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Posted by Angel Girl on May 12, 2003, at 4:35:23
In reply to Re: EFFEXOR return » Angel Girl, posted by Snoozy on May 11, 2003, at 23:39:40
> Angel Girl -
>
> I keep going back and trying drugs again that seemed to help, even just the smallest bit, without side effects that were too overwhelming, so I understand why you're thinking about Effexor again. (Isn't persistence supposed to pay off :)
>
> Did your pdoc, or anyone here, have anything to say about dealing with the tremors? The brain shivers - ugh. I was on it in the early pioneer days - (way back in '95!) and of course I had them, and had a terrible time trying to explain them to my drs. I had 2 EEGs, numerous MRIs and a whole bunch of other tests - I don't know why they didn't know it was a side effect of Effexor. But all of this was before the extended release form was available.
>
> I'm curious if you have the brain shivers only when you're late for a dose? And did you have insomnia before the Effexor? Good luck making your decision, and I agree that going into this knowing what to expect makes a huge difference.
>
>
>Snoozy
I used to sleep like a baby BEFORE Effexor. Actually, to be honest, I slept very few hours and was quite satisfied with that. Maybe due to BP-II that I didn't know I had? But even prior to that, I slept a full night's sleep with no problems whatsoever. It seems that my insomnia started the day I started anti-depressants and even though I'm currently not on any ADs, I still wrestle with the problem as you can see by the time of this post. I haven't gotten to sleep yet even though I took my new sleep med. I guess it's safe to say it's not working any better than the last one.
As far as the brain shivers are concerned, they started as my dosage got higher. I can't recall exactly what dosage it was (maybe 150?). I had them all the time, all day long. It was HORRIBLE!!! My famly dr and pdoc understood and accepted them as fact but I once went to the ER because I couldn't take it any longer and they told me that there was no such thing. This was said to me by a pdoc at a psych hospital. Of course, I had a fight with her much to the dismay of my family in the ER. ;) They even continued for a couple of weeks after I was completely off the Effexor.
The tremors got worse as my dosage was increased. As I said before, at times it got almost impossible to eat and signing checks was next to impossible. The only thing that my pdoc suggested was to decrease my dosage down and introduce a different AD to augument the Effexor in hopes that that would help. Of course, it never did. I still have some tremors. It is hard to hold a book still in order to read it. Since I've been off of Effexor for several months, the tremors I'm experiencing now must be from my Depakote, I'm assuming. They are tolerable although embarrassing when people see my hands shaking.
I've been doing pretty good with just the Depakote for my BP-II but lately I've been getting more and more depressed. I've also gained a fair amount of weight so not only am I considering the Effexor XR for the depression, I'm also considering Topomax for the weight gain.
Unfortunately, my body does not do drug changes and/or dosage changes very well at all. So, I think I'll have to make a decision on which one of the issues (weight/depression) needs to be addressed first. Right now I would consider them equal, although the weight gain is also adding to the depression. :(
Angel Girl
Posted by kalyb on May 12, 2003, at 8:10:34
In reply to Re: EFFEXOR return » Angel Girl, posted by Snoozy on May 11, 2003, at 23:39:40
Can someone try to describe this to me? I've only just started taking Effexor and I'm already scared by everything I'm reading on this board. I'd just like to know what I'm getting myself into here, and whether I should be asking for something that's going to make me feel better - not worse!
Posted by Napaba on May 12, 2003, at 8:43:10
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR? YES! , posted by Elliot on May 11, 2003, at 10:45:28
I'd say stay away from Effexor. My plan is to try Wellbutrin. After much research it appears to have the least number of side effects.
Anyone have experience with a relatively new drug called lexapro? I'm weaning off depakote and now need to decide what's the best course of action. Have pretty much narrowed it down to effexor, wellbutrin, or lexapro.
Posted by Napaba on May 12, 2003, at 8:52:28
In reply to Re: Tapering down??, doses, success , posted by John2222 on May 11, 2003, at 17:03:27
I started reducing my dose last week. I went from 150 to 75. I've noticed I have brain shivers (not bad) and I'm very irritable. I've also noticed the neck and hip pain as well as the vaginites has lessoned. I'm going to stay at this dose until I go see my doctor in a couple of weeks. Hopefully he will give Wellbutrin and a script for Effexor 37.5.
so every few days i dropped drasticlly. till i reached 75. i stayed put at 75 till i was used to it ( 1 weak) and then went down to 35.5.
> > This is when i reduces v v gradually. almost little bits cut off every few days. when the last bit was there i stayed put for a week at least. then took every 2nd day , every 3rd and so on- till i was off.
>
> Has anyone else tried this every 2nd day, etc. approach to reducing?
>
> I was told after getting to 37.5 (which I've done) to then take the 37.5 xr capsule every other day for 2 weeks, then take 37.5 xr capsule every 3rd day for 2 weeks and then stop.
>
> Has anyone actually done this and DOES IT WORK? (without all the "discontinuation" effects)?
>
Posted by Napaba on May 12, 2003, at 9:00:20
In reply to Re: Effexor: Better at 225 or 300?? - jack, posted by Angel Girl on May 11, 2003, at 19:25:30
I've read that your risk of severe side effects increases with the higher doses.
> Has anybody went up to 300 mg. on EffexorRX ?
> > I'm on 225, but I'm considering to ask my doctor to go up higher.I only had one good week on 225 - I'm now "back to the circle", tired-very very tired!-,moods ups and downs etc.It would be nice to hear some assurance.
>
>
> Jack
>
> > >
> > > I bumped up from 150 to 225 in the beginning of January because of being sooo tired. Now I feel like the energizer bunny (not always such a good feeling when you are trying to sleep). But it was a significant difference for me. mel
> > >
> >
> > Did it also improve your mood? How long at 225 did it take to notice the difference?
>
>
> Jack
>
> > I have had a partial but inadequate response to 150 mg of effexor (been on it for about a month at this level following a two week taper up). Has anyone seen a more robust response at these higher levels after only getting minimal relief at 150?? Any advice appreciated.
> >
> > JACK
>
>
> I personally didn't notice ANY effect until I got to the 150mg dosage. Unfortunately it still wasn't enough for me and I gradually (37.5mg every 2 wks) increased to 367.5mg/day, which was my highest dosage. As others have said though, with each higher dosage, comes more side effects.
>
> Hopefully, you'll notice improvement with the higher dosage with minimal consequence. For me, it was WELL worth it.
>
> Good luck!!
>
> Angel Girl
>
>
Posted by Napaba on May 12, 2003, at 9:09:46
In reply to Brain shivers?, posted by kalyb on May 12, 2003, at 8:10:34
For me it's like you turn your head and you know you've stopped but you feel like your brain is still turning. Other times it's like a weird sensation in your head and you don't realize it until it starts to lessen. Kind of tingles in my face like when the shots at the dentist office begins to wear off. I don't like them, but I've read other postings where people say they enjoy them.
Can someone try to describe this to me? I've only just started taking Effexor and I'm already scared by everything I'm reading on this board. I'd just like to know what I'm getting myself into here, and whether I should be asking for something that's going to make me feel better - not worse!
Posted by artemis on May 12, 2003, at 9:16:34
In reply to Re: EFFEXOR recovery - yes! » Angel Girl, posted by Snoozy on May 11, 2003, at 20:33:26
I had been taking 60 mgs of celexa for about 8 months and I just switched to 20 mgs of lexapro a month ago. I don't know if this has anything to do with it...but I have been having the craziest most vivid dreams ever. When I wake up I can't tell if they were real and sometimes while i'm dreaming I dream in my dreams... I would like to talk to anyone who has had similar experiences to this because I feel like I can't go a single night with restful sleep that doesn't involve a crazy dream.
Posted by Anyu on May 12, 2003, at 9:33:04
In reply to Nightmares, posted by artemis on May 12, 2003, at 9:16:34
> I had been taking 60 mgs of celexa for about 8 months and I just switched to 20 mgs of lexapro a month ago. I don't know if this has anything to do with it...but I have been having the craziest most vivid dreams ever. When I wake up I can't tell if they were real and sometimes while i'm dreaming I dream in my dreams... I would like to talk to anyone who has had similar experiences to this because I feel like I can't go a single night with restful sleep that doesn't involve a crazy dream.
Good for you,if you only had this kind of dreams with pills. How about if I tell you that I had dreams like this without the pills,where does that put me - crazy maybe ?
Unfortunatly you probably will have this kind of a sleeping habbit, my dreams just incrased since I'm taking the Effexor. I felt less tired when I had to increase the dosage, and I was fresher when I got up in the morning althought my dreams stayed the same,but the las couple of weeks I'm back again being overly tired.- Time for me to go for higher dosage again ? Just a thought.Reading the side effects on the board( which I'm lucky that I do'nt have) I think this is the slightest side effect to live with. I still hope that maybe it goes away for you, or you get used to it. Good luck!
Anyu
Posted by kalyb on May 12, 2003, at 9:34:50
In reply to Re: Brain shivers? » kalyb, posted by Napaba on May 12, 2003, at 9:09:46
Thanks napaba - I know what you mean now. I had this the first day I took it.
I'm not going great with it so far. My first day on it I felt very very weird, although I did manage to have a driving lesson (warning the instructor to watch out for my driving, and if he felt I was driving badly to stop and take over). But I did well on it driving. Unfortunately after two days on it I've missed two days - not a good start but I was out with friends on saturday night and was reluctant to take it, not really wanting to have to explain to them why I might suddenly want to go home (or started acting weird). I'll start again tonight but to be truthful, I'm subconsciously far too scared.
Finding it hard to describe/relate what it's doing to me, to others around me. I share a house with friends, and while one means well, she really has NO idea. She asked the other day if it had affected my sleep - I said well, I did sleep, but can't remember if I slept well or not. (The feeling that you might not have slept at all, plus the dreams?). Her reply: well if you can't remember, then you must have slept well! I'm sure everyone reading this will understand that's not the case when you're taking drugs like this. How can I help people like her to understand what this is like? I feel if I have people around me who can't understand (or can't take on board) what I'm feeling like, it's not going to make me feel any better. I already feel isolated, sick and useless.... and constantly being pushed to do things I feel unable or unwilling to do. Anyone else got any ideas here? Particularly for those days when you feel very much at odds with "normal" people and unable to relate to them?
Posted by MaxTex on May 12, 2003, at 9:35:29
In reply to Re: Effexor: Better at 225 or 300??, posted by Anyu on May 11, 2003, at 16:44:30
Anyu -- I'm sure that quite a few here have been up to 300mg on Effexor XR. I was on 412.5mg a day (2 x 150mg + 75mg + 37mg). Although I've had a miserable time getting off the stuff, I never complained about side-effects while taking it over that time of one to two years. The only annoying effect was excessive perspiration. (I run well hotter than average normally, so it was quite bad!)
In my amateur opinion, the regular maintenance dose will vary greatly depending on the individual's personal biochemistry. (Some folks clearly get the same results -- good relief -- that I got at around 75mg, or about a fifth of my dose.) I think my doctor saw me as a bit of a clinical experiment and hadn't prescribed such a high dose before. (The same has been true of dentists and painkillers, etc.)
WHATEVER your maintenance dose, I would urge VERY GRADUAL AND SUPERVISED DISCONTINUATION when or if you're ready. My own doctor gave me almost no information about discontinuing. He *certainly* didn't prepare me for what happened. I'm hoping to get an appointment today in my current city. If I'm advised to go back on some dose of Effexor, I'll be CERTAIN to discontinue it by smaller reductions next time. (I went straight to 300, then 225, then 150, and briefly 75 before stopping completely after about 5 or 6 weeks of tapering off.)
Apart from tapering to a smaller terminal dose (75 to 37 and maybe to 18/19mg), I'd ask about a temporary serotonin buffer -- something with a longer half-life than Effexor.
Be well,
Max
Posted by MaxTex on May 12, 2003, at 9:57:49
In reply to Re: Effexor Withdrawal Highly Overrated, posted by Gretchen on May 11, 2003, at 19:50:28
Gretchen -- sounds like you're having a worse time than me with withdrawal. I'd like to give you a virtual hug. [I now live in TX, but I'm from CA, so this is expected behavior. ;-) ]
You mention that you "about committed suicide -- not knowing that it was effects from this". After a long night of utterly unprecedented suicidal nightmares, I understand. Sounds like both our neglectful doctors should be put in stocks and flogged the good old-fashioned way! This response was so unexpected for me, that I woke in a panic, crying uncontrollably, very frightened. (I'm a physically robust, healthy six-foot guy not given to gibbering in terror and despair, so that thoroughly freaked me out.)
PLEASE NOTE: I suspect you are not tapering off the least painful way (in my amateur opinion). Why? You mention that you are now taking the smallest capsule (37mg?) every 3 days but still get the symptoms after about 48 hours. Effexor gets cleared from the body quite quickly, so it's not surprising if you're suffering low-serotonin between doses. (Not sure if the noradrenaline and dopamine effects wear off as rapidly.)
SUGGESTION: You might try taking an even smaller dose every day, or at least every two days. (Coming to the same weekly total.) The Effexor XR pills are really tough, so doing that will probably mean asking your doctor for a different form that you can grind into powder -- or invest in a heavy hammer, smash the pills... and go looking for the debris. ;-)
Above all, keep yourself focused on the future. You WILL feel better, probably in no more than another 2 or 3 weeks. If it's any comfort, I seem to be doing considerably better now -- just under a week since my last dose (apart from some bowel unsteadiness which may or may not be related).
Never mind "world peace" for now --> visualize a clear head and a ready smile.
MaxTex
Posted by Snoozy on May 12, 2003, at 14:32:52
In reply to Re: EFFEXOR return, posted by Angel Girl on May 12, 2003, at 4:35:23
Hi Angel Girl -
What other meds have you tried? I take meds for depression, so I don't know what's good for BP-II. What about seeing a neurologist for the tremors? They work with meds like Depakote a lot, maybe they could help you find something to control the tremors or suggest other medications.
I think the sleep mechanism is very sensitive, so hopefully in time your sleep will get better. Up until the past year, I had noticed these sleep cycles I had for quite a while. I would go for a couple of months of sleeping very little, and then for a time I would sleep excessively. It might have balanced out to some degree, but I've been waiting way too long for the insomnia to come back!
I know how frustrating it can be to treat one condition at the expense of another, and to choose which one. The struggle continues......
>
> Snoozy
>
> I used to sleep like a baby BEFORE Effexor. Actually, to be honest, I slept very few hours and was quite satisfied with that. Maybe due to BP-II that I didn't know I had? But even prior to that, I slept a full night's sleep with no problems whatsoever. It seems that my insomnia started the day I started anti-depressants and even though I'm currently not on any ADs, I still wrestle with the problem as you can see by the time of this post. I haven't gotten to sleep yet even though I took my new sleep med. I guess it's safe to say it's not working any better than the last one.
>
> As far as the brain shivers are concerned, they started as my dosage got higher. I can't recall exactly what dosage it was (maybe 150?). I had them all the time, all day long. It was HORRIBLE!!! My famly dr and pdoc understood and accepted them as fact but I once went to the ER because I couldn't take it any longer and they told me that there was no such thing. This was said to me by a pdoc at a psych hospital. Of course, I had a fight with her much to the dismay of my family in the ER. ;) They even continued for a couple of weeks after I was completely off the Effexor.
>
> The tremors got worse as my dosage was increased. As I said before, at times it got almost impossible to eat and signing checks was next to impossible. The only thing that my pdoc suggested was to decrease my dosage down and introduce a different AD to augument the Effexor in hopes that that would help. Of course, it never did. I still have some tremors. It is hard to hold a book still in order to read it. Since I've been off of Effexor for several months, the tremors I'm experiencing now must be from my Depakote, I'm assuming. They are tolerable although embarrassing when people see my hands shaking.
>
> I've been doing pretty good with just the Depakote for my BP-II but lately I've been getting more and more depressed. I've also gained a fair amount of weight so not only am I considering the Effexor XR for the depression, I'm also considering Topomax for the weight gain.
>
> Unfortunately, my body does not do drug changes and/or dosage changes very well at all. So, I think I'll have to make a decision on which one of the issues (weight/depression) needs to be addressed first. Right now I would consider them equal, although the weight gain is also adding to the depression. :(
>
> Angel Girl
Posted by gretchen on May 12, 2003, at 14:46:26
In reply to Re: Effexor Withdrawal Highly Overrated » Gretchen, posted by MaxTex on May 12, 2003, at 9:57:49
Thanks Max
You cracked me up several times with your post - a welcome response! :)I like the idea of taking less more often. I'm calling my doctor as I type. Good idea.
Thanks for the "hug" - CA, TX, or UT, it is always welcome!
Glad you are feeling better! Ready smiles... world peace... which is more apt to happen first??? LOL
:)
Gretchen
Posted by Napaba on May 12, 2003, at 14:53:15
In reply to Re: EFFEXOR - what's next » Angel Girl, posted by Snoozy on May 12, 2003, at 14:32:52
I take 2 benedryl (Wallmart brand) before bed. It helps me sleep and I'm not drowsy in the morning. Someone suggested it on this board about a month a go. It works.
> Hi Angel Girl -
>
> What other meds have you tried? I take meds for depression, so I don't know what's good for BP-II. What about seeing a neurologist for the tremors? They work with meds like Depakote a lot, maybe they could help you find something to control the tremors or suggest other medications.
>
> I think the sleep mechanism is very sensitive, so hopefully in time your sleep will get better. Up until the past year, I had noticed these sleep cycles I had for quite a while. I would go for a couple of months of sleeping very little, and then for a time I would sleep excessively. It might have balanced out to some degree, but I've been waiting way too long for the insomnia to come back!
>
> I know how frustrating it can be to treat one condition at the expense of another, and to choose which one. The struggle continues......
>
>
> >
> > Snoozy
> >
> > I used to sleep like a baby BEFORE Effexor. Actually, to be honest, I slept very few hours and was quite satisfied with that. Maybe due to BP-II that I didn't know I had? But even prior to that, I slept a full night's sleep with no problems whatsoever. It seems that my insomnia started the day I started anti-depressants and even though I'm currently not on any ADs, I still wrestle with the problem as you can see by the time of this post. I haven't gotten to sleep yet even though I took my new sleep med. I guess it's safe to say it's not working any better than the last one.
> >
> > As far as the brain shivers are concerned, they started as my dosage got higher. I can't recall exactly what dosage it was (maybe 150?). I had them all the time, all day long. It was HORRIBLE!!! My famly dr and pdoc understood and accepted them as fact but I once went to the ER because I couldn't take it any longer and they told me that there was no such thing. This was said to me by a pdoc at a psych hospital. Of course, I had a fight with her much to the dismay of my family in the ER. ;) They even continued for a couple of weeks after I was completely off the Effexor.
> >
> > The tremors got worse as my dosage was increased. As I said before, at times it got almost impossible to eat and signing checks was next to impossible. The only thing that my pdoc suggested was to decrease my dosage down and introduce a different AD to augument the Effexor in hopes that that would help. Of course, it never did. I still have some tremors. It is hard to hold a book still in order to read it. Since I've been off of Effexor for several months, the tremors I'm experiencing now must be from my Depakote, I'm assuming. They are tolerable although embarrassing when people see my hands shaking.
> >
> > I've been doing pretty good with just the Depakote for my BP-II but lately I've been getting more and more depressed. I've also gained a fair amount of weight so not only am I considering the Effexor XR for the depression, I'm also considering Topomax for the weight gain.
> >
> > Unfortunately, my body does not do drug changes and/or dosage changes very well at all. So, I think I'll have to make a decision on which one of the issues (weight/depression) needs to be addressed first. Right now I would consider them equal, although the weight gain is also adding to the depression. :(
> >
> > Angel Girl
>
>
Posted by Snoozy on May 12, 2003, at 15:09:41
In reply to Re: EFFEXOR - what's next Angel Girl, posted by Napaba on May 12, 2003, at 14:53:15
I've been using Benadryl (generic is just fine) for help sleeping for many years (not lately though ;) I don't take it regularly, as my body gets used to it and I don't get as drowsy.
It doesn't wear off in the middle of the night like Ambien or Sonata. If you haven't tried it before, you may want to start with one tablet (25 mg) to see how it works for you. For me, it takes longer for the drowsiness to kick in (about 1 hour) after taking it, than with other sleeping aids (usually about 15-30 min.)
But please stay away from the bulldozer and other heavy machinery when you take it ;)
> I take 2 benedryl (Wallmart brand) before bed. It helps me sleep and I'm not drowsy in the morning. Someone suggested it on this board about a month a go. It works.
>
>
Posted by melley on May 12, 2003, at 16:13:11
In reply to Re: Benadryl, posted by Snoozy on May 12, 2003, at 15:09:41
I found this interesting as I am taking ambien.10mg. every night. I really needed it when I bumped up to 225 mg of effexor, for sleeping. Before I was taking it to keep the vivid dreams at bay. However, I am now in the process of switching to wellbutrin. So far just feeling a bit seasick but not enough that I can't function. I am a bit testy, too. My husband said he thought for sure he must have a business trip to somewhere that he had to go to.
> I've been using Benadryl (generic is just fine) for help sleeping for many years (not lately though ;) I don't take it regularly, as my body gets used to it and I don't get as drowsy.
>
> It doesn't wear off in the middle of the night like Ambien or Sonata. If you haven't tried it before, you may want to start with one tablet (25 mg) to see how it works for you. For me, it takes longer for the drowsiness to kick in (about 1 hour) after taking it, than with other sleeping aids (usually about 15-30 min.)
>
> But please stay away from the bulldozer and other heavy machinery when you take it ;)
>
>
> > I take 2 benedryl (Wallmart brand) before bed. It helps me sleep and I'm not drowsy in the morning. Someone suggested it on this board about a month a go. It works.
> >
> >
>
Posted by Angel Girl on May 12, 2003, at 17:45:41
In reply to Re: Effexor: Better at 225 or 300?? - jack » Angel Girl, posted by Napaba on May 12, 2003, at 9:00:20
> I've read that your risk of severe side effects increases with the higher doses.
>I totally agree with you on that one, at least that was my own personal experience. The most prominent side effects that I remember that bothered me at the higher dosages was tremors and brain shivers. My tremors were so bad that I was afraid to drive my car because my limbs would jerk. The other side effect that I got was loss of memory. My memory has suffered greatly from Effexor and even though I haven't taken it in several months, I still have this problem UNLESS it is from my Depakote?????
Angel Girl
Posted by Angel Girl on May 12, 2003, at 17:55:28
In reply to Re: Brain shivers?, posted by kalyb on May 12, 2003, at 9:34:50
> Thanks napaba - I know what you mean now. I had this the first day I took it.
>
> I'm not going great with it so far. My first day on it I felt very very weird, although I did manage to have a driving lesson (warning the instructor to watch out for my driving, and if he felt I was driving badly to stop and take over). But I did well on it driving. Unfortunately after two days on it I've missed two days - not a good start but I was out with friends on saturday night and was reluctant to take it, not really wanting to have to explain to them why I might suddenly want to go home (or started acting weird). I'll start again tonight but to be truthful, I'm subconsciously far too scared.
>
> Finding it hard to describe/relate what it's doing to me, to others around me. I share a house with friends, and while one means well, she really has NO idea. She asked the other day if it had affected my sleep - I said well, I did sleep, but can't remember if I slept well or not. (The feeling that you might not have slept at all, plus the dreams?). Her reply: well if you can't remember, then you must have slept well! I'm sure everyone reading this will understand that's not the case when you're taking drugs like this. How can I help people like her to understand what this is like? I feel if I have people around me who can't understand (or can't take on board) what I'm feeling like, it's not going to make me feel any better. I already feel isolated, sick and useless.... and constantly being pushed to do things I feel unable or unwilling to do. Anyone else got any ideas here? Particularly for those days when you feel very much at odds with "normal" people and unable to relate to them?
kalybI too have times, many in fact, where I can't recall how well I've slept and have had family tell me that if you can't remember then you must have slept when I in actuality I don't think I have. The problem with me is MEMORY or lack thereof. All these drugs have taken that away from me.
I also completely understand how you feel when you mention that you are at odds with 'normal' people. I used to feel that there was nowhere for me to fit into this world, I didn't belong anywhere. I feel the same isolation as you do. I'm a lot farther along maybe than you in my recovery and I no longer feel that way. That's not to say that I feel 'normal' because I wonder if that will EVER happen. Just know that things will get better for you. Hang in there and take care.
Angel Girl
Posted by Angel Girl on May 12, 2003, at 18:08:44
In reply to Re: EFFEXOR - what's next » Angel Girl, posted by Snoozy on May 12, 2003, at 14:32:52
> Hi Angel Girl -
>
> What other meds have you tried? I take meds for depression, so I don't know what's good for BP-II. What about seeing a neurologist for the tremors? They work with meds like Depakote a lot, maybe they could help you find something to control the tremors or suggest other medications.
>
> I think the sleep mechanism is very sensitive, so hopefully in time your sleep will get better. Up until the past year, I had noticed these sleep cycles I had for quite a while. I would go for a couple of months of sleeping very little, and then for a time I would sleep excessively. It might have balanced out to some degree, but I've been waiting way too long for the insomnia to come back!
>
> I know how frustrating it can be to treat one condition at the expense of another, and to choose which one. The struggle continues......
>
SnoozyWhat's next? That is the operative question that I haven't come up with an answer to yet. The tremors are very tolerable now so I'm not worried about them. As I said, the two problems I need to deal with is losing weight and increasing depression.
I'm considering Topomax and Effexor but I KNOW that it is not wise for me to introduce 2 more drugs into my system at the same time. My body does not do drug changes well. It usually means one step back before 2 steps up. The Topomax has side effects that kind of scare me but I'm considering it with hopes that it will help me lose weight. It would augument my Depakote, which helps with my mania. As you know, I've been on the Effexor before, so I know what to expect with that. I'm just really hesitant to go back on any AD after going without any for several months. But after spending the entire last week crying, it is becoming more and more evident that I need to do something. I certainly don't want this to get out of hand again and become suicidal as I was before. That's one hell I don't want to revisit any time soon if I can avoid it. Unfortunately my pdoc JUST started vacation for 2 weeks, so I'm trying to hang in there until he gets back.
As far as the lack of sleep issue is concerned, somehow I have to resolve this one quickly so that I can get back to work.
Angel Girl
Posted by dde on May 12, 2003, at 20:28:26
In reply to Re: Brain shivers? » kalyb, posted by Napaba on May 12, 2003, at 9:09:46
I have spoken extensively with a psychiatrist about the "brain shivers". What I am being told is that it is a negative and undesirable response to the medication. Psychotropics are supposed to make you feel NORMAL, not worse. My son had brain shivers, but his doctor "pooh poohed" the sensations. He is now dead. Talk to a PHARMACIST about the side effects. The doctors are being PAID to push these drugs. They get kick backs for every script written. A Psychiatrist clued me in on this. Most doctors are writing the scripts on a "by guess and by golly" basis. Hope this helps. dde
Posted by Snoozy on May 13, 2003, at 0:16:51
In reply to Re: Benadryl » Snoozy, posted by melley on May 12, 2003, at 16:13:11
I've been on Wellbutrin for several years, at 400 mg for probably 2 years. I think I started at 150 or 200 mg at the very beginning. Irritability is pretty common when you start taking it. Knowing that a drug is causing irritability makes it easier for me to deal with it. Like if listening to someone chew is making me hate them, I can talk myself through that the meds are making me on edge, and try to let go of that feeling. I hope that makes a bit of sense. Good luck to you!
> I found this interesting as I am taking ambien.10mg. every night. I really needed it when I bumped up to 225 mg of effexor, for sleeping. Before I was taking it to keep the vivid dreams at bay. However, I am now in the process of switching to wellbutrin. So far just feeling a bit seasick but not enough that I can't function. I am a bit testy, too. My husband said he thought for sure he must have a business trip to somewhere that he had to go to.
>
>
> > I've been using Benadryl (generic is just fine) for help sleeping for many years (not lately though ;) I don't take it regularly, as my body gets used to it and I don't get as drowsy.
> >
> > It doesn't wear off in the middle of the night like Ambien or Sonata. If you haven't tried it before, you may want to start with one tablet (25 mg) to see how it works for you. For me, it takes longer for the drowsiness to kick in (about 1 hour) after taking it, than with other sleeping aids (usually about 15-30 min.)
> >
> > But please stay away from the bulldozer and other heavy machinery when you take it ;)
Posted by leeran on May 13, 2003, at 1:25:24
In reply to Re: Wellbutrin » melley, posted by Snoozy on May 13, 2003, at 0:16:51
"Like if listening to someone chew is making me hate them"
LOL! Snoozy, this (above) made my night! It sure makes sense to me (sorry to b*tt in on your thread).
Adderall and Wellbutrin (without a full-fledged SSRI) had a similar effect on me as well (i.e. irritated beyond belief).
I call it my "scooped out melon head" feeling (weird, but the irritable sensation, for me, is like someone has taken a sharp spoon and scraped out my brains to the point that the skin is almost showing through).
What a disgusting analogy! I've tried explaining it to my husband many times and it sounds a lot better verbally.
Have you found that Wellbutrin curtails appetite and/or doesn't produce weight gain? The first psychiatrist I visited suggested 300 mg. SR in the a.m. and 300 mg. SR about 2:00 in the afternoon (I currently take 150 mg. SR first thing in the a.m. with 20 mg. of Adderall). I didn't ever try that dosage and can only imagine how tense I might have been.
Thanks again for the chuckle.
Posted by Snoozy on May 13, 2003, at 2:01:27
In reply to Re: Wellbutrin » Snoozy, posted by leeran on May 13, 2003, at 1:25:24
I take it you can identify with this feeling :)
> "Like if listening to someone chew is making me hate them"
>I haven't had any weight gain on Wellbutrin, possibly a very small loss. There may be some appetite suppression, but what I liked was the activating effect. I actually felt like moving around. Am I understanding correctly that the first pdoc wanted you to take a total of 600 mg of Wellbutrin a day? I would have been really blown away by that a few weeks ago, but there was an interesting thread about this just the other week. I'll try and copy the link here:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20030429/msgs/223750.html
Maybe it wouldn't be too bad if you could harness that tenseness to, say, power the house. But I don't think the technology is quite there for that!
I have been thinking of increasing my Wellbutrin dose (currently 400). If I do, I'll let you know how it goes. How are you doing with Adderall? Did you try any other stimulants?
> LOL! Snoozy, this (above) made my night! It sure makes sense to me (sorry to b*tt in on your thread).
>
> Adderall and Wellbutrin (without a full-fledged SSRI) had a similar effect on me as well (i.e. irritated beyond belief).
>
> I call it my "scooped out melon head" feeling (weird, but the irritable sensation, for me, is like someone has taken a sharp spoon and scraped out my brains to the point that the skin is almost showing through).
>
> What a disgusting analogy! I've tried explaining it to my husband many times and it sounds a lot better verbally.
>
> Have you found that Wellbutrin curtails appetite and/or doesn't produce weight gain? The first psychiatrist I visited suggested 300 mg. SR in the a.m. and 300 mg. SR about 2:00 in the afternoon (I currently take 150 mg. SR first thing in the a.m. with 20 mg. of Adderall). I didn't ever try that dosage and can only imagine how tense I might have been.
>
> Thanks again for the chuckle.
>
>
Posted by Belle Rose on May 13, 2003, at 2:09:27
In reply to Re: Effexor Withdrawal Highly Overrated, posted by gretchen on May 12, 2003, at 14:46:26
After three years of trying to wean myself off of Effexor, I want to an additive medicine doctor who put me in a detox center for five days using Phenobarbital for the side effects. I thought, "What I miracle, I feel great". However, the fun started when I got home and the drug from hell was completley out of my system.
Brain shocks, shaking, nausea, couldn't stand the smell of my house, my dogs, my skin, numbness, headaches. I went from the couch to the bed for a week. My physician would not prescribe me anything for the withdrawl symptoms and I hated him. He said that day by day, the symptoms would subside and they did. I don't hate him anymore. It is one month now. I don't feel totally great, as I tire easily and have headaches and muscle aches but compared to "hell week", they are tolerable. The good news is, the quality of my life is so much improved. I am more social and am enjoying life for the first time in many many years. This drug may work for some, but it wasn't the drug for me and I don't think it is humane to have to go through horrid symptoms to get off of a drug. I think one day, they will probably take it off the market. I can only pray that do.
Posted by leeran on May 13, 2003, at 3:05:12
In reply to Re: Wellbutrin » leeran, posted by Snoozy on May 13, 2003, at 2:01:27
Oh yes, I can identify with the sound of chewing, snoring, fifteen year old fingers running imaginary skateboards along the edge of the kitchen counter, etc. (and I have some hearing loss in one ear - but sounds can still get to me).
At the time I saw this psychiatrist I was taking 150 mg. of Wellbutrin in the morning and 150 in the afternoon. He felt that doubling that would get me kick started.
The sound of his voice irritated me so I didn't go back!
Actually, he was my second choice but his was the first appointment available - so I ended up going with the psychiatrist who had been recommended (on another message board) and I feel quite comfortable with this one.
Thanks for the link to the other post re: high doses of Wellbutrin. I may have kept the prescription from the first psychiatrist (I didn't have it filled because my prescription from the general practitioner had several refills remaining). Now I'm curious to take a look . . . maybe it was a different dosage (?) because if 450 sounded high, 600 sounds astronomical. But I do remember him using the words "doubling the dose."
Re: Adderall - I think I'm okay with it.
My son takes 30 mg. and I take 40 mg. (20 a.m. - 20 at noon). Our town has a noon whistle which is a good reminder for me to take the second dose. Or maybe it's the Adderall that helps me remember? Who knows . . .
After a year on Wellbutrin I was able to keep a lot of the weight off that I had gained over several years (I'm still on 150 mg.). As might be expected, I have lost weight on Adderall. Not a miracle loss, but following an era when it seemed I gained a pound or two per month it's a nice change.
Quite frankly, I'm a lot more respectful of Adderall after taking it myself. I was never thrilled with the idea of stimulants for my son, but over the years (since third grade) they have become a part of his life and have made a big difference in his self-esteem and ability to plow through school without getting behind.
After taking 40 mg. per day since February I realize that Adderall is an even more powerful medication than I realized (thus the heightened "respect"), which leaves me questioning the long-term impact stimulants have had on my son.
We have tried the non-stimulant route with him (biofeedback training) and although it helped him considerably, it has worked best in concert with Adderall.
In answer to your question - no, I haven't tried other stimulants for A.D.D. (I was just diagnosed in late January).
My son took Ritalin starting midway through third grade and eventually graduated to Adderall. I'll never forget him telling me (about a week after first taking Ritalin in third grade) that he would like to write a letter and thank "whoever invented Ritalin" because of how much better it made him feel in school. On the one hand, I felt so happy to hear that he felt better - yet so sad to know that he had felt "out of it" during the previous school years. Of course, I also felt the sorrow of knowing that I was administering a stimulant to a third grade child when, like so many other people, I had seen the many drawbacks of Ritalin on shows like 20/20, Dateline, etc.
Wow, this was a long response. Sorry about that. In the process I spilled half a bottle of water on myself and the dog has started snoring.
Thanks again for your input on Wellbutrin, Snoozy!
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