suppressed my thyroid functions so that it only *looks* like I need the medication.
MB
Posted by danelor on May 30, 2003, at 16:47:46
In reply to Re: T4/T3 doses » danelor, posted by 2sense on May 30, 2003, at 14:17:50
>
Thanks for the links. I didn't have that "wow" reaction after getting on Cytomel. However, I believe that is because I was still undermedicated so that the T3 didn't help enough to be useful. Since the Endo Society has tightened the normal range of TSH to 3.0 - .35, I have never been in that range even on 150mcg of T4. On that dose I was just at 3.8
So it looks like a dose of 200mcg or more will be needed to hit the ideal rang of around 1. Just wondering if this is unusual and wanted other people to report their T4 and T3 doses to get an idea of what an average range is.Welcome!!
>
> I have hypothyroidism from Hashimoto's. There is an excellent thyroid board, as well as message board. Very supportive, and all the issues you've touched on and more. Check it out.
>
> I went undiagnosed for a long time. I had many, many miscarriages, and once finally diagnosed, had two hand surgeries for carpel tunnel, partial hysterectomy because of the heavy, heavy periods, and yes the depression. Still struggling ... new pdoc added Cytomel 01/03 and then lowered my Synthroid ... after 2 weeks I felt so much better, after 4-5 I was wow! Around 10 weeks I got the flu and it sort of seemed the depression came back. Am about to get another thyroid panel, but as good as my pdoc is (since 10/02) ... I need a really good endocrinologist who does thyroid/early, early peri-meno ... from the hormonal and someone who does conventional and 'natural'. Anyway ... this is * great * board! Welcome.
>
> Main thyroid board (links to everything): http://thyroid.about.com/mbody.htm
>
> Hypothyroid board (all related issues, like Cytomel, etc.) : http://thyroid.about.com/mpboards.htm
>
> Oh, also ... Dr. Bob has the link to the on home page about thyroid ... it links to an article specifically about hypothyroidism (and TSH at 6.5 is hypo ... need free T4 and other ... the board has lots of info. .. you wrote your endo wants it at 1.0 .. you will see that to be right on the money. Anyway ... http://groups.yahoo.com/group/psycho-babble-tips/links/Noa_s_thyroid_links_000963272558/Dr__Bob_s_Psychophar_000963430230/
>
> Just my ... 2sense
Posted by noa on May 30, 2003, at 19:13:23
In reply to T4/T3 doses, posted by danelor on May 30, 2003, at 13:19:22
I don't know but I bet it could be necessary for some people to have higher levels of thyroid replacement. I think also that each of us has different variations in need for T4 and T3 because of different contributing factors to the thyroid problem. Other useful resources are: "Living Well With Hypothyroidism" by Mary Shomon, and "Thyroid Power: Ten Steps to Total Health"
by Richard Shames and Karilee H. Shames.Let us know what you find out on the other links.
Posted by froggyanna on May 31, 2003, at 17:00:55
In reply to T4/T3 doses, posted by danelor on May 30, 2003, at 13:19:22
I am going to be following this discussion closely because I am also just starting to work with balancing the T4 and T3 as well as dealing with newly diagnosed ADD. I, too, would like to know what dosages people take and what the effects are. And in general, how often your docs want to test you -- how frequently do they think you need to be tested. Thanks for starting this thread!
frogganna
> When my doc switched me down to 75 mcg of Levoxyl and 10mcg of Cytomel and I get a TSH reading of 6.5, I was a little concerned. I used to take 150mcg of Levoxyl and then one of my Docs backed it down to 125mcg because my TSH went from th 4-5 range down to 3.8
> If I follow the advice of many endoDoc's and try to get to a TSH of 1, I will probably be at or over 200mcg of Levoxyl. Is this unusual?
> I'm curious as to what other people's T4 and T3 doses are.
>
> I'm hoping I can get a Doc to get me down to 1 TSH because I have felt depressed (mainly anhedonia and low energy) since my DX. This was a huge shift in my personality from which I have never fully recovered. It seems to me, if I were treated appropriately, I would return to normal. But of course it's a little hard to get treated appropriately when you have docs that dont know what cytomel is.
Posted by froggyanna on May 31, 2003, at 17:15:28
In reply to Overmedicated hypothyroidism...symptoms?, posted by MB on May 30, 2003, at 16:04:08
Hi MB,
You don't mention being given any T3 medication. This is just a suggestion, but you might want to see if you can get a doc to either add a T3 to your Levoxyl, like Cytomel, or to possibly give you a drug that combines both of them (Thyrolar?). Also, a lot of people swear by the natural alternative, Armour, which contains both AND includes a couple of lesser "T's," T1 and T2. A lot of people say this makes them feel a LOT better and is just better for your body. Not all doctors prescribe it because they feel it has potency problems. But it has a passionate and loyal following. Do take a look at the links that 2sense posted in this thread.
Also, see this thread on psychobabble: "First post.... hello everyone!"
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20030530/msgs/230182.htmlI wish you the best!
froggyanna
Posted by MB on May 31, 2003, at 19:53:59
In reply to Re: Overmedicated hypothyroidism...symptoms? » MB, posted by froggyanna on May 31, 2003, at 17:15:28
OK, watch out, I'm letting my shields down a bit, so some of my paranoia might leak through...but I have to ask this question: do you think there is a risk of catching prion disease or mad cow disease from the armour brand? I'm so paranoid, I haven't eaten a hamburger in years.
Anyway, on a lighter note, I like the name "armour." It's somewhere between "armor" and the french word for love. "My that's lovely armor your wearing." "Why yes, I call it *armour*!" lol
MB
ps. If this thyroid thing is hereditary then you might be onto something. My mom finally got into see a good endo after years on Levoxyl, and he said she was having trouble converign the T4 to T3. She's been put on a combo and feels much better.
> Hi MB,
>
> You don't mention being given any T3 medication. This is just a suggestion, but you might want to see if you can get a doc to either add a T3 to your Levoxyl, like Cytomel, or to possibly give you a drug that combines both of them (Thyrolar?). Also, a lot of people swear by the natural alternative, Armour, which contains both AND includes a couple of lesser "T's," T1 and T2. A lot of people say this makes them feel a LOT better and is just better for your body. Not all doctors prescribe it because they feel it has potency problems. But it has a passionate and loyal following. Do take a look at the links that 2sense posted in this thread.
>
> Also, see this thread on psychobabble: "First post.... hello everyone!"
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20030530/msgs/230182.html
>
> I wish you the best!
> froggyanna
Posted by froggyanna on May 31, 2003, at 20:35:28
In reply to Re: Overmedicated hypothyroidism...symptoms? » froggyanna, posted by MB on May 31, 2003, at 19:53:59
> OK, watch out, I'm letting my shields down a bit, so some of my paranoia might leak through...but I have to ask this question: do you think there is a risk of catching prion disease or mad cow disease from the armour brand? I'm so paranoid, I haven't eaten a hamburger in years.
Funny you should ask! If you have been to the discussion board that someone here provided a link to, there is a discussion about just that! Is this why you DID ask? Here, let me see if I can find it..... OK, check this out:
http://forums.about.com/ab-thyroid/messages?msg=47348.42&redirCnt=1
> Anyway, on a lighter note, I like the name "armour." It's somewhere between "armor" and the french word for love. "My that's lovely armor your wearing." "Why yes, I call it *armour*!" lolThat's amore! :-)
> ps. If this thyroid thing is hereditary then you might be onto something. My mom finally got into see a good endo after years on Levoxyl, and he said she was having trouble converign the T4 to T3. She's been put on a combo and feels much better.Well, there you go! Listen to you mother, it's good for you!
Seriously, I do hope that you figure out your particular puzzle. We all have such different responses in these matters.froggyanna
Posted by bookgurl99 on June 1, 2003, at 17:35:24
In reply to Overmedicated hypothyroidism...symptoms?, posted by MB on May 30, 2003, at 16:04:08
MB, have you ever had a test done for Hashimoto's antibodies? That would let you know if you have intrinsic hypothyroidism, separate of any medications you're on.
Also, I would not link your friend's thyroid cancer to the fact that she takes T4. Thyroid hormone is almost exactly the same as the kind that you take in your body; it doesn't _contribute_ to cancer. She probably always had a tendency towards thyroid cancer, which doctors tried to prevent by suppressing her thyroid with T4.
However, I recently got off of an SSRI, and my thyroid did become too fast suddenly. I was sweating easily, and also had a pain in my neck. My dr. tested my TSH and just had me go off for a few days, then lower my dose.
Posted by Chloe on June 2, 2003, at 12:03:49
In reply to Re: Overmedicated hypothyroidism...symptoms? » MB, posted by bookgurl99 on June 1, 2003, at 17:35:24
Hi
I was put on 10 mcgs T3 to help with my cylcing. Before starting T3 I always had normal thyroid levels. My cycling seemed to get better for a month or two. Then, I think my own thyroid completely shut off. I am very tired, chronically constipated, lose tons of hair and cycle alot. And I am having a hell of a time getting an endo appointment...I am hoping maybe in a month or two.Anyway, can that small amount of T3 shut my own thyroid down? I have heard that this is common. But 10 mcgs? Also, I did cut the dose in half and after feeling miserable for about two weeks I felt a little better. But now I feel beyond terrible, depressed, *irritiable*, menstrual periods all out of wack, and very constipated while on a high fiber diet plus metamucil. Nothing helps.
Would stopping the T3 all together help? Or would an endo supplement me with more thyroid??? Any thoughts would be so appreciated.
Chloe
Posted by Ritch on June 2, 2003, at 22:01:42
In reply to Re:Has my thyroid shut off?, posted by Chloe on June 2, 2003, at 12:03:49
> Hi
> I was put on 10 mcgs T3 to help with my cylcing. Before starting T3 I always had normal thyroid levels. My cycling seemed to get better for a month or two. Then, I think my own thyroid completely shut off. I am very tired, chronically constipated, lose tons of hair and cycle alot. And I am having a hell of a time getting an endo appointment...I am hoping maybe in a month or two.
>
> Anyway, can that small amount of T3 shut my own thyroid down? I have heard that this is common. But 10 mcgs? Also, I did cut the dose in half and after feeling miserable for about two weeks I felt a little better. But now I feel beyond terrible, depressed, *irritiable*, menstrual periods all out of wack, and very constipated while on a high fiber diet plus metamucil. Nothing helps.
>
> Would stopping the T3 all together help? Or would an endo supplement me with more thyroid??? Any thoughts would be so appreciated.
> ChloeChloe, those symptoms you mention sound like classic hypothyroidism symptoms. You need to get your TSH and free T4 checked. The lithium may be suppressing your thyroid more than you think and your TSH might be higher as a result. Will your pdoc fax a test for you?
Posted by Pfinstegg on June 2, 2003, at 22:08:14
In reply to Re:Has my thyroid shut off?, posted by Chloe on June 2, 2003, at 12:03:49
Hi.. it certainly sounds like you are completely off, thyroid-wise. Is there any way to ask your internist or regular doctor to check your TSH, T3 and T4 as soon as possible? He might be able to give you the readings, and you might be able to work with him to try to make things better. A month or two is so long to wait when you are obviously miserable and unwell. Do you take T4 along with the T3?
10 mcg is considered a substantial, pretty standard dose, but I do think you need medical help in making changes- you could possibly go down to 5mcg. while you are waiting to get this help, but you probably should not discontinue it, because you don't know what your thyroid is able to do on its own at this point.
Pfinstegg
Posted by Caleb462 on June 3, 2003, at 3:40:21
In reply to T4/T3 doses, posted by danelor on May 30, 2003, at 13:19:22
Ok, well I know very little about hypothyroidism, etc.
My mom was diagnosed with it a few years ago though, and takes synthroid every morning, 75 mcg I believe.
But I'm confused... what is synthroid? T3? T4? Something different? Thanks.
Posted by jemma on June 3, 2003, at 10:11:55
In reply to Re:Has my thyroid shut off?, posted by Chloe on June 2, 2003, at 12:03:49
Hi Chloe -I once saw a doctor who put me on a large dose of T3/T4 thyroid (Armour in the US). He believed that T3 cured everything. I quickly developed symptoms of hyperthyroidism - palpitations, sweating, insomnia. I then developed extreme crushing fatigue, hypersomnia, loss of hair, etc. - I felt more hypothyroid than I had ever felt before starting the med.
I had my levels checked, and I turned out to be very hyper-thyroid. It seems that in many people the symptoms of hyper-thyroid mimic the symptoms of hypo-thyroid, only worse! Especially the fatigue and exercise intolerance. I stopped the thyroid med and felt better within a couple of days. Apparently, many people simply can't tolerate high T3 levels.
It sounds to me like something similar has happened to you. I would cut back my dose and get my levels checked as soon as possible. Make sure a free-T3 test is part of your bloodwork. Best of luck -
Jemma
> Hi
> I was put on 10 mcgs T3 to help with my cylcing. Before starting T3 I always had normal thyroid levels. My cycling seemed to get better for a month or two. Then, I think my own thyroid completely shut off. I am very tired, chronically constipated, lose tons of hair and cycle alot. And I am having a hell of a time getting an endo appointment...I am hoping maybe in a month or two.
>
> Anyway, can that small amount of T3 shut my own thyroid down? I have heard that this is common. But 10 mcgs? Also, I did cut the dose in half and after feeling miserable for about two weeks I felt a little better. But now I feel beyond terrible, depressed, *irritiable*, menstrual periods all out of wack, and very constipated while on a high fiber diet plus metamucil. Nothing helps.
>
> Would stopping the T3 all together help? Or would an endo supplement me with more thyroid??? Any thoughts would be so appreciated.
> Chloe
Posted by Chloe on June 3, 2003, at 14:05:36
In reply to Re:Has my thyroid shut off? » Chloe, posted by Ritch on June 2, 2003, at 22:01:42
> > Hi
> > I was put on 10 mcgs T3 to help with my cylcing. Before starting T3 I always had normal thyroid levels. My cycling seemed to get better for a month or two. Then, I think my own thyroid completely shut off. I am very tired, chronically constipated, lose tons of hair and cycle alot. And I am having a hell of a time getting an endo appointment...I am hoping maybe in a month or two.
> >
> > Anyway, can that small amount of T3 shut my own thyroid down? I have heard that this is common. But 10 mcgs? Also, I did cut the dose in half and after feeling miserable for about two weeks I felt a little better. But now I feel beyond terrible, depressed, *irritiable*, menstrual periods all out of wack, and very constipated while on a high fiber diet plus metamucil. Nothing helps.
> >
> > Would stopping the T3 all together help? Or would an endo supplement me with more thyroid??? Any thoughts would be so appreciated.
> > Chloe
>
> Chloe, those symptoms you mention sound like classic hypothyroidism symptoms. You need to get your TSH and free T4 checked. The lithium may be suppressing your thyroid more than you think and your TSH might be higher as a result. Will your pdoc fax a test for you?I have my values from February...TSH: 0.58 (range is .27 to 4.2); T3 is 63 (range
80-200); and FT4 0.7 (range .9 to 1.7). These were drawn back in Feb. My Pdoc promised an appointment with a collegue endo at her hospital. I have not been able to get an appointment. So i am thinking I should go with some local. But if you are a new patient anywhere, it can take months. I am very tired and worn out from the cycling. I can't do anything to completion and I have little energy and too much irritability, distorted thinking/suicidal thoughts. It's almost like the cycles are taking over. But the good times aren't lasting. I think I need my thryoid stuff looked into. Thanks for writting. Do you think my values are really off? My pdoc doesn't seem too alarmed...
Thanks
Chloe
Posted by Chloe on June 3, 2003, at 14:15:47
In reply to Re:Has my thyroid shut off? » Chloe, posted by Pfinstegg on June 2, 2003, at 22:08:14
> Hi.. it certainly sounds like you are completely off, thyroid-wise. Is there any way to ask your internist or regular doctor to check your TSH, T3 and T4 as soon as possible? He might be able to give you the readings, and you might be able to work with him to try to make things better. A month or two is so long to wait when you are obviously miserable and unwell. Do you take T4 along with the T3?
Hi,
Yes, I guess I should get my reg. MD involved in this. I just keep hopeing the endo would come through...I have been trying since the beginning of march to get an appt. with this endo. I don't think it's gonna happen...I just take T3. I have never has anything else. Does T4 NOT shut of the thryoid like T3 does? I know T3 is what the thyroid makes, so perhaps taking the supplement turns off my thyroid. Does T4 do the same?
>
> 10 mcg is considered a substantial, pretty standard dose, but I do think you need medical help in making changes- you could possibly go down to 5mcg. while you are waiting to get this help, but you probably should not discontinue it, because you don't know what your thyroid is able to do on its own at this point.I did half my dose from 10 to 5 mcgs. I felt unbelievable horrible, tired, constipated beyond belief, irritable. Then after about two weeks, I started to feel a little more "normal", but my mood was not as stable, unfortunately. And that is where I am now. 5 mcgs, some hypo symptoms, but not as crippling. But my mood is up and down, though mostly down and getting worse.
Thanks for your help
Chloe
>
> Pfinstegg
Posted by chloe on June 3, 2003, at 14:21:34
In reply to Re:Has my thyroid shut off? » Chloe, posted by jemma on June 3, 2003, at 10:11:55
>
> Hi Chloe -
>
> I once saw a doctor who put me on a large dose of T3/T4 thyroid (Armour in the US). He believed that T3 cured everything. I quickly developed symptoms of hyperthyroidism - palpitations, sweating, insomnia. I then developed extreme crushing fatigue, hypersomnia, loss of hair, etc. - I felt more hypothyroid than I had ever felt before starting the med.
>
> I had my levels checked, and I turned out to be very hyper-thyroid. It seems that in many people the symptoms of hyper-thyroid mimic the symptoms of hypo-thyroid, only worse! Especially the fatigue and exercise intolerance. I stopped the thyroid med and felt better within a couple of days. Apparently, many people simply can't tolerate high T3 levels.
>
> It sounds to me like something similar has happened to you. I would cut back my dose and get my levels checked as soon as possible. Make sure a free-T3 test is part of your bloodwork. Best of luck -
>
> JemmaJemma,
Thanks for sharing. Clearly thyroid is not always a cure all. Do you still take any thyriod supps now?
Chloe
>
>
Posted by Ritch on June 3, 2003, at 23:17:23
In reply to Re:Has my thyroid shut off? » Ritch, posted by Chloe on June 3, 2003, at 14:05:36
> > > Hi
> > > I was put on 10 mcgs T3 to help with my cylcing. Before starting T3 I always had normal thyroid levels. My cycling seemed to get better for a month or two. Then, I think my own thyroid completely shut off. I am very tired, chronically constipated, lose tons of hair and cycle alot. And I am having a hell of a time getting an endo appointment...I am hoping maybe in a month or two.
> > >
> > > Anyway, can that small amount of T3 shut my own thyroid down? I have heard that this is common. But 10 mcgs? Also, I did cut the dose in half and after feeling miserable for about two weeks I felt a little better. But now I feel beyond terrible, depressed, *irritiable*, menstrual periods all out of wack, and very constipated while on a high fiber diet plus metamucil. Nothing helps.
> > >
> > > Would stopping the T3 all together help? Or would an endo supplement me with more thyroid??? Any thoughts would be so appreciated.
> > > Chloe
> >
> > Chloe, those symptoms you mention sound like classic hypothyroidism symptoms. You need to get your TSH and free T4 checked. The lithium may be suppressing your thyroid more than you think and your TSH might be higher as a result. Will your pdoc fax a test for you?
>
> I have my values from February...TSH: 0.58 (range is .27 to 4.2); T3 is 63 (range
> 80-200); and FT4 0.7 (range .9 to 1.7). These were drawn back in Feb. My Pdoc promised an appointment with a collegue endo at her hospital. I have not been able to get an appointment. So i am thinking I should go with some local. But if you are a new patient anywhere, it can take months. I am very tired and worn out from the cycling. I can't do anything to completion and I have little energy and too much irritability, distorted thinking/suicidal thoughts. It's almost like the cycles are taking over. But the good times aren't lasting. I think I need my thryoid stuff looked into. Thanks for writting. Do you think my values are really off? My pdoc doesn't seem too alarmed...
> Thanks
> Chloe
>
>Chloe, offhand I can't comment on the free T3/T4 levels, but the TSH is close to being hyperthyroid. But, you are having hypothyroid-like symptoms and those are OLD numbers. You need to get NEW blood draws ASAP, and possibly consider thyroxine (T4) in addition to or instead of T3, depending on the results. If you can get in to your GP and explain this and get it done-that might facilitate things-then have your GP fax the results to your pdoc. If your GP feels you need to be referred to an endo, let the GP do that.
Posted by jemma on June 4, 2003, at 12:56:03
In reply to Re:Has my thyroid shut off? » jemma, posted by chloe on June 3, 2003, at 14:21:34
Hi Chloe -
I take a very small dose of T4 - no more than 25 mg, or mcg, I'm not sure which. And not even that if I begin to perspire too easily and get tired with little exercise.
- Jemma
> >
> > Hi Chloe -
> >
> > I once saw a doctor who put me on a large dose of T3/T4 thyroid (Armour in the US). He believed that T3 cured everything. I quickly developed symptoms of hyperthyroidism - palpitations, sweating, insomnia. I then developed extreme crushing fatigue, hypersomnia, loss of hair, etc. - I felt more hypothyroid than I had ever felt before starting the med.
> >
> > I had my levels checked, and I turned out to be very hyper-thyroid. It seems that in many people the symptoms of hyper-thyroid mimic the symptoms of hypo-thyroid, only worse! Especially the fatigue and exercise intolerance. I stopped the thyroid med and felt better within a couple of days. Apparently, many people simply can't tolerate high T3 levels.
> >
> > It sounds to me like something similar has happened to you. I would cut back my dose and get my levels checked as soon as possible. Make sure a free-T3 test is part of your bloodwork. Best of luck -
> >
> > Jemma
>
> Jemma,
> Thanks for sharing. Clearly thyroid is not always a cure all. Do you still take any thyriod supps now?
> Chloe
> >
> >
>
Posted by chloe on June 4, 2003, at 17:58:30
In reply to Re:Has my thyroid shut off? » Chloe, posted by Ritch on June 3, 2003, at 23:17:23
> > > > Hi
> > > > I was put on 10 mcgs T3 to help with my cylcing. Before starting T3 I always had normal thyroid levels. My cycling seemed to get better for a month or two. Then, I think my own thyroid completely shut off. I am very tired, chronically constipated, lose tons of hair and cycle alot. And I am having a hell of a time getting an endo appointment...I am hoping maybe in a month or two.
> > > >
> > > > Anyway, can that small amount of T3 shut my own thyroid down? I have heard that this is common. But 10 mcgs? Also, I did cut the dose in half and after feeling miserable for about two weeks I felt a little better. But now I feel beyond terrible, depressed, *irritiable*, menstrual periods all out of wack, and very constipated while on a high fiber diet plus metamucil. Nothing helps.
> > > >
> > > > Would stopping the T3 all together help? Or would an endo supplement me with more thyroid??? Any thoughts would be so appreciated.
> > > > Chloe
> > >
> > > Chloe, those symptoms you mention sound like classic hypothyroidism symptoms. You need to get your TSH and free T4 checked. The lithium may be suppressing your thyroid more than you think and your TSH might be higher as a result. Will your pdoc fax a test for you?
> >
> > I have my values from February...TSH: 0.58 (range is .27 to 4.2); T3 is 63 (range
> > 80-200); and FT4 0.7 (range .9 to 1.7). These were drawn back in Feb. My Pdoc promised an appointment with a collegue endo at her hospital. I have not been able to get an appointment. So i am thinking I should go with some local. But if you are a new patient anywhere, it can take months. I am very tired and worn out from the cycling. I can't do anything to completion and I have little energy and too much irritability, distorted thinking/suicidal thoughts. It's almost like the cycles are taking over. But the good times aren't lasting. I think I need my thryoid stuff looked into. Thanks for writting. Do you think my values are really off? My pdoc doesn't seem too alarmed...
> > Thanks
> > Chloe
> >
> >
>
> Chloe, offhand I can't comment on the free T3/T4 levels, but the TSH is close to being hyperthyroid. But, you are having hypothyroid-like symptoms and those are OLD numbers. You need to get NEW blood draws ASAP, and possibly consider thyroxine (T4) in addition to or instead of T3, depending on the results. If you can get in to your GP and explain this and get it done-that might facilitate things-then have your GP fax the results to your pdoc. If your GP feels you need to be referred to an endo, let the GP do that.Thanks Mitch,
I emailed my pdoc and told her I need a new thyroid and Li level asap. No word yet. But I think she will agree it's time. I can't believe my doc is so laid about levels. Even li should be check once in a while. And thyroid should definitelly be rechecked, often if the results are so out of wack.
I kind of have hypo and hyper thyroid feelings. Sometimes I am so tired I can't move. Other times I am so wired and can't stay still or stop moving. It all seems part of the cycliing issue. I don't know what is causing what now.
Thanks
Chloe
Posted by Chloe on June 4, 2003, at 18:10:13
In reply to Re:Has my thyroid shut off? » chloe, posted by jemma on June 4, 2003, at 12:56:03
> Hi Chloe -
>
> I take a very small dose of T4 - no more than 25 mg, or mcg, I'm not sure which. And not even that if I begin to perspire too easily and get tired with little exercise.
>
> - JemmaHi Jemma,
I am having a miserable time with sweating now. If I do the slight thing I break out in a sweat and I get a mustache of sweat on my upper lip! Have you ever had that?! I also get extremely tired with exercise. I do less and less now. And I used to really love it and the way it made me feel, etc. I mowed the lawn last night and it was SO HARD! My heart would start pounding and I would get out of breath. I know I am not running anymore, but I am not a couch potato. Why do I get so exhausted with exertion? I had never really considered hyperthyroidism...
I am hopefully going to get new levels draws soon. Living this mystery of what is wrong is difficult. I want to feel better.
Thanks for you help
Chloe
>
>
> > >
> > > Hi Chloe -
> > >
> > > I once saw a doctor who put me on a large dose of T3/T4 thyroid (Armour in the US). He believed that T3 cured everything. I quickly developed symptoms of hyperthyroidism - palpitations, sweating, insomnia. I then developed extreme crushing fatigue, hypersomnia, loss of hair, etc. - I felt more hypothyroid than I had ever felt before starting the med.
> > >
> > > I had my levels checked, and I turned out to be very hyper-thyroid. It seems that in many people the symptoms of hyper-thyroid mimic the symptoms of hypo-thyroid, only worse! Especially the fatigue and exercise intolerance. I stopped the thyroid med and felt better within a couple of days. Apparently, many people simply can't tolerate high T3 levels.
> > >
> > > It sounds to me like something similar has happened to you. I would cut back my dose and get my levels checked as soon as possible. Make sure a free-T3 test is part of your bloodwork. Best of luck -
> > >
> > > Jemma
> >
> > Jemma,
> > Thanks for sharing. Clearly thyroid is not always a cure all. Do you still take any thyriod supps now?
> > Chloe
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
Posted by Ritch on June 5, 2003, at 0:13:34
In reply to Re:Has my thyroid shut off? » Ritch, posted by chloe on June 4, 2003, at 17:58:30
> Thanks Mitch,
> I emailed my pdoc and told her I need a new thyroid and Li level asap. No word yet. But I think she will agree it's time. I can't believe my doc is so laid about levels. Even li should be check once in a while. And thyroid should definitelly be rechecked, often if the results are so out of wack.
> I kind of have hypo and hyper thyroid feelings. Sometimes I am so tired I can't move. Other times I am so wired and can't stay still or stop moving. It all seems part of the cycliing issue. I don't know what is causing what now.
> Thanks
> Chloe
>
>
Chloe, when you get in contact with your pdoc, etc. next time-mention the T4 (thyroxine). You might be better off with it instead of T3.. just a thought...
Posted by jemma on June 5, 2003, at 9:51:24
In reply to Re:Has my thyroid shut off? » jemma, posted by Chloe on June 4, 2003, at 18:10:13
Hi Chloe -
Sorry you're having such a hard time. Yes indeed, profuse sweating and exhaustion were exactly the symptoms I had when I was taking too much T3. What I did was stop the T3 cold, and the symptoms went away in a couple of days. Thyroid levels in the blood take days to move up or down, so there's no harm in stopping suddenly. If you're feeling better, then you'll know the T3 was your problem.
Needless to say, you need to have your blood levels checked as soon as possible. Then, if you still need thyroid, try a small dose of T4 - which converts to T3 in your body - and move up very gradually with frequent blood levels. If it's too hard to see your endo regularly, a gp should be able to manage it.
Good luck in feeling better -
- Jemma
> > Hi Chloe -
> >
> > I take a very small dose of T4 - no more than 25 mg, or mcg, I'm not sure which. And not even that if I begin to perspire too easily and get tired with little exercise.
> >
> > - Jemma
>
> Hi Jemma,
> I am having a miserable time with sweating now. If I do the slight thing I break out in a sweat and I get a mustache of sweat on my upper lip! Have you ever had that?! I also get extremely tired with exercise. I do less and less now. And I used to really love it and the way it made me feel, etc. I mowed the lawn last night and it was SO HARD! My heart would start pounding and I would get out of breath. I know I am not running anymore, but I am not a couch potato. Why do I get so exhausted with exertion? I had never really considered hyperthyroidism...
> I am hopefully going to get new levels draws soon. Living this mystery of what is wrong is difficult. I want to feel better.
> Thanks for you help
> Chloe
> >
> >
> > > >
> > > > Hi Chloe -
> > > >
> > > > I once saw a doctor who put me on a large dose of T3/T4 thyroid (Armour in the US). He believed that T3 cured everything. I quickly developed symptoms of hyperthyroidism - palpitations, sweating, insomnia. I then developed extreme crushing fatigue, hypersomnia, loss of hair, etc. - I felt more hypothyroid than I had ever felt before starting the med.
> > > >
> > > > I had my levels checked, and I turned out to be very hyper-thyroid. It seems that in many people the symptoms of hyper-thyroid mimic the symptoms of hypo-thyroid, only worse! Especially the fatigue and exercise intolerance. I stopped the thyroid med and felt better within a couple of days. Apparently, many people simply can't tolerate high T3 levels.
> > > >
> > > > It sounds to me like something similar has happened to you. I would cut back my dose and get my levels checked as soon as possible. Make sure a free-T3 test is part of your bloodwork. Best of luck -
> > > >
> > > > Jemma
> > >
> > > Jemma,
> > > Thanks for sharing. Clearly thyroid is not always a cure all. Do you still take any thyriod supps now?
> > > Chloe
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
This is the end of the thread.
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