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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 11 of 11. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Caleb462 on April 28, 2003, at 1:35:14
GABA. I didn't know that you could buy actual GABA as a supplement til a few weeks ago.
So... my question is, does it work?
If so, at what dose?
Must you take it with food or on an empty stomach?
Also, how does it compare with pharmaceutical anxiotylics like the benzos?
I'm fairly skeptical about it right now. There's probably some physiological reason that GABA supplemtation doesn't work, or maybe I'm just being pessimistic.
Any experiences or comments are VERY welcome. Thanks!!!!!!!!!
Oh yeah, and Larry - I was wondering if you've had any experience with "alternative" anxiotylics like valerian, kava, and particularly l-theanine. I've heard that most valerian and kava preparations don't work since they contain very little of the active chemicals needed. Are there any good brands? Anybody else know?The word on L-theanine seems to be pretty good though, do you have any experience Larry... or anyone else for that matter?
Posted by Ame Sans Vie on April 28, 2003, at 7:44:10
In reply to GABA supplemtation, also a question for Larry, posted by Caleb462 on April 28, 2003, at 1:35:14
From my understanding, only very tiny amounts of GABA from the capsules actually cross the blood/brain barrier. I've tried this before, and found the supplement to be a total bust. If you want to supplement GABA, use picamilon. It is essentially GABA bonded to niacin at a molecular level--the niacin allows the GABA to cross the B/B barrier, and thus the "drug" can reach the place it's supposed to. I take it every day and wouldn't do without it. Most people feel effects from the very first dose.
Posted by Larry Hoover on April 28, 2003, at 10:10:38
In reply to GABA supplemtation, also a question for Larry, posted by Caleb462 on April 28, 2003, at 1:35:14
> GABA. I didn't know that you could buy actual GABA as a supplement til a few weeks ago.
>
> So... my question is, does it work?
>
> If so, at what dose?
>
> Must you take it with food or on an empty stomach?
>
> Also, how does it compare with pharmaceutical anxiotylics like the benzos?Oral GABA cannot enter the brain except by passive diffusion, which is another way of saying it's blocked by the blood-brain barrier except for trivial leaks. Whether or not GABA has peripheral effects (the rest of the body) is kind of an open question. There are GABA receptors elsewhere, but oral GABA is not often linked to any obvious effects.
> I'm fairly skeptical about it right now. There's probably some physiological reason that GABA supplemtation doesn't work, or maybe I'm just being pessimistic.
The reason GHB and GBL have sustained popularity is that they do cross the blood-brain barrier, and your brain can form GABA from either one. Both substances do other things, as well.
> Any experiences or comments are VERY welcome. Thanks!!!!!!!!!
>
>
> Oh yeah, and Larry - I was wondering if you've had any experience with "alternative" anxiotylics like valerian, kava, and particularly l-theanine. I've heard that most valerian and kava preparations don't work since they contain very little of the active chemicals needed. Are there any good brands? Anybody else know?
>
> The word on L-theanine seems to be pretty good though, do you have any experience Larry... or anyone else for that matter?I have never used l-theanine, and I didn't much like kava. To each his own. Valerian actually stimulated me.
There are some possible toxic reactions to kava if used long-term or in high acute doses. For most people it is well tolerated, and is an effective anxiolytic.
Lar
Posted by Caleb462 on April 28, 2003, at 17:15:49
In reply to Re: GABA supplemtation, also a question for Larry, posted by Ame Sans Vie on April 28, 2003, at 7:44:10
> From my understanding, only very tiny amounts of GABA from the capsules actually cross the blood/brain barrier. I've tried this before, and found the supplement to be a total bust. If you want to supplement GABA, use picamilon. It is essentially GABA bonded to niacin at a molecular level--the niacin allows the GABA to cross the B/B barrier, and thus the "drug" can reach the place it's supposed to. I take it every day and wouldn't do without it. Most people feel effects from the very first dose.
Is picamilon a common supplement, I mean... is it readily available? Or will I need to look online for it? Thanks.
Posted by Michael Bell on April 28, 2003, at 18:22:49
In reply to GABA supplemtation, also a question for Larry, posted by Caleb462 on April 28, 2003, at 1:35:14
> Try Picamilon. I've used it for months, now. It has completely rid me of the physiological symptoms of social anxiety.
GABA. I didn't know that you could buy actual GABA as a supplement til a few weeks ago.
>
> So... my question is, does it work?
>
> If so, at what dose?
>
> Must you take it with food or on an empty stomach?
>
> Also, how does it compare with pharmaceutical anxiotylics like the benzos?
>
> I'm fairly skeptical about it right now. There's probably some physiological reason that GABA supplemtation doesn't work, or maybe I'm just being pessimistic.
>
> Any experiences or comments are VERY welcome. Thanks!!!!!!!!!
>
>
> Oh yeah, and Larry - I was wondering if you've had any experience with "alternative" anxiotylics like valerian, kava, and particularly l-theanine. I've heard that most valerian and kava preparations don't work since they contain very little of the active chemicals needed. Are there any good brands? Anybody else know?
>
> The word on L-theanine seems to be pretty good though, do you have any experience Larry... or anyone else for that matter?
Posted by Michael Bell on April 28, 2003, at 18:25:04
In reply to Re: GABA supplemtation, also a question for Larry, posted by Ame Sans Vie on April 28, 2003, at 7:44:10
> From my understanding, only very tiny amounts of GABA from the capsules actually cross the blood/brain barrier. I've tried this before, and found the supplement to be a total bust. If you want to supplement GABA, use picamilon. It is essentially GABA bonded to niacin at a molecular level--the niacin allows the GABA to cross the B/B barrier, and thus the "drug" can reach the place it's supposed to. I take it every day and wouldn't do without it. Most people feel effects from the very first dose.
Ame, it's great to see someone else benefitting from this drug. I use it for social phobia, and it works great. What do you use it for? What are its positive effects for you? Negative?
Posted by Viridis on April 28, 2003, at 23:20:52
In reply to Re: GABA supplemtation, also a question for Larry, posted by Caleb462 on April 28, 2003, at 17:15:49
I've tried Picamilon, and it does seem to have a mild relaxing effect -- nothing dramatic, but worth a try. I posted a link for a source in the U.S. here a while back, but was told this was inappropriate (I'm not sure why, since it seems to be easily available and I can't find any evidence that it's controlled; Dr. Bob seemed unclear on its status so was being cautious). Just do a search and you'll quickly find it.
I like L-theanine -- for me, it has a mild relaxing/focusing effect, and it's used extensively in Japan for this purpose as a supplement. Some of the best prices are at www.iherb.com. It's definitely not controlled (it's abundant in tea), and a recent report even suggests that it boosts the immune system, although that seems fairly preliminary.
Neither of these supplements will replace prescription meds for me, but they are promising adjuncts (try fish oil too).
Posted by Michael Bell on April 29, 2003, at 0:06:22
In reply to Re: GABA supplemtation, also a question for Larry » Caleb462, posted by Viridis on April 28, 2003, at 23:20:52
> I've tried Picamilon, and it does seem to have a mild relaxing effect -- nothing dramatic, but worth a try. I posted a link for a source in the U.S. here a while back, but was told this was inappropriate (I'm not sure why, since it seems to be easily available and I can't find any evidence that it's controlled; Dr. Bob seemed unclear on its status so was being cautious). Just do a search and you'll quickly find it.
>
> I like L-theanine -- for me, it has a mild relaxing/focusing effect, and it's used extensively in Japan for this purpose as a supplement. Some of the best prices are at www.iherb.com. It's definitely not controlled (it's abundant in tea), and a recent report even suggests that it boosts the immune system, although that seems fairly preliminary.
>
> Neither of these supplements will replace prescription meds for me, but they are promising adjuncts (try fish oil too).
Viridis -
out of curiousity, what was the condition you were using Picamilon to treat? ALso, how long did you try it for, and at what dosage? THanks!
Posted by Viridis on April 29, 2003, at 1:30:34
In reply to Re: GABA supplemtation, also a question for Larry, posted by Michael Bell on April 29, 2003, at 0:06:22
I tried Picamilon to help with relaxation, and have been using 200-300 mg every day or two for the last week or so. I've been diagnosed with ADD, panic disorder, and major depression, and am doing pretty well on my prescription meds. However, I have a lot going on and sometimes have trouble unwinding and focusing.
I do have Xanax for this (which helps a lot, and I have plenty), but I try to avoid taking it too often, although I do take Klonopin regularly. So, I experiment with various supplements to see if they help take the edge off. I can always go up on the benzos, but would rather stay fairly low on these and try other options if possible.
I have a pretty good med combo (Klonopin, Adderall and Neurontin, plus occasional Xanax) and no longer experience any real crises, but still need to chill out a bit more sometimes. I started cautiously with Picamilon, and it doesn't seem to interact with any of my other meds. Picamilon seems mildly helpful, so I can see how it could work well for others.
Posted by jemma on April 29, 2003, at 11:38:42
In reply to Re: GABA supplemtation, also a question for Larry » Caleb462, posted by Viridis on April 28, 2003, at 23:20:52
I use l-theanine for its mild calming, focusing effect - as far as I know it's the only herb or drug that increases both gaba and dopamine at the same time. Did you know it actually increases high-alpha waves on an eeg? It also both potentiates caffeine (dopamine) and counteracts its excitatory properties (gaba), which is why you can drink green tea and it won't keep you awake, despite the caffeine.
I knew green tea was good for the immune system, but I attributed it to all those antioxidants and polyphenols. I didn't realize that l-theanine in isolation boosts immunity. One more reason to take it.
- jemma
Posted by Viridis on April 29, 2003, at 23:36:31
In reply to Re: GABA supplemtation, also a question for Larry » Viridis, posted by jemma on April 29, 2003, at 11:38:42
Hi Jemma,
I was surprised too that L-theanine by itself may have an effect on the immune system. It's pretty clear that the flavonoids etc. in tea are excellent antioxidants (many nutritionists now consider a cup of tea equivalent to a serving of vegetables), but I wouldn't have expected this amino acid alone to be anything special.
I don't have the link handy, but there was an interesting story on the MSNBC site a week or so ago (I think it's still there in their Health section). When I posted a link, someone quickly commented that they're skeptical of media hype. I agree, but the results that were reported sounded pretty dramatic. Of course it was a small study, and these things sometimes don't pan out, but I'll be interested to see the followups.
In any case, I like the effects of tea (green, black, and in-between), and L-theanine on its own.
This is the end of the thread.
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