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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 10 of 10. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by denise528 on April 24, 2003, at 10:29:19
Hi,
I was reading the following on the neurocrine site.
NBI-34041 for Anxiety and Depression: Completed Phase I single dose and multiple dosestudies with the CRF1 receptor antagonist. Tolerability and pharmacokinetic properties were
demonstrated. Further Phase I studies are planned for 2002 and Phase II clinical trials in
patients with anxiety and depression are expected to start late 2002 or early 2003.Does anyone know anything about how these trials are going or how a person could go about getting onto one of these trials?
Denise
Posted by Pfinstegg on April 24, 2003, at 19:47:22
In reply to Anyone know about the CRF antagonist trials, posted by denise528 on April 24, 2003, at 10:29:19
Hi..I read the same thing that you did about the Phase 1 trial of a CRF-1 antagonist in healthy subjects. At that phase, they were just testing for safety, tolerability and proper dosage levels, and, as you say, they found it to be safe and well-tolerated. There are animal studies which have been done at Emory, the University of Chicago and the University of Wisconsin which show that several antagonists- CRF-1a and 1b, and CRF-2 all have positive effects in preventing abnormal stress responses originating in the hypothalamus. Each of the different CRF antagonists does something slightly different in the brain; it is CRF-1a which most researchers are focussing on.
Phase 2 trials are going on now. Neuroscientists at places like Yale, Emory and the Max Planck Institute in Germany are excited about them, as they will prevent the glucocorticoid abnormalities in depression from ever starting at all, rather than trying to rectify them "downstream" - in the hippocampus and other brain regions, as all the AD's that currently exist do. From what they know now, these drugs work quickly, have fewer side effects than present AD's, and are neuroprotective. Of course, it remains to be seen whether they will really do what everyone hopes!
The CRF antagonists were developed at the Salk Institute; Neurocrine was the first drug company to begin investigating them clinically. After the successful Phase 1 trials, they formed a partnership with Jannsen Pharmaceuticals and then with SmithGlaxcoWellcome to conduct the Phase 2 trials. I couldn't find out where these are being conducted, however, Neurocrine, which describes itself as "committed to remaining the world leader in the CRF field" has a patient information number:858-658-7600. I hope it's useful!
Pfinstegg
Posted by denise528 on April 25, 2003, at 13:23:08
In reply to Re: Anyone know about the CRF antagonist trials » denise528, posted by Pfinstegg on April 24, 2003, at 19:47:22
Hi,
I've already tried ringing Neurocrine and they couldn't help me out, anyway thanks for the number I'll keep trying it.
Denise
Posted by Pfinstegg on April 25, 2003, at 17:41:36
In reply to Re: Anyone know about the CRF antagonist trials, posted by denise528 on April 25, 2003, at 13:23:08
Well, that's frustrating! You could try Dr. Charles Nemeroff's number at Emory University: 404 727-5150. He is the head of the Dept. of Psychiatry there, and participated in one of the original animal trials of various CRF antagonists. They have a web site under construction for patient trials, but it isn't up and running as yet. However, if you are persistent, I bet you could find out from someone at Emory where the Phase 2 trials are being done. Even if they aren't doing any at Emory, one of the research psychiatrists should know. Good luck if you try!
Pfinstegg
Posted by denise528 on April 26, 2003, at 5:11:51
In reply to Re: Anyone know about the CRF antagonist trials » denise528, posted by Pfinstegg on April 25, 2003, at 17:41:36
Pfinstegg,
Thanks for being so helpful, I will try him, trouble is I'm based in the UK so I doubt there are any trials over here. But I suppose I could always travel over to the States depending on how long the trials are, or am I living in Cloud Cuckoo land?
Do you think this treatment sounds promising? Would it only work for those who have failed the dexamone suppression test do you think? and are they doing the trials on people with resistant depression or just depression?
I'm suprised you haven't made enquiries into participating in a trial but if I remember rightly you are in remission now aren't you, thanks to rTMS.
Do you really think the rTMS helped, could it have been placebo do you think, I know that you've said that that fish oil helped you and I'm very sceptical about fish oil helping as I tried it myself and it did nothing. How did you know the rTMS was working,what were the signs? Also you said before that you failed to respond to most ADs, which ones did you respond to?
I don't feel depressed today because I took a Zyprexa about two days ago and it nearly always helps me for about a week and then I start going down but I still can't help worrying that one day the Zyprexa will stop working and then I'll have nothing which is why I'm searching for other treatments it would be nice to think that I have other options if the Zyprexa ever does stop helping.
Denise
Posted by Pfinstegg on April 26, 2003, at 11:19:32
In reply to Re: Anyone know about the CRF antagonist trials, posted by denise528 on April 26, 2003, at 5:11:51
Hi Denise.. I forgot you were in the UK! I'm sorry to say that I don't have any further information about the CRF receptor antagonist trials; I am just trying to keep an eye on them for the future, as it sounds like such an intelligent approach.
I guess it's impossible to say whether the TMS acted as a placebo or not! But I do feel fine; I am supposed to monitor myself with the Beck Depression Rating Scale. Before the TMS, I was steadily in the "severe" range for months at least (actually years, although I wasn't rating it); since having it, I am usually in the normal range, and sometimes in the "slightly depressed" range. I'm doing a bunch of other things.too. In addition to the fish oil and vitamins, I take both Synthroid and Cytomel; I have been slightly hypothyroid since the depression began 10 years ago, but found adding Cytomel to the synthroid was a big help. I also take tianeptine, which I get from the UK, for its neuroprotective effects. In addition to all of that, I went back into psychotherapy to try to deal better with the neglect and abuse which I suffered as a child.I have found an excellent therapist, and am very grateful for that. So it's hard to say just what is helping- hopefully, they all are!
It's good that Zyprexa helps; that was the one that helped me the most, also. However, I gained a lot of weight on it, and developed insulin resistance and abnormal blood lipid readings, so I had to stop it to avoid developing some serious physical problems.
Take care.. I hope to hear that you are doing well also.
Pfinstegg
Posted by denise528 on April 26, 2003, at 14:34:52
In reply to Re: Anyone know about the CRF antagonist trials » denise528, posted by Pfinstegg on April 26, 2003, at 11:19:32
Hi Pfinstegg,
You seem to be a wealth of knowledge just read one of your other threads.
I'm a bit worried now, I'd really hate to have to come off Zyprexa, I honestly don't know what I'd do without it, it's the ONLY drug that helps. Can I ask you if the insulin resistance and abnormal blood lipids was caused by the weight gain which is caused by Zyprexa or just by the Zyprexa itself? I mean could I suffer the same problems even if I didn't have any weight gain. Fortunately I haven't put on any weight probably because I smoke so much.
Also, you say that you feel fine now after having rTMS, do you feel as good as you did when you took Zyprexa?
In what ways would you say you felt better after having rTMS, were there any noticable signs?
Denise
Posted by Pfinstegg on April 26, 2003, at 15:22:19
In reply to Re: pfinstegg just a few more questions promise, posted by denise528 on April 26, 2003, at 14:34:52
You've asked a great question; people who just gain weight, on their own, without any drugs, tend to get insulin resistance and alterations in their lipid profiles. This may be the reason it happens with Zyprexa; if you are able to take it and not gain weight, you may well never have any of those unwelcome changes, although I don't think anyone actually knows if the side effects are weight-related or drug-related. You say that you can take it less than every day; that may be the safest way to do it, if it helps enough. I think it's good to be checked for insulin resistance, and to have your blood lipids checked once a year if you are taking Zyprexa regularly, as these changes do occur with a considerable percentage of patients, even if you are young- a time when you normally would not expect those things to happen.
Even though Zyprexa helped a lot, I always did have a "drugged" feeling a bit. I feel wonderful now after the TMS, which has no such side effects. Also, I feel I got into a complete remission with TMS, whereas it was a bit up and down with Zyprexa.
I always welcome questions, and love the dialogue here on PB; of course, there are so many things I don't know the answer to!
Pfinstegg
Posted by denise528 on April 28, 2003, at 14:58:05
In reply to Re: pfinstegg just a few more questions promise » denise528, posted by Pfinstegg on April 26, 2003, at 15:22:19
Pfinstegg,
Sorry, but I have just one more question. When you went to see if you were eligible for TMS did they ask you if you had ever had a seisure, did they tell you that if you had you wouldn't be a suitable candidate?
The reason I asked is that I rang about getting on a TMS trial in London but they said that because I had had one seizure when I was on high doses of medication that they couldn't include me.
I have never ever suffered from seizures apart from one day after I had taken 300mg Prothiaden, 10mg Zyprexa and 200mg of Zooloft, I knew that there was something wrong before the seizure because my speech was really slurred. I don't think that this makes me prone to seizures, I think that you can make anyone have a seizure if you give them high enough doses of medication so it really seems a shame that I've missed out because of that one event.
I know they think because I had that one there is a chance that I could have it with TMS but I thought they were using TMS in some cases for epilepsy?
Denise
Posted by Pfinstegg on April 28, 2003, at 16:39:33
In reply to Re: pfinstegg I said I wouldn't but just one more, posted by denise528 on April 28, 2003, at 14:58:05
Hi Denise.. I'm always happy to answer if I can help! I think all the people giving TMS want to know if you have a seizure DISORDER; having one seizure while taking so much medication would probably not disqualify you in the eyes of Dr. Hutto, for example. (the doctor who administered TMS to me). I have no seizure history; but, when he was determining the amount of electromagnetic current to give me, he said it was going to be the maximum amount, and that I could possibly have a seizure, but said that that did not worry him, as they were prepared to keep me safe if I did have one. (I didn't). Someone like Dr Hutto, who has given ECT for 20 years, and added TMS 2 years ago, is so experienced that a seizure is not a big deal at all. It sounds as though the doctors you consulted are more worried, although they probably don't need to be.
Did they really turn you down because of that one incident? If so, I'm very sorry to hear it. I do think TMS is so well worth trying if you can't get into remission with medication. There are really no side effects- in particular, one's short-term memory remains perfect.
Do let me know what happens.
Pfinstegg
This is the end of the thread.
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