Shown: posts 1 to 25 of 27. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by cybercafe on May 8, 2003, at 22:57:23
low dose ritalin SR makes me more patient and focused .. if i take 30 mg however i start to think more ... is this the sign of a pre-psychotic state? ... i also notice my moods become de-stabilized
Posted by Ritch on May 8, 2003, at 23:36:43
In reply to stimulant psychosis, posted by cybercafe on May 8, 2003, at 22:57:23
> low dose ritalin SR makes me more patient and focused .. if i take 30 mg however i start to think more ... is this the sign of a pre-psychotic state? ... i also notice my moods become de-stabilized
You may have found your *ceiling* dosage for Ritalin in this way. 20mg of Ritalin-LA was about the max I could take every day and still feel stable--during bipolar depression times of the year. More caused trouble.
Posted by Caleb462 on May 9, 2003, at 0:14:18
In reply to stimulant psychosis, posted by cybercafe on May 8, 2003, at 22:57:23
> low dose ritalin SR makes me more patient and focused .. if i take 30 mg however i start to think more ... is this the sign of a pre-psychotic state? ... i also notice my moods become de-stabilized
No way. Okay... well, sure it's pre-psychotic in the sense that it precedes the psychotic state, but stimulant psychosis is a whole 'nother ball game. It would take a lot more than taking 30 mg of Ritalin a few times to get anywhere near psychosis.
Posted by cybercafe on May 9, 2003, at 1:50:13
In reply to Re: stimulant psychosis, posted by Caleb462 on May 9, 2003, at 0:14:18
> > low dose ritalin SR makes me more patient and focused .. if i take 30 mg however i start to think more ... is this the sign of a pre-psychotic state? ... i also notice my moods become de-stabilized
>
> No way. Okay... well, sure it's pre-psychotic in the sense that it precedes the psychotic state, but stimulant psychosis is a whole 'nother ball game. It would take a lot more than taking 30 mg of Ritalin a few times to get anywhere near psychosis.i guess i should have mentioned that i am bipolar :)
i am pretty much in a stimulation-seeking state at 20 mg of ritalin SR, on 30 mg i sit still and just think about things, feel more afraid (but less anxious)
Posted by cybercafe on May 9, 2003, at 20:22:30
In reply to Re: stimulant psychosis, posted by Ritch on May 8, 2003, at 23:36:43
Thanks for replying mitch> You may have found your *ceiling* dosage for Ritalin in this way. 20mg of Ritalin-LA was about the max I could take every day and still feel stable--during bipolar depression times of the year. More caused trouble.
Interesting. I still can't concentrate, so we're raising the zyprexa to 5mg to accommodate a higher dose of methylphenidate. Though I can't help but wonder if I might not be better off on Seroquel, since it has a much lower affinity for D4, and D4 is the receptor we want to stimulate for ADD.
Posted by Ritch on May 9, 2003, at 21:22:51
In reply to Re: stimulant psychosis, posted by cybercafe on May 9, 2003, at 20:22:30
>
> Thanks for replying mitch
>
> > You may have found your *ceiling* dosage for Ritalin in this way. 20mg of Ritalin-LA was about the max I could take every day and still feel stable--during bipolar depression times of the year. More caused trouble.
>
> Interesting. I still can't concentrate, so we're raising the zyprexa to 5mg to accommodate a higher dose of methylphenidate. Though I can't help but wonder if I might not be better off on Seroquel, since it has a much lower affinity for D4, and D4 is the receptor we want to stimulate for ADD.
>
I've been on the stimulant/antipsychotic thing before and it didn't work very well. I was taking Risperdal+Adderall and got EPS from the Risperdal. Then I switched to Seroquel+Adderall, and got dystonia from that (throat muscles tight as banjo strings). I tried Effexor+Adderall and that worked much better than the former two combos. Ritalin-wise that stuff just tended to make me tense and quiet. I didn't like its short-term peakiness at all. It seems your pdoc is set on Zyprexa for some reason and is trying everything to make the Zyprexa work.
Posted by Geezer on May 9, 2003, at 21:59:17
In reply to stimulant psychosis, posted by cybercafe on May 8, 2003, at 22:57:23
> low dose ritalin SR makes me more patient and focused .. if i take 30 mg however i start to think more ... is this the sign of a pre-psychotic state? ... i also notice my moods become de-stabilized
In 1985 I spent 4 weeks in a psyc. ward detoxing from 200mg. of Dex. per day over a 4 month period. Came off on small doses of Mellirel(sp). Honest, if you get pstim psychosis you will sure as h*** know it. I don't mean to offend - today if I take 200, 400 or 500mg. of Provigil all at once or in devided doses the effect only lasts 4 hours then I get a rebound dysphoric state that can only be relieved with benzos & AEDs (Klonopin and Lamictal). I think I am Bipolar II as well but can't get a pdoc to give me a DX. Just my guess but you may be getting some mood changes but I doubt you are close to psychosis - that comes with horrable technicolor nightmares, etc. Slow and easy....seems you are intuitive and know yourself well. Best of luck.
Geezer
Posted by cybercafe on May 10, 2003, at 18:22:51
In reply to Re: stimulant psychosis » cybercafe, posted by Ritch on May 9, 2003, at 21:22:51
>
> I've been on the stimulant/antipsychotic thing before and it didn't work very well. I was taking Risperdal+Adderall and got EPS from the Risperdal. Then I switched to Seroquel+Adderall, and got dystonia from that (throat muscles tight as banjo strings). I tried Effexor+Adderall and that worked much better than the former two combos. Ritalin-wise that stuff just tended to make me tense and quiet. I didn't like its short-term peakiness at all. It seems your pdoc is set on Zyprexa for some reason and is trying everything to make the Zyprexa work.well my doc let me choose between zyprexa, risperdal and seroquel -- i chose zyprexa ...
he thinks i really need dopamine antagonism, and i think he's right -- i've had much more mood stability on a low dose of an atypical than i ever had on a high dose of anticonvulsant (valporate) - with horrible side effectsnext time i see my doc i'll be asking for a switch of AD (don't like the tremors) and a switch of AP (if my ADD doesn't go away fast)]
btw... outside of the intolerable side effects of AP, were you able to achieve a decent degree of mood stability and concentration???
Posted by cybercafe on May 10, 2003, at 18:27:16
In reply to Re: stimulant psychosis » cybercafe, posted by Geezer on May 9, 2003, at 21:59:17
> > low dose ritalin SR makes me more patient and focused .. if i take 30 mg however i start to think more ... is this the sign of a pre-psychotic state? ... i also notice my moods become de-stabilized
>
> In 1985 I spent 4 weeks in a psyc. ward detoxing from 200mg. of Dex. per day over a 4 month period. Came off on small doses of Mellirel(sp). Honest, if you get pstim psychosis you will sure as h*** know it. I don't mean to offend - today if I take 200, 400 or 500mg. of Provigil all at once or in devided doses the effect only lasts 4 hours then I get a rebound dysphoric state that can only be relieved with benzos & AEDs (Klonopin and Lamictal). I think I am Bipolar II as well but can't get a pdoc to give me a DX. Just my guess but you may be getting some mood changes but I doubt you are close to psychosis - that comes with horrable technicolor nightmares, etc. Slow and easy....seems you are intuitive and know yourself well. Best of luck.
>
> Geezerwell i noticed that i started thinking more.. and was a bit more fearful.... and after a while it might well extend to a psychotic state such as thinking people might find out that you did X and then get together and laugh at you ... or judge/persecute you ...seems quite paranoid to me
yeah... don't you think a psychotic state can come on gradually ??
Posted by Geezer on May 10, 2003, at 19:30:36
In reply to Re: stimulant psychosis, posted by cybercafe on May 10, 2003, at 18:27:16
> > > low dose ritalin SR makes me more patient and focused .. if i take 30 mg however i start to think more ... is this the sign of a pre-psychotic state? ... i also notice my moods become de-stabilized
> >
> > In 1985 I spent 4 weeks in a psyc. ward detoxing from 200mg. of Dex. per day over a 4 month period. Came off on small doses of Mellirel(sp). Honest, if you get pstim psychosis you will sure as h*** know it. I don't mean to offend - today if I take 200, 400 or 500mg. of Provigil all at once or in devided doses the effect only lasts 4 hours then I get a rebound dysphoric state that can only be relieved with benzos & AEDs (Klonopin and Lamictal). I think I am Bipolar II as well but can't get a pdoc to give me a DX. Just my guess but you may be getting some mood changes but I doubt you are close to psychosis - that comes with horrable technicolor nightmares, etc. Slow and easy....seems you are intuitive and know yourself well. Best of luck.
> >
> > Geezer
>
> well i noticed that i started thinking more.. and was a bit more fearful.... and after a while it might well extend to a psychotic state such as thinking people might find out that you did X and then get together and laugh at you ... or judge/persecute you ...seems quite paranoid to me
>
> yeah... don't you think a psychotic state can come on gradually ??
I think if this is a real concern to you it would be best to talk it over with your pdoc. I can only offer my own experience due to prolonged Dex. abuse (the psychosis did not continue after detox.). As for gradual onset I am not sure. Please talk to your pdoc and let me know how you are doing!Geezer
Posted by Ritch on May 10, 2003, at 22:46:16
In reply to Re: stimulant psychosis, posted by cybercafe on May 10, 2003, at 18:22:51
> >
> > I've been on the stimulant/antipsychotic thing before and it didn't work very well. I was taking Risperdal+Adderall and got EPS from the Risperdal. Then I switched to Seroquel+Adderall, and got dystonia from that (throat muscles tight as banjo strings). I tried Effexor+Adderall and that worked much better than the former two combos. Ritalin-wise that stuff just tended to make me tense and quiet. I didn't like its short-term peakiness at all. It seems your pdoc is set on Zyprexa for some reason and is trying everything to make the Zyprexa work.
>
> well my doc let me choose between zyprexa, risperdal and seroquel -- i chose zyprexa ...
> he thinks i really need dopamine antagonism, and i think he's right -- i've had much more mood stability on a low dose of an atypical than i ever had on a high dose of anticonvulsant (valporate) - with horrible side effects
>
> next time i see my doc i'll be asking for a switch of AD (don't like the tremors) and a switch of AP (if my ADD doesn't go away fast)]
>
> btw... outside of the intolerable side effects of AP, were you able to achieve a decent degree of mood stability and concentration???Cyber, It just seems like you are being treated with a stimulant to offset the negative effects of an AP. Ultimately, stimulants weren't the solution for me as a chronic day-to-day med. The dramatic positive effects of stims were evident only for acute bipolar depressive episodes only. I have taken stims during times of the year where I am normally experiencing manic symptoms and they didn't aggravate them near as much as any antidepressant, so that vindicates them to some degree I guess, but they generally make me too anxious. If you are finding Zyprexa to work better than any other med in your cocktail, then I would definitely stick with it if possible. I just wonder if you can find a stim alternative to go with the Zyprexa. Maybe Straterra or Provigil?
Posted by cybercafe on May 11, 2003, at 3:48:06
In reply to Re: stimulant psychosis » cybercafe, posted by Geezer on May 10, 2003, at 19:30:36
> I think if this is a real concern to you it would be best to talk it over with your pdoc. I can only offer my own experience due to prolonged Dex. abuse (the psychosis did not continue after detox.). As for gradual onset I am not sure. Please talk to your pdoc and let me know how you are doing!i'm great when i'm out doing things, but really depressed when i'm alone
i'm hoping zyprexa + ritalin can beat ADD, otherwise i'll have to try seroquel, then aripiprazole, then pharmacy college :)
Posted by cybercafe on May 11, 2003, at 3:54:31
In reply to Re: stimulant psychosis » cybercafe, posted by Ritch on May 10, 2003, at 22:46:16
> > well my doc let me choose between zyprexa, risperdal and seroquel -- i chose zyprexa ...
> > he thinks i really need dopamine antagonism, and i think he's right -- i've had much more mood stability on a low dose of an atypical than i ever had on a high dose of anticonvulsant (valporate) - with horrible side effects
> >
> > next time i see my doc i'll be asking for a switch of AD (don't like the tremors) and a switch of AP (if my ADD doesn't go away fast)]
> >
> > btw... outside of the intolerable side effects of AP, were you able to achieve a decent degree of mood stability and concentration???
>
> Cyber, It just seems like you are being treated with a stimulant to offset the negative effects of an AP. Ultimately, stimulants weren'tNope - I am taking stimulants so I will be able to concentrate, and my doc says stims would make me psychotic without an AP
>the solution for me as a chronic day-to-day
> med. The dramatic positive effects of stims
> were evident only for acute bipolar depressive
> episodes only. I have taken stims during timesoh so you were taking stims not for concentration but for antidepressant effects?
but how was your concentration at the time (you do suffer from ADD right?)?
>in your cocktail, then I would definitely stick
>with it if possible. I just wonder if you can
>find a stim alternative to go with the Zyprexa.
>Maybe Straterra or Provigil?hmmm... i have no reason to believe as yet that straterra or provigil would work better for concentration than ritalin
i think too much norepenephrine is what causes us bipolars to cycle and provigil i thought was useful for wakefulness but not concentration? ....
i don't think thye would hit D4 like ritalin would hit D4
Posted by Ritch on May 11, 2003, at 10:59:00
In reply to Re: stimulant psychosis, posted by cybercafe on May 11, 2003, at 3:54:31
> > Cyber, It just seems like you are being treated with a stimulant to offset the negative effects of an AP. Ultimately, stimulants weren't
>
> Nope - I am taking stimulants so I will be able to concentrate, and my doc says stims would make me psychotic without an AP
Oops! Ok, I understand you now.
> > > btw... outside of the intolerable side effects of AP, were you able to achieve a decent degree of mood stability and concentration???Only on the Risperdal/Neurontin/Adderall combo. Seroquel was just too sedative, period. The Risperdal I could take the night before at bedtime (1/2mg), and I would just be a *little* foggy-headed when I woke up, but would feel fairly clear after my Adderall dosage the next day.
> oh so you were taking stims not for concentration but for antidepressant effects?
>
> but how was your concentration at the time (you do suffer from ADD right?)?
>I'm really beginning to believe that my "ADD" symptoms really are the primary symptoms of bipolar depression. Perhaps a "limbic ADD" of sorts. IOW, the stims are creating a dramatic positive improvement in my concentration probs., because they are creating a dramatic improvement in my bipolar depressive symptoms-of which poor concentration and mental slowing are the primary symptoms. I'm not taking any stims or ADD meds, now and I'm not having much trouble at all-I'm also not in the seasonal depressive phase of my cycling either.
> >Maybe Straterra or Provigil?
> hmmm... i have no reason to believe as yet that straterra or provigil would work better for concentration than ritalin
> i think too much norepenephrine is what causes us bipolars to cycle and provigil i thought was useful for wakefulness but not concentration? ....
> i don't think thye would hit D4 like ritalin would hit D4
I think it is interesting they are studying Provigil for use in bipolar depression. From, what I understand it has little effect on NE, but DA instead. For me wakefulness=concentration.
Posted by cybercafe on May 11, 2003, at 22:53:28
In reply to Re: stimulant psychosis » cybercafe, posted by Ritch on May 11, 2003, at 10:59:00
> Only on the Risperdal/Neurontin/Adderall combo. Seroquel was just too sedative, period. The Risperdal I could take the night before at bedtime (1/2mg), and I would just be a *little* foggy-headed when I woke up, but would feel fairly clear after my Adderall dosage the next day.
Hmmmm... so you had movement disorders on both risperdal and seroquel, that's too bad. Did you give them time to remitt? I found it took about 3 weeks for dystonia to disappear on zyprexa.
Was risperdal much worse than seroquel?
> I'm really beginning to believe that my "ADD" symptoms really are the primary symptoms of bipolar depression. Perhaps a "limbic ADD" ofYes and no. bipolar depression = atypical depression = mood reactivity. But in my case I get dramatic mood swings depending on how stimulated I am.
However! Even when i am hypomanic I still have some problems with ADD, for sure.
>sorts. IOW, the stims are creating a dramatic positive improvement in my concentration probs., because they are creating a dramatic improvement in my bipolar depressive symptoms-of which poor concentration and mental slowing are the primary symptoms. I'm not taking any stims or ADD meds, now and I'm not having much trouble at all-I'm also not in the seasonal depressive phase of my cycling either.
So now you don't have problems with neither depression nor ADD? Your ADD disappeared on it's own? I am jealous dude :)
> I think it is interesting they are studying Provigil for use in bipolar depression. From, what I understand it has little effect on NE, but DA instead. For me wakefulness=concentration.Hmmm... maybe your problem is a sleep disorder?
For me wakefulness=the quest for stimulation
Posted by Ritch on May 12, 2003, at 9:54:22
In reply to Re: stimulant psychosis, posted by cybercafe on May 11, 2003, at 22:53:28
> > Only on the Risperdal/Neurontin/Adderall combo. Seroquel was just too sedative, period. The Risperdal I could take the night before at bedtime (1/2mg), and I would just be a *little* foggy-headed when I woke up, but would feel fairly clear after my Adderall dosage the next day.
>
> Hmmmm... so you had movement disorders on both risperdal and seroquel, that's too bad. Did you give them time to remitt? I found it took about 3 weeks for dystonia to disappear on zyprexa.
> Was risperdal much worse than seroquel?When I start getting EPS from an AP, it *always* gets worse the longer I stay on it. The only AP I didn't get EPS from was thioridazine (a conventional). Of course, I haven't tried the newest atypicals, but really don't want to however (don't think I *need* to). Risperdal was definitely MUCH worse than Seroquel. I was the one who asked about it first and was told by my pdoc ("they SAY it doesn't cause EPS, but it DOES"), and let me give it a low-dose trial, and sure enough it DID. No akathisia though, this was different. It was disturbed gait. I could walk and feel my muscles "lock up" at certain points while I was walking-like somebody flipping a switch off and on. I also got the stiff-tongue thing (dystonia) on it like I got from Stelazine.
>
>
> > I'm really beginning to believe that my "ADD" symptoms really are the primary symptoms of bipolar depression. Perhaps a "limbic ADD" of
>
> Yes and no. bipolar depression = atypical depression = mood reactivity. But in my case I get dramatic mood swings depending on how stimulated I am.
>
> However! Even when i am hypomanic I still have some problems with ADD, for sure.I notice this when I am *transitioning* from wintertime depressive bipolar (w/ atypical features), to springtime manic symptoms. It is like my head is still all dulled up (and I am sleeping too much), but I start having dozens of projects to start and I can't get started on any given one and can't follow through and stay on one task-what a mess! Kind of like a mild mixed picture of sorts.
>
> >sorts. IOW, the stims are creating a dramatic positive improvement in my concentration probs., because they are creating a dramatic improvement in my bipolar depressive symptoms-of which poor concentration and mental slowing are the primary symptoms. I'm not taking any stims or ADD meds, now and I'm not having much trouble at all-I'm also not in the seasonal depressive phase of my cycling either.
>
> So now you don't have problems with neither depression nor ADD? Your ADD disappeared on it's own? I am jealous dude :)
Not much to envy really! I still have another layer of 20 day rapid cycling going on and that means several days of depressive mood despite the seasonal component being gone (temporarily). They are just much milder and manageable. They highs can get a bit wirey however.>
> > I think it is interesting they are studying Provigil for use in bipolar depression. From, what I understand it has little effect on NE, but DA instead. For me wakefulness=concentration.
>
> Hmmm... maybe your problem is a sleep disorder?
> For me wakefulness=the quest for stimulation
>
I think so too. My sleep quality/architecture/quantity mirrors my mood states almost to a tee. If I try a med that causes insomnia and sleep deprivation-watch for highs to get exaggerated down the road. If I take something that is too sedative and I get to sleeping in too much-I start to get into a depressive snowball. I doing enforced darkness right now and it is helping me to sleep better and my highs are much less jagged than they normally are at this time of year.
Posted by cybercafe on May 13, 2003, at 0:04:35
In reply to Re: stimulant psychosis » cybercafe, posted by Ritch on May 12, 2003, at 9:54:22
> When I start getting EPS from an AP, it *always* gets worse the longer I stay on it. The only AP I didn't get EPS from was thioridazine (a conventional). Of course, I haven't tried the newest atypicals, but really don't want to however (don't think I *need* to). Risperdal was definitely MUCH worse than Seroquel. I was the one who asked about it first and was told by my pdoc ("they SAY it doesn't cause EPS, but it DOES"), and let me give it a low-dose trial, and sure enough it DID. No akathisia though, this was different. It was disturbed gait. I could walk and feel my muscles "lock up" at certain points while I was walking-like somebody flipping a switch off and on. I also got the stiff-tongue thing (dystonia) on it like I got from Stelazine.
damn... okay i guess i will count myself lucky with zyprexa. i just hope it doesn't counter-act the ritalin too much
funny thing is ... i'm getting tremors from effexor!
sleeping too much), but I start having dozens of projects to start and I can't get started on any given one and can't follow through and stay on one task-what a mess! Kind of like a mild mixed picture of sorts.
Hmmm... I still can't believe you can get away with taking adderall. Maybe i'm more type 1-ish
> I think so too. My sleep quality/architecture/quantity mirrors my mood states almost to a tee. If I try a med that causes insomnia and sleep deprivation-watch for highs to get exaggerated down the road. If I take something that is too sedative and I get to sleeping in too much-I start to get into a depressive snowball. I doing enforced darkness right now and it is helping me to sleep better and my highs are much less jagged than they normally are at this time of year.hmmm..... i can't think of anything to do other than sleep. it seems like everything costs money. and my friends all work during the day.
oh glorious sleep! what would i do without you?
Posted by Ritch on May 13, 2003, at 8:01:48
In reply to Re: stimulant psychosis, posted by cybercafe on May 13, 2003, at 0:04:35
> damn... okay i guess i will count myself lucky with zyprexa. i just hope it doesn't counter-act the ritalin too much
>
> funny thing is ... i'm getting tremors from effexor!
Woah-I didn't realize you were taking Effexor along with Ritalin and Zyprexa. I take just a few spheroid sprinkles of Effexor XR (and not every day) for anxiety and usually on my "off" dysthymic days of my cycle. I find it a very tiring med compared to the other serotonergics. Hmmm. What dosage are you taking of (Effexor)? The highest I can EVER go on Effexor is about 25mg/day-which thus far is the only serotonergic to really *work* for my bipolar seasonal depression depths. Even at 25mg/day I'm mildly hypertensive.
>
> sleeping too much), but I start having dozens of projects to start and I can't get started on any given one and can't follow through and stay on one task-what a mess! Kind of like a mild mixed picture of sorts.
>
> Hmmm... I still can't believe you can get away with taking adderall. Maybe i'm more type 1-ish
It might have a lot to do with what stimulant and what other meds are being taken with it. Actually, I found dexedrine the most tolerable of any stimulant (no tics either). I've never gotten euphoric on stimulants. I don't necessarily think that it is because I have ADHD.
> > I think so too. My sleep quality/architecture/quantity mirrors my mood states almost to a tee. If I try a med that causes insomnia and sleep deprivation-watch for highs to get exaggerated down the road. If I take something that is too sedative and I get to sleeping in too much-I start to get into a depressive snowball. I doing enforced darkness right now and it is helping me to sleep better and my highs are much less jagged than they normally are at this time of year.
>
> hmmm..... i can't think of anything to do other than sleep. it seems like everything costs money. and my friends all work during the day.
> oh glorious sleep! what would i do without you?
Well, IMO, that sounds like the core of your problem-excessive sleepiness and tiredness. I've been on meds that produce listlessness and I have the same problem-attempting to start several things (and there are several things because you are procrastinating), and not having the ENERGY to follow through.
Posted by cybercafe on May 13, 2003, at 16:22:08
In reply to Re: Effexor tremors? » cybercafe, posted by Ritch on May 13, 2003, at 8:01:48
> Woah-I didn't realize you were taking Effexor along with Ritalin and Zyprexa. I take just a few spheroid sprinkles of Effexor XR (and not every day) for anxiety and usually on my "off" dysthymic days of my cycle. I find it a very tiring med compared to the other serotonergics. Hmmm. What dosage are you taking of (Effexor)? The highest I can EVER go on Effexor is about 25mg/day-which thus far is the only serotonergic to really *work* for my bipolar seasonal depression depths. Even at 25mg/day I'm mildly hypertensive.
Ummm... I once went up to 300 mg on Effexor. Then went off and went on Parnate. Now I'm back on Effexor + Ritalin. I'm taking 150 mg and getting tremors -- though I think last time I took it (with depakote or nothing rather than zyprexa) i didn't get tremors until i went up to 225 mg.
What are the symptoms of your mild hypertension?
> > Hmmm... I still can't believe you can get away with taking adderall. Maybe i'm more type 1-ish
>
>
> It might have a lot to do with what stimulant and what other meds are being taken with it. Actually, I found dexedrine the most tolerable of any stimulant (no tics either). I've never gotten euphoric on stimulants. I don't necessarily think that it is because I have ADHD.I found myself having mild cognitive side effects on a very low dose of ritalin (30 mg SR, which is equal to about 10 mg of regular ritalin). So i'd imagine on something more powerful like dex or adderell i'd be quite game over.
although i had no problem with 40 mg SR when i took it without an AD
> Well, IMO, that sounds like the core of your problem-excessive sleepiness and tiredness. I've been on meds that produce listlessness and I have the same problem-attempting to start several things (and there are several things because you are procrastinating), and not having the ENERGY to follow through.
yeah Parnate was really nice.
Can i expect ritalin to ever help with sleepiness and tiredness? that's what i'm hoping for
Posted by Ritch on May 13, 2003, at 23:12:52
In reply to Re: Effexor tremors?, posted by cybercafe on May 13, 2003, at 16:22:08
> > Woah-I didn't realize you were taking Effexor along with Ritalin and Zyprexa. I take just a few spheroid sprinkles of Effexor XR (and not every day) for anxiety and usually on my "off" dysthymic days of my cycle. I find it a very tiring med compared to the other serotonergics. Hmmm. What dosage are you taking of (Effexor)? The highest I can EVER go on Effexor is about 25mg/day-which thus far is the only serotonergic to really *work* for my bipolar seasonal depression depths. Even at 25mg/day I'm mildly hypertensive.
>
> Ummm... I once went up to 300 mg on Effexor. Then went off and went on Parnate. Now I'm back on Effexor + Ritalin. I'm taking 150 mg and getting tremors -- though I think last time I took it (with depakote or nothing rather than zyprexa) i didn't get tremors until i went up to 225 mg.
>
> What are the symptoms of your mild hypertension?
I didn't have any symptoms. I would just check my blood pressure every so often (maybe once a month or so), at a BP machine in a store before I started taking any Effexor. Then I started it and just happened to check it and it was up quite a bit (on 25mg/day from what I remember at the time). My "typical" BP is centered around 127/73 or so. When I checked it it was 148/90. It was like holy sh*t what's going on here! I've stopped and started it and mixed it with different meds since and Effexor is the one that boosts it more than anything I've ever taken-even dexedrine. Effexor 12.5mg mixed with 75mg of Wellbutrin in the AM yielded 144/93 in my pdoc's office (my pdoc thought it was the WB at first). I was off Effexor entirely and up to 150mg of WB/day and it wasn't elevated very much at all. I bought my own BP machine and charted it with stims and all sorts of mixes. Definitely saw an inverse relationship with heartrate and BP that was interesting-also waking BP/HR vs. BP/HR after meals midday, etc.> > Well, IMO, that sounds like the core of your problem-excessive sleepiness and tiredness. I've been on meds that produce listlessness and I have the same problem-attempting to start several things (and there are several things because you are procrastinating), and not having the ENERGY to follow through.
>
> yeah Parnate was really nice.
> Can i expect ritalin to ever help with sleepiness and tiredness? that's what i'm hoping for
>
I hope it winds up helping, but IMHO, I think the Zyprexa and Ritalin together is like driving a car slowly hitting the brakes and the gas at the same time. The closest thing I have came to what you are taking is 500mg of Depakote + 20mg of Ritalin + a few MG of Effexor every day. The one thing I can say about stims that I like is that I sleep much better and more soundly when I am taking them, but while they are kicked in during the day I am too tense/aloof/quiet and I didn't like it.
Posted by cybercafe on May 15, 2003, at 0:44:27
In reply to Re: Effexor tremors? » cybercafe, posted by Ritch on May 13, 2003, at 23:12:52
> > What are the symptoms of your mild hypertension?
>
>
> I didn't have any symptoms. I would just check my blood pressure every so often (maybe once a month or so), at a BP machine in a store before I started taking any Effexor. Then I started it and just happened to check it and it was up quite a bit (on 25mg/day from what I remember at the time). My "typical" BP is centered around 127/73 or so. When I checked it it was 148/90. It was like holy sh*t what's going on here! I've stopped and started it and mixed it with different meds since and Effexor is the one that boosts it more than anything I've ever taken-even dexedrine. Effexor 12.5mg mixed with 75mg of Wellbutrin in the AM yielded 144/93 in my pdoc'syeah my BP comes out as dystolic 90 on my wrist sphingtermeter .... i should really get it checked out .... hey it comes out to 106 now... neato
> I hope it winds up helping, but IMHO, I think the Zyprexa and Ritalin together is like driving a car slowly hitting the brakes and the gas at the same time. The closest thing I have came to
nope... it does help! plus there is no choice, since methylphenidate alone would just make me psychotic
... ummm though i expect an AP without D4 antagonism (seroquel or risperdal) would probably do much better.. (or geodon) .. but i worry about EPS even on seroquel, definately the others....ideally it would be nice to try abilify, i wish there were more people with bp + adhd so there was more known about ... how to treat these symptoms
i have heard good stories of lithium + amphetamine ...
>what you are taking is 500mg of Depakote + 20mg of Ritalin + a few MG of Effexor every day. The one thing I can say about stims that I like is that I sleep much better and more soundly when I am taking them, but while they are kicked in during the day I am too tense/aloof/quiet and I didn't like it.hmmm... maybe your ADD isn't as bad as mine...??
i mean ... aloof and quiet in my case would be a fair trade off to get back to making use of my diploma.... i used to earn $150,000 out of university, now i feel guilty spending $2 on a hamburger when i could be eating at home (no income :( )
Posted by Ritch on May 15, 2003, at 9:52:29
In reply to Re: Effexor tremors?, posted by cybercafe on May 15, 2003, at 0:44:27
> yeah my BP comes out as dystolic 90 on my wrist sphingtermeter .... i should really get it checked out .... hey it comes out to 106 now... neato
My pdoc told me to figure out what med was causing it and to reduce it to get the number below 90. I dropped the Effexor down a lot, and my BP followed.
> > I hope it winds up helping, but IMHO, I think the Zyprexa and Ritalin together is like driving a car slowly hitting the brakes and the gas at the same time. The closest thing I have came to
>
> nope... it does help! plus there is no choice, since methylphenidate alone would just make me psychotic
> ... ummm though i expect an AP without D4 antagonism (seroquel or risperdal) would probably do much better.. (or geodon) .. but i worry about EPS even on seroquel, definately the others....
>
> ideally it would be nice to try abilify, i wish there were more people with bp + adhd so there was more known about ... how to treat these symptoms
>
> i have heard good stories of lithium + amphetamine ...
The latest thing I heard was Depakote or Lithium + Wellbutrin. The trouble is that WB caused me to hyperfocus really bad and made things worse (at higher doses anyhow). The best response I've had strictly for attentiveness was desipramine or Adderall thus far. I think Straterra would work, but I think it is overpriced and overhyped.>
>
> >what you are taking is 500mg of Depakote + 20mg of Ritalin + a few MG of Effexor every day. The one thing I can say about stims that I like is that I sleep much better and more soundly when I am taking them, but while they are kicked in during the day I am too tense/aloof/quiet and I didn't like it.
>
> hmmm... maybe your ADD isn't as bad as mine...??
> i mean ... aloof and quiet in my case would be a fair trade off to get back to making use of my diploma.... i used to earn $150,000 out of university, now i feel guilty spending $2 on a hamburger when i could be eating at home (no income :( )
>I'm still convinced I don't have ADHD. The trouble is making it through recurrent seasonal bipolar depressions and have the ADD-"like" symptoms under control. My ADD isn't as bad as yours because I don't think I have ADD :) Whenever I'm in the depths of a depressive episode I'm sure it may be as bad.....
Posted by cybercafe on May 16, 2003, at 17:15:53
In reply to Re: Effexor tremors? » cybercafe, posted by Ritch on May 15, 2003, at 9:52:29
> My pdoc told me to figure out what med was causing it and to reduce it to get the number below 90. I dropped the Effexor down a lot, and my BP followed.
it's a good thing you mentioned this... mine is just as high... i'll have a talk with my doc about it soon.. i almost never caught it
> The latest thing I heard was Depakote or Lithium + Wellbutrin. The trouble is that WB caused me to hyperfocus really bad and made things worse (at higher doses anyhow). The best response I've had strictly for attentiveness was desipramine or Adderall thus far. I think Straterra would work, but I think it is overpriced and overhyped.
hmm.... really wellburtin is that powerful?
> I'm still convinced I don't have ADHD. The trouble is making it through recurrent seasonal bipolar depressions and have the ADD-"like" symptoms under control. My ADD isn't as bad as yours because I don't think I have ADD :) Whenever I'm in the depths of a depressive episode I'm sure it may be as bad.....
hmmmm... i wonder how many cases are as complicated as ours
Posted by Ritch on May 16, 2003, at 22:13:42
In reply to Re: Effexor tremors?, posted by cybercafe on May 16, 2003, at 17:15:53
> > My pdoc told me to figure out what med was causing it and to reduce it to get the number below 90. I dropped the Effexor down a lot, and my BP followed.
>
> it's a good thing you mentioned this... mine is just as high... i'll have a talk with my doc about it soon.. i almost never caught itThere was someone that posted a link to an AD chart previously and it mentions BP increasing with dosage on Effexor. The monograph mentions it too. My GP brushed it off (the high number 148), but the low number (93), my pdoc thought was too high and my pharmacist also agreed.
>
> > The latest thing I heard was Depakote or Lithium + Wellbutrin. The trouble is that WB caused me to hyperfocus really bad and made things worse (at higher doses anyhow). The best response I've had strictly for attentiveness was desipramine or Adderall thus far. I think Straterra would work, but I think it is overpriced and overhyped.
>
> hmm.... really wellburtin is that powerful?
Wellbutrin is considered the med of choice for folks that have ADHD and bipolar combined, because WB is considered to be least likely to set off manic symptoms of the antidepressants available. The trouble is... when WB doesn't really work that well for ADHD symptoms. When I'm taking WB I find that the sense of time passing slows down incredibly (even at tiny doses-37.5mg, ie.), and I tend to stay on one task, but it is very sleep disruptive for me, and getting quality sleep seems to be directly correlated to my next day cognitive abilities. So it helps one thing and then it hurts another. But for BP depression with Effexor at low-doses it works rather well to keep me from being a total hypersomnic dishrag.
>
> > I'm still convinced I don't have ADHD. The trouble is making it through recurrent seasonal bipolar depressions and have the ADD-"like" symptoms under control. My ADD isn't as bad as yours because I don't think I have ADD :) Whenever I'm in the depths of a depressive episode I'm sure it may be as bad.....
>
> hmmmm... i wonder how many cases are as complicated as ours
>
Well, I saw a poster below replying to your question about "severe" ADD symptoms and when I read that I thought yet once again: "Dang-those are precisely my symptoms". The trouble is that it changes with the seasons. I don't think it should be doing that if I had ADHD, unless my manic hyper-productiveness is *masking* the ADHD symptoms. Who the hell knows.
Posted by fayeroe on May 17, 2003, at 22:48:51
In reply to Re: Blood pressure, etc. » cybercafe, posted by Ritch on May 16, 2003, at 22:13:42
Effexor raised my BP also. I lowered dosage and BP is now 117/73. Neurologist alerted me to it. Fayeroe
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